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Refinishing Stair Bannister - Staining/Sanding Tips?
Figgy
Fighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered User regular
Fighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered User regular
So we have wanted to refinish the banister since moving in last November. We ideally wanted to do it before the new carpet went in, but that wasn't in the cards. So, we started last week after some liberal taping.
- Wife went to town with chemical stripper, then sanding the entire thing
- I went to town with a finishing grit sandpaper, got it all smooth as it possibly could get
- I stained with a dark walnut stain, waited 5 minutes, wiped away. Uh oh, this looks like hot garbage!
- Tonight, I began trying to strip away what I stained last night (I stopped staining after about half)
I'm thinking the strip/sand job by my wife initially wasn't thorough enough, and there was some leftover top coat in spots, causing the stain to look more like sticky paint in many areas.
This time, I'm looking to buy an electric sander to make the job both easier and more effective. My questions:
1) What type of sander would be best? I'm looking at this guy because it looks like it would get into the sides of each spindle, which a regular belt sander would not do. But I'm sort of skeptical that it's just not heavy duty enough to get down to bare wood. Some reviews also mention the paper doesn't really stick to the thing very well. Would this be better? I've been doing it by hand but feel like I'm not getting deep enough into the wood. Starting with an 80 grit, then 100, then 180.
2) Any tips of applying the stain in these tough-to-reach spots? Some of the spindles end in carpet, on the bottom level (like this) and some of them end on a bottom plate, along the upper level (like this). Then, of course, there is the underside of the actual hand rail part where you need to work around the spindles and oh-god-what-have-I-gotten-myself-into. I'm mainly concerned that I'll be overlapping stain layers here. Should I tape off parts of the railing and work bit by bit? For example, do the spindles all first with the rails taped off, then when that dries swap it? Or should I not be too worried about overlapping? How crucial is it that each part is wiped at the exact same time period?
3) When I stained last night I used some socks to apply and some cotton t-shirts to wipe away. I'm hoping it was truly just a leftover topcoat issue that created this mess. But could I just not be applying properly? I feel like the stain never really wiped away consistently--it almost looks like thick paint in some areas. To be clear, this was not a gel stain. Is there a better way? Should I be using a brush or foam brush instead?
I'm also hoping beyond hope that I won't find surprise stain on the new carpet once I pull away all the layers of tape/plastic/drop cloth that is down.
- Wife went to town with chemical stripper, then sanding the entire thing
- I went to town with a finishing grit sandpaper, got it all smooth as it possibly could get
- I stained with a dark walnut stain, waited 5 minutes, wiped away. Uh oh, this looks like hot garbage!
- Tonight, I began trying to strip away what I stained last night (I stopped staining after about half)
I'm thinking the strip/sand job by my wife initially wasn't thorough enough, and there was some leftover top coat in spots, causing the stain to look more like sticky paint in many areas.
This time, I'm looking to buy an electric sander to make the job both easier and more effective. My questions:
1) What type of sander would be best? I'm looking at this guy because it looks like it would get into the sides of each spindle, which a regular belt sander would not do. But I'm sort of skeptical that it's just not heavy duty enough to get down to bare wood. Some reviews also mention the paper doesn't really stick to the thing very well. Would this be better? I've been doing it by hand but feel like I'm not getting deep enough into the wood. Starting with an 80 grit, then 100, then 180.
2) Any tips of applying the stain in these tough-to-reach spots? Some of the spindles end in carpet, on the bottom level (like this) and some of them end on a bottom plate, along the upper level (like this). Then, of course, there is the underside of the actual hand rail part where you need to work around the spindles and oh-god-what-have-I-gotten-myself-into. I'm mainly concerned that I'll be overlapping stain layers here. Should I tape off parts of the railing and work bit by bit? For example, do the spindles all first with the rails taped off, then when that dries swap it? Or should I not be too worried about overlapping? How crucial is it that each part is wiped at the exact same time period?
3) When I stained last night I used some socks to apply and some cotton t-shirts to wipe away. I'm hoping it was truly just a leftover topcoat issue that created this mess. But could I just not be applying properly? I feel like the stain never really wiped away consistently--it almost looks like thick paint in some areas. To be clear, this was not a gel stain. Is there a better way? Should I be using a brush or foam brush instead?
I'm also hoping beyond hope that I won't find surprise stain on the new carpet once I pull away all the layers of tape/plastic/drop cloth that is down.
Figgy on
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First. Use the chemical stripper and dip some fine steel wool in the stripper to get the hard to reach areas. Then use the sandpaper to smooth it down and clean up the wood.
Second. Make sure you let the surfaces dry for a day or two so the you're not applying the stain over the stripper.
Did you use any pore filler or sanding sealer?
I'd recommend taping off the sections and staining them. Just stain them all before doing anything else.
Are you using a stain varnish or a pigment stain? It sounds like you're using a pigment stain (where you'll need to varnish the surface after it's stained.) Use a foam brush and you can use a clean cloth with a tiny bit of mineral spirits to take off any excess.
Let the stain dry, clean up the surface with 000 steel wool or 220 grit sandpaper, clean up the surface with a tack cloth and apply a second coat if you want a darker finish.
Then the varnish will be a similar process. It's always better to do thinner coats and more coats of varnish then trying to do a heavy coat.
The sock might not be ideal either, you want a smooth cloth, socks will just make it look splotchy (tiny little droplets everywhere) I think.
Generally you want to remove the banister and strip/stain that shit outside too.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-M18-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Cordless-Multi-Tool-Bare-Tool-2626-20/204463218
they are great to have around and you can move the head attachment around to better reach stuff.
this also has the benefit of fitting different heads to do different tasks like doing wood plunge cuts or tile saw
Regardless of what you can afford or how much time you put in, remember
a bannister always pays it's debts.
I grabbed some grittier paper, too, and then some 220.
My plan now after reading through the thread:
- Continue to chemical strip what I can
- Go over with fine steel wool dipped in stripper
- 80 or 100 grit paper on the Mouse sander to get what the chemical stripper can't remove, until the wood is bare and clean
- 160 grit to smooth
- 220 to finish (likely by hand, but I do have some paper for the Mouse sander for trickier parts)
- Wipe down with mild soapy water
- vacuum
- wipe down with tack cloth
Removing it is pretty much out of the question. I'd break most of the spindles getting them out (and pay about $15 each to replace), and then I'm left with possible carpet lifting issues getting new spindles in to replace.
I'm using Varathane oil-based stain and then will finish with the same brand clear finish. I've got some 600 grit wet sand paper to use for touch ups if needed.
So yeah, hoping the electric sander makes the stripping/sanding process more bearable. I'm aiming to have it all clean and fresh, ready for stain, by the end of this Friday. I'll probably wait to stain it until Monday. Gotta get the baby out of the house for that process.
I didn't use any pore filler. Didn't think it was necessary? I'm assuming this wood is all oak (It looks like typical builder stuff).
I'm also not looking forward to the round part of the spindles.
But it's coming along. I'll post pics tomorrow, when I hope to have the upper level fully sanded.
I definitely don't mind a bit of imperfection.
I have a question on stain application. I'm always seeing "apply liberally" then "wipe excess". Would it make more sense to apply light coats? And when wiping away, how much pressure should I be using?
Am I just trying to stop the stain from pooling in areas of the wood when I wipe, or should I be applying pressure to really remove all the wet stain and only leave behind whatever pigment remains? I feel like the latter method is a recipe for an uneven finish. I figure it makes more sense to just make sure I'm applying consistently (and lightly) to begin with, so there isn't much to wipe away?
The mouse sander is great, but I've pretty much destroyed the little detail attachment by now--the "velcro" part at the tip of it has worn right down from shoving it into the corners where the spindles meet the railing. I've got the rail, base and flat parts of the spindles pretty much down to raw wood. Just need to do finishing sanding on those. We are going to borrow a couple tools from a family member--a dremel and some other thing he said might work--just to do the little ornamental pieces and row part of the spindles. I feel like the stripping chemical isn't doing much there (just takes off a bit of the stain) and going at it manually with sandpaper just ruins the paper and makes an enormous mess.
After my huge 8-hour sanding stint the other day, it took about 2 hours just to wipe down the hallway. I had the rooms, lower level, and carpet blocked off with plastic. When I go back at it, I'm just going to create a sort of plastic sheet tunnel around the railing so I can crawl in there and go to town without getting the walls covered again. It wasn't even just saw dust, the dust from sanding off the stain is like a black, tacky layer on whatever it lands on.
But good news is, I took off the initial tape treatment off the carpet and it's 99% fine. You can see some stained bits along the very edge, where it meets the "base plate" of the railing upstairs, but you have to get right down there to see it, and probably still only because right now it's up against bright, raw wood. Once it's all stained it won't be noticeable.
Should I have any qualms about pulling back there carpet there, this time? It's a nylon carpet with tack strips along that area. I figure I can pull it gently back and tape around and under it, so that there's no way stain can get in. I'm just concerned I'll make it less "sturdy" when I try to push it back down onto the tacks after. Especially when I get to staining the spindles on the stairs themselves that end right into the carpet. The carpet is kind of cut and tacked/stapled(?) down around it and I'm afraid to mess up that treatment and have it come up down the road.