Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Well, regardless of the reason they gave you can't really be surprised it is gone. Console commands that directly counter main options HAD to feel like cheating unless you are outright delusional. So I can't understand why you would be shocked when they remove it.
I was not implying conspiracy theory or anything when I said they might not be giving the real reason (but grats again WoW thread, you are a boat full of reasonable thought). The reason they could have gotten rid of it is just because they WANT to. Its a console command. It is a HIDDEN command. There is no reason for that to be there. But if they just told you they felt like it, OH MY GOD THE UPROAR. So they try to give a reason. That could be why it feels so terrible.
It was basically an exploit. A 100% harmless completely minor exploit, but it was one. They just didn't like it being there. Chances are, if the complaining gets through, they will just increase the max on the slider like it should be in the first place to a point the players feel fixes this boss issue.
And really, if you EVER, EVER want your damn point heard, don't say things like "all I will see is feet". This has just about never been true and is clearly an exaggeration. And all that will do is get the opinion dismissed. It always does.
I don't know about bosses, but questing in WoD in Gorgrond has had it were I all I can see of the magnarons when they are close to me is the waist down. If I want to look up and see their names or bars, I have to basically up-skirt my hunter. That's kinda annoying. I can can only guess what it must be like when the boss is 50 stories high and rides Godzilla around like a Yoshi.
The functionality of that new addon being developed, Dynamicam, was going to possibly fix that too. Like I zoom in, and I zoom out quite a bit depending on what I'm doing but that addon has the nice benefit of being able to make the camera not only zoom OUT, but UP when dealing with a much larger target. Whether it's an enemy or just talking to an NPC.
That was really cool, and now it can't be done anymore.
You don't see the issue as badly in wider resolutions, but once you get down to the standard of 1080 it feels really cramped. On top of it all, and I'm not one who suffers from this but many do, it makes them feel dizzy and in some cases a little sick.
On the forums you have several threads on the Legion General, PTR but also now the normal General forums. Some toxic people tried to squelch it at the start by saying all discussion of it should remain in the first two sub-forums, but that's just sounds like ass kissing to me so the issues won't be seen. The thread specifically made and closely watched by the devs regarding people getting sick from sounds/vision issues in the beta now has people talking about the camera being far too close on top of any other issues.
This isn't going to go ignored. It feels like it'll just keep ramping up the more people hear about it, much like the sudden change they did way back at the start of WoD where they removed Personal Loot as the standard for LFG and the less vocal came out of the woodwork.
I don't know about bosses, but questing in WoD in Gorgrond has had it were I all I can see of the magnarons when they are close to me is the waist down. If I want to look up and see their names or bars, I have to basically up-skirt my hunter. That's kinda annoying. I can can only guess what it must be like when the boss is 50 stories high and rides Godzilla around like a Yoshi.
Hell even in Lich King trying to fight those magnarons was a pain in the ass on a melee character.
Ranged can stand at a distance and see what's going on, but melee are all clumped together into a blob of color and pointy bits slicing away at the boss's giant ass.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited June 2016
Some toxic people tried to squelch it at the start by saying all discussion of it should remain in the first two sub-forums, but that's just sounds like ass kissing to me so the issues won't be seen.
Don't be a goose. The devs are going to look at the Legion forums for Legion feedback. Spamming it all over every single forum is just teenage internet flashmobbing thinly veiled as "making it visible".
I agree it is probably going to be changed back, but there's no need to be all "rah rah power of the community rah rah POST IT EVERYWHERE"
People didn't really seem to like the talent switching changes, and they've hummed and hawwed around that issue to the point where it's basically just like it is now in WoD except you'll buy the tomes from players. So no real change(when the talent system seemed designed around the idea of freely switching, most testers say this.)
That wasn't going to get changed cause it is just a pain in the ass. This camera issue thing though... People are actually feeling sick over it, the game feels claustrophobic for some and others dizzy. I think this is why it'll be reverted, and possibly just make the slider go all the way to the old maximum you could get via the slash command.
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
edited June 2016
Which is fine, but you are being like really extra about it. You sound like you are preparing to go to battle over this. Which is what people do and then never get their point heard.
I still think they will compromise in some fashion and add more to the in settings adjustment bar. That is because I still feel like they removed it because it was a hidden command and you know, that is actually good game design.
People should be letting it be known how they do not like this. And it should be changed. But they shouldn't be frothing at the mouth. They shouldn't be doing it in a way they aren't supposed to then getting worse when someone tries to control that (because they are supposed to). They shouldn't be exaggerating so much just to make a point (EVERY boss is just feet is an exaggeration, saying a few are that bad is more true). Etc.
Also the talent issue isn't even comparable. It was a gameplay decision and they were trying to do something (and kind of failed) to change how the game was played. This is about removing an unintended command and maybe its functionality simply for reasons.
I would LOVE for someone to show me a boss where you only see the feet at this zoom. Like seriously, that is plenty far. If there is any boss that is unable to be handled at that zoom, they need better boss design.
Based on that, and the ACTUAL explanation (not the exaggerated one that leaves out details) they are 100% right. Being able to zoom out to near infinity DOES give a competitive advantage (mostly pvp) and is a huge issue for visual design. Players might not like hearing that, but its true. More than one game has said this same thing. Players just don't give a shit. That doesn't make the explanation bad it just makes them ignorant.
Which is fine, but you are being like really extra about it. You sound like you are preparing to go to battle over this. Which is what people do and then never get their point heard.
I still think they will compromise in some fashion and add more to the in settings adjustment bar. That is because I still feel like they removed it because it was a hidden command and you know, that is actually good game design.
People should be letting it be known how they do not like this. And it should be changed. But they shouldn't be frothing at the mouth. They shouldn't be doing it in a way they aren't supposed to then getting worse when someone tries to control that (because they are supposed to). They shouldn't be exaggerating so much just to make a point (EVERY boss is just feet is an exaggeration, saying a few are that bad is more true). Etc.
Also the talent issue isn't even comparable. It was a gameplay decision and they were trying to do something (and kind of failed) to change how the game was played. This is about removing an unintended command and maybe its functionality simply for reasons.
I would LOVE for someone to show me a boss where you only see the feet at this zoom. Like seriously, that is plenty far. If there is any boss that is unable to be handled at that zoom, they need better boss design.
Based on that, and the ACTUAL explanation (not the exaggerated one that leaves out details) they are 100% right. Being able to zoom out to near infinity DOES give a competitive advantage (mostly pvp) and is a huge issue for visual design. Players might not like hearing that, but its true. More than one game has said this same thing. Players just don't give a shit. That doesn't make the explanation bad it just makes them ignorant.
:P
But yeah for real bosses I'd say Kazzak gets pretty close, and as I recall there was also one pretty fucking big magnaron. But dungeon and raid bosses have typically been pretty decent about size.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I am not even sure what form of sarcasm is in that image so if there is a joke there I am missing it
Yeah lol, theres no way you're zooming out enough to see the top of that giant if you're in range to attack it. But that's kind of the point of the oversized enemies, that feeling of ddaaaaammmmnnnn when you pan the camera up. You also don't need to see anything but the feet when doing a raid, if you're looking up at the sky you aren't looking at the ground, which means you'll be standing in crap.
if they were really only concerned about information asymmetry among players, the obvious solution would be to just change the range the options slider can zoom to; they declined to do that, so obviously it isn't actually what they're worried about. This idea that the additional zoom was an 'exploit' is fucking stupid; if they didn't want people zooming that far out, why was it a well-known console command forever?
the part of the post that's honest-sounding is the part where he essentially writes 'this isn't what our artists want the game to look like'
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
I got wormed into playing this again with some friends as you do, even after saying I'd never play it again and having not played since at least Firelands came out.
I originally came in here to complain about the lack of wrist slot removal (or any kind of 'make this item's appearance disappear') options for transmogrification. It seems like a pretty gross oversight by Blizzard not to have a means of making certain gear slot items (aside from the obvious and always available hide head slot) for transmog, even one along the lines of FFXIV's Emperor's New Clothes option where you get an item that is invisible for this express purpose that you can transmog with. My Stylish Green Shirt has wasted transmog potential now.
But I can see everyone in here is busy with the much more important matter of camera scaling, which I agree is a big deal, so I'll just show myself out. @Arthil can fill me in on the details later.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited June 2016
Just wear tiny little wrists. You won't be able to see them from maximum camera distance.
reVerse on
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
Just wear tiny little wrists. You won't be able to see them from maximum camera distance.
All wrist slot options I've tried still remove the cuffs on said shirt, which is the entire point of the whole exercise for what I'm going for. I may as well not bother at that point and just go with bigger gloves.
And I mean if what's being said about Legion's camera change is true, I should be preparing my character's look for a time in the future where I won't be able to ignore little wrist options with a console command.
Hey guys, how are shadowpriests and marksman hunters doing in legion when it comes to both pvp and pve? (Specifically PvE)
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Kevin CristI make the devil hit his kneesand say the 'our father'Registered Userregular
I'm trying to decide if i want to focus my DH as Havoc or Vengeance. V will have faster dungeon times and better soloing, but I like H's artifact designs better. Basically Form vs Function.
Is the Sha'Tari defense armor getting added to the closet?
I know it's rep based but are the rep armours from WOD getting added to the armour collections?
Trying to convince my guild to jump off Vent and get into Discord because I *hate* Vent, and they are paying for it! Silly.
I'm also at a crossroads. I've known most of these guys (in-game) for 7 years or so. But my raiding style and my patience has changed dramatically. I want to hang out with them still but I would love to either join or start my own guild and manage it properly.
That being said... yeah. I think I already know what is going to happen but I just don't want to be a dick about it.
Is the Sha'Tari defense armor getting added to the closet?
I know it's rep based but are the rep armours from WOD getting added to the armour collections?
From what I've seen, rep-based stuff can show up in there, but the character trying to use the transmog still has to meet the rep requirements. Don't have that specific one to check, but as a example...
PMAvers on
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Hey guys, how are shadowpriests and marksman hunters doing in legion when it comes to both pvp and pve? (Specifically PvE)
Shadowpriests are in a weird place where their DPS is entirely tied to their Void phase, to the point where mismanaging one GCD completely kills their DPS. Also, because of their whole "build a bar" thing they're not very good at doing anything solo. Things die before you get your bar filled up and then the bar rapidly drains.
Marksman hunters put out great numbers but their gameplay is very slow and proc-centric, some people like it, most don't. Their animations are completely anemic and don't have any kind of sense of power, making them feel very underwhelming despite the big numbers.
Ok as I did not want to do the rep grind again since I would use it my draenei paladin but with it being behind the rep grind is a o well but then I guess I can mindlessly grind on Shatt at 110 when i feel like it
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Trying to convince my guild to jump off Vent and get into Discord because I *hate* Vent, and they are paying for it! Silly.
I'm also at a crossroads. I've known most of these guys (in-game) for 7 years or so. But my raiding style and my patience has changed dramatically. I want to hang out with them still but I would love to either join or start my own guild and manage it properly.
That being said... yeah. I think I already know what is going to happen but I just don't want to be a dick about it.
If you are starting or want to be involved in starting something, what are your goals? Cause I was interested in the same thing since I don't want a raid heavy atmosphere. I don't plan on raiding at all really and just want to mostly dungeon.
Everything about the Marksmen Hunter looks like my shit. It's simple, but effective. One guy I saw previewing the class was getting 1 million damage off without too much trouble. The problem people might have with it is that it's simple, to being nearly boring. Basically you are either marking and using your best shot (which is Piercing Shot, if I remember correctly) with Murder of Crows or you use Sidewinder to mark a group then use Barrage for a lot of damage.
But you were the bad guys all along! Is an ass-pull an insulting ass-pull. I wonder if Blizzard has the foresight to add special text for Pandaren since we had nothing to do with Bc
If you want to play an isometric top down game, go play starcraft, HotS, or LoL. There is certainly something to be said for maintaining the third person view in a game that is supposed to be an RPG. I've been playing since launch using just the normal max view distance in the options and I didn't find that the world was burning around me because I couldn't zoom out any further. Most of the time there are walls, ceilings, foliage, or whatever else in the way preventing zooming out all the way anyway. Most of the screenshots people post are just them standing in the middle of the field where there isn't anything going on anyway. Go take screenshots during the majority of raid encounters and you'll be stopped by a wall long before you get to how far you can zoom out anyway, the same can be said for most dungeons.
When the discussion talks about pvp it gets a little ironic. People complain that it is being dumbed down and made easier due to pruning and whatever, but taking away their perfect intel by restricting vision is the apocalypse and will make things too hard. Situational awareness is a skill itself, and having to look around a little to analyze what is going on is more interesting than having a birds eye view and playing like a battlefield commander in whatever RTS.
But you were the bad guys all along! Is an ass-pull an insulting ass-pull. I wonder if Blizzard has the foresight to add special text for Pandaren since we had nothing to do with Bc
I think its less you were the bad guys along but more of most people think they have a valid justification for their own actions. Given all the inexplicable shit illidan was doing up until the black temple nobody knew what he was really trying to do and so thought he was doing something evil. Also the fact he was so obsessed with killing demons he was doing so many unsavory things made it hard for anybody to trust him. To illidan his goal is destroy the legion end period stop. He will do anything and everything he can think of to achieve that goal which makes him potentially pretty inimicable to most other groups as well. Still I have to agree with him given demons only die if killed in the twisting nether or in an area totally infused with the nether than any battling of demons elsewhere is utterly pointless. The only way to really do damage to the legion is to fight them on their own ground.
Posts
Read that sentence again.
That being said, why fix something that no one is clamoring is broken and needs fixing?
I was not implying conspiracy theory or anything when I said they might not be giving the real reason (but grats again WoW thread, you are a boat full of reasonable thought). The reason they could have gotten rid of it is just because they WANT to. Its a console command. It is a HIDDEN command. There is no reason for that to be there. But if they just told you they felt like it, OH MY GOD THE UPROAR. So they try to give a reason. That could be why it feels so terrible.
It was basically an exploit. A 100% harmless completely minor exploit, but it was one. They just didn't like it being there. Chances are, if the complaining gets through, they will just increase the max on the slider like it should be in the first place to a point the players feel fixes this boss issue.
And really, if you EVER, EVER want your damn point heard, don't say things like "all I will see is feet". This has just about never been true and is clearly an exaggeration. And all that will do is get the opinion dismissed. It always does.
sometimes it still is true, even with the increased zoom
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
That was really cool, and now it can't be done anymore.
You don't see the issue as badly in wider resolutions, but once you get down to the standard of 1080 it feels really cramped. On top of it all, and I'm not one who suffers from this but many do, it makes them feel dizzy and in some cases a little sick.
On the forums you have several threads on the Legion General, PTR but also now the normal General forums. Some toxic people tried to squelch it at the start by saying all discussion of it should remain in the first two sub-forums, but that's just sounds like ass kissing to me so the issues won't be seen. The thread specifically made and closely watched by the devs regarding people getting sick from sounds/vision issues in the beta now has people talking about the camera being far too close on top of any other issues.
This isn't going to go ignored. It feels like it'll just keep ramping up the more people hear about it, much like the sudden change they did way back at the start of WoD where they removed Personal Loot as the standard for LFG and the less vocal came out of the woodwork.
Hell even in Lich King trying to fight those magnarons was a pain in the ass on a melee character.
Ranged can stand at a distance and see what's going on, but melee are all clumped together into a blob of color and pointy bits slicing away at the boss's giant ass.
Don't be a goose. The devs are going to look at the Legion forums for Legion feedback. Spamming it all over every single forum is just teenage internet flashmobbing thinly veiled as "making it visible".
I agree it is probably going to be changed back, but there's no need to be all "rah rah power of the community rah rah POST IT EVERYWHERE"
That wasn't going to get changed cause it is just a pain in the ass. This camera issue thing though... People are actually feeling sick over it, the game feels claustrophobic for some and others dizzy. I think this is why it'll be reverted, and possibly just make the slider go all the way to the old maximum you could get via the slash command.
I still think they will compromise in some fashion and add more to the in settings adjustment bar. That is because I still feel like they removed it because it was a hidden command and you know, that is actually good game design.
People should be letting it be known how they do not like this. And it should be changed. But they shouldn't be frothing at the mouth. They shouldn't be doing it in a way they aren't supposed to then getting worse when someone tries to control that (because they are supposed to). They shouldn't be exaggerating so much just to make a point (EVERY boss is just feet is an exaggeration, saying a few are that bad is more true). Etc.
Also the talent issue isn't even comparable. It was a gameplay decision and they were trying to do something (and kind of failed) to change how the game was played. This is about removing an unintended command and maybe its functionality simply for reasons.
Edit: Oh my gosh, I just saw the post. And this SS :
http://imgur.com/e8vFT6t
I would LOVE for someone to show me a boss where you only see the feet at this zoom. Like seriously, that is plenty far. If there is any boss that is unable to be handled at that zoom, they need better boss design.
Based on that, and the ACTUAL explanation (not the exaggerated one that leaves out details) they are 100% right. Being able to zoom out to near infinity DOES give a competitive advantage (mostly pvp) and is a huge issue for visual design. Players might not like hearing that, but its true. More than one game has said this same thing. Players just don't give a shit. That doesn't make the explanation bad it just makes them ignorant.
:P
But yeah for real bosses I'd say Kazzak gets pretty close, and as I recall there was also one pretty fucking big magnaron. But dungeon and raid bosses have typically been pretty decent about size.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
It's a quest boss who roamed Northrend in WotLK. He was so tall you could only see one foot at max zoom.
I don't really see a problem with this.
Is there any add-on that does this? Cause this has been a problem for me no matter what the zoom is.
the part of the post that's honest-sounding is the part where he essentially writes 'this isn't what our artists want the game to look like'
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I originally came in here to complain about the lack of wrist slot removal (or any kind of 'make this item's appearance disappear') options for transmogrification. It seems like a pretty gross oversight by Blizzard not to have a means of making certain gear slot items (aside from the obvious and always available hide head slot) for transmog, even one along the lines of FFXIV's Emperor's New Clothes option where you get an item that is invisible for this express purpose that you can transmog with. My Stylish Green Shirt has wasted transmog potential now.
But I can see everyone in here is busy with the much more important matter of camera scaling, which I agree is a big deal, so I'll just show myself out. @Arthil can fill me in on the details later.
All wrist slot options I've tried still remove the cuffs on said shirt, which is the entire point of the whole exercise for what I'm going for. I may as well not bother at that point and just go with bigger gloves.
And I mean if what's being said about Legion's camera change is true, I should be preparing my character's look for a time in the future where I won't be able to ignore little wrist options with a console command.
Nah, some gloves are good, it's the wrists.
Robes with cuffs are unaffected by both. But I'm not going for a robe thing right now.
Which Discord server?
Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
I know it's rep based but are the rep armours from WOD getting added to the armour collections?
I'm also at a crossroads. I've known most of these guys (in-game) for 7 years or so. But my raiding style and my patience has changed dramatically. I want to hang out with them still but I would love to either join or start my own guild and manage it properly.
That being said... yeah. I think I already know what is going to happen but I just don't want to be a dick about it.
From what I've seen, rep-based stuff can show up in there, but the character trying to use the transmog still has to meet the rep requirements. Don't have that specific one to check, but as a example...
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Shadowpriests are in a weird place where their DPS is entirely tied to their Void phase, to the point where mismanaging one GCD completely kills their DPS. Also, because of their whole "build a bar" thing they're not very good at doing anything solo. Things die before you get your bar filled up and then the bar rapidly drains.
Marksman hunters put out great numbers but their gameplay is very slow and proc-centric, some people like it, most don't. Their animations are completely anemic and don't have any kind of sense of power, making them feel very underwhelming despite the big numbers.
If you are starting or want to be involved in starting something, what are your goals? Cause I was interested in the same thing since I don't want a raid heavy atmosphere. I don't plan on raiding at all really and just want to mostly dungeon.
So, you can judge yourselves.
When the discussion talks about pvp it gets a little ironic. People complain that it is being dumbed down and made easier due to pruning and whatever, but taking away their perfect intel by restricting vision is the apocalypse and will make things too hard. Situational awareness is a skill itself, and having to look around a little to analyze what is going on is more interesting than having a birds eye view and playing like a battlefield commander in whatever RTS.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595