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Guys, Let's Make A Roguelike! (Community Roguelike Creation)
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And you could totally do the limb system with guns, and I'd make melee much more common anyways (at least at first). Limb damage would mainly affect the player anyways. Would it be possible for the player to become infected? If so, it might be kinda cool for them to gain a resistance to infection if they survive it.
I just like the idea of a modern area because of all the possibilities. Allow players to use furniture and debris to barricade doors and such. The player could barricade a building, climb up to the roof, and pick off zombies from there with guns... of course, that would inevitably bring more zombies, and they'd run out of food and ammunition as well.
The more freedom you give to the player when it comes to decision making, the better. If the player finds a ladder, they could use it to climb through the window of a building, or cross gaps between buildings. A player could leap from one building to another if they're close enough or one's significantly lower. Of course, a long drop could also cause broken limbs.
Like, I appreciate how cool that would be? But multiplayer multiplies the amount of debugging and design by a horrific amount. I don't think I'd get anywhere fast with that.
Once I get a solid core, though, simple co-op is a distinct possibility.
Oh, I didn't say I couldn't do the limb system with guns - I just said there wouldn't be as much cool stuff. The limb system with guns would be limited to just blowing them off, see, which is pretty boring - but when you take, say, melee combat in Dwarf Fortress's adventure mode, you can twist a lizardman's head off, or break his arm and then kick him in the stomach, then stab him in the leg. It's a lot more dynamic and brutal. And fun.
Infection is something I haven't really considered yet. It's very, very promising though. Carrying around meds and the like.
Agreed on pretty much all points.
I like this one. I want to be able to play as a cowboy with a steam powered mechanical arm.
I don't know if this applies to other people, but with rogue-likes I don't really care if the other classes and races are all that balanced as long as they are not grossly skewed in anyone direction. A little unbalance is fun and can make it more interesting to try different things.
Also it needs mutants who work somewhat like the demon-spawn from Dungeon Crawl.
See, you just made me think - mutations could be an interesting twist. Mordheim has something much like that.
vhzod: That I've made it? That it's a different game? Honestly, it's not like people are choosing between rival products; this is a free project being made for fun. Even if I made a direct clone of IVAN, I'd get something out of it, and I'm sure the people contributing in this thread would, too.
If you want to go ahead and make your shadowrun game, that would be brilliant. I'd totally support you. But it's drifted pretty far from roguelike.
Ultimately its your game design not mine, but I can still try and direct some aspects of the original design. I've thought a lot about game design and played a lot of games. I don't mean to sound like a jerk but games are my main form of entertainment so they're quite important to me.
I concur. I mean, I never really get near the overarching goals in roguelikes anyhow. I just want to smite things, and be amused by the outcomes.
Man, I totally appreciate where you're coming from. Don't worry, I threw this open to the community primarily because I'm interested in this kind of discussion. Ultimately, yeah, I'm going to go with what I think is going to be fun to make, but criticism and input into the inner workings of the design is exactly what I want. I have no doubt that the setting and design will change a ton of times before I really get down to work.
So tell me. Shadowrun setting and multiplayer component aside (we'll assume for now that even if I did your design, I'd have to go in stages, and therefore handle singleplayer first - but AI squads can still be in) what is it about your design that you think makes it interesting and different?
Games do need goals, because without one, you're directionless, as much from a development standpoint as from a player one.
However, goal and focus are two different things. I think the genius of nethack is that you don't care or think about the goal all that much, and it's barely even mentioned, since the focus is on smiting things. So I think the solution is really just that - to give your player a totally nebulous and unimportant goal, barely mention it, and then let him run around kicking zombies in the groin.
EDIT: Here's what I mean by an awesome damage system. A random example, from the DF forums:
The giant cave spider bites You in the head!
It is torn!
You have been stunned!
Your left eye has been torn out!
Your right ear has been badly torn!
You feel numb!
The giant cave spider latches on firmly!
You bash The giant cave spider in the left third leg with your ®ðiron flailð¯!
It is broken!
You are feeling sluggish!
The giant cave spider shoots out thick strands of webbing!
You are caught up in the web!
You fall over.
You are caught up in the web!
The giant cave spider shakes You around by the head!
It is badly ripped!
The giant cave spider shakes You around by the head!
It is mangled!
The giant cave spider shakes You around by the head!
You lose hold of the ®ðdeer bone amuletð¯.
You lose hold of the ®*fox bone earring*¯.
You lose hold of the ®ðiron flailð¯.
You lose hold of the iron helm.
You lose hold of the Rope reed head veil.
The head is ripped away and remains in The giant cave spider's grip!
You have been struck down.
The giant cave spider spits out the Posa Materthrura Gisu Rusus's head.
Also, I suggest automatically using a melee attack when the enemy is in melee range, unless specified otherwise. If you want to point blank the zombie's face with a shotgun, then you could, but the default attack should be kicking the enemy away from you, or pistol whipping them.
Speaking of which, bayonets? Hell. Crossbows? Bow and arrows? etc? Obvious advantage of something like a bow and arrow would be the retrieval of used ammo. As for crossbows, I met a guy that had to cock his with a car jack, he could drive a steel bolt into an engine block with that sucker, but reloading was a complete pain in the ass.
Also, the theme, content and direction of a game can (and should, if it will improve the game) change at the drop of a hat. And do not try yourself to a label, rougelike or otherwise. Make the game, then label it if you want.
have it for mac too?
One thing I'd like to see in a roguelike (but not mine) is a sort of Devil May Cry esque combat system, where you're pushing back, throwing them at each other and juggling them in the air with lots of special moves that can be chained together. Of course, due to the turn based nature of roguelikes, you'd be able to do things far beyond what a normal human playing DMC could. Not to mention stuff that would be too hard to simulate in a 3d action game but trivial in a roguelike, like throwing a guy through a brick wall and bashing his face in with one of the bricks, or, hell, demolishing a whole building if that's what it takes.
Gamertag: Clorfhanger
Also, another race could be robots who have to eat and drink things that are combustible, like coal, paper, alcohol, and oil instead of food.
You can probably beat it.
[tries to hide huge hard-on] ERM yes... that sounds like a viable idea.
I have thunk on it, and I think the simplest goal you could have, short of survival, is that there's word of a Utopia of sorts where zombies haven't infilitrated, steam-powered trains run a regular schedule, and technology is actually steadily improving, whereas everywhere else in the world guns (and specifically gunpowder) are somewhat scant, the trains that do run do so sporadically, since a schedule would guarantee it would get robbed, and so forth.
I feel, personally, that guns should not be terribly common.
EDIT for flagrant grammar-naziism.
See: the Thief series.
You could also make it like those men controlled by the machines.
They got like steam in them.
yes. steampowered zombies.
I have to admit I'm not huge into roguelikes, but the feeling I get is that they generally just give a premise and you just kinda go from there. Going any deeper with it will just bog down the chopping down of a zombie kobolds.
Gamertag: Clorfhanger
Given the tenants of steampunk means you could go with the more victorian elements of steampunk. More 'Difference Engine' and 'Arcanum' less anime, and even without obvious fireball throwing wizards and space Gandalfs, you're left with plenty of mad scientists, mysticism, ancient curses, native burial grounds, and other forms of supernatural trouble causing that doesn't seem terribly outlandish.
In fact, I think there would be something to say for a game that took this super light superstitious bent on magic that is just outside the player's reach. Or even if it is in the player's reach, it's foudned on obscure mystics and obscure superstition as opposed to laser spells.
I like the idea, but I like the other ideas, so I'm not one to say really.
Edit: To reiterate: Mad scientists are cool. Powerful superstition turned "fact" is cool. Magitekness is cool. Deadlandish is cool. I'm indecisive.
Also genius.
Are we not answering this then?