I feel like he went through enough character development in Daredevil that he could be an antihero protagonist now.
It's not as though antihero protagonists are some strange new thing. I don't think this is a serious concern at all. People sure love their Breaking Bad. They loved Dexter before it got dumb. Very few of the GoT characters are anything even resembling nice people.
People are already used to watching shows with bad people as protagonists. I struggle to see how people can laud a show like Sopranos and then turn around and say "ooh noes, a vigilante who kills people is a step too far, I have to go back to watching my other shows where the protagonists are murderous criminals".
The great parts of the Punisher in DD weren't the bits where he was gunning down mooks from inside a plot invulnerability bubble, though. They were the parts that humanized him or built up his character, or scenes where he was clearly rather vulnerable even if he was also incredibly violent.
I don't think a series focusing on his enemies would work like that.
Even though I would eventually love a Superior Foes of Spider-Man Daredevil series.
Too late, we already got to the outright quite obviously a bad guy bit with Kingpin with almost no wiggle room. He's just not 100% evil, just 90 with 5% variance for any given moment.
I've never been completely sure whether the sword gun was a product of winking self awareness or just aberrant mental processes on the part of the creative team.
I have never thought the punisher works particularly well as a protagonist, at least in 'regular' continuity. To make him sympathetic enough you have to somehow mitigate the fact that he's basically a serial killer, either by giving him a parade of truly irredeemable people to kill (becomes implausible after a while) or by giving him something else to do for long stretches (which can be fine, but also kinda makes him stop being the punisher.)
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Sword gun could come in handy if you were teaming up with a ninja.
Other than that, those are just dumber, bigger bullets.
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Mego Thor"I say thee...NAY!"Registered Userregular
Sword gun seems more suited to Deadpool or Lobo than the Punisher.
I have never thought the punisher works particularly well as a protagonist, at least in 'regular' continuity. To make him sympathetic enough you have to somehow mitigate the fact that he's basically a serial killer, either by giving him a parade of truly irredeemable people to kill (becomes implausible after a while) or by giving him something else to do for long stretches (which can be fine, but also kinda makes him stop being the punisher.)
Nah, they could make it work. They already nailed the "sympathetic antihero" angle. I think the key to his own show would be making it a tragedy. Frank has to juggle his humanity and lingering desire for human connection with his obsession with murdering criminals. You root for him to succeed, but know he's going to fall to the darkness. He ruins whatever chance at happiness he might have, but at least he perforates some evil motherfuckers.
The only real pitfall is if you play him as a straight up hero, but I trust them not to go that way. They weren't afraid to make Matt a charismatic and likeable dumbass who does ethically questionable things and sabotages his own chance for happiness.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
They could go the Marvel Knights route and have him kill demons
he's only made sympathetic in season 2 via his interaction with the protagonist(s), though; you can make him sympathetic as long as his story is being told from the viewpoint of the characters he's bouncing off of (and that can't even be sustained forever, as at the end of season 2.) He could be the protagonist in a revenge tale, but 1) he (and thus the viewer) can't ever reach catharsis and 2) this version has already killed the people who actually wronged him.
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
he's only made sympathetic in season 2 via his interaction with the protagonist(s), though; you can make him sympathetic as long as his story is being told from the viewpoint of the characters he's bouncing off of (and that can't even be sustained forever, as at the end of season 2.) He could be the protagonist in a revenge tale, but 1) he (and thus the viewer) can't ever reach catharsis and 2) this version has already killed the people who actually wronged him.
He'd have someone in his tv series, he always does in the movies and comics.
he's only made sympathetic in season 2 via his interaction with the protagonist(s), though; you can make him sympathetic as long as his story is being told from the viewpoint of the characters he's bouncing off of (and that can't even be sustained forever, as at the end of season 2.) He could be the protagonist in a revenge tale, but 1) he (and thus the viewer) can't ever reach catharsis and 2) this version has already killed the people who actually wronged him.
He'd have someone in his tv series, he always does in the movies and comics.
Of course. And honestly, this is a criticism you could just as easily make of Matt.
He would be pretty unsympathetic if it was just him and the bad guys, with no Foggy, no Karen, no Elektra, no Frank, no Claire...
It would just be him beating the fuck out of people and he would read as a straight psychopath.
Jessica Jones could bounce off her internal monologue! ;D
Internal monologues/voice overs is one thing that translates very poorly into live action. Anything more than occasional use becomes obnoxious or gives a strong 1980's comedy vibe.
Comics use them a lot, and it's great. Does not work in film.
a lot of punisher comics are just interior monologue and shooting dudes; he has never had much of a supporting cast
what makes Murdock sympathetic is seeing his guilt; the supporting cast helps with showing that obviously, but it's still the most relatable part of the character and what makes him sympathetic.
what's relatable about the punisher? It isn't his (nonexistent) desire for human connection. Desire for revenge I suppose, but he got that already. Punisher's an outlet for our need to see retaliation against the people who break society's rules, but that's not really sympathetic if you make a whole character out of it.
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
a lot of punisher comics are just interior monologue and shooting dudes; he has never had much of a supporting cast
what makes Murdock sympathetic is seeing his guilt; the supporting cast helps with showing that obviously, but it's still the most relatable part of the character and what makes him sympathetic.
what's relatable about the punisher? It isn't his (nonexistent) desire for human connection. Desire for revenge I suppose, but he got that already. Punisher's an outlet for our need to see retaliation against the people who break society's rules, but that's not really sympathetic if you make a whole character out of it.
This Punisher is nowhere near as emotionless as the comic book version. It's clear they've exercised their artistic license to adapt the character so there's no reason to assume they would revert to a straight comic book version of the character now.
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Maybe. I hope not.
It's not as though antihero protagonists are some strange new thing. I don't think this is a serious concern at all. People sure love their Breaking Bad. They loved Dexter before it got dumb. Very few of the GoT characters are anything even resembling nice people.
People are already used to watching shows with bad people as protagonists. I struggle to see how people can laud a show like Sopranos and then turn around and say "ooh noes, a vigilante who kills people is a step too far, I have to go back to watching my other shows where the protagonists are murderous criminals".
I don't think a series focusing on his enemies would work like that.
Even though I would eventually love a Superior Foes of Spider-Man Daredevil series.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
It be interesting if Marvel did make a series about a villain like Breaking Bad.
I would love to see a netflix series based on The Kingpin.
I mean, Daredevil season 1 practically was.
Especially if it's some goons "first day"
Maybe don't follow where Garth Ennis eventually took the characters, though.
Mike Rowe
Or I dunno. Luis Guzman.
Wayne Knight.
"Hello, Newman."
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Other than that, those are just dumber, bigger bullets.
Pfft a gun that shoots swords would be way too tame for Deadpool.
Now, a shotgun that shoots rabid hamsters?
Lame.
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Clearly he's saving the second barrel/hamster for someone else.
I mean, it's not like you can get double rabies.
... wait, CAN you get double rabies!?!
Corporate Vampire, was literal, he was fighting a squad of business suit wall street Vampires.
So wacky. Ha ha.
You don't want to take any chances with literal corporate vampires.
Unload with both barrels.
Nah, they could make it work. They already nailed the "sympathetic antihero" angle. I think the key to his own show would be making it a tragedy. Frank has to juggle his humanity and lingering desire for human connection with his obsession with murdering criminals. You root for him to succeed, but know he's going to fall to the darkness. He ruins whatever chance at happiness he might have, but at least he perforates some evil motherfuckers.
The only real pitfall is if you play him as a straight up hero, but I trust them not to go that way. They weren't afraid to make Matt a charismatic and likeable dumbass who does ethically questionable things and sabotages his own chance for happiness.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
He'd have someone in his tv series, he always does in the movies and comics.
Of course. And honestly, this is a criticism you could just as easily make of Matt.
He would be pretty unsympathetic if it was just him and the bad guys, with no Foggy, no Karen, no Elektra, no Frank, no Claire...
It would just be him beating the fuck out of people and he would read as a straight psychopath.
Supporting casts exist for a reason.
Internal monologues/voice overs is one thing that translates very poorly into live action. Anything more than occasional use becomes obnoxious or gives a strong 1980's comedy vibe.
Comics use them a lot, and it's great. Does not work in film.
what makes Murdock sympathetic is seeing his guilt; the supporting cast helps with showing that obviously, but it's still the most relatable part of the character and what makes him sympathetic.
what's relatable about the punisher? It isn't his (nonexistent) desire for human connection. Desire for revenge I suppose, but he got that already. Punisher's an outlet for our need to see retaliation against the people who break society's rules, but that's not really sympathetic if you make a whole character out of it.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
This Punisher is nowhere near as emotionless as the comic book version. It's clear they've exercised their artistic license to adapt the character so there's no reason to assume they would revert to a straight comic book version of the character now.