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[Windows OS] Version 1604 - get ready, the next update is creative!

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  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    edited February 21
    wunderbar wrote: »
    Caedwyr wrote: »
    A while back I installed Windows 10 on an older Win7 laptop. I haven't used it a whole lot since, but I fought with it for a while this past Friday and I have a few questions:

    1. Is there any way to deactivate/quarentine the built-in store stuff on the default music player that comes with Windows 10. Windows Media Player in older versions always had a store element, but it was much more avoidable. I couldn't find any way to configure things to de-empathize the store elements, which is too bad because the default player had some kind of interesting stuff that I liked. This is probably a non-issue as I can always just install an alternative media player software.
    2. When I plug the laptop into a second monitor via a HDMI cable, the second monitor shows up as a default PnP monitor (which is the same as the laptop screen) on the device manager. This means I can't adjust screen resolution for the monitor or even get the screen to fill the entire monitor because Windows 10 is treating the two screens as though they are both identical (they both show up as screen 1 when I use the identify button). The weird thing is when I look at attached devices, the external monitor shows up there correctly with the manufacturer's name and everything, it just doesn't let me do anything or modify settings in any way. Has anyone had experience getting this to work? Previously in Windows 7 when I plugged in an external monitor, I could use Shift + F5 to alter which screen was active or cloned and I could go into display settings and use the second monitor for an extended desktop. Even at lower resolutions, the second monitor always was filled (aspect ratio permitting).

    you can't really turn off the Windows Store without breaking a lot of things, as most of the built in apps update and run from there. There's nothing forcing you to use it, just leave it alone.

    As for the HDMI connection, it's just setting your displays as mirrored when you have it plugged in. Set the second monitor as "extend" and it should run as a second screen. Alternatively, there's a hotkey for it. Windows+P.

    For the HDMI connection, the automatic drivers for the monitors has both of them as a "PnP Monitor". The system is not detecting them as separate monitors. I can't change from mirrored as it is the only option selectable. The operating system seems to think that they are actually just one monitor, except when I look at the attached devices menu (I'll have to look it up). There do not appear to be any Windows 10 drivers available for the secondary monitor.

    Regarding Groove, that's a real shame. There's some features in there that look like they could be handy but the heavy integration with the store makes it less useful for me. The Windows Store omnipresence is one thing that is making me think of reverting back to Windows 7. Driver support is the main reason I'll likely switch back though, since I've had a lot of problems with programs/hardware not working properly because there aren't windows 10 drivers for lots of the onboard Acer 2010 laptop stuff which causes a number of programs to not behave properly or to randomly stop behaving after I get a fix in place.

    Caedwyr on
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  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    That's more likely an issue with your video card drivers, not the monitor drivers.

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
    wunderbarSynthesis
  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    I'll poke around to see if there are any updated drivers for the onboard video card. I was able to use a second monitor in Extended mode before the Win10 upgrade, so hopefully I will be able to get it working again.

    steam_sig.png
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    If any of you woke up this morning, or yesterday morning, and found that your mobile devices suddenly stopped working with Windows 10 (or 8 or 7)--your phones, walkmans, what have you--it's not your (or my) old-ass phone that we stubbornly refuse to let go of. Microsoft in their infinite wisdom rolled out a WPD update that broke USB drivers for certain devices and just removed it this week. And it's actually extremely easy to fix (and fairly easy to prevent from installing again).

    So hopefully you won't be like me and wipe your phone in an effort to fix it.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • DizzenDizzen Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote: »
    If any of you woke up this morning, or yesterday morning, and found that your mobile devices suddenly stopped working with Windows 10 (or 8 or 7)--your phones, walkmans, what have you--it's not your (or my) old-ass phone that we stubbornly refuse to let go of. Microsoft in their infinite wisdom rolled out a WPD update that broke USB drivers for certain devices and just removed it this week. And it's actually extremely easy to fix (and fairly easy to prevent from installing again).

    So hopefully you won't be like me and wipe your phone in an effort to fix it.

    I had a similar issue earlier this week, tried to plug in my tablet (which I haven't connected to my computer in months) and it wouldn't work. After spending half an hour thinking it was the fault of the tablet or its driver (since the Device Manager showed the device as having an issue), I came across this Microsoft Community thread that had a very quick fix for the problem.

    Dichotomy wrote: »
    it'd be like Jurassic Park, but with bananas
  • wunderbarwunderbar Registered User regular
    So this came up in the PC Build thread, so I'm going to post it here too since it's just as relevant here.

    Yesterday (march 16th) there was a big hubub about Microsoft blocking updtes for Windows 7 and 8.1 systems on kaby lake. so I did a bit of looking:


    There were a bunch of articles all pointing to this KB from microsoft. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4012982/discusses-an-issue-in-which-you-receive-a-your-pc-uses-a-processor-tha

    Now. That pages has been up since skylake was announced a year ago. It's been revised 19 times, but it has been up for a while.

    In the "news" articles I'm reading about this, I cannot find one documented case of someone running a kaby lake processor on windows 7 and then not getting windows updates. People are asking to see documented cases, and no one is bringing forward proof. There's just a lot of internet people going "OMG I'M SEEING THIS THING TODAY SO OBVIOUSLY MY THOUGHT ABOUT THIS WITH NO EVIDENCE OR PROOF MUS BE TRUE" I'd also like to point out that kaby lake processors have been around for while now, and if there had been widespread instances of this being a thing, we would have seen it already. a basic Windows 7 SP1 install has something like 400 windows updates to do. If they were being blocked, we'd have seen it already.

    Even in the KB article, it straight up says "may" be unable. It doesn't say they have stopped. This is microsoft covering their ass in the case that there may be an update that doesn't work on these processors.

    And while we're on this path, a bit of an explainer. Yes, processors have drivers, just like your video card. There's a basic driver level that should allow pretty much any x86 processor to work in windows, but a lot of the fine tuned stuff, like power management, etc, all requires specifically written drivers. Generally, Microsoft just does this themselves, because it is in their best interest. Now, when Intel released skylake, it was apparently quite different at a driver level, and that caused huge issues. Do we all remember the issues with skylake laptops and sleep not working correctly, or things like the power management on skylake based atom processors basically not working at all? that's because of how bad the skylake underpinnings was. It's less noticeable on a desktop where a lot of those power management things don't matter as much, hence in a place like this (the PC build thread) thread we don't see it, but for laptops, skylake was a nightmare. Hell, Apple outright skipped skylake on their entire mac lineup.

    Microsoft and Intel fought over this for a while, which is where the first "we're not going to support skylake on Windows 7" came from. Microsoft and Intel eventually compromised and got this dealt with, and the kaby lake release is from what I understand basically a skylake 1.0.1 type release, where a lot of the upgrades to it were to fix the driver model.

    Microsoft has kept their language that they may not be able to support it because while we still think of processors as just x86 parts, the architecture is still quite different in 2017 than it was in 2006 when the codebase that Windows 7 runs on was developed (remember that Windows 7 is for all intents and purposes Windows Vista 1.1)

    Lastly: even installing Windows 7 on kaby lake is apparently going to be difficult anyway. Kaby lake has dropped xhci support, which is what Windows 7's installer uses as it's driver to interface with storage. That means injecting a new driver into the windows 7 installer, assuming your motherboard maker actually writes one.

    XBL: thewunderbar PSN: thewunderbar NNID: thewunderbar Steam: wunderbar87 Twitter: wunderbar
    SynthesisElvenshaeamnesiasoft
  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    Yeah, the *Lake chips and Zen have taken control of the power management states from the OS because they can do it like 300x faster in hardware than the OS can manage.

    Basically Microsoft is saying "we don't want to backport the shit we did in the Win 10 kernel to make this work on operating systems that no OEM, ever, will ship on these 2017 chips". With Skylake it was more a case of benign neglect, but now they're saying they might actually block updates going forward.

  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    The important thing is whether 8.1 works. 7 is probably too close to end of life for a new system, but 8.1 has quite a while to go as long as it doesn't get actively screwed over.

    Given that 8.1 is still in mainstream support, it had better damn well receive support for mainstream hardware.

  • wunderbarwunderbar Registered User regular
    jothki wrote: »
    The important thing is whether 8.1 works. 7 is probably too close to end of life for a new system, but 8.1 has quite a while to go as long as it doesn't get actively screwed over.

    Given that 8.1 is still in mainstream support, it had better damn well receive support for mainstream hardware.

    I'll agree with you on 8.1. Once an OS is out of mainstream support Microsoft is under no obligation to ensure it works on newer hardware. But Windows 8.1 is undermainstream support until January 2018. It should continue to be updated for hardware.

    XBL: thewunderbar PSN: thewunderbar NNID: thewunderbar Steam: wunderbar87 Twitter: wunderbar
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