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Guys, Let's Make A Roguelike! (Community Roguelike Creation)

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Posts

  • EvilBadmanEvilBadman DO NOT TRUST THIS MAN Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Where might someone find this program you're using to create, if it's free.

    FyreWulff wrote: »
    I should note that Badman is fucking awesome
    XBL- Evil Badman MD; Steam- EvilBadman; Twitter - EvilBadman
  • NerdtendoNerdtendo Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Leveling up is okay and all, but with this sort of design, it's best to really make that player feel vulnerable. I could see someone toughening up over time when exposed to constant danger, so those level ups might be alright with an HP increase. I just feel it's ridiculous when you've got someone that can be shot in the head and survive.

    And you could totally do the limb system with guns, and I'd make melee much more common anyways (at least at first). Limb damage would mainly affect the player anyways. Would it be possible for the player to become infected? If so, it might be kinda cool for them to gain a resistance to infection if they survive it.

    I just like the idea of a modern area because of all the possibilities. Allow players to use furniture and debris to barricade doors and such. The player could barricade a building, climb up to the roof, and pick off zombies from there with guns... of course, that would inevitably bring more zombies, and they'd run out of food and ammunition as well.

    The more freedom you give to the player when it comes to decision making, the better. If the player finds a ladder, they could use it to climb through the window of a building, or cross gaps between buildings. A player could leap from one building to another if they're close enough or one's significantly lower. Of course, a long drop could also cause broken limbs.

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  • vhzodvhzod Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    I was just thinking about a 2d overhead Shadowrun minorly multiplayer game. You have six players that run a randomly generated or premade run complete with matrix nodes, and some places for driving. Even I can make an overhead tile based engine using XNA. Using the shadowrun system or something like it reduces the design time and XNA will make programming it pretty easy. Also lots of people like making sprites these days. Minorly multiplayer will also be fun. You could even expand it by having an instanced megasprawl sort of like in Guild Wars. I know you want zombies, and deserts and crap but it is possible to make a setting/game too complicated (much as I am loathe to admit it).

  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User
    edited April 2007
    That's... really drifting away from roguelike. Also, shadowrun is far more complicated a setting than I'll ever come up with for this game.

    Like, I appreciate how cool that would be? But multiplayer multiplies the amount of debugging and design by a horrific amount. I don't think I'd get anywhere fast with that.

    Once I get a solid core, though, simple co-op is a distinct possibility.

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  • vhzodvhzod Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    It is pretty much a simple co op. Just have self hosted servers and a lobby program where people can set up runs and teams. You'd have to do it in stages anyway.

  • NerdtendoNerdtendo Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Ah! You know what? How about if you include level DOWNS as well? If someone's arm takes large amounts of damage, it might become weaker. Like in IVAN I suppose.

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  • vhzodvhzod Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    As another selling point to my shadowrun idea I would like to note that the shadowrun setting allows for zombies! well ghouls really, but close enough. Just focusing on zombie killing limits the scope and lifetime of your game severely.

  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Nerdtendo wrote: »
    Leveling up is okay and all, but with this sort of design, it's best to really make that player feel vulnerable. I could see someone toughening up over time when exposed to constant danger, so those level ups might be alright with an HP increase. I just feel it's ridiculous when you've got someone that can be shot in the head and survive.
    I know what you mean, don't worry. Severe damage to the head will lead to instadeath. 'Course, with helmets you've then at least got a chance. Levelling up won't be extreme - just enough to be satisfying.
    Nerdtendo wrote:
    And you could totally do the limb system with guns, and I'd make melee much more common anyways (at least at first). Limb damage would mainly affect the player anyways. Would it be possible for the player to become infected? If so, it might be kinda cool for them to gain a resistance to infection if they survive it.
    Oh, I didn't say I couldn't do the limb system with guns - I just said there wouldn't be as much cool stuff. The limb system with guns would be limited to just blowing them off, see, which is pretty boring - but when you take, say, melee combat in Dwarf Fortress's adventure mode, you can twist a lizardman's head off, or break his arm and then kick him in the stomach, then stab him in the leg. It's a lot more dynamic and brutal. And fun.

    Infection is something I haven't really considered yet. It's very, very promising though. Carrying around meds and the like.
    Nerdtendo wrote:
    I just like the idea of a modern area because of all the possibilities. Allow players to use furniture and debris to barricade doors and such. The player could barricade a building, climb up to the roof, and pick off zombies from there with guns... of course, that would inevitably bring more zombies, and they'd run out of food and ammunition as well.

    The more freedom you give to the player when it comes to decision making, the better. If the player finds a ladder, they could use it to climb through the window of a building, or cross gaps between buildings. A player could leap from one building to another if they're close enough or one's significantly lower. Of course, a long drop could also cause broken limbs.
    Agreed on pretty much all points.

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  • Abysmal LynxAbysmal Lynx Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Okay, I think I can safely say that I'm getting a zombie vibe here. Which is great, because I really wanted to go for that.

    However, I'm torn between those two settings. Each have their own advantages and disadvantages.

    Steampunk Fantasy Post-Zombie Apocalypse:
    You'd play as a soldier in a fantasy setting, possibly part of a squad, investigating the underground ruins of an old city in the aftermath of a zombie apocalypse. There'd be heavy steampunk elements, so there'll be guns, steam killer robots, trains and whatever other mechanisms you can think of, and crafting'd go hand in hand with that. Think Vagrant Story's undercity sections.
    Pros:
    With both guns and medieval melee weapons, the limb system could get real interesting
    Room for a wide, wide variety of enemies, but mainly zombies
    Much wider, non-standard race selection - you could theoretically be any sentient race that exists in the game, including lizardmen, squid-heads, an insect-race... Yeah, I'm a big Mieville fan.
    Cons:
    Not as many people seem interested?
    The setting will take a little more work
    It'd have to be balanced more carefully than the other setting, which means more time spent playtesting rather than getting things done

    I like this one. I want to be able to play as a cowboy with a steam powered mechanical arm.

    I don't know if this applies to other people, but with rogue-likes I don't really care if the other classes and races are all that balanced as long as they are not grossly skewed in anyone direction. A little unbalance is fun and can make it more interesting to try different things.

    Also it needs mutants who work somewhat like the demon-spawn from Dungeon Crawl.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • vhzodvhzod Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    I'll be the devil's advocate here. So far it sounds like IVAN with zombies (which IVAN already has). What does your game design have that IVAN doesn't?

  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User
    edited April 2007
    I like this one. I want to be able to play as a cowboy with a steam powered mechanical arm.

    I don't know if this applies to other people, but with rogue-likes I don't really care if the other classes and races are all that balanced as long as they are not grossly skewed in anyone direction. A little unbalance is fun and can make it more interesting to try different things.

    Also it needs mutants who work somewhat like the demon-spawn from Dungeon Crawl.
    Agreed, the most important thing for a roguelike is for it to be crazy and fun.

    See, you just made me think - mutations could be an interesting twist. Mordheim has something much like that.

    vhzod: That I've made it? That it's a different game? Honestly, it's not like people are choosing between rival products; this is a free project being made for fun. Even if I made a direct clone of IVAN, I'd get something out of it, and I'm sure the people contributing in this thread would, too.

    If you want to go ahead and make your shadowrun game, that would be brilliant. I'd totally support you. But it's drifted pretty far from roguelike.

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  • vhzodvhzod Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    There's a couple reasons I'm being like this. Firstly I want it to be something I want to play because there seems to be a lack of good games available right now. Secondly, I want to help you but I won't be able to get into it if I don't think its going to turn out to be something I'd be interested in playing. Thirdly, I have a game design philosophy that basically says "if its not going to be awesome and different why even bother".

    Ultimately its your game design not mine, but I can still try and direct some aspects of the original design. I've thought a lot about game design and played a lot of games. I don't mean to sound like a jerk but games are my main form of entertainment so they're quite important to me.

  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    edited April 2007
    One good sci-fi one would be to scum from the HMS Pandora boardgames my dad had. The Pandora was a survey ship that could take alien creatures with it. Well, of course something goes wrong and it is damaged. So all the creatures get out, and the robots go berserk, and the life support is failing. You had to repair and restart the ship and stay alive. Something based on that would make a good sci-fi roguelike.

    sig.gifSteam | D3: captaink#1674 | 3DS: 2466-1914-7679
  • ArthArth Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Wally wrote: »
    :^: for skills over leveling.

    It'd be cool to have no final goal other than "Zombies are running amok, see how long you can survive."

    I concur. I mean, I never really get near the overarching goals in roguelikes anyhow. I just want to smite things, and be amused by the outcomes.

    Artheleron.png
  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User
    edited April 2007
    vhzod wrote: »
    There's a couple reasons I'm being like this. Firstly I want it to be something I want to play because there seems to be a lack of good games available right now. Secondly, I want to help you but I won't be able to get into it if I don't think its going to turn out to be something I'd be interested in playing. Thirdly, I have a game design philosophy that basically says "if its not going to be awesome and different why even bother".

    Ultimately its your game design not mine, but I can still try and direct some aspects of the original design. I've thought a lot about game design and played a lot of games. I don't mean to sound like a jerk but games are my main form of entertainment so they're quite important to me.

    Man, I totally appreciate where you're coming from. Don't worry, I threw this open to the community primarily because I'm interested in this kind of discussion. Ultimately, yeah, I'm going to go with what I think is going to be fun to make, but criticism and input into the inner workings of the design is exactly what I want. I have no doubt that the setting and design will change a ton of times before I really get down to work.

    So tell me. Shadowrun setting and multiplayer component aside (we'll assume for now that even if I did your design, I'd have to go in stages, and therefore handle singleplayer first - but AI squads can still be in) what is it about your design that you think makes it interesting and different?

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  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Artheleron wrote: »
    Wally wrote: »
    :^: for skills over leveling.

    It'd be cool to have no final goal other than "Zombies are running amok, see how long you can survive."

    I concur. I mean, I never really get near the overarching goals in roguelikes anyhow. I just want to smite things, and be amused by the outcomes.

    Games do need goals, because without one, you're directionless, as much from a development standpoint as from a player one.

    However, goal and focus are two different things. I think the genius of nethack is that you don't care or think about the goal all that much, and it's barely even mentioned, since the focus is on smiting things. So I think the solution is really just that - to give your player a totally nebulous and unimportant goal, barely mention it, and then let him run around kicking zombies in the groin.

    EDIT: Here's what I mean by an awesome damage system. A random example, from the DF forums:
    Spoiler:

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  • NerdtendoNerdtendo Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Yes! Agreed! I love the complex damage systems. Again, it's so much better when it's talking about you taking the hits, but it can go both ways. If you're caught without weapons, and your character is good in hand to hand combat, then it'd be great to rip off a zombie's arm, and beat them with it.

    Also, I suggest automatically using a melee attack when the enemy is in melee range, unless specified otherwise. If you want to point blank the zombie's face with a shotgun, then you could, but the default attack should be kicking the enemy away from you, or pistol whipping them.

    Speaking of which, bayonets? Hell. Crossbows? Bow and arrows? etc? Obvious advantage of something like a bow and arrow would be the retrieval of used ammo. As for crossbows, I met a guy that had to cock his with a car jack, he could drive a steel bolt into an engine block with that sucker, but reloading was a complete pain in the ass.

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  • PenguinSephPenguinSeph Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Dude, the theme sounds like fried awesome coated in choclate awesome, but don't forget that you need an engine before you even think about starting on the theme. Remember, while the theme and icing can make a good game THE BEST THING EVER, a game with a bad engine will always be terrible and forgotten.

    Also, the theme, content and direction of a game can (and should, if it will improve the game) change at the drop of a hat. And do not try yourself to a label, rougelike or otherwise. Make the game, then label it if you want.

    That one video made me giggle when he was spanking the clown and it said LEVEL UP!!!!!


    Ive always wanted to level up from spanking a clown.
  • mr weenismr weenis Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    could you uh...


    have it for mac too?

    Nickle wrote: »
    972 dicks is a lot of dicks. :(
  • LorkLork Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    It's funny, I'm actually planning to make my own zombie survival roguelike, so when I read the first half of this thread I was worried that you'd try to do the exact same thing that I want to do. It seems to be going in a different direction now, so that's cool. Now that I've thought about it a bit, it would probably be interesting to see two different takes on the same subject anyway.

    One thing I'd like to see in a roguelike (but not mine) is a sort of Devil May Cry esque combat system, where you're pushing back, throwing them at each other and juggling them in the air with lots of special moves that can be chained together. Of course, due to the turn based nature of roguelikes, you'd be able to do things far beyond what a normal human playing DMC could. Not to mention stuff that would be too hard to simulate in a 3d action game but trivial in a roguelike, like throwing a guy through a brick wall and bashing his face in with one of the bricks, or, hell, demolishing a whole building if that's what it takes.

    Steam Profile: Lork
    Gamertag: Clorfhanger
  • NerdtendoNerdtendo Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Two zombie roguelikes? Why didn't anyone tell me it's my birthday!

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Id suggest any roguelike where you dont need to type on the keyboard to do things. Also, if the background could use sprites that would be great. Id rather see ascii representing orcs roaming over an understandable background than orc icons roaming over ascii characters.

    Your puny weapons are useless against me
  • Abysmal LynxAbysmal Lynx Registered User
    edited April 2007
    I think that graphics should be optional but included. I usually like to use ascii, but I know a lot of people don't.

    Also, another race could be robots who have to eat and drink things that are combustible, like coal, paper, alcohol, and oil instead of food.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Dee KaeDee Kae Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    vhzod wrote: »
    I'll be the devil's advocate here. So far it sounds like IVAN with zombies (which IVAN already has). What does your game design have that IVAN doesn't?


    You can probably beat it.

  • piLpiL Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Zombie Steampunk sounds pretty kick ass. I don't think I have much I could contribute, especially until after finals week, but I wouldn't mind trying to help out some on something like this.

  • nefffffffffffnefffffffffff Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    another race could be robots who have to eat and drink things that are combustible, like coal, paper, alcohol, and oil instead of food.

    [tries to hide huge hard-on] ERM yes... that sounds like a viable idea.

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    I want a race car roguelike. It would be like a normal roguelike except you have tracks instead of dungeons and need to destroy other cars instead of monsters.

  • WoodroezWoodroez Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Artheleron wrote: »
    Wally wrote: »
    :^: for skills over leveling.

    It'd be cool to have no final goal other than "Zombies are running amok, see how long you can survive."

    I concur. I mean, I never really get near the overarching goals in roguelikes anyhow. I just want to smite things, and be amused by the outcomes.

    Games do need goals, because without one, you're directionless, as much from a development standpoint as from a player one.


    I have thunk on it, and I think the simplest goal you could have, short of survival, is that there's word of a Utopia of sorts where zombies haven't infilitrated, steam-powered trains run a regular schedule, and technology is actually steadily improving, whereas everywhere else in the world guns (and specifically gunpowder) are somewhat scant, the trains that do run do so sporadically, since a schedule would guarantee it would get robbed, and so forth.

    I feel, personally, that guns should not be terribly common.

    EDIT for flagrant grammar-naziism.

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  • vhzodvhzod Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    How do you explain zombies in a steampunk universe? Once you do that then you have opened up a new gameplay/class path with whatever dark magic/science/wtf made the undead.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    vhzod wrote: »
    How do you explain zombies in a steampunk universe? Once you do that then you have opened up a new gameplay/class path with whatever dark magic/science/wtf made the undead.

    See: the Thief series.

    You could also make it like those men controlled by the machines.

  • vhzodvhzod Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    So now its magisteampunk? Thats what Thief was. And FF6.

  • JJJJ Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    steam punk zombies.

    They got like steam in them.

    yes. steampowered zombies.

    Mr. Banballow was so badly maimed, he turned into a hideous monster, oozing and bleeding, snarling and growling like a beast---enraged and bent on revenge. He tracked down the kids responsible for the fire and killed them one by one----with a blowtorch. That wasn't enough for Banballow. He won't leave his inn or his memories, so there he waits....in ambush....
  • WoodroezWoodroez Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Honestly, I don't give a damn how zombies are made. You could come up with any explanation and have it boil down to "Oh, that's like movie [x] or game [y]."

    I have to admit I'm not huge into roguelikes, but the feeling I get is that they generally just give a premise and you just kinda go from there. Going any deeper with it will just bog down the chopping down of a zombie kobolds.

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  • JJJJ Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    Radioactive zombies controlled by a steam powered train possessed by a dead serial killer.

    Mr. Banballow was so badly maimed, he turned into a hideous monster, oozing and bleeding, snarling and growling like a beast---enraged and bent on revenge. He tracked down the kids responsible for the fire and killed them one by one----with a blowtorch. That wasn't enough for Banballow. He won't leave his inn or his memories, so there he waits....in ambush....
  • LorkLork Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    People, please. I thought everybody knew what the real cause of the zombie apocalypse was by now.
    Spoiler:

    Steam Profile: Lork
    Gamertag: Clorfhanger
  • Cosmic SombreroCosmic Sombrero Registered User
    edited April 2007
    Deadlandish. Please.

  • piLpiL Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    vhzod wrote: »
    How do you explain zombies in a steampunk universe? Once you do that then you have opened up a new gameplay/class path with whatever dark magic/science/wtf made the undead.

    Given the tenants of steampunk means you could go with the more victorian elements of steampunk. More 'Difference Engine' and 'Arcanum' less anime, and even without obvious fireball throwing wizards and space Gandalfs, you're left with plenty of mad scientists, mysticism, ancient curses, native burial grounds, and other forms of supernatural trouble causing that doesn't seem terribly outlandish.


    In fact, I think there would be something to say for a game that took this super light superstitious bent on magic that is just outside the player's reach. Or even if it is in the player's reach, it's foudned on obscure mystics and obscure superstition as opposed to laser spells.

    I like the idea, but I like the other ideas, so I'm not one to say really.

    Edit: To reiterate: Mad scientists are cool. Powerful superstition turned "fact" is cool. Magitekness is cool. Deadlandish is cool. I'm indecisive.
    JJ wrote: »
    Radioactive zombies controlled by a steam powered train possessed by a dead serial killer.

    Also genius.

  • vhzodvhzod Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    So how does making a community game over a forum work exactly?

  • EvilBadmanEvilBadman DO NOT TRUST THIS MAN Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
    EvilBadman wrote: »
    Where might someone find this program you're using to create, if it's free.

    Are we not answering this then?

    FyreWulff wrote: »
    I should note that Badman is fucking awesome
    XBL- Evil Badman MD; Steam- EvilBadman; Twitter - EvilBadman
  • WoodroezWoodroez Registered User regular
    edited April 2007
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