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Latin America Thread: Because North American politics are too dang tame.

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    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    And is done. Dilma Rousseff was impeached.
    Brazil's senators have voted to put President Dilma Rousseff on trial over allegations that she illegally manipulated the budget to hide a growing fiscal deficit.

    After hours of debate, 55 of the 81 senators voted in favour of impeachment while 22 voted against.

    Rousseff will now be suspended from office and Vice President Michel Temer will take over for up to six months pending a decision on whether to remove her from office permanently.

    A two-thirds majority will be needed to remove her permanently at the conclusion of the trial, with Temer remaining president until 2018 elections.

    Outside Congress, where a metal fence was erected to keep apart rival protests, about 6,000 backers of impeachment chanted "Out with Dilma" while police used pepper spray to disperse gangs of Rousseff supporters, who hurled flares back. One person was arrested for inciting violence.

    TryCatcher on
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    Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    Kaputa wrote: »
    Rchanen wrote: »
    Holy shit, that's not the headline I was expecting. How much can the KSA's production even be increased at this point? They must be approaching an upper limit.

    Nah based on their reported inventory there's hundreds of new wells they could drill.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    And is done. Dilma Rousseff was impeached.
    Brazil's senators have voted to put President Dilma Rousseff on trial over allegations that she illegally manipulated the budget to hide a growing fiscal deficit.

    After hours of debate, 55 of the 81 senators voted in favour of impeachment while 22 voted against.

    Rousseff will now be suspended from office and Vice President Michel Temer will take over for up to six months pending a decision on whether to remove her from office permanently.

    A two-thirds majority will be needed to remove her permanently at the conclusion of the trial, with Temer remaining president until 2018 elections.

    Outside Congress, where a metal fence was erected to keep apart rival protests, about 6,000 backers of impeachment chanted "Out with Dilma" while police used pepper spray to disperse gangs of Rousseff supporters, who hurled flares back. One person was arrested for inciting violence.

    Well, this year's Games are shaping up to be a train wreck of epic proportions.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    And is done. Dilma Rousseff was impeached.
    Brazil's senators have voted to put President Dilma Rousseff on trial over allegations that she illegally manipulated the budget to hide a growing fiscal deficit.

    After hours of debate, 55 of the 81 senators voted in favour of impeachment while 22 voted against.

    Rousseff will now be suspended from office and Vice President Michel Temer will take over for up to six months pending a decision on whether to remove her from office permanently.

    A two-thirds majority will be needed to remove her permanently at the conclusion of the trial, with Temer remaining president until 2018 elections.

    Outside Congress, where a metal fence was erected to keep apart rival protests, about 6,000 backers of impeachment chanted "Out with Dilma" while police used pepper spray to disperse gangs of Rousseff supporters, who hurled flares back. One person was arrested for inciting violence.

    Well, this year's Games are shaping up to be a train wreck of epic proportions.

    The contaminated bay wasn't enough of an indication of that?

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    And is done. Dilma Rousseff was impeached.
    Brazil's senators have voted to put President Dilma Rousseff on trial over allegations that she illegally manipulated the budget to hide a growing fiscal deficit.

    After hours of debate, 55 of the 81 senators voted in favour of impeachment while 22 voted against.

    Rousseff will now be suspended from office and Vice President Michel Temer will take over for up to six months pending a decision on whether to remove her from office permanently.

    A two-thirds majority will be needed to remove her permanently at the conclusion of the trial, with Temer remaining president until 2018 elections.

    Outside Congress, where a metal fence was erected to keep apart rival protests, about 6,000 backers of impeachment chanted "Out with Dilma" while police used pepper spray to disperse gangs of Rousseff supporters, who hurled flares back. One person was arrested for inciting violence.

    Well, this year's Games are shaping up to be a train wreck of epic proportions.

    The contaminated bay wasn't enough of an indication of that?

    Well, we have the Brazilian government in meltdown, public health experts saying having the Games in Rio is Tom Clancy plot levels of stupid, the fact that the competition areas will be biohazards...

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Breitbart is the only English source that I could find, but here's an example of Chavez's megalomania having an international impact, even outside Latin America:
    Late Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chávez poured over seven million euros into the creation of a political party in Spain run by “natural allies of the Bolivarian revolution,” according to a 2008 document appropriating Venezuelan funds to the leftist professors who would become the leaders of Podemos, now Spain’s largest third party.

    Spain’s ABC newspaper obtained the document, written by Chávez’s former Popular Finance Minister Rafael Isea and signed and approved by Chávez himself, that outlines the appropriation of 7.168.090 euros to an organization called the Center for Political and Financial Studies (CEPS), run by the leftist professors now in charge of Podemos. The document, dated May 28, 2008, designates this funding to be used to “strengthen ties and commitments to distinguished representatives of fundamentally anti-capitalist leftist schools of thought, which in Spain can create a consensus of political powers and social movements, effecting in that country political changes even more in tune with the Bolivarian government.”

    Venezuela funneled the money into CEPS between the years 2003 and 2011.

    The report goes on to name professors who are now high-ranking members of Podemos as “natural allies of the Bolivarian revolution… who represent a school of thought of revolutionary advancement” including the party’s leader, Pablo Iglesias.

    Three guesses of where Chavez got 7 million euros to give away, and the first two don't count.

    I hate that bastard so much.

    EDIT: The Guardian published a series on food scarcity on Venezuela.

    TryCatcher on
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    tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-36294939

    Maduro declares national state of emergency.
    Seizes Factories(including the previously mentioned beer factory), because obviously halting beer production when you run out of barley is something only a traitor would do.
    Announces military exercises to combat "foreign aggression".

    also

    _89694801_032933256-1.jpg

    They really just need to start exporting those. Get Ye to wear em and they'll make millions.

    tinwhiskers on
    6ylyzxlir2dz.png
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    tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    Rchanen wrote: »

    _89691413_89691411.jpg


    The fluidity of whiteness always amazes me. I wouldn't describe anyone in that picture[Eliseu Padilha-the chief of staff and 2 other new ministers] as white.

    6ylyzxlir2dz.png
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    RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    When I first saw this story I thought "Typical strong arm bullshit on the part of the Maduro government."

    But then this story came up.

    Venezuela crisis: Maduro orders seizure of closed factories

    On Friday, he introduced a new, nationwide state of emergency.
    The move to seize closed factories came after Venezuela's largest food and beverage company, the Polar Group, halted production of beer, blaming government mismanagement for stopping it importing barley.
    The group's billionaire owner, Lorenzo Mendoza, is a fierce critic of President Maduro.
    "We must take all measures to recover productive capacity, which is being paralysed by the bourgeoisie," Mr Maduro told a rally in Caracas.
    "Anyone who wants to halt [production] to sabotage the country should get out, and those who do must be handcuffed and sent to the PGV [Venezuelan General Penitentiary]," he said.
    "We're going to tell imperialism and the international right that the people are present, with their farm instruments in one hand and a gun in the other... to defend this sacred land," he added.

    This really disturbs:
    The opposition has collected and submitted a petition with 1.8 million signatures in favour of a referendum on Mr Maduro, but the National Electoral Board (CNE) has so far not verified them.
    The verification process was supposed to take five days but 12 days have already elapsed.

    @Mazzx @Synthesis @Kaputa @TryCatcher @RockinX

    Maybe I have been listening to too many podcasts. A lot of the Revolutions podcast lately.

    But am I wrong in saying that things are about to go to shit?

    Edit: Scooped by Tinwhiskers! Blast!

    Rchanen on
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    ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    Rchanen wrote: »

    _89691413_89691411.jpg


    The fluidity of whiteness always amazes me. I wouldn't describe anyone in that picture[Eliseu Padilha-the chief of staff and 2 other new ministers] as white.

    Those guys are pretty fukken white dude

    Not that it should matter

    fuck gendered marketing
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    RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    Rchanen wrote: »

    _89691413_89691411.jpg


    The fluidity of whiteness always amazes me. I wouldn't describe anyone in that picture[Eliseu Padilha-the chief of staff and 2 other new ministers] as white.

    Those guys are pretty fukken white dude

    Not that it should matter

    A little more diversity in a country as diverse as Brazil would not be bad.

    This does feel a bit "Old Boys Club"

    But then it is Brazil. Really fucking corrupt.

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    ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    Rchanen wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Rchanen wrote: »

    _89691413_89691411.jpg


    The fluidity of whiteness always amazes me. I wouldn't describe anyone in that picture[Eliseu Padilha-the chief of staff and 2 other new ministers] as white.

    Those guys are pretty fukken white dude

    Not that it should matter

    A little more diversity in a country as diverse as Brazil would not be bad.

    This does feel a bit "Old Boys Club"

    But then it is Brazil. Really fucking corrupt.

    Whatever kicks the PT out

    fuck gendered marketing
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    RockinXRockinX Registered User regular
    Rchanen wrote: »
    When I first saw this story I thought "Typical strong arm bullshit on the part of the Maduro government."

    But then this story came up.

    Venezuela crisis: Maduro orders seizure of closed factories

    On Friday, he introduced a new, nationwide state of emergency.
    The move to seize closed factories came after Venezuela's largest food and beverage company, the Polar Group, halted production of beer, blaming government mismanagement for stopping it importing barley.
    The group's billionaire owner, Lorenzo Mendoza, is a fierce critic of President Maduro.
    "We must take all measures to recover productive capacity, which is being paralysed by the bourgeoisie," Mr Maduro told a rally in Caracas.
    "Anyone who wants to halt [production] to sabotage the country should get out, and those who do must be handcuffed and sent to the PGV [Venezuelan General Penitentiary]," he said.
    "We're going to tell imperialism and the international right that the people are present, with their farm instruments in one hand and a gun in the other... to defend this sacred land," he added.

    This really disturbs:
    The opposition has collected and submitted a petition with 1.8 million signatures in favour of a referendum on Mr Maduro, but the National Electoral Board (CNE) has so far not verified them.
    The verification process was supposed to take five days but 12 days have already elapsed.

    @Mazzx @Synthesis @Kaputa @TryCatcher @RockinX

    Maybe I have been listening to too many podcasts. A lot of the Revolutions podcast lately.

    But am I wrong in saying that things are about to go to shit?

    Edit: Scooped by Tinwhiskers! Blast!

    Everyone keeps saying "things are about to go to shit" then nothing happens. I lost every bit of hope that I had in this damn country several years ago.

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    GatorGator An alligator in Scotland Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    Rchanen wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Rchanen wrote: »

    _89691413_89691411.jpg


    The fluidity of whiteness always amazes me. I wouldn't describe anyone in that picture[Eliseu Padilha-the chief of staff and 2 other new ministers] as white.

    Those guys are pretty fukken white dude

    Not that it should matter

    A little more diversity in a country as diverse as Brazil would not be bad.

    This does feel a bit "Old Boys Club"

    But then it is Brazil. Really fucking corrupt.

    Whatever kicks the PT out

    Counterpoint: http://www.advocate.com/world/2016/3/12/watch-ellen-page-confronts-brazils-biggest-homophobe-gaycation

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    ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    Gator wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Rchanen wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Rchanen wrote: »

    _89691413_89691411.jpg


    The fluidity of whiteness always amazes me. I wouldn't describe anyone in that picture[Eliseu Padilha-the chief of staff and 2 other new ministers] as white.

    Those guys are pretty fukken white dude

    Not that it should matter

    A little more diversity in a country as diverse as Brazil would not be bad.

    This does feel a bit "Old Boys Club"

    But then it is Brazil. Really fucking corrupt.

    Whatever kicks the PT out

    Counterpoint: http://www.advocate.com/world/2016/3/12/watch-ellen-page-confronts-brazils-biggest-homophobe-gaycation

    Not really a counterpoint? I don't want that asshole in power either. Multi-party politics yo

    fuck gendered marketing
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    GatorGator An alligator in Scotland Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    Gator wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Rchanen wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Rchanen wrote: »

    _89691413_89691411.jpg


    The fluidity of whiteness always amazes me. I wouldn't describe anyone in that picture[Eliseu Padilha-the chief of staff and 2 other new ministers] as white.

    Those guys are pretty fukken white dude

    Not that it should matter

    A little more diversity in a country as diverse as Brazil would not be bad.

    This does feel a bit "Old Boys Club"

    But then it is Brazil. Really fucking corrupt.

    Whatever kicks the PT out

    Counterpoint: http://www.advocate.com/world/2016/3/12/watch-ellen-page-confronts-brazils-biggest-homophobe-gaycation

    Not really a counterpoint? I don't want that asshole in power either. Multi-party politics yo

    You have a really unelastic definition of "whatever" then :pop:
    Rchanen wrote: »

    _89691413_89691411.jpg


    The fluidity of whiteness always amazes me. I wouldn't describe anyone in that picture[Eliseu Padilha-the chief of staff and 2 other new ministers] as white.

    I can guarantee you that if any of these gentlemen were to be arrested they would not suffer torture, so... maybe not white, but def in the top 10% of the Brazilian population I guess

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    ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    Gator wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Gator wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Rchanen wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Rchanen wrote: »

    _89691413_89691411.jpg


    The fluidity of whiteness always amazes me. I wouldn't describe anyone in that picture[Eliseu Padilha-the chief of staff and 2 other new ministers] as white.

    Those guys are pretty fukken white dude

    Not that it should matter

    A little more diversity in a country as diverse as Brazil would not be bad.

    This does feel a bit "Old Boys Club"

    But then it is Brazil. Really fucking corrupt.

    Whatever kicks the PT out

    Counterpoint: http://www.advocate.com/world/2016/3/12/watch-ellen-page-confronts-brazils-biggest-homophobe-gaycation

    Not really a counterpoint? I don't want that asshole in power either. Multi-party politics yo

    You have a really unelastic definition of "whatever" then :pop:

    I have no idea what this means

    fuck gendered marketing
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    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Race in Latin America isn't as defined as in the US, most people are the result of the mix between the Spaniards, the black slaves and the native-americans. The mestizaje is just a thing openly discussed and taught in textbooks, mostly on the context of the colony caste system. Here's a chart that wouldn't be missing on a primary textbook in your average Latin American country:
    1.jpg?w=510&h=262

    So no, none of those guys are white. Pure white people are mostly second/third generation inmigrants (Venezuela, for example, used to be a place where a lot of people wanted to go, as strange it sounds now).

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    ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    Yeah don't bring up castas in a discussion of modern Latin American politics.

    It'd be like talking about quadroon balls in the context of the modern US. Historically it's notable and important to consider.

    Today it's just straight racist.

    Like by those charts I'm not white, my burns as soon as the sun comes out brother isn't white, and my blond-haired blue eyed cousins aren't white

    Hint they're p damn white

    fuck gendered marketing
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    AstaleAstale Registered User regular
    Okay. All the peoples are white!

    Which would still make the accusation stupid.

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    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    What is racist is to talk about the stereotype of rich white people lording over the poor browns when discussing Latin American politics.

    And the main problem of politics here is that the society on Latin American is really, really, really classist. Anybody from upper-middle class and up, which tends to be either businessmen or, more likely, goverment officers tends to think of themselves as bred scions with pedigree of a noble lineage. An easy example is the gaudy, even for rich people's standards, lifestyle of the PRI families in Mexico. And in Venezuela there's always outrage since those linked to the chavista goverment love to show off their travels and expensive material posessions in Instagram (and they have the guts to say "You are just jealous" when busted for it).

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    ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Dude you need to get your frameworks examined

    You appear to be operating from gringo one-drop Jim Crow bullshit race theory

    Money whitens, and by Brazilian standards those guys are reeeeal white

    It does not really matter if their great grandmother was mixed

    Edit: and to be clear I don't know what that stereotype is from or who holds it but class and race are strongly correlated and in Latin American contexts modify each other. Eg my blue eyed uncle who is an auto mechanic has on occasion been called brown, but my 1/4 indigenous cousin who is a lawyer never is.

    Elldren on
    fuck gendered marketing
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    TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    It's because of the whole "was once a colony with slaves" thing.

    There was a -whoooole- classification system based on it.

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    ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    Trace wrote: »
    It's because of the whole "was once a colony with slaves" thing.

    There was a -whoooole- classification system based on it.

    But enough about the US, this is the Latin American Politics thread!

    So at least 15 dead in the Venezuelan protests over the weekend

    Shit sure is escalating again.

    fuck gendered marketing
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    RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    So let me tell you a story.

    Lets pretend you are the President of Bolivia. Now lets pretend that a woman you had a relationship claims she has had your son out of wedlock. Then she tells you that child died. But then years later she claims that the son is alive. And it gets reported on.

    And then lets say the son never actually existed and this was all a bullshit made up story.

    Weird shit.

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    RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
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    Knuckle DraggerKnuckle Dragger Explosive Ovine Disposal Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Rchanen wrote: »

    Son of a taint.
    At a press conference with foreign journalists in Caracas, Mr Maduro said the National Assembly had "lost political validity".

    It's a matter of time before it disappears,"

    Someone please tell me I am reading that wrong.

    Edit: Found a more complete quote:
    "I don't expect anything good from congress. It's a matter of time before it disappears, because it doesn't represent our national interest,"

    Fuck.

    Knuckle Dragger on
    Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion.

    - John Stuart Mill
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    tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    Everytime I read something from the Venezuelan government, I feel like I'm reading some sort of cold-war era satirical novel. Like Animal Farm crossed with The Mouse That Roared with a sprinkling of Pravda.

    6ylyzxlir2dz.png
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    emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Everytime I read something from the Venezuelan government, I feel like I'm reading some sort of cold-war era satirical novel. Like Animal Farm crossed with The Mouse That Roared with a sprinkling of Pravda.

    Sounds like there's even a little bit of Tom Clancy's stuff in the mix.
    Mr Maduro accused the United States of leading a plot to deploy foreign troops in his country, and force him from office.

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    KadokenKadoken Giving Ends to my Friends and it Feels Stupendous Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Everytime I read something from the Venezuelan government, I feel like I'm reading some sort of cold-war era satirical novel. Like Animal Farm crossed with The Mouse That Roared with a sprinkling of Pravda.

    Sounds like there's even a little bit of Tom Clancy's stuff in the mix.
    Mr Maduro accused the United States of leading a plot to deploy foreign troops in his country, and force him from office.

    ...maybe if this was the 80s

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    knitdanknitdan In ur base Killin ur guysRegistered User regular
    Actually IIRC the Bush admin tried to oust Chavez but it went about as well as anything else the Bush admin attempted.

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
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    GatorGator An alligator in Scotland Registered User regular
    You recall correctly sir

    How's the, uh, less messy LA mess going about nowadays?

    http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/dilma-rousseff-and-the-chronic-dysfunction-of-brazils-politics?intcid=mod-latest

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    BlindPsychicBlindPsychic Registered User regular
    I think Maduro might be flattering himself a little re: US overthrow. America doesn't really have anything to gain from changing the status quo in Venezuela. I'm sure we're still funneling the opposition some money, but without the bushniks and high oil prices, what do we stand to gain? The US involvement in the '02 coup seems pretty light handed from what I can find, its not like we sent in Navy Seals or Green Berets

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    EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    And with our track record, if we got involved it would either be done already or it would have failed bombastically and be all over international news.

    We don't do things by halves.

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    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    So, the National Assembly on Venezuela officially solicited the activation of the Inter American Democratic Charter.

    Will post an English link once I find one.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    So, the National Assembly on Venezuela officially solicited the activation of the Inter American Democratic Charter.

    Will post an English link once I find one.

    What does that mean?

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    RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    shryke wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    So, the National Assembly on Venezuela officially solicited the activation of the Inter American Democratic Charter.

    Will post an English link once I find one.

    What does that mean?

    The gist of it: If the OAS council finds that democratic institutions have been suspended they can suspend Venezuela from the OAS. It was the same thing Rousseff was threatening to hit her country with. Sanctions essentially.

    Edit: At least I think that is what it means. Correct me if I am wrong.

    Rchanen on
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