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[XCOM] XCOM 2: War of the Chosen Announced - The Real War begins in August

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    LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    On the shallower side of things, man I am I glad that you can change the colour/remove the helmet on the ruler suits. I'll put up with a lot of bad fashion for some good stats, but looking like a reject pinata is past my limit.

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    mastertheheromasterthehero Professional Video Editor & Book Author Registered User regular
    Okay, so, against my best instincts, I downloaded the Long War toolkit so I could get Hidden Potential and Not Created Equal. Played through a couple of abortive C/I games (collapsed around the second resistance raid each time).

    I'm not sure if it's related, but, for the past two games, eventually one of my squad slots (the 4th) has disappeared at the squad deployment prep screen. The soldier is still there, but I can't change his/her loadout or look at stats unless I put the soldier in a different slot. I can still "Autofill squad" and a solider will appear there. The last squad slot appears to have disappeared as well, but I don't have that upgrade yet.

    Tried reloading, no dice. Turned off the toolkit, came back in, the squad slot returned, though the game grumbled that loading the save could cause instability.

    I then turned the toolkit back on. Not only did the squad slot disappear again, but the entire game crashed when I went in to edit options to see if anything was weird there.

    Aaaand... this is why I don't like 3rd party mods.

    I hear you on that, better to just download cosmetic mods than overhauls but I'm sure someone can help you out.

    In other news:

    I wish the rulers moved on every 2nd turn and not every turn. I had a nasty encounter with a Archon ruler who used his devastate ability on my squad. What sucks about this is that you have NO OPPORTUNITY to move away! It's pretty much a guaranteed hit because the devastate move will happen DURING YOUR TURN. I was on the roof of a 3rd story building, Archon ruler used devastate. I moved one unit over to the left and KABOOM!

    Whole squad got blown up, fell three floors, all died or fell unconscious. Even if you keep your squad spread out, at some point the Archon ruler is going to use devastate and then your units are screwed. What also sucks is when these assholes show up on timed missions. The archon ruler showed up on a VIP rescue and he was way too powerful for my squad, even after using a freezer bomb on him. I restarted the mission and decided not to go on the roof where the archon ruler was.

    Just feels a little too unfair right now, would love to see what the pros are doing to combat these alien rulers.

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    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    There's now a mod that stops Rulers from appearing on council missions and avenger defences, if anyone is interested in that.

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    mastertheheromasterthehero Professional Video Editor & Book Author Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    There's now a mod that stops Rulers from appearing on council missions and avenger defences, if anyone is interested in that.

    Hmm, tempting but the alien rulers definitely add a level of fear that I don't normally get in X-Com games. But I'd rather just make it so rulers move every 2 turns. It's just too brutal.

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    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Ironically the seem to be more mods that make the rulers harder than the other way around.

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    heenatoheenato Alice Leywind Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Personally, what I would do probably is make them act only on the aliens turns, but give them 3 or 4 AP. That way they're still a huge threat as opposed to normal aliens. But they're also not breaking literally every rule in the game.

    They'd be able to gold move and then STILL get in a shot. that's pretty dangerous. But nowhere near as bullshit as being able to move across the entire map and get off 4 shots.

    heenato on
    M A G I K A Z A M
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    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Well, there is a mod that allows you to configure the rulers to eith only get reaction moves for your offensive actions or do exactly what you describe, 3 actions limited to the alien's turn.
    Needs custom config files though outside the workshop. Don't know if I'd want that.

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    mastertheheromasterthehero Professional Video Editor & Book Author Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Well, there is a mod that allows you to configure the rulers to eith only get reaction moves for your offensive actions or do exactly what you describe, 3 actions limited to the alien's turn.
    Needs custom config files though outside the workshop. Don't know if I'd want that.

    Yeah, I don't really want to drastically affect my base game that much. I'm one of the players who think Long War is too hard. I think Firaxis went a bit overboard and catered this expansion to the hardcore Beaglerush and Marbozir players. Though I haven't had that much difficulty keeping them at bay and it has been challenging in a fun way, the Archon Ruler eliminated all of that fun for me.

    Having an alien ruler show up on a timed mission is probably the most frustrating thing for me because 1.) It means I'll probably have to kill the VIP or 2.) Lose the mission and extract right away. That makes for great story and can be a lot of fun, but when you have an archon ruler with 3 full bars of health, doesn't stay frozen for the entire turn, then uses devastate which goes off on the next turn (GUARANTEED HIT), all fun goes out the window.

    I can deal with the viper lord and the berserker, but f- that Archon.

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    LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    The DLC's worth it for the weapons, at least; the bolt caster and axe go a long way towards getting you over that early-game hump.

    At least until the Berserker Queen knocks three people unconscious in a single round and takes you from A-team to squad wipe.

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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited May 2016
    honovere wrote: »
    Ironically the seem to be more mods that make the rulers harder than the other way around.

    Mostly it's because they're ridiculously easy because the new equipment is broken to all hell. You can practically chain stun things into oblivion. They've also got kind of dumb AI, sometimes doing things like moving instead of attacking on obvious flanking shots. The other thing is they're entirely vulnerable to repeaters, which leads to hilarious situations where one appears and instantly dies the very first shot against it.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    mastertheheromasterthehero Professional Video Editor & Book Author Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    honovere wrote: »
    Ironically the seem to be more mods that make the rulers harder than the other way around.

    Mostly it's because they're ridiculously easy because the new equipment is broken to all hell. You can practically chain stun things into oblivion. They've also got kind of dumb AI, sometimes doing things like moving instead of attacking on obvious flanking shots. The other thing is they're entirely vulnerable to repeaters, which leads to hilarious situations where one appears and instantly dies the very first shot against it.

    "Easy" is a very subjective term. I'm one of the few that are grateful when the AI bugs out because it gives me a chance to keep my soldiers alive.

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Did a little research, and apparently Long War Toolbox hasn't worked correctly since Alien Hunters, so I guess I'll wait for it to be patched before trying it again.

    Man, I can't wait for Shen's Last Gift. It is like when you were a kid and you just know that you're going to get your arms & legs chopped off and stuffed into a mecha for Christmas.

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    ExtreaminatusExtreaminatus Go forth and amplify, the Noise Marines are here!Registered User regular
    And instead of that, you get SHIVs.

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    mastertheheromasterthehero Professional Video Editor & Book Author Registered User regular
    "My last gift to you, is my son. Kal'el. Raise him as you would your own."

    Or we get the Robocop soldier class.

    Oooh, that reminds me. I've got a mission that's crashing on me whenever I move a soldier, gotta see if it's my mod or a game engine problem.

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    And instead of that, you get SHIVs.

    I WOULD BE OKAY WITH THAT.

    SHIVs are awesome! Allow me to customize them and I would consider Shen to be a pretty legit gift-giver, especially considering Vahlen's contribution under the X-ray tree.

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    C/I game done. Would have been a lot easier if the first Archon I dominated had been able to move at all, but nope, it was bugged in place and so was stuck outside of the final battle room. *sigh*

    Now to catch my breath and then work on the Legendary game I had going.

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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Yeah I'm partway through my first Alien Hunters run. I have to say, it's not that great.

    I think they took the one thing that was this game's weakness - the uptempo pace and balance around killing stuff before it can even get a shot off - and exacerbated it entirely. But instead of having to kill something you basically are taking the new gear and chain stunning/freezing it until it either runs away or dies.

    I'm really underwhelmed right now, to the point where I'm not even sure it's worth finishing this run.

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    BethrynBethryn Unhappiness is Mandatory Registered User regular
    I completed Alien Hunters a few weeks back, and to be brutally honest, it feels more like a high quality user mod than a piece of official DLC.

    The Rulers themselves do not feel polished; they can be a cakewalk or a campaign-killer. The weapons are aesthetically out of place with XCOM, although I don't feel they are a particular balance issue (Throw Axe might be too good though, and Frost Grenade should be limited to a 1 use slot only on Grenadiers). As for the armour, what came to mind was promotional launch crossovers between e.g. Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age; armour sets that look completely out of place, as with the weapons.

    Comparing it to Firestorm and Progeny, I think it fits a better niche, altering the general gameplay of a campaign, rather than just providing 3 missions with a custom soldier(s) and a lot of resources, but they just didn't hit the mark in making the Rulers feel good to fight.

    ...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Having seen a fair bit of the DLC I pretty much agree. They're either ridiculously trivial and no threat (you can chain stun them into oblivion) or they're just impossible to deal with (forcing an instant retreat). The new equipment also imbalances the early game quite a bit, while the aliens again get nothing to deal with the fact the game is a complete faceroll/cakewalk later on in the campaign. I'm becoming pretty convinced that Firaxis just isn't sure what good DLC for a game like this looks like and don't really know what they want (or should) add to it.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Aaaand I just ran into a game-breaking bug. Either the Dark Event "Vigilance" stacks, or I got some sort of fluke, because now, even soldiers under concealment can be seen at over a dozen squares away. And if they aren't concealed, forget it - any movement basically triggers every single pod within a 20+ square radius.

    This is fucking stupid. Combined with Alien Hunters, this has made my game unplayable because literally everything on the map shows up all at once, and it's impossible to deal with. My last Retaliation mission had three pods and a Berserker Queen all show up within 2 turns, right next to the spawn. This mission is supposed to be a Raid, so all my guys are under concealment, but they immediately get spotted 20 squares from the enemy base by a fucking turret, followed shortly by 2 pods with those ridiculous Archons that can't get hit even at point-blank range.

    This DLC is really, really disappointing, and is only serving to remind me of what I didn't like with this sequel and why I never played it again after only 2 runs.

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    LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    My general verdict on the DLC after a few fights is that the rulers are fun to fight... if they're the only pod you have active. If you're trying to organize actions to deal with another pod while it's taking actions inbetween, you get steamrolled. So it took the most annoying facet of the base game (dancing around pod activation) and made it twice as bad.

    New equipment's fine, though. The early game is the biggest hump, so I'm okay with a smoother ride into the more interesting middle. I just hope one of the expansions give you more agency, because there's still a lot of sitting around hoping the resource you want comes up and waiting for timers (both your own and enemy) to tick over. If I need intel I should be able to go get it, not hope the resistance hands me the mission I need. It's very passive for a game about taking the fight to the enemy.

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    My general verdict on the DLC after a few fights is that the rulers are fun to fight... if they're the only pod you have active. If you're trying to organize actions to deal with another pod while it's taking actions inbetween, you get steamrolled. So it took the most annoying facet of the base game (dancing around pod activation) and made it twice as bad.

    New equipment's fine, though. The early game is the biggest hump, so I'm okay with a smoother ride into the more interesting middle. I just hope one of the expansions give you more agency, because there's still a lot of sitting around hoping the resource you want comes up and waiting for timers (both your own and enemy) to tick over. If I need intel I should be able to go get it, not hope the resistance hands me the mission I need. It's very passive for a game about taking the fight to the enemy.

    You know you can grind intel at home base, right?

    Anyway, I have only managed to get the reward for the snake king so far; on the game that I managed that, I was running a dark VIP extraction where one of my guys got knocked out cold by a stun lancer. So two of my team was busy carrying bodies, and a beacon flare lights up near the extraction zone. I have just enough movement to get to where I can sprint and extract before the ADVENT guys would get a turn...

    Of course, the berserker ruler must've been standing behind a pillar or something, because it revealed when I had gotten halfway and proceeded to destroy my guys who were way out of position and encumbered. I think one person escaped, the mission failed, and I ended up scrubbing that campaign.

    The second time I met the berserker ruler, I killed it... during the blacksite mission. I failed to remember that you don't get to loot the field on that mission because you extract instead of taking control of the mission site, so I didn't get the reward. That run failed for entirely different reasons. My current run I've been holding off scanning for DLC after getting the weapons. Maybe I'll try when I get my psykers up and running.

    I really like the idea of the rulers, and the first mission is hilarious,
    How am I not running Bradford on every mission? :lol: The man is a one-person kill team.
    but I'm definitely going to be wary about using Alien Hunters in the future.

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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    It would be cool if they were their own mission. Or you had to do a series of missions to hunt them down and kill them.

    The concept is really cool, but the whole "LOL I GET TO ATTACK EVERY TIME YOU DO LITERALLY ANYTHING" design is just stupid. It's way too all-or-nothing (much like the tactical layer of this game, really). If they just had them pop up in missions randomly and you had to chase them off along with any other units, that would be just fine. Or if they gave them actual cool abilities (and not cheese bullshit stuff) and gave you more tools to deal with it other than what are essentially stunlock mechanics.

    Also, the aesthetics of the new stuff is just not very good. It doesn't fit the universe at all, and exacerbates the Anarchy's Children stuff where it all feels completely out of place in the universe they've built. In both of these DLC I feel like they've latched on to a very niche, albeit incredibly rabid, portion of the fanbase and simply given them everything they've asked for without considering the ramifications to the larger audience.

    But I guess at this point it's just whining, so I'll let it go and leave the thread in peace.

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    LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited May 2016
    You know you can grind intel at home base, right?

    It takes most of a month of continuous scanning to gather enough for even the cheapest resistance contact. It's not exactly a prime solution. And it's an example resource; if I need elerium, alloys, cores, the best solution I've got is to hope a supply raid shows up or spend more of that precious intel at the black market.

    In an ideal world you'd use contacts like scientists or engineers; assign them to an area, get the stuff you want added to your monthly supply drop instead of just straight supplies, and open up avenues to establish your own raids and possibly provoke retaliation instead of waiting for an unrelated timer to count down.

    Edit: the new gear looks goofy by default, but you can remove helmets and change colours to make it look a bit more acceptable. Serpent Suit looks stupid to start, but cut off the helm and change it back to a camo scheme and it's fine.

    LeumasWhite on
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    mastertheheromasterthehero Professional Video Editor & Book Author Registered User regular
    I think if they do a balance pass on the DLC rulers, they can be more fun. Moving every turn isn't that fun when some of them have abilities that can go off without you being able to move your units out of harm's way.

    For instance, the viper king was a really easy ruler to fight. The berserker ruler is medium difficulty if he starts chasing down your units. But the Archon ruler? F- that dude.

    I really hope Firaxis is planning on a patch soon because my game is as of today, unplayable due to the crash bug and 2K support hasn't been very helpful. :(

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    CatalaseCatalase Registered User regular
    As someone who's fought the alien rulers in finishing up an existing campaign and not yet played the story mission, the achievement "A forbidden experiment" presumably unlocks after beating that mission?

    "Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination."
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    LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Yes. It's a fun mission, but I wouldn't attempt it with starter weapons.

    And Viper's easy so long as he's out of range for the freeze breath. That's squad-wiped me once when he caught two of my veterans in the same blast. At the least it should only take you out of action for one turn.

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Pfff okay, the rulers are hilariously vulnerable to DOTs... The damage procs on each of THEIR turns. I finally did the snake king mission; I froze him and dropped a Volatile Mix acid grenade on his face. Died in two of my rounds.

    Also, Face Off is hysterical on that mission. At one point I had seven vipers on my screen, and @Morninglord tagged all of them with his mag pistol.

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    SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    Only been playing on Normal (or whatever that is) but I've cleared out all 3 rulers now. The Archon is a real pain. But.. the second time I encountered him, this happened

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    Repeaters are pretty great when they work.

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    D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
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    KafkaAUKafkaAU Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
    I got serial on my ranger last night. I thought that was going to be excellent, but it turns out you can't move and shoot with it even with a move and shoot weapon.

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    Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
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    SorCSorC Registered User regular
    KafkaAU wrote: »
    I got serial on my ranger last night. I thought that was going to be excellent, but it turns out you can't move and shoot with it even with a move and shoot weapon.

    You can, you just have to remember to activate it before you take an action. It's a bit backwards, but that way it works.

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    LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Does Serial refund all actions, or just one? Because I picked it up on my bolt caster-using Specialist, and it'll either be amazing if I can reload or kinda poor if I can't.

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    EtemEtem Registered User regular
    I like the extra challenge introduced by the ruler aliens. I have been playing on commander ironman and some of the missions with the ruler aliens have been exciting as hell.

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    mastertheheromasterthehero Professional Video Editor & Book Author Registered User regular
    Does Serial refund all actions, or just one? Because I picked it up on my bolt caster-using Specialist, and it'll either be amazing if I can reload or kinda poor if I can't.

    Pretty sure it's just one and you can't mod the bolt caster to give you a free reload so I'm not sure that's going to give you the affect you're looking for. (This is all based from memory btw.)

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    LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Yeah, the text says all actions, but I recall it used to just be one. Was wondering if it changed after the Alien Hunters patch. I'll test it out tonight, because chain-shooting dudes with the magnetic bolt caster would be amazing.

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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    Does Serial refund all actions, or just one? Because I picked it up on my bolt caster-using Specialist, and it'll either be amazing if I can reload or kinda poor if I can't.

    Pretty sure it's just one and you can't mod the bolt caster to give you a free reload so I'm not sure that's going to give you the affect you're looking for. (This is all based from memory btw.)
    Yeah, the text says all actions, but I recall it used to just be one. Was wondering if it changed after the Alien Hunters patch. I'll test it out tonight, because chain-shooting dudes with the magnetic bolt caster would be amazing.

    Serial refunds however many actions were used to get the kill. The problem is that a lot of Sharpshooter powers are written in funny ways, assuming you were using the Sniper Rifle for them, and then when you use a Pistol for them or if they get AWC-ed into another class, things get weird. For example, IIRC, Serial has to be activated at the start of the turn; it won't let you activate after moving once.

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    LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Boo, that's weak. May have to offload the caster onto my psionic and go with a proper gun for the specialist.

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    DarkMechaDarkMecha The Outer SpaceRegistered User regular
    The Archer voice pack for this is freaking hilarious.

    Steam Profile | My Art | NID: DarkMecha (SW-4787-9571-8977) | PSN: DarkMecha
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    KafkaAUKafkaAU Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Met the viper king last night. I was not prepared. There's that run in the toilet.

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    Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
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    jclastjclast Registered User regular
    DarkMecha wrote: »
    The Archer voice pack for this is freaking hilarious.

    Well that sounds just like a thing I need for a second playthrough.

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