That makes sense. Champion.gg also shows the champ's win rate as ranging from baaaaaaad as a mid laner to worst in the entire game as a jungler, so obviously the champ has issues.
IMO, champs that have special gank paths they can take to avoid wards and stuff are usually going to be broken if their numbers are high, so it'll be interesting to see what they do since he obviously has some big time problems.
Honestly his special ganks are still slow, able to be disabled at range and dodgable. Even if he was top of the jungle pool he still wouldn't be another Zac.
That makes sense. Champion.gg also shows the champ's win rate as ranging from baaaaaaad as a mid laner to worst in the entire game as a jungler, so obviously the champ has issues.
IMO, champs that have special gank paths they can take to avoid wards and stuff are usually going to be broken if their numbers are high, so it'll be interesting to see what they do since he obviously has some big time problems.
This guy plays very uniquely though, so I'd wait until people get some practice with him before worrying about his winrate numbers. Perhaps we'll discover that he's only good into certain midlane matchups, and really needs to not be first-picked, or that actually he's totally great when played by a practiced player or with a certain build path, etc. Or maybe his numbers do need tuning.
So far he's actually been pretty good in my silver games. Kinda useful to have a dude who just does damage by standing there twiddling his thumbs. But then again, any game that I am in has peel for carries and generally at least one support gank on mid between lvls 3 and 7, so perhaps that's part of what's making him effective.
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Red Raevynbecause I only take Bubble BathsRegistered Userregular
If I know exactly where a low-health Teemo has stealthed but I don't have a pink ward on me, I can still damage him with skill shots/ground target spells, right? (such as Ahri's orb or Morgana's tormented soil) What about something like Ahri's charm or Morgana's binding, will they hit? I'm assuming Ahri's fox-fire and ult don't hit because I don't have vision (unless charming him not in a bush would make him walk and break it stealth?).
If I know exactly where a low-health Teemo has stealthed but I don't have a pink ward on me, I can still damage him with skill shots/ground target spells, right? (such as Ahri's orb or Morgana's tormented soil) What about something like Ahri's charm or Morgana's binding, will they hit? I'm assuming Ahri's fox-fire and ult don't hit because I don't have vision (unless charming him not in a bush would make him walk and break it stealth?).
You can absolutely hit him with skillshots and ground-targeted spells.
Oh, wow, I thought skillshots would reveal stealthed champions, but check out these weird interactions as comprehensively detailed on http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Stealth
Technically Dark Binding doesn't reveal the champion (it just traps them but they stay invisible if they don't break stealth). And Soul Shackles does reveal the champion?? Weird weird weird.
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Red Raevynbecause I only take Bubble BathsRegistered Userregular
Oh duh, I should have checked that page; it says at the bottom that things which make him move break Teemo out. I tried the charm once when I saw him stealth in mid lane, but a minion stepped into the charm just before it hit where he was stealthed >_< The rest of the game he was trying it in the bot lane bush outside second turret. A few times I just pink warded it and obliterated him, the rest I threw Qs in at max range until he chickened out and ran (sometimes catching him with a charm when he did haha). Good to know what will work and what won't, thanks!
Was that our game? He did that to me in toplane when I was Irelia and I had no ult available at the time so I couldn't do anything. Does he break stealth if he attacks?
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
Any action breaks stealth, barring a few exceptions like Shaco dropping a box or Twitch activating his ult. Any displacement effect reveals Teemo. Even an allied Anivia or Trundle should be able to break him out of stealth by forcefully moving him.
If I know exactly where a low-health Teemo has stealthed but I don't have a pink ward on me, I can still damage him with skill shots/ground target spells, right? (such as Ahri's orb or Morgana's tormented soil) What about something like Ahri's charm or Morgana's binding, will they hit? I'm assuming Ahri's fox-fire and ult don't hit because I don't have vision (unless charming him not in a bush would make him walk and break it stealth?).
You can absolutely hit him with skillshots and ground-targeted spells.
Oh, wow, I thought skillshots would reveal stealthed champions, but check out these weird interactions as comprehensively detailed on http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Stealth
Technically Dark Binding doesn't reveal the champion (it just traps them but they stay invisible if they don't break stealth). And Soul Shackles does reveal the champion?? Weird weird weird.
Soul Shackles doesn't "reveal" the champion but you know right where they are always because you can see the shackle end at their model(which is invisible).
Its the same thing as you used to be able to do with Viktor ult (track enemies in bushes/invisible enemies) by following the lightning lines.
Yeah, Aurelion Sol seems really bad. His kit doesn't really allow you to do anything interesting at all. Would be nice if we could toggle the passive, too, so at least he's not always pushing lane.
He's really mana hungry if he's trying to do anything too.
I think he needs to have a third mode on W - draw the stars in and regenerate mana (at half the cost of expanded). Remove the cooldown on toggle, too. I mean, seriously.
His sole redeeming feature is that he currently has the largest AoE CC in the game (see my screenshot above - and I was able to keep going to under enemy turret with it... and then got jumped and destroyed, but the game was so lost at that point I just wanted to see how big it could get).
Conceptually, his Q, W, and E all feel really cool. But E has the cooldown of an ultimate and only does anything while out of combat (for a while), which is just BAD. R is dull and boring and has WAY too long a cooldown.
Does he work in bot, with a support to peel for him? He kind of looks like they were going for apc with him.
APC's go mid because Ability focused champions tend to have better level than item scaling. (and AP champions especially) and not because AD's need supports to peel for them. Supports go with AD's for much the same reason. They would leech too much from junglers, and tops have more level scaling.
Yeah, sorry. I meant that more as an "apc" than actual apc. Should have put it in quotes.
Aurelion Sol does not have AP scaling on his auto attacks, so he wouldn't be an "APC" in quotes either
I mean his passive functions kind of similarly to auto attacks, in that it is damage that happens regardless of cooldowns. It could have something like APC scaling if they make the rotation speed scale somehow.
Make the rotation scale on aspeed, so at 2.5 he's a walking halo.
Then there'd be no way to get through his ring once he had Rylais without a blink. Not terrible conducive to good gameplay
Have the damage also scale via aspd, without actually speeding up the orbs.
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Red Raevynbecause I only take Bubble BathsRegistered Userregular
Was that our game? He did that to me in toplane when I was Irelia and I had no ult available at the time so I couldn't do anything. Does he break stealth if he attacks?
Yeah. Teemo also gets a big attack speed boost if he attacks from camoflauge. He and Zed were queued together and kept trying to do cool-guy sick-outplays, but they were really obvious about it and I got a lot of my kills just poking them to death while they waited for me to take their bait.
If I know exactly where a low-health Teemo has stealthed but I don't have a pink ward on me, I can still damage him with skill shots/ground target spells, right? (such as Ahri's orb or Morgana's tormented soil) What about something like Ahri's charm or Morgana's binding, will they hit? I'm assuming Ahri's fox-fire and ult don't hit because I don't have vision (unless charming him not in a bush would make him walk and break it stealth?).
You can absolutely hit him with skillshots and ground-targeted spells.
Oh, wow, I thought skillshots would reveal stealthed champions, but check out these weird interactions as comprehensively detailed on http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Stealth
Technically Dark Binding doesn't reveal the champion (it just traps them but they stay invisible if they don't break stealth). And Soul Shackles does reveal the champion?? Weird weird weird.
Soul Shackles doesn't "reveal" the champion but you know right where they are always because you can see the shackle end at their model(which is invisible).
Its the same thing as you used to be able to do with Viktor ult (track enemies in bushes/invisible enemies) by following the lightning lines.
Wiki claims otherwise with regards to soul shackles (and also says that Morgana Q does *not* reveal invisibility, just, you know, makes a column of purple where the invisible guy is). I couldn't vouch for the accuracy of the site, but it seems pretty well-curated.
I revved this game up for the first time in over a year. I have no idea what is going on with this map, or any of these new champs. It's nice that Singed got a visual update though.
The tethers on Morg ult do in fact grant true sight of stealthed targets for the duration of the tethers so they can be targeted by others, but they're not revealed in permanent terms. Once the stun hits a stealth unit would go back to being unseen.
Oh oh! The first part of TF's ult would reveal Teemo right?
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
Two losses tonight. First one was on me cause I misplayed lane/shouldn't have picked Nami against their team. Second one, Lucian and I were just killing Graves/Leona at will, 7 kills between us, but it did not matter because 0-5 Riven decided to troll (afk in fountain, afk at tower, then just run into fights to die.) And midlane was also ~0-4 or thereabouts, and jg was pretty bad (and their money was all on Renekton and Master Yi) so we just couldn't carry alone and had to surrender. So frustrating. I mean, maybe we could have eventually recovered and scaled since we had a good teamcomp? But only if all 5 players were on board, and Riven was the first legit troll I've had in a while.
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Liquid GhostDO YOU HEAR THE VOICES, TOO?!Registered Userregular
If I know exactly where a low-health Teemo has stealthed but I don't have a pink ward on me, I can still damage him with skill shots/ground target spells, right? (such as Ahri's orb or Morgana's tormented soil) What about something like Ahri's charm or Morgana's binding, will they hit? I'm assuming Ahri's fox-fire and ult don't hit because I don't have vision (unless charming him not in a bush would make him walk and break it stealth?).
I think my favorite Teemo kill was just /dancing on his spot with Sunfire cape on as Garen and waiting him out.
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
Why is the login screen playing Mass Effect music? Who is this dragon? Why did I roll Teemo twice in a row on Murderbridge?
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Red Raevynbecause I only take Bubble BathsRegistered Userregular
Two losses tonight. First one was on me cause I misplayed lane/shouldn't have picked Nami against their team. Second one, Lucian and I were just killing Graves/Leona at will, 7 kills between us, but it did not matter because 0-5 Riven decided to troll (afk in fountain, afk at tower, then just run into fights to die.) And midlane was also ~0-4 or thereabouts, and jg was pretty bad (and their money was all on Renekton and Master Yi) so we just couldn't carry alone and had to surrender. So frustrating. I mean, maybe we could have eventually recovered and scaled since we had a good teamcomp? But only if all 5 players were on board, and Riven was the first legit troll I've had in a while.
I had a really disheartening loss yesterday too. Enemy comp was bizarro (Teemo, Yi, Kalista, Jinx, Zilean) and I had to face hippity-hoppity Kalista mid as Ahri. I was worried I wouldn't be able to land a skill shot, and all she needs to proc thunderlords is one auto attack (then stupid rend). Right after she chunks me hard and I say "this is going to suck," she accidentally dances into turret range and gives me first blood. From there everything is going great, up 3k gold at 16 minutes and the team is clicking... then Mundo disconnects. Suddenly we have no front line and they have 4 turret destroying attack speed machines. It went downhill very fast.
How useful is Twitch's stealth in lane phase? That feels like the most interesting part of his kit.
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
How useful is Twitch's stealth in lane phase? That feels like the most interesting part of his kit.
As a not adc main, i view it as a major strength. The fact that any time he backs he could head to another lane and gank is a major plus. It also lets him position safer on the way back to his own lane, plus the attack speed boost.
I don't think you max it first. But I don't know the correct path for any adc other than Ez.
How useful is Twitch's stealth in lane phase? That feels like the most interesting part of his kit.
In Silver, Twitch's stealth seems mainly used, during laning phase, to
1. catch the enemies unaware when coming back from b (as in, Twitch went B, and unexpectedly flanks his opponents when he gets back to lane)
2. escape during a protracted gank/2v2/bot lane clusterfuck if not locked down
I do not ever see Twitch ganks on mid, not to say that they couldn't happen. But then again, if I see a Twitch on the enemy team I tend to shut him down so hard he never becomes a thing. He's very vulnerable to an aggressive support. And if the Twitch is on my team, I'm going mid with him, thus negating the stealth benefit.
Looks like he has a high winrate and low playrate in plat+. In my elo he feels weak, but that is subjective and not supported by data. It's possible he has a high-ish winrate because the only people who play Twitch are Twitch enthusiasts, rather than because of any inherent strength in his kit? Hard to say.
So i posed a thing which might be interesting to stats nerds or people interested in MMR in general. Its not very technical and written entirely in words and not equations.
Actually won lane and later on game vs a Renekton playing as Maokai. That was surprising.
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
Played some mixed mmr normals tonight (plat-silver 4-queue) as support Zyra. Hahahahaha, man, support Zyra is amazing. I even played her into the extremely anti-Zyra lane of Brand/Jhin and still won despite the constant threat to my tiny pool of HP.
I think with a bit more practice I'd be able to land her root more, too. But I think she's totally ready for me to play her ranked right now.
Do you guys max E or Q? And take E lvl 1, usually?
Played some mixed mmr normals tonight (plat-silver 4-queue) as support Zyra. Hahahahaha, man, support Zyra is amazing. I even played her into the extremely anti-Zyra lane of Brand/Jhin and still won despite the constant threat to my tiny pool of HP.
I think with a bit more practice I'd be able to land her root more, too. But I think she's totally ready for me to play her ranked right now.
Do you guys max E or Q? And take E lvl 1, usually?
definitely Q at 1, it does more damage, has a shorter cd, and the root duration at rank 1 of E is pitiful
I'm assuming you max q as well but I don't really play her
Jungle assassin Twitch? This youtube video just made it look legit. I mean they literally don't see the ganks coming without pinks.
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
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IMO, champs that have special gank paths they can take to avoid wards and stuff are usually going to be broken if their numbers are high, so it'll be interesting to see what they do since he obviously has some big time problems.
This guy plays very uniquely though, so I'd wait until people get some practice with him before worrying about his winrate numbers. Perhaps we'll discover that he's only good into certain midlane matchups, and really needs to not be first-picked, or that actually he's totally great when played by a practiced player or with a certain build path, etc. Or maybe his numbers do need tuning.
So far he's actually been pretty good in my silver games. Kinda useful to have a dude who just does damage by standing there twiddling his thumbs. But then again, any game that I am in has peel for carries and generally at least one support gank on mid between lvls 3 and 7, so perhaps that's part of what's making him effective.
You can absolutely hit him with skillshots and ground-targeted spells.
Oh, wow, I thought skillshots would reveal stealthed champions, but check out these weird interactions as comprehensively detailed on http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Stealth
Technically Dark Binding doesn't reveal the champion (it just traps them but they stay invisible if they don't break stealth). And Soul Shackles does reveal the champion?? Weird weird weird.
Soul Shackles doesn't "reveal" the champion but you know right where they are always because you can see the shackle end at their model(which is invisible).
Its the same thing as you used to be able to do with Viktor ult (track enemies in bushes/invisible enemies) by following the lightning lines.
My first game, enemy jungler eats my team alive by himself and admits during chat that he is smurfing. They win 35 - 6.
AAARRRRGGGHHHHH
Have the damage also scale via aspd, without actually speeding up the orbs.
Yeah. Teemo also gets a big attack speed boost if he attacks from camoflauge. He and Zed were queued together and kept trying to do cool-guy sick-outplays, but they were really obvious about it and I got a lot of my kills just poking them to death while they waited for me to take their bait.
Wiki claims otherwise with regards to soul shackles (and also says that Morgana Q does *not* reveal invisibility, just, you know, makes a column of purple where the invisible guy is). I couldn't vouch for the accuracy of the site, but it seems pretty well-curated.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
edit: anyone want a chuckle?
alrighty then
here goes nothing
i just did a bunch of that
I think my favorite Teemo kill was just /dancing on his spot with Sunfire cape on as Garen and waiting him out.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
I had a really disheartening loss yesterday too. Enemy comp was bizarro (Teemo, Yi, Kalista, Jinx, Zilean) and I had to face hippity-hoppity Kalista mid as Ahri. I was worried I wouldn't be able to land a skill shot, and all she needs to proc thunderlords is one auto attack (then stupid rend). Right after she chunks me hard and I say "this is going to suck," she accidentally dances into turret range and gives me first blood. From there everything is going great, up 3k gold at 16 minutes and the team is clicking... then Mundo disconnects. Suddenly we have no front line and they have 4 turret destroying attack speed machines. It went downhill very fast.
edit: not to say i haven't benefited from it.
As a not adc main, i view it as a major strength. The fact that any time he backs he could head to another lane and gank is a major plus. It also lets him position safer on the way back to his own lane, plus the attack speed boost.
I don't think you max it first. But I don't know the correct path for any adc other than Ez.
I think on Twitch you go (R >) E > Q > W.
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
In Silver, Twitch's stealth seems mainly used, during laning phase, to
1. catch the enemies unaware when coming back from b (as in, Twitch went B, and unexpectedly flanks his opponents when he gets back to lane)
2. escape during a protracted gank/2v2/bot lane clusterfuck if not locked down
I do not ever see Twitch ganks on mid, not to say that they couldn't happen. But then again, if I see a Twitch on the enemy team I tend to shut him down so hard he never becomes a thing. He's very vulnerable to an aggressive support. And if the Twitch is on my team, I'm going mid with him, thus negating the stealth benefit.
Looks like he has a high winrate and low playrate in plat+. In my elo he feels weak, but that is subjective and not supported by data. It's possible he has a high-ish winrate because the only people who play Twitch are Twitch enthusiasts, rather than because of any inherent strength in his kit? Hard to say.
http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/WrKEJ5Yb-dynamic-queue-mmr-effects
The TL/DR is that dynamic queue breaks MMR in favor of teams and also adds additional variance into MMR (IIRC makes games more one sided)
The Taric rework seems to be just around the corner.
I heard the T word. As a wise man once said, "hell, it's about time."
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I think with a bit more practice I'd be able to land her root more, too. But I think she's totally ready for me to play her ranked right now.
Do you guys max E or Q? And take E lvl 1, usually?
definitely Q at 1, it does more damage, has a shorter cd, and the root duration at rank 1 of E is pitiful
I'm assuming you max q as well but I don't really play her
You could just play Evelynn
For real, though, you can make basically anything work unless it's something like AP Draven that just doesn't scale at all.
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
A friend of mine used to do that. It was highly dependent on starting red and getting first blood mid with an invisible gank