I don't get the hate for Viv. She's judgmental, sure, but so is pretty much everybody in this game.
Is it just because she's more passive aggressive than directly rude?
My main beef with Viv is how incredibly shallow and manipulative she is. Like, she joins the Inquisition to gain clout for a shot at being divine, if it couldn't do that for her she wouldn't be there. A lot of her rep gains when you first meet her relate to how well she thinks you can help her get the fancy hat. And if you don't meet her standards, she basically acts like a childish brat for the rest of the game. There's also the whole arguing from privilege thing she does, that's never fun.
It's been a while since I had those conversations, but as I recall, Vivienne actually pushes for Cassandra to be Divine, and only pursues the position herself if you suggest it to her. You actually have to talk her into it, because she initially refuses to believe that the Chantry would ever accept a mage as Divine.
Also, it's hard for me to see her as "privileged" when she is both a mage and an orphan in a society that is strongly disadvantageous to either of those things.
She's a total bitch who is arrogant, rude and incredibly dismissive of other people's circumstances.
Every action she takes seems to be about how it personally enriches her and she's shameless in admitting that fact as well.
She also happens to be right about a lot of important stuff and she's also honest as well. Despite her power lust she also has a firm view about how things should run and it's based on reasonable ideas.
Personally I like the character but yeah there's plenty to hate if you value decorum and common decency.
I don't get the hate for Viv. She's judgmental, sure, but so is pretty much everybody in this game.
Is it just because she's more passive aggressive than directly rude?
My main beef with Viv is how incredibly shallow and manipulative she is. Like, she joins the Inquisition to gain clout for a shot at being divine, if it couldn't do that for her she wouldn't be there. A lot of her rep gains when you first meet her relate to how well she thinks you can help her get the fancy hat. And if you don't meet her standards, she basically acts like a childish brat for the rest of the game. There's also the whole arguing from privilege thing she does, that's never fun.
It's been a while since I had those conversations, but as I recall, Vivienne actually pushes for Cassandra to be Divine, and only pursues the position herself if you suggest it to her. You actually have to talk her into it, because she initially refuses to believe that the Chantry would ever accept a mage as Divine.
Also, it's hard for me to see her as "privileged" when she is both a mage and an orphan in a society that is strongly disadvantageous to either of those things.
Dude, you got mad played. She subtly hints at herself pretty much any time the divine is mentioned. She only brings up Cass if you aske her directly, because of course she would. Also, she is the mistress of one of the most important political figures in Orlais and makes full use of the advantages that brings, she is mad privileged.
I don't get the hate for Viv. She's judgmental, sure, but so is pretty much everybody in this game.
Is it just because she's more passive aggressive than directly rude?
My main beef with Viv is how incredibly shallow and manipulative she is. Like, she joins the Inquisition to gain clout for a shot at being divine, if it couldn't do that for her she wouldn't be there. A lot of her rep gains when you first meet her relate to how well she thinks you can help her get the fancy hat. And if you don't meet her standards, she basically acts like a childish brat for the rest of the game. There's also the whole arguing from privilege thing she does, that's never fun.
It's been a while since I had those conversations, but as I recall, Vivienne actually pushes for Cassandra to be Divine, and only pursues the position herself if you suggest it to her. You actually have to talk her into it, because she initially refuses to believe that the Chantry would ever accept a mage as Divine.
Also, it's hard for me to see her as "privileged" when she is both a mage and an orphan in a society that is strongly disadvantageous to either of those things.
Dude, you got mad played. She subtly hints at herself pretty much any time the divine is mentioned. She only brings up Cass if you aske her directly, because of course she would. Also, she is the mistress of one of the most important political figures in Orlais and makes full use of the advantages that brings, she is mad privileged.
I have trouble using this against her since in her loyalty quest it seemed like she ligitimately did love him.
It's also worth noting that she has far more freedom than any other circle mage. Or maybe it's her entire circle that's really privileged. I forget. Either way, she's pretty much free to do whatever she likes.
I don't get the hate for Viv. She's judgmental, sure, but so is pretty much everybody in this game.
Is it just because she's more passive aggressive than directly rude?
My main beef with Viv is how incredibly shallow and manipulative she is. Like, she joins the Inquisition to gain clout for a shot at being divine, if it couldn't do that for her she wouldn't be there. A lot of her rep gains when you first meet her relate to how well she thinks you can help her get the fancy hat. And if you don't meet her standards, she basically acts like a childish brat for the rest of the game. There's also the whole arguing from privilege thing she does, that's never fun.
It's been a while since I had those conversations, but as I recall, Vivienne actually pushes for Cassandra to be Divine, and only pursues the position herself if you suggest it to her. You actually have to talk her into it, because she initially refuses to believe that the Chantry would ever accept a mage as Divine.
Also, it's hard for me to see her as "privileged" when she is both a mage and an orphan in a society that is strongly disadvantageous to either of those things.
Dude, you got mad played. She subtly hints at herself pretty much any time the divine is mentioned. She only brings up Cass if you aske her directly, because of course she would. Also, she is the mistress of one of the most important political figures in Orlais and makes full use of the advantages that brings, she is mad privileged.
I have trouble using this against her since in her loyalty quest it seemed like she ligitimately did love him.
Maybe, but do you think she'd have given him the time of day if he wasn't who he was? I think heart and mind just happened to conveniently align in that instance.
I don't get the hate for Viv. She's judgmental, sure, but so is pretty much everybody in this game.
Is it just because she's more passive aggressive than directly rude?
My main beef with Viv is how incredibly shallow and manipulative she is. Like, she joins the Inquisition to gain clout for a shot at being divine, if it couldn't do that for her she wouldn't be there. A lot of her rep gains when you first meet her relate to how well she thinks you can help her get the fancy hat. And if you don't meet her standards, she basically acts like a childish brat for the rest of the game. There's also the whole arguing from privilege thing she does, that's never fun.
It's been a while since I had those conversations, but as I recall, Vivienne actually pushes for Cassandra to be Divine, and only pursues the position herself if you suggest it to her. You actually have to talk her into it, because she initially refuses to believe that the Chantry would ever accept a mage as Divine.
Also, it's hard for me to see her as "privileged" when she is both a mage and an orphan in a society that is strongly disadvantageous to either of those things.
She's a total bitch who is arrogant, rude and incredibly dismissive of other people's circumstances.
Every action she takes seems to be about how it personally enriches her and she's shameless in admitting that fact as well.
She also happens to be right about a lot of important stuff and she's also honest as well. Despite her power lust she also has a firm view about how things should run and it's based on reasonable ideas.
Personally I like the character but yeah there's plenty to hate if you value decorum and common decency.
It's also worth noting that she has far more freedom than any other circle mage. Or maybe it's her entire circle that's really privileged. I forget. Either way, she's pretty much free to do whatever she likes.
While that's true, it wasn't always that way for her. She had to earn it.
It's also worth noting that she has far more freedom than any other circle mage. Or maybe it's her entire circle that's really privileged. I forget. Either way, she's pretty much free to do whatever she likes.
It's been a long time since I read it, but I thought they did an exterminatus on the whole Orlais circle in the 2nd one? That kicked the whole mage vs templar thing off?
It's also worth noting that she has far more freedom than any other circle mage. Or maybe it's her entire circle that's really privileged. I forget. Either way, she's pretty much free to do whatever she likes.
It's been a long time since I read it, but I thought they did an exterminatus on the whole Orlais circle in the 2nd one? That kicked the whole mage vs templar thing off?
That was Kirkwall, very far from Orlais. Like, in a different country.
It's also worth noting that she has far more freedom than any other circle mage. Or maybe it's her entire circle that's really privileged. I forget. Either way, she's pretty much free to do whatever she likes.
It's been a long time since I read it, but I thought they did an exterminatus on the whole Orlais circle in the 2nd one? That kicked the whole mage vs templar thing off?
That was Kirkwall, very far from Orlais. Like, in a different country.
No, not in DA2, in the book that had cole and his mage friend. Kirkwall was already burned down by then
It's also worth noting that she has far more freedom than any other circle mage. Or maybe it's her entire circle that's really privileged. I forget. Either way, she's pretty much free to do whatever she likes.
It's been a long time since I read it, but I thought they did an exterminatus on the whole Orlais circle in the 2nd one? That kicked the whole mage vs templar thing off?
That was Kirkwall, very far from Orlais. Like, in a different country.
No, not in DA2, in the book that had cole and his mage friend. Kirkwall was already burned down by then
Oh, that. If I recall correctly there was a murder or two and then a vote. There may have also been some drama with the right of annulment almost being invoked, but it wasn't.
It's also worth noting that she has far more freedom than any other circle mage. Or maybe it's her entire circle that's really privileged. I forget. Either way, she's pretty much free to do whatever she likes.
It's been a long time since I read it, but I thought they did an exterminatus on the whole Orlais circle in the 2nd one? That kicked the whole mage vs templar thing off?
That was Kirkwall, very far from Orlais. Like, in a different country.
No, not in DA2, in the book that had cole and his mage friend. Kirkwall was already burned down by then
Oh, that. If I recall correctly there was a murder or two and then a vote. There may have also been some drama with the right of annulment almost being invoked, but it wasn't.
I thought the exterminatus happened after the vote. I distinctly remember some sort of fleeing in the night
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Andy JoeWe claim the land for the highlord!The AdirondacksRegistered Userregular
I don't get the hate for Viv. She's judgmental, sure, but so is pretty much everybody in this game.
Is it just because she's more passive aggressive than directly rude?
My main beef with Viv is how incredibly shallow and manipulative she is. Like, she joins the Inquisition to gain clout for a shot at being divine, if it couldn't do that for her she wouldn't be there. A lot of her rep gains when you first meet her relate to how well she thinks you can help her get the fancy hat. And if you don't meet her standards, she basically acts like a childish brat for the rest of the game. There's also the whole arguing from privilege thing she does, that's never fun.
It's been a while since I had those conversations, but as I recall, Vivienne actually pushes for Cassandra to be Divine, and only pursues the position herself if you suggest it to her. You actually have to talk her into it, because she initially refuses to believe that the Chantry would ever accept a mage as Divine.
Also, it's hard for me to see her as "privileged" when she is both a mage and an orphan in a society that is strongly disadvantageous to either of those things.
The interesting thing about Vivienne is that she has the most conservative ideas of all the Divine candidates, but the act of appointing her to that position is by far the most radical option.
I don't get the hate for Viv. She's judgmental, sure, but so is pretty much everybody in this game.
Is it just because she's more passive aggressive than directly rude?
My main beef with Viv is how incredibly shallow and manipulative she is. Like, she joins the Inquisition to gain clout for a shot at being divine, if it couldn't do that for her she wouldn't be there. A lot of her rep gains when you first meet her relate to how well she thinks you can help her get the fancy hat. And if you don't meet her standards, she basically acts like a childish brat for the rest of the game. There's also the whole arguing from privilege thing she does, that's never fun.
It's been a while since I had those conversations, but as I recall, Vivienne actually pushes for Cassandra to be Divine, and only pursues the position herself if you suggest it to her. You actually have to talk her into it, because she initially refuses to believe that the Chantry would ever accept a mage as Divine.
Also, it's hard for me to see her as "privileged" when she is both a mage and an orphan in a society that is strongly disadvantageous to either of those things.
The interesting thing about Vivienne is that she has the most conservative ideas of all the Divine candidates, but the act of appointing her to that position is by far the most radical option.
Vivienne is just so condescending to everyone. Solas is vehemently opposed to the Qun, but you understand his perspective even if you disagree. Sera snipes about nobles but you understand her point of view. Vivienne has very good points to make about the danger of magic, but she's so smug and so okay with OTHER mages being oppressed as long as she gets hers... she's basically a class traitor, as far as I'm concerned.
Her point of view is that she doesn't see it as oppression, though. She sees it as for the mages' own protection, but also wants to make sure that the abuses of the system as it had existed are dealt with.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I don't get the hate for Viv. She's judgmental, sure, but so is pretty much everybody in this game.
Is it just because she's more passive aggressive than directly rude?
My main beef with Viv is how incredibly shallow and manipulative she is. Like, she joins the Inquisition to gain clout for a shot at being divine, if it couldn't do that for her she wouldn't be there. A lot of her rep gains when you first meet her relate to how well she thinks you can help her get the fancy hat. And if you don't meet her standards, she basically acts like a childish brat for the rest of the game. There's also the whole arguing from privilege thing she does, that's never fun.
It's been a while since I had those conversations, but as I recall, Vivienne actually pushes for Cassandra to be Divine, and only pursues the position herself if you suggest it to her. You actually have to talk her into it, because she initially refuses to believe that the Chantry would ever accept a mage as Divine.
Also, it's hard for me to see her as "privileged" when she is both a mage and an orphan in a society that is strongly disadvantageous to either of those things.
The interesting thing about Vivienne is that she has the most conservative ideas of all the Divine candidates, but the act of appointing her to that position is by far the most radical option.
Uh, no. Leliana is absolutely more radical, because she ends the circles. Vivienne is the most conservative, because she keeps policy as status quo of any of the options.
I don't get the hate for Viv. She's judgmental, sure, but so is pretty much everybody in this game.
Is it just because she's more passive aggressive than directly rude?
My main beef with Viv is how incredibly shallow and manipulative she is. Like, she joins the Inquisition to gain clout for a shot at being divine, if it couldn't do that for her she wouldn't be there. A lot of her rep gains when you first meet her relate to how well she thinks you can help her get the fancy hat. And if you don't meet her standards, she basically acts like a childish brat for the rest of the game. There's also the whole arguing from privilege thing she does, that's never fun.
It's been a while since I had those conversations, but as I recall, Vivienne actually pushes for Cassandra to be Divine, and only pursues the position herself if you suggest it to her. You actually have to talk her into it, because she initially refuses to believe that the Chantry would ever accept a mage as Divine.
Also, it's hard for me to see her as "privileged" when she is both a mage and an orphan in a society that is strongly disadvantageous to either of those things.
The interesting thing about Vivienne is that she has the most conservative ideas of all the Divine candidates, but the act of appointing her to that position is by far the most radical option.
Uh, no. Leliana is absolutely more radical, because she ends the circles. Vivienne is the most conservative, because she keeps policy as status quo of any of the options.
AFTER the fact Leliana turns out to be more radical. She doesn't campaign for the position by saying she'll end the circles. She doesn't even say that to the Inquisitor when they chat about it. Her ideas at that point - sending out teams of mages and templars to work together where they're needed, for example - are definitely advocating for change, but not a complete overturn.
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Andy JoeWe claim the land for the highlord!The AdirondacksRegistered Userregular
I don't get the hate for Viv. She's judgmental, sure, but so is pretty much everybody in this game.
Is it just because she's more passive aggressive than directly rude?
My main beef with Viv is how incredibly shallow and manipulative she is. Like, she joins the Inquisition to gain clout for a shot at being divine, if it couldn't do that for her she wouldn't be there. A lot of her rep gains when you first meet her relate to how well she thinks you can help her get the fancy hat. And if you don't meet her standards, she basically acts like a childish brat for the rest of the game. There's also the whole arguing from privilege thing she does, that's never fun.
It's been a while since I had those conversations, but as I recall, Vivienne actually pushes for Cassandra to be Divine, and only pursues the position herself if you suggest it to her. You actually have to talk her into it, because she initially refuses to believe that the Chantry would ever accept a mage as Divine.
Also, it's hard for me to see her as "privileged" when she is both a mage and an orphan in a society that is strongly disadvantageous to either of those things.
The interesting thing about Vivienne is that she has the most conservative ideas of all the Divine candidates, but the act of appointing her to that position is by far the most radical option.
Uh, no. Leliana is absolutely more radical, because she ends the circles. Vivienne is the most conservative, because she keeps policy as status quo of any of the options.
She's a frickin' mage! It starts a civil war immediately!
I don't get the hate for Viv. She's judgmental, sure, but so is pretty much everybody in this game.
Is it just because she's more passive aggressive than directly rude?
My main beef with Viv is how incredibly shallow and manipulative she is. Like, she joins the Inquisition to gain clout for a shot at being divine, if it couldn't do that for her she wouldn't be there. A lot of her rep gains when you first meet her relate to how well she thinks you can help her get the fancy hat. And if you don't meet her standards, she basically acts like a childish brat for the rest of the game. There's also the whole arguing from privilege thing she does, that's never fun.
It's been a while since I had those conversations, but as I recall, Vivienne actually pushes for Cassandra to be Divine, and only pursues the position herself if you suggest it to her. You actually have to talk her into it, because she initially refuses to believe that the Chantry would ever accept a mage as Divine.
Also, it's hard for me to see her as "privileged" when she is both a mage and an orphan in a society that is strongly disadvantageous to either of those things.
The interesting thing about Vivienne is that she has the most conservative ideas of all the Divine candidates, but the act of appointing her to that position is by far the most radical option.
Uh, no. Leliana is absolutely more radical, because she ends the circles. Vivienne is the most conservative, because she keeps policy as status quo of any of the options.
She's a frickin' mage! It starts a civil war immediately!
Sera snipes about nobles but you understand her point of view.
I really don't. Of all the companions in the game, Sera seems like the most selfish. She assassinates nobles because doing so makes her feel good about herself, even though the aftermath of her attacks only makes things worse for the people she's allegedly trying help.
After a while, I began to realize that her babbling manner of speech is just a defense she uses to discourage people from asking her to explain her longterm plans. She doesn't want to confront the reality that her actions are counterproductive to her goals. She wants to keep living under the delusion that she can make the world a better place just by killing mean people.
I don't disagree, but in her wrongheaded delusion she's not that different from the other companions. They're all kidding themselves, or the world, or both, about who they really are and what they're really doing. The exception is Cole, who isn't fully in one world or the other; and even he is in denial about a pretty central fact of his so-called life.
I don't disagree, but in her wrongheaded delusion she's not that different from the other companions. They're all kidding themselves, or the world, or both, about who they really are and what they're really doing. The exception is Cole, who isn't fully in one world or the other; and even he is in denial about a pretty central fact of his so-called life.
It's interesting, isn't it, that the two characters we've met before are the least deceitful/conflicted? I don't know whether that's lazy writing, or fidelity to beloved characters, or a little of both.
But you're right, I should have excluded them from my sweeping statement.
That alone goes a long way toward explaining why she's more grounded in reality than your other companions. You can lie to yourself, but you can't lie to The Maker.
That alone goes a long way toward explaining why she's more grounded in reality than your other companions. You can lie to yourself, but you can't lie to The Maker.
Ah, but there are some who would say that even believing that The Maker exists is living a lie.
It's interesting, isn't it, that the two characters we've met before are the least deceitful/conflicted? I don't know whether that's lazy writing, or fidelity to beloved characters, or a little of both.
But you're right, I should have excluded them from my sweeping statement.
Basically, every character except for them exist on some contiuum of being an awful person. I find that quite interesting.
So your party in Dragon Age: Inquisition is a collection of awful people who all hate each other.
Just like a real family.
I don't really agree. Varric, Cass and Dorian are all solidly pretty good people all around. The rest definitely have some shade in their characters but some are darker than others.
Steam and CFN: Enexemander
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
So your party in Dragon Age: Inquisition is a collection of awful people who all hate each other.
Just like a real family.
I don't really agree. Varric, Cass and Dorian are all solidly pretty good people all around. The rest definitely have some shade in their characters but some are darker than others.
Dorian equivocates on slavery. He eventually acknowledges that it's bad, but he doesn't start that way.
So your party in Dragon Age: Inquisition is a collection of awful people who all hate each other.
Just like a real family.
I don't really agree. Varric, Cass and Dorian are all solidly pretty good people all around. The rest definitely have some shade in their characters but some are darker than others.
Dorian equivocates on slavery. He eventually acknowledges that it's bad, but he doesn't start that way.
And even when he admits it's bad, it's in a halfhearted "I guess there are some downsides" kind of way.
You can take the man out of Tevinter, but you can't take Tevinter out of the man.
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Some slaves have way better lives than a lot of the poor people who we rigged the economic system against, you know. You could say that we are actually doing those slaves a favor! Where would they be without the benevolence of the magiocracy?
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TTODewbackPuts the drawl in ya'llI think I'm in HellRegistered Userregular
Greg Ellis/Jonny Rees, voice of Cullen Rutherford has been listed as a missing person with the LAPD Missing Persons Unit.
He was last seen shirtless and manic on Wednesday, May 11th. Greg suffers from Bipolar disorder which he has refused treatment for.
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She's a total bitch who is arrogant, rude and incredibly dismissive of other people's circumstances.
Every action she takes seems to be about how it personally enriches her and she's shameless in admitting that fact as well.
She also happens to be right about a lot of important stuff and she's also honest as well. Despite her power lust she also has a firm view about how things should run and it's based on reasonable ideas.
Personally I like the character but yeah there's plenty to hate if you value decorum and common decency.
Dude, you got mad played. She subtly hints at herself pretty much any time the divine is mentioned. She only brings up Cass if you aske her directly, because of course she would. Also, she is the mistress of one of the most important political figures in Orlais and makes full use of the advantages that brings, she is mad privileged.
I have trouble using this against her since in her loyalty quest it seemed like she ligitimately did love him.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
Maybe, but do you think she'd have given him the time of day if he wasn't who he was? I think heart and mind just happened to conveniently align in that instance.
Okay, that I can understand.
While that's true, it wasn't always that way for her. She had to earn it.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
It's been a long time since I read it, but I thought they did an exterminatus on the whole Orlais circle in the 2nd one? That kicked the whole mage vs templar thing off?
That was Kirkwall, very far from Orlais. Like, in a different country.
No, not in DA2, in the book that had cole and his mage friend. Kirkwall was already burned down by then
Oh, that. If I recall correctly there was a murder or two and then a vote. There may have also been some drama with the right of annulment almost being invoked, but it wasn't.
I thought the exterminatus happened after the vote. I distinctly remember some sort of fleeing in the night
The interesting thing about Vivienne is that she has the most conservative ideas of all the Divine candidates, but the act of appointing her to that position is by far the most radical option.
Only Nixon could go to China.
Uh, no. Leliana is absolutely more radical, because she ends the circles. Vivienne is the most conservative, because she keeps policy as status quo of any of the options.
AFTER the fact Leliana turns out to be more radical. She doesn't campaign for the position by saying she'll end the circles. She doesn't even say that to the Inquisitor when they chat about it. Her ideas at that point - sending out teams of mages and templars to work together where they're needed, for example - are definitely advocating for change, but not a complete overturn.
She's a frickin' mage! It starts a civil war immediately!
Okay, I understand what you mean, I think.
I really don't. Of all the companions in the game, Sera seems like the most selfish. She assassinates nobles because doing so makes her feel good about herself, even though the aftermath of her attacks only makes things worse for the people she's allegedly trying help.
After a while, I began to realize that her babbling manner of speech is just a defense she uses to discourage people from asking her to explain her longterm plans. She doesn't want to confront the reality that her actions are counterproductive to her goals. She wants to keep living under the delusion that she can make the world a better place just by killing mean people.
How does this apply to Cassandra or Varric?
But you're right, I should have excluded them from my sweeping statement.
That alone goes a long way toward explaining why she's more grounded in reality than your other companions. You can lie to yourself, but you can't lie to The Maker.
Ah, but there are some who would say that even believing that The Maker exists is living a lie.
Yeah he was an enormous downgrade compared to 2. I did love what they did with him in Trespasser, though.
Ocean, tears and heartbreak soup
Half alive in a whitecap foam
Half in love with a white half moon
Basically, every character except for them exist on some contiuum of being an awful person. I find that quite interesting.
Just like a real family.
I don't really agree. Varric, Cass and Dorian are all solidly pretty good people all around. The rest definitely have some shade in their characters but some are darker than others.
Dorian equivocates on slavery. He eventually acknowledges that it's bad, but he doesn't start that way.
And even when he admits it's bad, it's in a halfhearted "I guess there are some downsides" kind of way.
You can take the man out of Tevinter, but you can't take Tevinter out of the man.
He was last seen shirtless and manic on Wednesday, May 11th. Greg suffers from Bipolar disorder which he has refused treatment for.
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