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If I shoot your mum, it's clear I have no respect for your feelings.
See Æthelred's post.
'Kay. I submit, from this page, Exhibits A through C.
Because physically harming someone, and possibly killing him/her, is somehow morally and emotionally equivalent to having consentual sex with him/her?
Do you seriously not see anything wrong with trying to draw that comparison?
Which prove that I don't care about the personal commitments of a man I've never met before. But it spectacularly fails to prove that I "disrespect" anyone.
Is it impossible to have a general feeling of respect towards someone I have never met before, but feel no obligation to help him hold his commitments? Are the two mutually exclusive?
Not really, no; we're not talking about levels of hurt, we're talking about whether hurt is caused at all. In both cases hurt is caused and should be taken into account when considering your actions.
In the context of this discussion, no.
It's not that hard. If someone kills a guy's mother, it's reasonable to assume that the guy will be upset. Similarly, if a guy has sex with somebody's committed partner, it's reasonable to assume that the somebody will be upset.
Obviously killing someone's mother is much, much worse than helping someone cheat, but that's not the goddamn point.
How the second sentence can follow the first is mind boggling. To respect a person is - perhaps among other things - to value (some or all of) the things that the person himself values. If the person in question values his relationship with another person and you act in such a way as to sabotage it, then you are disrespecting that person.
Unless there is something wrong with the commitment that person has, then you can't respect him without respecting - and thus at the very least not working to sabotage - his commitments.
Well, what do you mean by "apply to life in general"? As far as the situations you're talking about (where human unpredictability is a larger factor than our predictability) I was under the impression that, in practical terms, he was talking about self-imposed blame, not society-imposed. I mean, it's not as though society can know whether or not you were pre-aware of what would happen, blatantly obvious effects of one's actions notwithstanding.
Quite right, and it should be noted that consentual sex is the sharing of PLEASURE with another person (or people, if you're lucky), whereas shooting someone is the intentional infliction of PAIN upon another.
I think it is disingenious to say "Pleasure IS PAIN!! Black is WHITE!" and then wonder why I don't get it.
Which is another place the analogy falls down. A murderer is directly responsible for the death of his victim; whereas PARTNER is directly responsible for the breaking of a vow s/he took. If the third party participant is guilty of anything, it is perhaps getting lucky and causing a (perhaps much needed) orgasm.
If you define "worse" as "exact polar opposite," than sure. I'll go with that.
If a woman is looking to cheat on her husband, I think it reasonable to believe that there is something wrong with the commitment. In fact, I find it incredibly easy to believe that there being something wrong with the commitment is the entire reason she'd be looking for extramarital ass in the first place. I think a wife is the best judge of how good her commitment is for her.
How is that unreasonable?
.. You're not having consensual sex with the woman's husband.
More to the point, I'm not having sex with him AT ALL. Or any other kind of contact. Which is a good thing to remember.
If anyone is going to fuck him, one way or another, it'll be her.
No physical contact, but plenty of emotional contact - you're going to cause him hurt, which you should take into consideration in your actions.
For once we are in some sort of agreement, although I think nutpunching would be more analagous than shooting someone.
Drunks Against Mad Mothers
Repeatedly asserting something does not make it true, Æthelred.
He might hurt. But since his pain would be that of a broken promise, and *I* never promised him anything, I think it is clear where all of the blame lies.
But then again, I still buy Nikes and iPods and shit, so I'm probably a child-slave-lord, too.
PS: How do you respond so quickly?
I thought we'd had enough caveats back up the page that breaking up the relationship might conceivably be a good result; but in the vast vast majority of cases you know that you're going to cause hurt. It's certainly nowhere near as much your fault as it is the woman's, but she doesn't hold all the blame - you play your part.
edit: is 2 minutes quickly?
But see, you're helping her do it. It's like she comes to you and says "hey, hold this guy while I kick him in the balls, oh and let me borrow one of your boots." And then you do it.
Drunks Against Mad Mothers
Wow.
Okay. I totally understand now. That... that makes sense. Seriously. I'm the problem.
Because if she were like Salma fucking Hayek, and offered me a night of intense sex if I'd help her out in that one little thing? I'd be all over it. He'll recover, goddamit.
Carry on, then.
Edit: I'm used to response time being measured in days, I guess.
I could claim it. I'd be lying my ass off, but I could claim it. But I'm basically amoral anyway.
I'd do Laura Bush if she asked.
Drunks Against Mad Mothers
Dude. Dude. Just...no.
Troll.
(Referring to Laura Bush of course.)
Whatever. It would be worth it.
Drunks Against Mad Mothers
...
I am selfish
I am wrong
I am right
I swear I'm right
Swear I knew it all along :whistle:
Ugh. Dashboard lyrics. I knew it.
(BTW, I've been arguing from a strictly academic viewpoint. I live my life according to a heavy mix of the Judeo-Christian ethics and morals and "the golden rule.")
Mind you I'm not just talking about fucking someone for the fuck of it. Two different things.
Yeah, but we KNEW you were humorless. :lol:
I think that was very well said.
Desire is desire.
Word. I also agree.