I am super skeptical, as GW has been signing off on a lot of 40k shovelware lately
In their latest financial report or whatever, they stated with apparent pride that they don't do any market research whatsoever and that explains so much
+10
Mego Thor"I say thee...NAY!"Registered Userregular
Whenever I think of Games Workshop, I remember that World of Warcraft could have been World of Warhammer.
DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
edited July 2015
I think GW has been doing alright for fans of their games. Mordheim is coming along, Armageddon looks like a really nice high level strategy game, both of the Space Hulk games are nice, hell even Regicide looks pretty good. Sure there is stuff like Kill Team (silly fun for short bursts if you ask me) and Storm of Vengeance but then those games aren't exactly going to break the mint nor are they the dominant trend.
I mean before this we had the Relic games (aside from some old, hard to find strategy games and Fire Warrior), which are really good and stuff. But there is room for other games too, yes even stuff that plays like that moldy old boardgame. And we have Space Hulk: Deathwing on the way, Total War: Warhammer, and maybe Fatshark can even pull off Warhammer: Vermintide. Who knows. I don't think I'll hold my breath on that one though.
I think the fact that we have more games from GW of various levels of quality (yes, including a couple of shovelware titles) is a good thing. They still have probably as many AAA irons in the fire as they used to, and then they have a bunch of (surprise!) affordable stuff that aims to recreate some of that table top style. Talisman: Digital Edition for example. And yeah, as far as the 40K MMO goes, man who knows.
I think we are getting more AAA GW games from competent studios than ever before really. It's just that they've also unshackled a lot of their older, more niche IPs for more inexpensive independent development. Some of this stuff is going to be dismal, of course but we are also getting some pretty nifty things that the GW fanbase has wanted on PC for a really long time.
Yeah, that's Amberly, she has some choice words to say about "traditional" inquistors... though to be fair the Imperium needs a sledgehammer too.
The empire is a sledge hammer. Its why its so wretched, because when all you have is a hammer every problem is a nail.
Every problem IS a nail.
Let psykers go unregulated?
Demon incursion/Witches/fucked up Chaos shit
Let people stray too far away from Imperial Dogma?
See above
Try to negotiate with xenos?
Backstabs/Lies/Deaths of whole worlds because of (Dark) Eldar fuckery.
One of my favorite parts of 40k background is that when humans took to the stars, they actually did try a Star Trek style federation. They protected other xenos races and tried to coexist.
You know what happened?
The xenos they protected still tried to fuck over humans (and that's xenos gratitude for you) and didn't back them up when the belligerent xenos came.
Fuck xenos.
...though I do like the idea in What If the Emperor had a Text-to-speech device of the Emperor making himself the Greater Good to the Tau. http://youtube.com/watch?v=6-9XSiNfgk0
I love that series. Though they take the piss out of the Inquisition a lot, which, to be fair, the situations they provide are pretty worthy of scorn. Especially Karamazov. What a dick.
Except the aftermath of the Krypttmann-tyranid incident where they gelded a Imperial populations and the Emprah got mad about it. One word: "Genestealers"
Yeah, that's Amberly, she has some choice words to say about "traditional" inquistors... though to be fair the Imperium needs a sledgehammer too.
The empire is a sledge hammer. Its why its so wretched, because when all you have is a hammer every problem is a nail.
As Kado said, that paranoia is actually justified though given the setting. There's actually a lot of subtlety beyond just "the Imperium is awful." It is awful, but it was so even when the Emperor was alive.
And as a big ironry, the only reason why humanity is alive is all of the things the Emperor didn't want to have happen, like religious devotion, rejection of scientific advances, etc happened.
0
Psychotic OneThe Lord of No PantsParts UnknownRegistered Userregular
It's hard to write a relatable Inquisitor that also has what it takes to truly serve as the Emperor's mailed fist. Some of the stuff the veteran Inquisitors have had to deal with means they have to be a bigger monster than the monster. Doubt Worm or Nids infected 5% of a global population and no way to contain. Exterminatus. Rogue Inquisitor showing sympathy for Xeno filth. Execution before he can spreed his heresy.
The Commissars are much easier to write I think. Cain, Yarrick, etc can come off as the hard asses but with relatable motives. Cain being the guy whose misadventures have labeled him THE HERO OF THE IMPERIUM who doesn't want the fame and prays the the god emperor that he can go retire some where quiet. Yarrick a leader on one of the most brutal planets in the entire Imperium. Orkz...Chaos. It doesn't matter. They will all learn to fear you and the troops you lead.
Yeah, that's Amberly, she has some choice words to say about "traditional" inquistors... though to be fair the Imperium needs a sledgehammer too.
The empire is a sledge hammer. Its why its so wretched, because when all you have is a hammer every problem is a nail.
As Kado said, that paranoia is actually justified though given the setting. There's actually a lot of subtlety beyond just "the Imperium is awful." It is awful, but it was so even when the Emperor was alive.
And as a big ironry, the only reason why humanity is alive is all of the things the Emperor didn't want to have happen, like religious devotion, rejection of scientific advances, etc happened.
I would say the empire is alive in spite of it its ignorance, not because.
+2
DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
Man who wants to be likeable? I want to Exterminatus.
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
That's what I like about 40K, the humans have so many fucking worlds that Exterminatus becomes the easiest solution and overall it is just a drop in the ocean that is the Imperium.
Heresy being spread? Exterminatus!
Genestealer cults? Exterminatus!
Xenos filth poised to overrun the planet? Exterminatus!
Someone sneezed while praying to the God Emperor? Exterminatus!
And it at end of the day there are still umpteen-gillion humans left.
And when talking 40K, this is always relevant.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
+6
NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
Didn't one of the Inquisitors/books say that while the general/popular opinion of Inquisitors is "Exterminatis everything!" in reality, the ground war is preferable because people are replaceable but habitable planets are not.
0
KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
edited July 2015
Buttcleft you're always so (heretically) negative about the Imperium.
We're humanity to gain their Great Crusade level tech they might be "OP" combined with their numbers and GW can't have that because it betrays their grimdark thing. Then there's the Men of Iron, but they already have servitors so there's no need to bring them back. The Adeptus Mechanicus are the truely shifty ones, what with the Omnissiah*cough*Voiddragon*cough* cult and the keeping of tech from the rest of Imperium. They treat necron tech like it was from the Omnissiah itself, which is horribly stupid.
Fuck the xenos tech of course, but the reclamation and finding of new and old tech made by human hands should be available to everyone in the Imperium. They feel like one of the only really unnecessary ignorance a to me.
Edit:Everything else I agree with. 40k is interesting to me as it's basically the one fictional universe where Facism is completely justified.
We're humanity to gain their Great Crusade level tech they might be "OP" combined with their numbers and GW can't have that because it betrays their grimdark thing. Then there's the Men of Iron, but they already have servitors so there's no need to bring them back. The Adeptus Mechanicus are the truely shifty ones, what with the Omnissiah*cough*Voiddragon*cough* cult and the keeping of tech from the rest of Imperium. They treat necron tech like it was from the Omnissiah itself, which is horribly stupid.
Fuck the xenos tech of course, but the reclamation and finding of new and old tech made by human hands should be available to everyone in the Imperium. They feel like one of the only really unnecessary ignorance a to me.
Edit:Everything else I agree with. 40k is interesting to me as it's basically the one fictional universe where Facism is completely justified.
Don't forget anyone who dare improve any technology to much, or much less invent a new one. Then their head becomes a nail to the imperial hammer.
Yeah, that's Amberly, she has some choice words to say about "traditional" inquistors... though to be fair the Imperium needs a sledgehammer too.
The empire is a sledge hammer. Its why its so wretched, because when all you have is a hammer every problem is a nail.
Local planets can do pretty much whatever they want until they hit the big no-nos: no heresy, no mutants, no talking to six-limbed aliens, no worshipping false idols aka not-emperor (though local gods that act as a nice emperor stand-in are OK). That's when Inquisitors arrive and start dropping hammers of varying literalness.
So a lot of the time planets can go completely down the crapper and local planetary governors can be corrupt as heck before the empire decides to step in.
0
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
edited July 2015
The Imperium itself is awful (so is everything else in 40K), but the individual planets that make up the Imperium can vary so wildly.
You can have an idyllic world that knows no turmoil and on the other end of the spectrum you can have Mad Max.
edit- On a, mostly, unrelated note. I am totally on board the fan theory that the movie Event Horizon takes place in what would become the 40K universe and that the crew in the film ran afoul of Slaneesh during the first every warp engine test. :razz:
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
+10
KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
edited July 2015
There is also a fan theory that the world of Judge Dredd was either Terra's past or a planet disconnected from the rest of the Imperium. That it's shaped like earth isn't too odd. For some reason Warhammer Fantasy's world is also shaped like Earth. I assume that Dark Age tech came with terraforming due to the vast number of habitable planets the Imperium has found.
Edit: I also quite like the fan theory that Sigmar was one of the lost primarchs. I would say Ulric was the other... but he was a wolf.
Edit 2: Why did I think he was a wolf? He's not.
Kadoken on
0
Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
I don't know, most sources which talk about the "treachery" of aliens either references those surviving alien species like the Eldar who don't give a shit about humans, or reference events that happened tens of thousands of years in the past, in an age where they admittedly have very little history, and it all seems a lot like justifying current opinions. I think human interaction with aliens when they were rising up were very mixed, some alien races they got along great with, some alien races either tried to fuck humans over or just tried to fight them.
I mean despite what the people in the Imperium say, the actual reason the old human empire/federation/whatever fell was because of the Chaos Gods, and humans going to war with eachother. Some opportunistic aliens looking out for themselves or trying to shield themselves from the fallout might have exacerbated the issue, but they also didn't cause most of it. Hell, during the Horus Heresy the Primarchs encounter a number of human civilizations still living peacefully with aliens, and decide to genocide the aliens, or both because they were massive xenophobes and human superemecists. The Emperor himself wasn't exactly sure what the right response was, and despite how great he was he obviously wasn't above making mistakes or being wrong *cough* Horus *cough* and the Ravenor/Eisenhorn books imply that there are some humans who fairly regularly deal with aliens and a number of Inquisitors mostly overlook it because they're small fry aliens who aren't exactly a threat to the Imperium. And I mean, dealing with aliens is basically a Rogue Traders' job.
Plus I mean there's literally nothing wrong with alien technology. The reason the Imperium abhors alien technology (except for those times that they don't) is because of the extremely cultish and religious approach to technology the Mechanicus take. Sometimes they use it and sometimes they don't, and it's basically all based on doctrinal justifications and what they think their religion justifies. It's usually not really because it would be inherently damaging, it's because some of them think they should never use alien technology, and some think sometimes alright as long as it's "purified"
basically I agree with Buttcleft. The Imperium survives despite their ignorance and super dogmatic approach to most issues, not because of it. Like, Chaos is the only thing which justifies that, and it doesn't actually justify their dogmatic religious convictions, it just justifies always being on the lookout for Chaos worshipers.
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
+1
KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
Unfettered human passions feed the Chaos gods more than prayer and devotion to the Emprah.
If the Imperium wasn't so regressive and backwards they might have learned how to duplicate more Cadian Pylons and stabilized/sealed up warp storms across the galaxy.
In probably the biggest example of imperial religious stupidity.
0
KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
I don't think you can replicate them.
Also, would you really have allowed Quixos to blow up Cadia? One of the biggest contributing planets to the war effort?
(as an aside, I always wondered by Amberley referred to Quixos, a disgraced Inquisitor, in one of her chapter quotes in the Cain novels. Then again the Imperial population is like 500 trillion, so I imagine there is some overlap.)
If this game has pre-battle speeches worth actually hearing, that's a day one for me. If they also have AI that reacts as the races will, meaning orks that act like orks, etc, thats a pre-order.
If the Imperium wasn't so regressive and backwards they might have learned how to duplicate more Cadian Pylons and stabilized/sealed up warp storms across the galaxy.
In probably the biggest example of imperial religious stupidity.
Yet without it you don't get Saint Sabbat, and that's terrible.
I'm not going the whole, the Imperium is good because its fascist route. But the ruthless suppression of heresy and the Imperial faith giving people some measure of hope to stand against darkness is a thing in this setting. Just like orcs, to some extent belief itself can counter Chaos, and has a physical impact on the universe. The Emperor was cool, but failed because of his pride and fundamental misunderstanding of what makes human beings tick. For everything he accomplished, he's also equally responsible for messing up.
The good ending to 40k is all the factions destroy each other, and the universe is reborn a bit brighter. There are hints to this as well.
manwiththemachinegun on
+1
Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
Well I mean, it's (supposedly) religious fervor and belief which creates saints
not backwards social ideas.
The Imperium could be less stupid about a shit ton of things and still theoretically be super religious. They just be smarter about it.
I mean of course the Machine Cult probably has to go either way though. It's just a dumb idea. It's super cool, I love the Adeptus Mechanicus and their lore and their aesthetic
but a cult based around keeping the knowledge necessary for humankind to survive secret and in their own hands is a bad idea full stop.
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
I am super skeptical, as GW has been signing off on a lot of 40k shovelware lately
In their latest financial report or whatever, they stated with apparent pride that they don't do any market research whatsoever and that explains so much
I agree that most of their games are shit lately, but! The Van Helsing games Neocore just did are legit baller. And you were basically already an Inquisitor in those games. I have full faith that this one will actually not be crap shovelware.
And slitherine's Apocalypse game isn't terrible. Not exactly great, though.
0
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
edited July 2015
I hope in this game if you die enough times (in a short period of time) the option for Exterminatus comes up and you jump straight to a cutscene followed by the end credits. :razz:
edit- Bonus points if there is a narration describing how it was a great victory for the Imperium against the forces of Chaos/Xenos Filth/Heresy as the world burns in the background.
edit 2- Speaking of GW and Shovelware. What the Hell happened over there? GW, for as long as I can remember, had been notoriously protective of their IP. Like, absurdly so. Now, within what the last couple years, they seem to be signing off on everything that comes their way.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
0
Psychotic OneThe Lord of No PantsParts UnknownRegistered Userregular
At this point the closest thing The Imperium can hope for to get a "happy" ending in the WH40K stance is Cypher makes it to Terra. He then takes the Lion's sword and plunges it through the Emperor's body destroying it but freeing his soul-self. The warp energy being held back by the throne expands destroying Terra. The Emperor's soul enters the warp and all the belief in him across all worlds empowers him ascending him to Warp God Hood. He becomes the god of mankind and the universe expands to the WH41K. Big E and empowered marines start a new god war against Chaos.
That or during the next Black Crusade that Omegeron is revealed to be the Alpharius that survived and betrays The Black Legion killing Abbaddon and scattering The Black Legion in its wake. The chaos in the shift of power would probably be enough to break Cadia, but there is no one left unite the lost legions. Not enough leaders in Chaos trust Fabulous Bile to step in line behind him.
Yeah, that's Amberly, she has some choice words to say about "traditional" inquistors... though to be fair the Imperium needs a sledgehammer too.
The empire is a sledge hammer. Its why its so wretched, because when all you have is a hammer every problem is a nail.
As Kado said, that paranoia is actually justified though given the setting. There's actually a lot of subtlety beyond just "the Imperium is awful." It is awful, but it was so even when the Emperor was alive.
And as a big ironry, the only reason why humanity is alive is all of the things the Emperor didn't want to have happen, like religious devotion, rejection of scientific advances, etc happened.
I would say the empire is alive in spite of it its ignorance, not because.
I'd say it's a mix.
The Imperium is so fucked over and probably doomed because it's a brutal and stagnant theocracy. It can't adapt, it makes enemies where it could have gotten along, it's a brutal engine that knows only war, and some day that'll be the end of it.
But it's also only alive because it's, well, a brutal and stagnant theocracy. Belief in the Emperor unifies the Imperium when otherwise it would tear itself apart. Paranoia and dogmatism protect against Chaos and Xenos betrayal (Armor of contempt is why the Ghosts are still on the side of the saints, after all). Slow tech development is why a von neuman device hasn't been posessed by Khorne and murderkilled the entire universe. And you need a brutal engine of war when the Orks come marching by.
That's why the setting, when it works, is so interesting.
This horrible fascist hellhole may be the only way mankind can survive. Is it worth the price? And even if it is how do you maintain your humanity in the face of all that madness?
If the Imperium wasn't so regressive and backwards they might have learned how to duplicate more Cadian Pylons and stabilized/sealed up warp storms across the galaxy.
In probably the biggest example of imperial religious stupidity.
That would not be a good outcome, interestingly enough.
Cadian pylons are necron tech and GW have set up the universe for failure either way; too much Chaos and the universe is swallowed up by the warp, too little Chaos and the Necron gods feast on all the sentient races... With a bonus card of destruction being the tyranids?
They're in some kind of twisted Goldilocks zone at the moment, which is mega depressing because is this the best it can get??
I always felt that the Commissar Cain books were a spring of optimism for the 40Kverse. Leaving aside for a moment that they're comedy, you get CC making deals with the Tau on behalf of the Empire. Deals. With filthy xenos. And nobody gets backstabbed. That's astonishing, and a hope for the future (preferably a future that includes Cain sleeping on a bed of money with many beautiful ladies, being very loyal to Amberly).
Dracomicron on
+2
Psychotic OneThe Lord of No PantsParts UnknownRegistered Userregular
I always felt that the Commissar Cain books were a spring of optimism for the 40Kverse. Leaving aside for a moment that they're comedy, you get CC making deals with the Tau on behalf of the Empire. Deals. With filthy xenos. And nobody gets backstabbed. That's astonishing, and a hope for the future (preferably a future that includes Cain sleeping on a bed of money with many beautiful ladies, being very loyal to Amberly).
Tau are acceptable compromise as long as they don't subvert Imperium goals in the sector. The Tau are the closest thing to a neutral faction that you get. They offer the glimmer of hope to gain followers. You just got to sign the bottom line to be chemically castrated and become a third world citizen in their empire for the greater good. Emperor damned space cows and their super quick power armors. If there wasn't constant Nid and Chaos incursions they'd be wiped out.
I always felt that the Commissar Cain books were a spring of optimism for the 40Kverse. Leaving aside for a moment that they're comedy, you get CC making deals with the Tau on behalf of the Empire. Deals. With filthy xenos. And nobody gets backstabbed. That's astonishing, and a hope for the future (preferably a future that includes Cain sleeping on a bed of money with many beautiful ladies, being very loyal to Amberly).
We all know 40k is among the worst possible settings to exist in, so it is nice to see the fiction embrace its more ludicrous aspects with some humor. Just go for it!
I always like how they have such technological stagnancy both because they literally created spaceSkynet at one point in time, and because Chaos infects machines pretty easily. So their idolization of 'machine spirits' and the formation of the Adeptus Mechanicus are ways of combating that.
Posts
In their latest financial report or whatever, they stated with apparent pride that they don't do any market research whatsoever and that explains so much
I mean before this we had the Relic games (aside from some old, hard to find strategy games and Fire Warrior), which are really good and stuff. But there is room for other games too, yes even stuff that plays like that moldy old boardgame. And we have Space Hulk: Deathwing on the way, Total War: Warhammer, and maybe Fatshark can even pull off Warhammer: Vermintide. Who knows. I don't think I'll hold my breath on that one though.
I think the fact that we have more games from GW of various levels of quality (yes, including a couple of shovelware titles) is a good thing. They still have probably as many AAA irons in the fire as they used to, and then they have a bunch of (surprise!) affordable stuff that aims to recreate some of that table top style. Talisman: Digital Edition for example. And yeah, as far as the 40K MMO goes, man who knows.
I think we are getting more AAA GW games from competent studios than ever before really. It's just that they've also unshackled a lot of their older, more niche IPs for more inexpensive independent development. Some of this stuff is going to be dismal, of course but we are also getting some pretty nifty things that the GW fanbase has wanted on PC for a really long time.
The empire is a sledge hammer. Its why its so wretched, because when all you have is a hammer every problem is a nail.
LOOT FOR THE LOOT GODS; FARM FOR THE FARM THRONE.
Every problem IS a nail.
Let psykers go unregulated?
Demon incursion/Witches/fucked up Chaos shit
Let people stray too far away from Imperial Dogma?
See above
Try to negotiate with xenos?
Backstabs/Lies/Deaths of whole worlds because of (Dark) Eldar fuckery.
One of my favorite parts of 40k background is that when humans took to the stars, they actually did try a Star Trek style federation. They protected other xenos races and tried to coexist.
You know what happened?
The xenos they protected still tried to fuck over humans (and that's xenos gratitude for you) and didn't back them up when the belligerent xenos came.
Fuck xenos.
...though I do like the idea in What If the Emperor had a Text-to-speech device of the Emperor making himself the Greater Good to the Tau.
I love that series. Though they take the piss out of the Inquisition a lot, which, to be fair, the situations they provide are pretty worthy of scorn. Especially Karamazov. What a dick.
Except the aftermath of the Krypttmann-tyranid incident where they gelded a Imperial populations and the Emprah got mad about it. One word: "Genestealers"
I'm all for the (War)hammering.
As Kado said, that paranoia is actually justified though given the setting. There's actually a lot of subtlety beyond just "the Imperium is awful." It is awful, but it was so even when the Emperor was alive.
And as a big ironry, the only reason why humanity is alive is all of the things the Emperor didn't want to have happen, like religious devotion, rejection of scientific advances, etc happened.
The Commissars are much easier to write I think. Cain, Yarrick, etc can come off as the hard asses but with relatable motives. Cain being the guy whose misadventures have labeled him THE HERO OF THE IMPERIUM who doesn't want the fame and prays the the god emperor that he can go retire some where quiet. Yarrick a leader on one of the most brutal planets in the entire Imperium. Orkz...Chaos. It doesn't matter. They will all learn to fear you and the troops you lead.
I would say the empire is alive in spite of it its ignorance, not because.
Heresy being spread? Exterminatus!
Genestealer cults? Exterminatus!
Xenos filth poised to overrun the planet? Exterminatus!
Someone sneezed while praying to the God Emperor? Exterminatus!
And it at end of the day there are still umpteen-gillion humans left.
And when talking 40K, this is always relevant.
@manwiththemachinegun
Though I think that the tech thing is three prong:
We're humanity to gain their Great Crusade level tech they might be "OP" combined with their numbers and GW can't have that because it betrays their grimdark thing. Then there's the Men of Iron, but they already have servitors so there's no need to bring them back. The Adeptus Mechanicus are the truely shifty ones, what with the Omnissiah*cough*Voiddragon*cough* cult and the keeping of tech from the rest of Imperium. They treat necron tech like it was from the Omnissiah itself, which is horribly stupid.
Fuck the xenos tech of course, but the reclamation and finding of new and old tech made by human hands should be available to everyone in the Imperium. They feel like one of the only really unnecessary ignorance a to me.
Edit:Everything else I agree with. 40k is interesting to me as it's basically the one fictional universe where Facism is completely justified.
Don't forget anyone who dare improve any technology to much, or much less invent a new one. Then their head becomes a nail to the imperial hammer.
Local planets can do pretty much whatever they want until they hit the big no-nos: no heresy, no mutants, no talking to six-limbed aliens, no worshipping false idols aka not-emperor (though local gods that act as a nice emperor stand-in are OK). That's when Inquisitors arrive and start dropping hammers of varying literalness.
So a lot of the time planets can go completely down the crapper and local planetary governors can be corrupt as heck before the empire decides to step in.
You can have an idyllic world that knows no turmoil and on the other end of the spectrum you can have Mad Max.
edit- On a, mostly, unrelated note. I am totally on board the fan theory that the movie Event Horizon takes place in what would become the 40K universe and that the crew in the film ran afoul of Slaneesh during the first every warp engine test. :razz:
Edit: I also quite like the fan theory that Sigmar was one of the lost primarchs. I would say Ulric was the other... but he was a wolf.
Edit 2: Why did I think he was a wolf? He's not.
I mean despite what the people in the Imperium say, the actual reason the old human empire/federation/whatever fell was because of the Chaos Gods, and humans going to war with eachother. Some opportunistic aliens looking out for themselves or trying to shield themselves from the fallout might have exacerbated the issue, but they also didn't cause most of it. Hell, during the Horus Heresy the Primarchs encounter a number of human civilizations still living peacefully with aliens, and decide to genocide the aliens, or both because they were massive xenophobes and human superemecists. The Emperor himself wasn't exactly sure what the right response was, and despite how great he was he obviously wasn't above making mistakes or being wrong *cough* Horus *cough* and the Ravenor/Eisenhorn books imply that there are some humans who fairly regularly deal with aliens and a number of Inquisitors mostly overlook it because they're small fry aliens who aren't exactly a threat to the Imperium. And I mean, dealing with aliens is basically a Rogue Traders' job.
Plus I mean there's literally nothing wrong with alien technology. The reason the Imperium abhors alien technology (except for those times that they don't) is because of the extremely cultish and religious approach to technology the Mechanicus take. Sometimes they use it and sometimes they don't, and it's basically all based on doctrinal justifications and what they think their religion justifies. It's usually not really because it would be inherently damaging, it's because some of them think they should never use alien technology, and some think sometimes alright as long as it's "purified"
basically I agree with Buttcleft. The Imperium survives despite their ignorance and super dogmatic approach to most issues, not because of it. Like, Chaos is the only thing which justifies that, and it doesn't actually justify their dogmatic religious convictions, it just justifies always being on the lookout for Chaos worshipers.
In probably the biggest example of imperial religious stupidity.
Also, would you really have allowed Quixos to blow up Cadia? One of the biggest contributing planets to the war effort?
(as an aside, I always wondered by Amberley referred to Quixos, a disgraced Inquisitor, in one of her chapter quotes in the Cain novels. Then again the Imperial population is like 500 trillion, so I imagine there is some overlap.)
Yet without it you don't get Saint Sabbat, and that's terrible.
I'm not going the whole, the Imperium is good because its fascist route. But the ruthless suppression of heresy and the Imperial faith giving people some measure of hope to stand against darkness is a thing in this setting. Just like orcs, to some extent belief itself can counter Chaos, and has a physical impact on the universe. The Emperor was cool, but failed because of his pride and fundamental misunderstanding of what makes human beings tick. For everything he accomplished, he's also equally responsible for messing up.
The good ending to 40k is all the factions destroy each other, and the universe is reborn a bit brighter. There are hints to this as well.
not backwards social ideas.
The Imperium could be less stupid about a shit ton of things and still theoretically be super religious. They just be smarter about it.
I mean of course the Machine Cult probably has to go either way though. It's just a dumb idea. It's super cool, I love the Adeptus Mechanicus and their lore and their aesthetic
but a cult based around keeping the knowledge necessary for humankind to survive secret and in their own hands is a bad idea full stop.
I agree that most of their games are shit lately, but! The Van Helsing games Neocore just did are legit baller. And you were basically already an Inquisitor in those games. I have full faith that this one will actually not be crap shovelware.
And slitherine's Apocalypse game isn't terrible. Not exactly great, though.
edit- Bonus points if there is a narration describing how it was a great victory for the Imperium against the forces of Chaos/Xenos Filth/Heresy as the world burns in the background.
edit 2- Speaking of GW and Shovelware. What the Hell happened over there? GW, for as long as I can remember, had been notoriously protective of their IP. Like, absurdly so. Now, within what the last couple years, they seem to be signing off on everything that comes their way.
That or during the next Black Crusade that Omegeron is revealed to be the Alpharius that survived and betrays The Black Legion killing Abbaddon and scattering The Black Legion in its wake. The chaos in the shift of power would probably be enough to break Cadia, but there is no one left unite the lost legions. Not enough leaders in Chaos trust Fabulous Bile to step in line behind him.
I'd say it's a mix.
The Imperium is so fucked over and probably doomed because it's a brutal and stagnant theocracy. It can't adapt, it makes enemies where it could have gotten along, it's a brutal engine that knows only war, and some day that'll be the end of it.
But it's also only alive because it's, well, a brutal and stagnant theocracy. Belief in the Emperor unifies the Imperium when otherwise it would tear itself apart. Paranoia and dogmatism protect against Chaos and Xenos betrayal (Armor of contempt is why the Ghosts are still on the side of the saints, after all). Slow tech development is why a von neuman device hasn't been posessed by Khorne and murderkilled the entire universe. And you need a brutal engine of war when the Orks come marching by.
That's why the setting, when it works, is so interesting.
This horrible fascist hellhole may be the only way mankind can survive. Is it worth the price? And even if it is how do you maintain your humanity in the face of all that madness?
Why I fear the ocean.
That would not be a good outcome, interestingly enough.
Cadian pylons are necron tech and GW have set up the universe for failure either way; too much Chaos and the universe is swallowed up by the warp, too little Chaos and the Necron gods feast on all the sentient races... With a bonus card of destruction being the tyranids?
They're in some kind of twisted Goldilocks zone at the moment, which is mega depressing because is this the best it can get??
Tau are acceptable compromise as long as they don't subvert Imperium goals in the sector. The Tau are the closest thing to a neutral faction that you get. They offer the glimmer of hope to gain followers. You just got to sign the bottom line to be chemically castrated and become a third world citizen in their empire for the greater good. Emperor damned space cows and their super quick power armors. If there wasn't constant Nid and Chaos incursions they'd be wiped out.
Is... is this an actual fan theory? Early editions of 40K were basically a direct rip-off of 2000 AD injected with some fantasy. It wasn't subtle.
We all know 40k is among the worst possible settings to exist in, so it is nice to see the fiction embrace its more ludicrous aspects with some humor. Just go for it!