Always use both brakes simultaneously. Due to weight transfer about 70% of your braking potential is from the front wheel, but use both all the time always.
Anyone have any opinions on the different types of pedal cleats? I've had SPD up until now, but my shoes are falling apart and my pedals aren't great so I'm thinking about trying something new. All for road riding
My seat is also held together with electrical tape at this point so I should get a new one of those too. Any tips for new seat buying?
SPDs are pretty great, so I'd say go for those again (unless you want to shell out for Speedplays which are the greatest thing in cycling since the last greatest thing, but really they are actually amazing). I run the SPD MD540s on one bike, and they are damn near bulletproof. I have the M324s on my old commuter-turned-zwift bike as well.
I like ISM saddles, but they are again kinda spendy and take a little getting-used-to because of the "no nose" design. In general, saddle is going to be highly personal and take some trial and error.
Hey Bike people! My bike has front and rear breaks. When am I supposed to use them?
First of all, they're brakes, not breaks (Sorry, this one just kills me).
Front brake has the most power, but can also potentially flip you over if you grab it too hard.
Rear brake is great for scrubbing speed at a slower rate, especially in corners (though note it may cause you to skid if grabbed in a corner).
Ideally, you use them as little as possible, as momentum bled off through braking is wasted effort.
Realistically: Stop for stop signs and other signals (if you ride on the road), always pre-slow for weird intersections or traffic to allow for longer braking period so people don't hit you if they're not paying attention.
If Mountain biking - braking is a personal thing and it's all about how to transfer weight balance. Try to make a conscious effort to use turning and other techniques to bleed off your speed rather than the brake, as it will help your bike handling long term.
Anyone have any opinions on the different types of pedal cleats? I've had SPD up until now, but my shoes are falling apart and my pedals aren't great so I'm thinking about trying something new. All for road riding
My seat is also held together with electrical tape at this point so I should get a new one of those too. Any tips for new seat buying?
SPDs are pretty great, so I'd say go for those again (unless you want to shell out for Speedplays which are the greatest thing in cycling since the last greatest thing, but really they are actually amazing). I run the SPD MD540s on one bike, and they are damn near bulletproof. I have the M324s on my old commuter-turned-zwift bike as well.
I like ISM saddles, but they are again kinda spendy and take a little getting-used-to because of the "no nose" design. In general, saddle is going to be highly personal and take some trial and error.
Those ISM saddles look neat. Googling shows that there's a shop in the city that sells them and has a saddle demo service where you can try them for a while. Might give that a go
A note on technique: apply gentle, steady, increasing pressure to your brake levers. This will help you discover at what point your wheels lock, and importantly will allow you to then relieve pressure to prevent your tires dragging or flipping over your bars as schuss described.
Basically if the wheels are turning, you have control. If they are not, you are headed to accident town.
@DisruptedCapitalist
Some more info on brakes... Fronts should provide the vast majority of your stopping power, about 75%+ or so. Most of the "flipping over the handlebars" happens when people brake hard and don't brace their arms/hands against the handlebars (i.e. the bike stops but the human keeps moving, bumping their thighs against the handlebars causing a flip). You definitely want to modulate (think "pumping" the brakes in cars pre-ABS [am I dating myself?]), if you're on long, steep downhill patches and run the brakes without flipping between each wheel and modulating you can risk overheating the rim which can cause a tire blowout.
@Beef Avenger
I've used SPDs on my road bike for the last year and a half that I've owned it and they are the only clipless I've used but I look at my dad's old '76 Fuji Gran Tourer with the platforms and I can't even go on nostalgia rides with it anymore :biggrin:
Went and picked up some new shoes, cleats, and pedals. Ended up sticking with SPD. New shoes are road biking shoes compared to my previous mountain biking ones, walking directly on the cleats is going to make stops for groceries a bit more awkward, think I'm going to need to figure out a cheap cleat cover solution just so that walking in them isn't so very loud.
Ordered a ISM PR3.0 Saddle from amazon. Hope I end up liking it
For a contrary opinion, I have Time ATAC (Alium, not sure what the equivalent is these days) pedals on everything -- I started with SPDs but they got clogged up one time too many in snow and/or mud, so I went to something less adjustable but more immune to getting bunged up.
They're not the lightest pedals in the world, but the oldest pair I have are probably 10 years old and still going strong because they have basically no moving parts; I've worn through more cleats than pedals by a factor of 3 or so at this point.
walking directly on the cleats is going to make stops for groceries a bit more awkward, think I'm going to need to figure out a cheap cleat cover solution just so that walking in them isn't so very loud.
Mine have raised rubber points on the toe and on the back two corners of the cleat, to increase grip and stability (these are wear items and may be replaced easily), so maybe look for those? But yeah walking on the cleats is great because you don't use your heels at all and get that max calves workout.
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Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
LuvTheMonkeyHigh Sierra SerenadeRegistered Userregular
I'm totally fine with having a hardtail (or rather, I'm totally fine with not spending the amount of money required to get a worth-it full suspension). Disc brakes though, those are civilization!
Hot take: disc brakes are too heavy. If your bike weighs under ten pounds, one tenth of that weight shouldn't be the brakes!
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Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
Disc brakes are only as heavy as you want them to be - for a road bike you only need little 160/140mm rotors and two-piston calipers.
The 210/200mm rotors and 4 piston calipers on downhill bikes are there for a reason...
Appreciation for disc brakes varies depending on how hilly the places you ride are, or how much you weigh. If you ride in rain or snow, discs can make an enormous difference. Where I used to ride in upstate NY we had enough steep hills that I really wanted to get a road frame with disc mounts, but where I am now rim brakes are fine.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
Anyone have any opinions on the different types of pedal cleats? I've had SPD up until now, but my shoes are falling apart and my pedals aren't great so I'm thinking about trying something new. All for road riding
Speedplay Frogs. Even on a road bike.
I used to ride the original Speedplay X series titanium pedals, a true road pedal, but after a while, you just get annoyed at walking around on road shoes when you aren't cycling, and unfortunately, you'll find yourself walking far more often than you anticipated.
So I switched over to Speedplay Frogs, an off road pedal for my road bike, with cycling shoes that look like street shoes, and have never looked back. Cycling shoes that you can comfortably walk in are a godsend.
Anyone have any opinions on the different types of pedal cleats? I've had SPD up until now, but my shoes are falling apart and my pedals aren't great so I'm thinking about trying something new. All for road riding
Speedplay Frogs. Even on a road bike.
I used to ride the original Speedplay X series titanium pedals, a true road pedal, but after a while, you just get annoyed at walking around on road shoes when you aren't cycling, and unfortunately, you'll find yourself walking far more often than you anticipated.
So I switched over to Speedplay Frogs, an off road pedal for my road bike, with cycling shoes that look like street shoes, and have never looked back. Cycling shoes that you can comfortably walk in are a godsend.
You can use a lot of walkable shoes with SPDs as well. Or even CX shoes, which are designed for running and clips.
I remain a big (road) rim brake fan. Hydraulic discs do well what they do well, but, for me, their downsides are way too numerous and large. To each their own, though!
Disc brakes freak me the fuck out. It's like crashing into a wall every I give the gentlest squeeze.
Decent quality hydraulics give you more control
Yeah, absolutely. Mine are kind ofnold and a bit flogged out now, but in 2007 they were good mid-high level bits of kit, and the modulation and feedback is light years ahead of any of the caliper brakes I have used when dicking around on mates road bikes. Plus, riding through a puddle doesn't mean your brakes are useless for a second or so on first application afterwards.
If you're under ~90 kg, buy a set of Swissstop greens (GHP2) and never sweat wet-weather braking again.
Well, unless you're running carbon rims, in which case go with Swissstop Black Prince. And possibly new rims if you're still on 1st/2nd gen carbon, because holy hell those things can be a death trap in the wet.
Disc brakes are amazing. Anyone who used to mountain bike on cantilevers and/or v brakes will nod their head vigorously in agreement. Actually being able to stop is great, as opposed to "gently influence the bike to go slower".
Also - if mountain biking, locking up the rear and skiing it through terrain is a valid strategy when it's incredibly slippery.
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Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
Hydro discs are absurdly reliable and easy to service.
The avids on my mountain bike haven't been serviced in about seven years of all weather riding, aside from replacing the pads, which you do by undoing a clip, lifting out the old pads, slotting in the new, and replacing the clip.
The amount of faffing my road bike rim brakes have needed in comparison is incredible - adjusting for pad wear, cables gumming up, having to re-centre them after replacing pads, etc. It's a bit better now that I'm using fully sealed cables but they're still a pain.
I can't find decent weights anywhere but I'd be surprised if there was a significant weight penalty for discs. Road calipers are fairly chunky things relative to a small dual piston brake, and flat mount means no significant mounting hardware.
Plus, rim brakes are generally dreadful. In theory they can be pretty good but keeping them performing well is hugely maintenance intensive.
Edit: apparently ultegra disc is 310g heavier as a complete group than ultegra rim, which is more than I thought, but still firmly in "meh" territory for me
Huh. That's honestly good to hear! Road discs here have been a fairly low-level maintenance headache with my groups, but that gives me hope that our experiences are an outlier. Things that have happened here in the last two-ish years:
bike air-carried in a hard case for a trip developed leaking seal (change in air pressure / temperature on the plane?). OOPS. Let me tell you, that's super-fun to crack open and discover at baggage pickup.
friends repeatedly forget to put pad keepers in when front wheel is off; car vibration closes the calipers and we spend ten minutes (I exaggerate) at the ride start wiggling pads apart
multiple bikes flipped upside down to work on wheels on the roadside + imperfect seals == leaked fluid from the hoods == air introduction
see above: inability to bleed brakes mid-trip without a lot of supplies
difficulty bleeding in a couple cases caused missed rendezvous (though, to be fair, those may have been inexperienced owners)
damaged fitting leaking == fluid-soaked pad == hardly-working front brakes
soap / oil transfer to rotors during wash-down == squeeeeeeeeeal (though this seems to maybe have gone away with the latest systems?)
one frame paint damaged from leaked GE/DOT fluid. Likely not a problem on a (non-custom) modern PU clear-coated finish. I think he re-sprayed it with Imron or something hard so shouldn't happen again!
Whereas my experience with 30+ years of rim brakes is: twist knob, spin wheel once to make sure it's not rubbing, squeeze for safety check, go. Change pads every few years; make sure they're pointing in the right direction. Change cables and housings every five to ten. I've seen two surprise brake cable failures in all that time: one ball end failure (snapped at the joint inside the hood) and one rust failure (bike rebuild and ignored that water would pool in a funky bend at the top/seat tube). Caveat emptor.
I love rim brakes on my (now-dead, how sad!) mountain bike, by the way! I can totally see their appeal! I'll put them on my next touring (heavy-load-carrying) bike. I just have no idea why I would want them on my road bike. I can lock up either wheel with a one- or two-finger pull and the improved brake feel is such a marginal gain for the not-insubstantial headaches.
Re data (prices MSRP; disclaimer: I am not a weight weenie if it costs much at all):
2016 SRAM Red 22 group: 1741g, $2620
2016 SRAM Red 22 HRD disc group: 2119g, ~$2900 w/ rotors
The gap is a much bigger fraction of the price if you go down to Force, etc., but a smaller fraction of the weight. Add about 80 to 150g to go from a rim brake wheelset to a disc one, so net cost of ~500g (1.1 lb). Weight difference is about the same for Shimano but I have SRAM data at hand. A lot of folks predicted that wheel mfgs would ditch the brake track and re-engineer a wheel to save that weight at the rim; we haven't really seen that (ENVE SES line is, I think, the closest we've seen?). I think that there's just not that much room at the moment to shave the rim without making laterally flimsy or violating ETRTO recommendations. We'll see!
For a road racer, it's about apparent rotational mass of the disc brake, which is why you rarely see it on road bikes geared towards racers. Aka, rotating mass is harder to accelerate and decelerate than static mass, due to gyroscopic effects, and due to air/road friction, any rotating mass on a bike will always be undergoing acceleration or deceleration.
A 300g disc of 140mm diameter at 255rpm (approximately 20mph for a 700c tire) is equivalent to a 1.5kg static mass in apparent weight.
Actually, it's more that until this year, the major orgs didn't allow them, so no one bothered using them or making them.
Also - I've had the best luck with Shimano discs.
Yeah, once the UCI blesses them for road officially, they will be a stock configuration option on more of the high end race bikes.
There's a couple guys I have raced with that have them on, though. The officials don't really care about low end amateur racers holding strict with the rules.
Also, rim or disc, hydro brakes are the way and the light.
Posts
when you want to stop
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
SPDs are pretty great, so I'd say go for those again (unless you want to shell out for Speedplays which are the greatest thing in cycling since the last greatest thing, but really they are actually amazing). I run the SPD MD540s on one bike, and they are damn near bulletproof. I have the M324s on my old commuter-turned-zwift bike as well.
I like ISM saddles, but they are again kinda spendy and take a little getting-used-to because of the "no nose" design. In general, saddle is going to be highly personal and take some trial and error.
Never. Can't stop, won't stop, don't want to.
First of all, they're brakes, not breaks (Sorry, this one just kills me).
Front brake has the most power, but can also potentially flip you over if you grab it too hard.
Rear brake is great for scrubbing speed at a slower rate, especially in corners (though note it may cause you to skid if grabbed in a corner).
Ideally, you use them as little as possible, as momentum bled off through braking is wasted effort.
Realistically: Stop for stop signs and other signals (if you ride on the road), always pre-slow for weird intersections or traffic to allow for longer braking period so people don't hit you if they're not paying attention.
If Mountain biking - braking is a personal thing and it's all about how to transfer weight balance. Try to make a conscious effort to use turning and other techniques to bleed off your speed rather than the brake, as it will help your bike handling long term.
Those ISM saddles look neat. Googling shows that there's a shop in the city that sells them and has a saddle demo service where you can try them for a while. Might give that a go
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
Basically if the wheels are turning, you have control. If they are not, you are headed to accident town.
Some more info on brakes... Fronts should provide the vast majority of your stopping power, about 75%+ or so. Most of the "flipping over the handlebars" happens when people brake hard and don't brace their arms/hands against the handlebars (i.e. the bike stops but the human keeps moving, bumping their thighs against the handlebars causing a flip). You definitely want to modulate (think "pumping" the brakes in cars pre-ABS [am I dating myself?]), if you're on long, steep downhill patches and run the brakes without flipping between each wheel and modulating you can risk overheating the rim which can cause a tire blowout.
@Beef Avenger
I've used SPDs on my road bike for the last year and a half that I've owned it and they are the only clipless I've used but I look at my dad's old '76 Fuji Gran Tourer with the platforms and I can't even go on nostalgia rides with it anymore :biggrin:
Ordered a ISM PR3.0 Saddle from amazon. Hope I end up liking it
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
They're not the lightest pedals in the world, but the oldest pair I have are probably 10 years old and still going strong because they have basically no moving parts; I've worn through more cleats than pedals by a factor of 3 or so at this point.
Mine have raised rubber points on the toe and on the back two corners of the cleat, to increase grip and stability (these are wear items and may be replaced easily), so maybe look for those? But yeah walking on the cleats is great because you don't use your heels at all and get that max calves workout.
Conversely, I am simply not interested in ever buying another bicycle without dual suspension and hydraulic disc brakes.
The 210/200mm rotors and 4 piston calipers on downhill bikes are there for a reason...
Hot take: downgraded to warm take.
Decent quality hydraulics give you more control
I used to ride the original Speedplay X series titanium pedals, a true road pedal, but after a while, you just get annoyed at walking around on road shoes when you aren't cycling, and unfortunately, you'll find yourself walking far more often than you anticipated.
So I switched over to Speedplay Frogs, an off road pedal for my road bike, with cycling shoes that look like street shoes, and have never looked back. Cycling shoes that you can comfortably walk in are a godsend.
You can use a lot of walkable shoes with SPDs as well. Or even CX shoes, which are designed for running and clips.
Yeah, absolutely. Mine are kind ofnold and a bit flogged out now, but in 2007 they were good mid-high level bits of kit, and the modulation and feedback is light years ahead of any of the caliper brakes I have used when dicking around on mates road bikes. Plus, riding through a puddle doesn't mean your brakes are useless for a second or so on first application afterwards.
Well, unless you're running carbon rims, in which case go with Swissstop Black Prince. And possibly new rims if you're still on 1st/2nd gen carbon, because holy hell those things can be a death trap in the wet.
Also - if mountain biking, locking up the rear and skiing it through terrain is a valid strategy when it's incredibly slippery.
On the plus side, I found another couple of hundred metres of climbing I can loop into my usual evening ride.
Edit: the downside being a peak gradient of 22% on said hill
I dunno, they're pretty great for wet weather commuting. No loss of friction and the bike stays much cleaner.
(I know, the weight issue may be a non-issue if your bike is already under the UCI limit and you need padding.)
The avids on my mountain bike haven't been serviced in about seven years of all weather riding, aside from replacing the pads, which you do by undoing a clip, lifting out the old pads, slotting in the new, and replacing the clip.
The amount of faffing my road bike rim brakes have needed in comparison is incredible - adjusting for pad wear, cables gumming up, having to re-centre them after replacing pads, etc. It's a bit better now that I'm using fully sealed cables but they're still a pain.
I can't find decent weights anywhere but I'd be surprised if there was a significant weight penalty for discs. Road calipers are fairly chunky things relative to a small dual piston brake, and flat mount means no significant mounting hardware.
Plus, rim brakes are generally dreadful. In theory they can be pretty good but keeping them performing well is hugely maintenance intensive.
Edit: apparently ultegra disc is 310g heavier as a complete group than ultegra rim, which is more than I thought, but still firmly in "meh" territory for me
Whereas my experience with 30+ years of rim brakes is: twist knob, spin wheel once to make sure it's not rubbing, squeeze for safety check, go. Change pads every few years; make sure they're pointing in the right direction. Change cables and housings every five to ten. I've seen two surprise brake cable failures in all that time: one ball end failure (snapped at the joint inside the hood) and one rust failure (bike rebuild and ignored that water would pool in a funky bend at the top/seat tube). Caveat emptor.
I love rim brakes on my (now-dead, how sad!) mountain bike, by the way! I can totally see their appeal! I'll put them on my next touring (heavy-load-carrying) bike. I just have no idea why I would want them on my road bike. I can lock up either wheel with a one- or two-finger pull and the improved brake feel is such a marginal gain for the not-insubstantial headaches.
Re data (prices MSRP; disclaimer: I am not a weight weenie if it costs much at all):
2016 SRAM Red 22 group: 1741g, $2620
2016 SRAM Red 22 HRD disc group: 2119g, ~$2900 w/ rotors
The gap is a much bigger fraction of the price if you go down to Force, etc., but a smaller fraction of the weight. Add about 80 to 150g to go from a rim brake wheelset to a disc one, so net cost of ~500g (1.1 lb). Weight difference is about the same for Shimano but I have SRAM data at hand. A lot of folks predicted that wheel mfgs would ditch the brake track and re-engineer a wheel to save that weight at the rim; we haven't really seen that (ENVE SES line is, I think, the closest we've seen?). I think that there's just not that much room at the moment to shave the rim without making laterally flimsy or violating ETRTO recommendations. We'll see!
</bikenerd>
A 300g disc of 140mm diameter at 255rpm (approximately 20mph for a 700c tire) is equivalent to a 1.5kg static mass in apparent weight.
Also - I've had the best luck with Shimano discs.
There's a couple guys I have raced with that have them on, though. The officials don't really care about low end amateur racers holding strict with the rules.
Also, rim or disc, hydro brakes are the way and the light.