Pro side: you don't have to pay any fees and in fact you get paid an appearance fee if you get on one of those shows, win or lose.
Down side: Probably takes even longer than small claims since you have to be flown to the studio, they probably won't take your case, and you have to be on TV.
Also it would most likely benefit the model's career.
Pro side: you don't have to pay any fees and in fact you get paid an appearance fee if you get on one of those shows, win or lose.
Down side: Probably takes even longer than small claims since you have to be flown to the studio, they probably won't take your case, and you have to be on TV.
Also it would most likely benefit the model's career.
Granted, and you'd also have to put up with her getting an appearance fee as well. I was just throwing it out there as a possibility (especially since it would save on fees and it's definitely a case where no lawyer is required). I've been curious what the back end of those shows looks like, that's why I thought of it.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
you're not going to spend hours and hours in small claims court
My sister took one of her clients to small claims over a $500 short, she sat in court two separate days waiting for her instance in queue. First day was a full 8 hours but they didn't get her case, second day she still waited about 2 hours before being brought in for a 20 minute decision.
It depends upon the size and population of your county and how many cases are on the docket.
You should probably just drop it and move on. It sounds like you want revenge more than justice. And that's not a good reason to do anything IMO.
I think a few of you are projecting or reading more into this than what is here.
It's pretty simple:
1. I paid for a service, the terms of which were mutually agreed upon in a professional context.
2. The service was not rendered.
3. There is every indication that one party has no intention of rendering said service.
4. I would like the money back or, barring that, for the payment to be stopped.
Not revenge. Not vindictive. Not weird.
Professional.
...Well, I don't agree that it's vindictive or weird (she stole your money, you don't think she should have your stolen money; makes sense to me), but I don't think this is a professional matter either. A business approach would be a cost vs benefits analysis: what will the likely expense(s) be for recovering the money, what will your business gain from it?
Deciding that it's a moral matter of principle to deny her the stolen money brings this issue to much more personal level, IMHO. Your business & professional standing will not likely see any returns from it (which doesn't mean I think you're wrong to take your position, just that I think you may be better off by acknowledging this is something you want for your personal values rather than something you want as a professional photographer).
Given what you've said about this interaction both here & in [chat] (I don't recall the specifics, but I do recall you saying over and over that this person made you uncomfortable & demonstrated an ability to logjam parts of your life & livelihood), if it were me, I'd not try to chase this person down. Someone depraved enough to feign a leg injury and invoke Christmas goodwill as a strategy for stealing hundreds of dollars is Trouble, and usually such people have far less to lose than you do & are far better than you might guess at further dicking-over their marks the longer they have access to them.
If you've got the time to go for small claims, go for it. I was ready to take my landlord to the mat over $40 at one point, mostly because i knew i had much more free time than he did (he was a med student moving into the clinical phase and was spending the majority of his time in hospitals) and was using the threat of time-consuming legal action to get him to back off (it did end up working out, i didn't get all of my deposit back but he agreed to only take out the amount of utilities i was on the hook for, which is what i had intended to pay). If you think they're unlikely to show, the possibility of a default judgement is worthwhile, even if you don't get the money back, now they've got a court shadow hanging over them and a paper trail that extends into the legal system if they ever try to pull something like this on someone else in the future.
Lawyer definitely not worth it, small claims probably is if you have time on your hands right now.
Ha ha, I totally would, but only because I'm incredibly cheap. Apperance fee whether I win or lose, plus free vacation in LA (or wherever they shoot), plus if I win I'm guaranteed the money (since the production actually pays the money, it doesn't even matter if your defendant is flat broke).
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
So, a couple of days ago, the model posted a picture on Instagram and tagged herself as being in Seoul. While she was still responding to me, she told me she was moving to Asia "soon" and that we should shoot before that happens. She responded once more after that saying that her plans changed and that she would be moving later than expected and we had more time to shoot together.
After that is when it became a game of cat and mouse where the mouse never texts the cat back or answers the cat's phone calls.
So now she's posting that she's in Asia. Whether or not this is even true (the photo is of her sitting at a piano - location is indeterminate except for her tags), I think I give up. Either she's telling the truth and is out of reach or she is a liar and I've decided it's worth $300 not to ever deal with her again in any capacity.
The only other thing I can do is put a public message on my ModelMayhem portfolio warning other would-be clients of hers from working with her in the future, kind of a passive blacklisting, but I've never really been comfortable with that and I don't even want to acknowledge her existence anymore so I probably won't even do that.
In the end, I'm left with "fuck her" and moving on. I'm pretty fucking pissed, though, and I won't be engaging in this kind of business arrangement anymore.
So, a couple of days ago, the model posted a picture on Instagram and tagged herself as being in Seoul. While she was still responding to me, she told me she was moving to Asia "soon" and that we should shoot before that happens. She responded once more after that saying that her plans changed and that she would be moving later than expected and we had more time to shoot together.
After that is when it became a game of cat and mouse where the mouse never texts the cat back or answers the cat's phone calls.
So now she's posting that she's in Asia. Whether or not this is even true (the photo is of her sitting at a piano - location is indeterminate except for her tags), I think I give up. Either she's telling the truth and is out of reach or she is a liar and I've decided it's worth $300 not to ever deal with her again in any capacity.
The only other thing I can do is put a public message on my ModelMayhem portfolio warning other would-be clients of hers from working with her in the future, kind of a passive blacklisting, but I've never really been comfortable with that and I don't even want to acknowledge her existence anymore so I probably won't even do that.
In the end, I'm left with "fuck her" and moving on. I'm pretty fucking pissed, though, and I won't be engaging in this kind of business arrangement anymore.
I would do that. save some other guy from losing $300.
She told me in December that she was "switching agents" because she "hated her agent" for pressuring her into trying to renegotiate with me, after I told her I wasn't comfortable with her attempts to incrementally renegotiate and price gouge me. According to her, that all came from her agent.
Yeah, so many red flags she could have created an Olympic slalom course. I am so naïve.
I once gave decent consideration to taking someone to court over twenty pounds (roughly 35 dollars). I can understand why you want to do it. I was incredibly angry, and wanted to fuck the guy up. Running an independent business is tough, and there's an emotional side to it even if you don't need the money (I did).
I'd still recommend you don't do it unless that money is desperately needed. The opportunity cost you're paying in terms of time and emotional investment isn't worth it. You'll spend months thinking about this shit, filing papers, showing up to court and whatever.
Obviously she's a flake and kind of a grifter. There's no defence for essentially stealing money from you. It still probably isn't worth your time and effort to get that money back.
I once gave decent consideration to taking someone to court over twenty pounds (roughly 35 dollars). I can understand why you want to do it. I was incredibly angry, and wanted to fuck the guy up. Running an independent business is tough, and there's an emotional side to it even if you don't need the money (I did).
I'd still recommend you don't do it unless that money is desperately needed. The opportunity cost you're paying in terms of time and emotional investment isn't worth it. You'll spend months thinking about this shit, filing papers, showing up to court and whatever.
Obviously she's a flake and kind of a grifter. There's no defence for essentially stealing money from you. It still probably isn't worth your time and effort to get that money back.
Thanks, and yes, I agree - I think that's what I've finally settled on here: that it's worth more to my time/sanity to just give up on this.
If it makes you feel better, every business I've ever been involved with has had this happen at some point. Everyone, sooner or later, has to write something off as a bad debt or has a customer who won't pay.
If it makes you feel better, every business I've ever been involved with has had this happen at some point. Everyone, sooner or later, has to write something off as a bad debt or has a customer who won't pay.
So, a couple of days ago, the model posted a picture on Instagram and tagged herself as being in Seoul. While she was still responding to me, she told me she was moving to Asia "soon" and that we should shoot before that happens. She responded once more after that saying that her plans changed and that she would be moving later than expected and we had more time to shoot together.
After that is when it became a game of cat and mouse where the mouse never texts the cat back or answers the cat's phone calls.
So now she's posting that she's in Asia. Whether or not this is even true (the photo is of her sitting at a piano - location is indeterminate except for her tags), I think I give up. Either she's telling the truth and is out of reach or she is a liar and I've decided it's worth $300 not to ever deal with her again in any capacity.
The only other thing I can do is put a public message on my ModelMayhem portfolio warning other would-be clients of hers from working with her in the future, kind of a passive blacklisting, but I've never really been comfortable with that and I don't even want to acknowledge her existence anymore so I probably won't even do that.
In the end, I'm left with "fuck her" and moving on. I'm pretty fucking pissed, though, and I won't be engaging in this kind of business arrangement anymore.
For what it's worth, IMHO this is absolutely the right call to make.
Very sorry this happened. Don't think you were too naïve or not hard nosed enough, either; there are (usually) lessons to learn from in situations like this, but a good thief / con knows how to get people.
Posts
Also it would most likely benefit the model's career.
However I think your best move is to just drop it. Way more trouble than it is worth.
Granted, and you'd also have to put up with her getting an appearance fee as well. I was just throwing it out there as a possibility (especially since it would save on fees and it's definitely a case where no lawyer is required). I've been curious what the back end of those shows looks like, that's why I thought of it.
You can't really know this. Court can operate quite differently from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
Drez should look into the small claims court where he is to find out more about the process and whether it would be worth it to him.
I would never go on one of those TV shows, ugh.
My sister took one of her clients to small claims over a $500 short, she sat in court two separate days waiting for her instance in queue. First day was a full 8 hours but they didn't get her case, second day she still waited about 2 hours before being brought in for a 20 minute decision.
It depends upon the size and population of your county and how many cases are on the docket.
...Well, I don't agree that it's vindictive or weird (she stole your money, you don't think she should have your stolen money; makes sense to me), but I don't think this is a professional matter either. A business approach would be a cost vs benefits analysis: what will the likely expense(s) be for recovering the money, what will your business gain from it?
Deciding that it's a moral matter of principle to deny her the stolen money brings this issue to much more personal level, IMHO. Your business & professional standing will not likely see any returns from it (which doesn't mean I think you're wrong to take your position, just that I think you may be better off by acknowledging this is something you want for your personal values rather than something you want as a professional photographer).
Given what you've said about this interaction both here & in [chat] (I don't recall the specifics, but I do recall you saying over and over that this person made you uncomfortable & demonstrated an ability to logjam parts of your life & livelihood), if it were me, I'd not try to chase this person down. Someone depraved enough to feign a leg injury and invoke Christmas goodwill as a strategy for stealing hundreds of dollars is Trouble, and usually such people have far less to lose than you do & are far better than you might guess at further dicking-over their marks the longer they have access to them.
Lawyer definitely not worth it, small claims probably is if you have time on your hands right now.
Do you have her agents contact info?
Ha ha, I totally would, but only because I'm incredibly cheap. Apperance fee whether I win or lose, plus free vacation in LA (or wherever they shoot), plus if I win I'm guaranteed the money (since the production actually pays the money, it doesn't even matter if your defendant is flat broke).
After that is when it became a game of cat and mouse where the mouse never texts the cat back or answers the cat's phone calls.
So now she's posting that she's in Asia. Whether or not this is even true (the photo is of her sitting at a piano - location is indeterminate except for her tags), I think I give up. Either she's telling the truth and is out of reach or she is a liar and I've decided it's worth $300 not to ever deal with her again in any capacity.
The only other thing I can do is put a public message on my ModelMayhem portfolio warning other would-be clients of hers from working with her in the future, kind of a passive blacklisting, but I've never really been comfortable with that and I don't even want to acknowledge her existence anymore so I probably won't even do that.
In the end, I'm left with "fuck her" and moving on. I'm pretty fucking pissed, though, and I won't be engaging in this kind of business arrangement anymore.
I would do that. save some other guy from losing $300.
Giving things reviews is p standard. Telling people on ebay that you didn't get your stuff, et c.
Or have you just tried several times to reschedule with no response?
Might be more beneficial to send something like this to her agent as they are probably more likely to take it seriously.
If she's switched continents it is likely her agent is no longer her agent.
Yeah, so many red flags she could have created an Olympic slalom course. I am so naïve.
I'd still recommend you don't do it unless that money is desperately needed. The opportunity cost you're paying in terms of time and emotional investment isn't worth it. You'll spend months thinking about this shit, filing papers, showing up to court and whatever.
Obviously she's a flake and kind of a grifter. There's no defence for essentially stealing money from you. It still probably isn't worth your time and effort to get that money back.
Thanks, and yes, I agree - I think that's what I've finally settled on here: that it's worth more to my time/sanity to just give up on this.
Thanks... In some way, it does.
For what it's worth, IMHO this is absolutely the right call to make.
Very sorry this happened. Don't think you were too naïve or not hard nosed enough, either; there are (usually) lessons to learn from in situations like this, but a good thief / con knows how to get people.