Looks like suppression is just an applied debuff (slower speed) that effects retreat speed as well. I didn't see any units get suppressed to the point of not firing.
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
I am actually liking this new footage, it looks like suped up DoW 1.
Looks like suppression is just an applied debuff (slower speed) that effects retreat speed as well. I didn't see any units get suppressed to the point of not firing.
retreat was a very dumb and bad mechanic in DoW 2, hope they can make it not dumb and bad this time
I disagree entirely. It was a very well designed mechanic that integrated well with the overall design for DoW2 which strongly encouraged unit preservation vs map control.
retreat was a very dumb and bad mechanic in DoW 2, hope they can make it not dumb and bad this time
I disagree entirely. It was a very well designed mechanic that integrated well with the overall design for DoW2 which strongly encouraged unit preservation vs map control.
if i'm being honest, while we did our best to smooth it over, melee and retreat did not integrate well.
it was a really tough time balancing the two. the melee unit charging a ranged unit was a very common early game occurrence, and it had the unintended consequence of making the core combat about being able to read an invisible line and knowing the exact moment when to hit retreat.
It works better in the context of CoH, which didn't have a melee component.
retreat was a very dumb and bad mechanic in DoW 2, hope they can make it not dumb and bad this time
I disagree entirely. It was a very well designed mechanic that integrated well with the overall design for DoW2 which strongly encouraged unit preservation vs map control.
if i'm being honest, while we did our best to smooth it over, melee and retreat did not integrate well.
it was a really tough time balancing the two to work together the melee unit charging a ranged unit was a very common early game occurrence, and it had the unintended consequence of making the core combat crisis about being able to read an invisible line and knowing the exact moment when to hit retreat.
It works better in the context of CoH, which didn't have a melee component.
Agreed. And from the position of living the fantasy of callous general in the brutal 41st millennium it really broke my suspension of disbelief.
It worked really well when you're controlling the small groups of space marines in the single player but having ork boyz and guardians fighting like greased up wrestlers who can't do any damage to each other unless they get a lucky grenade isn't what most people come to 40k for.
retreat was a very dumb and bad mechanic in DoW 2, hope they can make it not dumb and bad this time
I disagree entirely. It was a very well designed mechanic that integrated well with the overall design for DoW2 which strongly encouraged unit preservation vs map control.
if i'm being honest, while we did our best to smooth it over, melee and retreat did not integrate well.
it was a really tough time balancing the two. the melee unit charging a ranged unit was a very common early game occurrence, and it had the unintended consequence of making the core combat about being able to read an invisible line and knowing the exact moment when to hit retreat.
It works better in the context of CoH, which didn't have a melee component.
And DoW2 did a pretty decent job of balancing it regardless. It gave some sort of reward for getting a melee unit engaged while still allowing some form of escape due to the increased run speed on retreat.
The situation you describe is one that isn't really related to retreat as far as I'm concerned - it's the pretty standard melee/ranged dynamic, and it's a problem that I'd near wager will come up in DoW3 anyway. If a ranged unit can simply run away from and kite a melee unit, the melee unit can't ever achieve much (which is in part why banshees were so useful in DoW2, they could engage and snare). If the melee unit is going to inflict significant damage on a ranged unit, you'll have to chose when to back out or lose the unit if you don't. It's a risk vs reward mechanic that has to be learnt in every RTS game where unit preservation is important. The same situation comes up in CoH2 even without melee units - if a relatively close range unit like sturmpioneers are charging an infantry section you have to make a judgement call on whether or not to back out and when. Getting it wrong can cost you, but that's part of the game. I'll agree it works better in CoH (unsurprising considering the mechanics were developed for it), but I don't think there was much wrong with the implementation in DoW2.
What irritates me is that the PR line for promoting DoW3 so far seems to be "rubbish DoW2 at every opportunity". Literally the only good thing I've seen Relic say about DoW2 is "hero units" which I consider to be a gross oversimplification of the game mechanics in DoW2.
Edit: just wanted to make clear I mean relic as a company, not you personally.
The situation you describe is one that isn't really related to retreat as far as I'm concerned - it's the pretty standard melee/ranged dynamic
Well, that's a bit of a simplification. Retreating units move faster when retreating but also take more damage to melee units. The gameplay hinges on knowing the exact moment of when to hit the retreat button. Losing a unit in DoW2 was very punishing, so failing to learn where the invisible line was could snow ball quickly. it was a sensitive gameplay ecosystem.
I'm glad you mentioned CoH and SMGs - those close range unit were pretty specialized and didn't come until mid to late game. And volkgrenadiers squad upgraded still adequate at range and in cover. Banshees and sluggas don't have that utility.
I'm speaking frankly as a student of game design - I apologise if I've created that impression I'm rubbishing DoW2. It's been the defining game I've worked on in my career and obviously I am very proud of what my colleagues & I accomplished. There's plenty of little things we've taken forward that you haven't seen yet and will manifest in subtle ways. Unfortunately, because of the scale of DoW2 and DoW3 (the scale is even bigger than CoH) is so different not everything could come forward.
Matrias on
3DS/Pokemon Friend Code - 2122-5878-9273 - Kyle
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kaliyamaLeft to find less-moderated foraRegistered Userregular
They said something about 'controlling Titans?' Dunno what that means. Maybe we build them, maybe they're special units in a campaign mission or something. I do like big super-units, though usually I find them to not be the most effective thing to shoot for. Having a real Gargant stomping around would be pretty great though.
I would expect them to function like artillery or aircraft call-ins like CoH2. Maybe a giant Titan foot smooshes the battlefield?
They said something about 'controlling Titans?' Dunno what that means. Maybe we build them, maybe they're special units in a campaign mission or something. I do like big super-units, though usually I find them to not be the most effective thing to shoot for. Having a real Gargant stomping around would be pretty great though.
I would expect them to function like artillery or aircraft call-ins like CoH2. Maybe a giant Titan foot smooshes the battlefield?
I thought it had been confirmed that that was referring to the Imperial Knight?
I mean, if all "controlling a titan" means is calling in an artillery barrage or similar attack, you kind of did that in DoW 1 where you could activate the titan cannon near the end.
The situation you describe is one that isn't really related to retreat as far as I'm concerned - it's the pretty standard melee/ranged dynamic
Well, that's a bit of a simplification. Retreating units move faster when retreating but also take more damage to melee units. The gameplay hinges on knowing the exact moment of when to hit the retreat button. Losing a unit in DoW2 was very punishing, so failing to learn where the invisible line was could snow ball quickly. it was a sensitive gameplay ecosystem.
I'm glad you mentioned CoH and SMGs - those close range unit were pretty specialized and didn't come until mid to late game. And volkgrenadiers squad upgraded still adequate at range and in cover. Banshees and sluggas don't have that utility.
I'm speaking frankly as a student of game design - I apologise if I've created that impression I'm rubbishing DoW2. It's been the defining game I've worked on in my career and obviously I am very proud of what my colleagues & I accomplished. There's plenty of little things we've taken forward that you haven't seen yet and will manifest in subtle ways. Unfortunately, because of the scale of DoW2 and DoW3 (the scale is even bigger than CoH) is so different not everything could come forward.
I was taking the extra melee damage received into account, I considered it the "reward" for getting a melee unit engaged. I also chose Sturmpioneers as an example since they're the starting OKW unit. I wasn't quite sure what you meant by the "invisible line" mind, I was assuming it was just the 'point of no return' where backing out means you still lose the unit. Again, something I don't have a problem with (although yes, I'll agree the game ecosystem was quite sensitive). On the other hand, it could mean the pathing line back to the designated retreat point which is a much harder problem to fix, and wouldn't always be obvious. Again though I found it wasn't a problem most of the time and being intercepted could be considered good positional play by your opponent.
To go back a bit though, I started this because someone called retreat "very dumb and bad" which I think is very unfair. It made a lot of sense within the context of DoW2 and if it were removed from DoW2 it would significantly change the game and an absolute ton of the mechanics would have to be redone, not least rebalancing melee and ranged damage to fit.
It wasn't an issue with you personally regarding DoW2 just that the main PR seems to like drawing comparisons with DoW2 to justify every change, the implication being that DoW2 was somehow bad. The latest interview with the game director was particularly bad for this (although that certainly wasn't helped by the awful interviewer. Seriously, the point of an interview is to ask questions, not to attempt to dismiss them while you're in the middle of asking them!).
The situation you describe is one that isn't really related to retreat as far as I'm concerned - it's the pretty standard melee/ranged dynamic
Well, that's a bit of a simplification. Retreating units move faster when retreating but also take more damage to melee units. The gameplay hinges on knowing the exact moment of when to hit the retreat button. Losing a unit in DoW2 was very punishing, so failing to learn where the invisible line was could snow ball quickly. it was a sensitive gameplay ecosystem.
I'm glad you mentioned CoH and SMGs - those close range unit were pretty specialized and didn't come until mid to late game. And volkgrenadiers squad upgraded still adequate at range and in cover. Banshees and sluggas don't have that utility.
I'm speaking frankly as a student of game design - I apologise if I've created that impression I'm rubbishing DoW2. It's been the defining game I've worked on in my career and obviously I am very proud of what my colleagues & I accomplished. There's plenty of little things we've taken forward that you haven't seen yet and will manifest in subtle ways. Unfortunately, because of the scale of DoW2 and DoW3 (the scale is even bigger than CoH) is so different not everything could come forward.
Just want to say DoW2 is one of my favorite games of all time and I have hundreds and hundreds of hours played. (I don't dare check how many)
It's very rough and always had a lot of issues, but the concepts and core gameplay makes it pretty much the best RTS I've ever played. I like that it easily integrates into team games where you can play with friends, which is something that traditional RTSs do very poorly.
I can only hope that there will be more innovative RTSs like DoW2, the warcraft/C&C formula feels very mined out.
I like the retreat mechanic in CoH/DoW2 because it really emphazises map control and multiple engagements. You don't have CoH matches where both players slowly build up and expand like you do some 45 minute matches of starcraft where mashing your giant armies together is too big a risk.
I guess the ultimate assymetry would be having different/no retreat mechanics for different races. I mean tactical disengagement and reforming for another assault is even right there as a special rule for Space Marines in WH40k... But any time you do a huge assymetry like that it's probably too much finnicky design work for it to work sufficiently well.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
I have fond memories of DoW2. Fond, fond memories of spore mines. Everywhere. Annihilating my units even when they retreated. Entire Tyranid armies of Spore Mines sneaking through the tunnels the Ravener Alpha had spawned all over the map, like some horrific alien Vietnam.
The biggest factor in the melee vs ranged debate for me was the leap that Hormagaunts, Warriors and Banshees had. You'd occasionally retreat a unit, and then watch a Hormagaunt make four or five consecutive leap attacks to kill one poor sod running for his life. It felt very appropriate for the setting.
(also @Vic_Hazard it's asymmetry, assymetry sounds like something very different)
The situation you describe is one that isn't really related to retreat as far as I'm concerned - it's the pretty standard melee/ranged dynamic
Well, that's a bit of a simplification. Retreating units move faster when retreating but also take more damage to melee units. The gameplay hinges on knowing the exact moment of when to hit the retreat button. Losing a unit in DoW2 was very punishing, so failing to learn where the invisible line was could snow ball quickly. it was a sensitive gameplay ecosystem.
I'm glad you mentioned CoH and SMGs - those close range unit were pretty specialized and didn't come until mid to late game. And volkgrenadiers squad upgraded still adequate at range and in cover. Banshees and sluggas don't have that utility.
I'm speaking frankly as a student of game design - I apologise if I've created that impression I'm rubbishing DoW2. It's been the defining game I've worked on in my career and obviously I am very proud of what my colleagues & I accomplished. There's plenty of little things we've taken forward that you haven't seen yet and will manifest in subtle ways. Unfortunately, because of the scale of DoW2 and DoW3 (the scale is even bigger than CoH) is so different not everything could come forward.
Just want to say DoW2 is one of my favorite games of all time and I have hundreds and hundreds of hours played. (I don't dare check how many)
It's very rough and always had a lot of issues, but the concepts and core gameplay makes it pretty much the best RTS I've ever played. I like that it easily integrates into team games where you can play with friends, which is something that traditional RTSs do very poorly.
I can only hope that there will be more innovative RTSs like DoW2, the warcraft/C&C formula feels very mined out.
I like the retreat mechanic in CoH/DoW2 because it really emphazises map control and multiple engagements. You don't have CoH matches where both players slowly build up and expand like you do some 45 minute matches of starcraft where mashing your giant armies together is too big a risk.
I guess the ultimate assymetry would be having different/no retreat mechanics for different races. I mean tactical disengagement and reforming for another assault is even right there as a special rule for Space Marines in WH40k... But any time you do a huge assymetry like that it's probably too much finnicky design work for it to work sufficiently well.
Certainly. Additionally, what does a mirror match between two sides who cannot retreat become then? It becomes a Starcraft 2 style game where large engagements tend to seal the match. Starcraft mitigates this by reinforcing economics in war. Production, expansion, and harrassment of resouces is often more important in Starcraft than the pivotal game-ending engagement itself. Whereas games like CoH and DoW2 have relatively static resource models for both players: only allowing them to improve special resources like energy, fuel and munitions. Yet I don't expect such "macro" heavy engagement from the players in DoW3.
I am a big fan of CoH and DoW2's emphasis on map control for resources and retreating as a powerful, but naturally costly to the map control, move. While there was a faux balance between melee and ranged it never was quite satisfying. There was an escalation in the need for burst damage sources to actually wipe things out in engagements. The game became more about swings that happened in split seconds.
These issues with balance exist in CoH as well, the reinforcement mechanic for squads naturally rewards killing them before they can retreat, but the melee/ranged polarization and exotic wargear exacerbates the issues more in DoW2.
there's faction mechanics going on, too, with that asymmetry. We've only showed SM's Death from Above, and it makes them so they're good at entering and sustaining battle but committed once deployed. Take one look at the Eldar and guess which race is best at disengaging. This is the first time we've had true skimmers and the Eldar are flying a couple different types in all those vids.
Matrias on
3DS/Pokemon Friend Code - 2122-5878-9273 - Kyle
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
I mean, if all "controlling a titan" means is calling in an artillery barrage or similar attack, you kind of did that in DoW 1 where you could activate the titan cannon near the end.
Did anyone else see that fan made CG movie that was posted on Youtube? One dude did most of it. I want to see more.
In case you haven't seen it, you should. It's a good 9 minutes that's going to really make me sad when GW sends him a Cease and Desist notice. Really impressive when you watch the credits and they're almost all the same name.
With the blessing of Games Workshop, The Lord Inquisitor is project for the fans, by fans, setting the grim-darkness of the forty-first millennium to film.
No cease and desist incoming unless GW decides to go back on their word.
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ExtreaminatusGo forth and amplify,the Noise Marines are here!Registered Userregular
Yeah. New GW is letting him go with it because New GW is 1000% better than Old GW.
Yeah. New GW is letting him go with it because New GW is 1000% better than Old GW.
Sorry for my cynicism then. Still getting used to this world where GW isn't terrible.
Which is made harder by my not following their company offerings outside of novels.
Because I want more imperial guard video games where I'm cannon fodder and just charging dudes to die and respawn as more fodder.
Sorta half joking...sorta
I saw a kid get handed a JB poster by who I presume was his parents outside my store today....he tore it in half infront of his horrified parents.....There's hope for our youth yet!
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ExtreaminatusGo forth and amplify,the Noise Marines are here!Registered Userregular
Everyone's still getting used to it, it's okay.
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NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
I'm guessing the niceness still goes away if you try monetizing stuff?
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
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ExtreaminatusGo forth and amplify,the Noise Marines are here!Registered Userregular
Well yeah, but that's just business. Old GW would have filed for this dude to be executed and for three generations in either direction imprisoned for making this.
The new direction GW is taking is way better. I mean, they're making a DoW III and it looks great.
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
Because I want more imperial guard video games where I'm cannon fodder and just charging dudes to die and respawn as more fodder.
Sorta half joking...sorta
I have this idea for a 40k Brothers in Arms with more tactical control I want made. You play as a commisar or a lieutenant and you have a wide battlefield to maneuver through as you control linemen, heavy weapons, and vehicles. This is aided by a map system where you can make quick swipes using the triggers and analog sticks to do movement orders and attack orders. (Obviously on PC too but simple enough commands for console as to not get cluttered).
Throne I wish I knew how to make vidya instead of going to school for a job with security.
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imdointhisI should actually stop doin' this.Registered Userregular
Because I want more imperial guard video games where I'm cannon fodder and just charging dudes to die and respawn as more fodder.
Sorta half joking...sorta
I have this idea for a 40k Brothers in Arms with more tactical control I want made. You play as a commisar or a lieutenant and you have a wide battlefield to maneuver through as you control linemen, heavy weapons, and vehicles. This is aided by a map system where you can make quick swipes using the triggers and analog sticks to do movement orders and attack orders. (Obviously on PC too but simple enough commands for console as to not get cluttered).
Throne I wish I knew how to make vidya instead of going to school for a job with security.
that almost sounds like the psp 40k game
a magnificent gem if ever there was one that flew completely under the radar
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
Because I want more imperial guard video games where I'm cannon fodder and just charging dudes to die and respawn as more fodder.
Sorta half joking...sorta
I have this idea for a 40k Brothers in Arms with more tactical control I want made. You play as a commisar or a lieutenant and you have a wide battlefield to maneuver through as you control linemen, heavy weapons, and vehicles. This is aided by a map system where you can make quick swipes using the triggers and analog sticks to do movement orders and attack orders. (Obviously on PC too but simple enough commands for console as to not get cluttered).
Throne I wish I knew how to make vidya instead of going to school for a job with security.
that almost sounds like the psp 40k game
a magnificent gem if ever there was one that flew completely under the radar
Because I want more imperial guard video games where I'm cannon fodder and just charging dudes to die and respawn as more fodder.
Sorta half joking...sorta
I have this idea for a 40k Brothers in Arms with more tactical control I want made. You play as a commisar or a lieutenant and you have a wide battlefield to maneuver through as you control linemen, heavy weapons, and vehicles. This is aided by a map system where you can make quick swipes using the triggers and analog sticks to do movement orders and attack orders. (Obviously on PC too but simple enough commands for console as to not get cluttered).
Throne I wish I knew how to make vidya instead of going to school for a job with security.
*fapfapfapfap*
Keep talking, just like that.
I'd love a brother in arms style game like that. Brother in arms was a pretty solid game too where they sort of forced you to support you squads.
I saw a kid get handed a JB poster by who I presume was his parents outside my store today....he tore it in half infront of his horrified parents.....There's hope for our youth yet!
It's an awesome fan-film but I always thought Holy Terra was considered "the most beautiful" world because everyone is told its an awesome place with the Emperor and stuff but in reality it's a heavily polluted hive city mess of a place. No ocean, very little non-human life, world wide smog... the constant death of thousands of psykers. The Holy Terra in the film has blue skies, birds and sunlight.
Posts
yes
https://medium.com/@alascii
I disagree entirely. It was a very well designed mechanic that integrated well with the overall design for DoW2 which strongly encouraged unit preservation vs map control.
we discuss some of it here.
it was a really tough time balancing the two. the melee unit charging a ranged unit was a very common early game occurrence, and it had the unintended consequence of making the core combat about being able to read an invisible line and knowing the exact moment when to hit retreat.
It works better in the context of CoH, which didn't have a melee component.
Agreed. And from the position of living the fantasy of callous general in the brutal 41st millennium it really broke my suspension of disbelief.
It worked really well when you're controlling the small groups of space marines in the single player but having ork boyz and guardians fighting like greased up wrestlers who can't do any damage to each other unless they get a lucky grenade isn't what most people come to 40k for.
https://medium.com/@alascii
And DoW2 did a pretty decent job of balancing it regardless. It gave some sort of reward for getting a melee unit engaged while still allowing some form of escape due to the increased run speed on retreat.
The situation you describe is one that isn't really related to retreat as far as I'm concerned - it's the pretty standard melee/ranged dynamic, and it's a problem that I'd near wager will come up in DoW3 anyway. If a ranged unit can simply run away from and kite a melee unit, the melee unit can't ever achieve much (which is in part why banshees were so useful in DoW2, they could engage and snare). If the melee unit is going to inflict significant damage on a ranged unit, you'll have to chose when to back out or lose the unit if you don't. It's a risk vs reward mechanic that has to be learnt in every RTS game where unit preservation is important. The same situation comes up in CoH2 even without melee units - if a relatively close range unit like sturmpioneers are charging an infantry section you have to make a judgement call on whether or not to back out and when. Getting it wrong can cost you, but that's part of the game. I'll agree it works better in CoH (unsurprising considering the mechanics were developed for it), but I don't think there was much wrong with the implementation in DoW2.
What irritates me is that the PR line for promoting DoW3 so far seems to be "rubbish DoW2 at every opportunity". Literally the only good thing I've seen Relic say about DoW2 is "hero units" which I consider to be a gross oversimplification of the game mechanics in DoW2.
Edit: just wanted to make clear I mean relic as a company, not you personally.
I'm glad you mentioned CoH and SMGs - those close range unit were pretty specialized and didn't come until mid to late game. And volkgrenadiers squad upgraded still adequate at range and in cover. Banshees and sluggas don't have that utility.
I'm speaking frankly as a student of game design - I apologise if I've created that impression I'm rubbishing DoW2. It's been the defining game I've worked on in my career and obviously I am very proud of what my colleagues & I accomplished. There's plenty of little things we've taken forward that you haven't seen yet and will manifest in subtle ways. Unfortunately, because of the scale of DoW2 and DoW3 (the scale is even bigger than CoH) is so different not everything could come forward.
I would expect them to function like artillery or aircraft call-ins like CoH2. Maybe a giant Titan foot smooshes the battlefield?
I thought it had been confirmed that that was referring to the Imperial Knight?
I mean, if all "controlling a titan" means is calling in an artillery barrage or similar attack, you kind of did that in DoW 1 where you could activate the titan cannon near the end.
I was taking the extra melee damage received into account, I considered it the "reward" for getting a melee unit engaged. I also chose Sturmpioneers as an example since they're the starting OKW unit. I wasn't quite sure what you meant by the "invisible line" mind, I was assuming it was just the 'point of no return' where backing out means you still lose the unit. Again, something I don't have a problem with (although yes, I'll agree the game ecosystem was quite sensitive). On the other hand, it could mean the pathing line back to the designated retreat point which is a much harder problem to fix, and wouldn't always be obvious. Again though I found it wasn't a problem most of the time and being intercepted could be considered good positional play by your opponent.
To go back a bit though, I started this because someone called retreat "very dumb and bad" which I think is very unfair. It made a lot of sense within the context of DoW2 and if it were removed from DoW2 it would significantly change the game and an absolute ton of the mechanics would have to be redone, not least rebalancing melee and ranged damage to fit.
It wasn't an issue with you personally regarding DoW2 just that the main PR seems to like drawing comparisons with DoW2 to justify every change, the implication being that DoW2 was somehow bad. The latest interview with the game director was particularly bad for this (although that certainly wasn't helped by the awful interviewer. Seriously, the point of an interview is to ask questions, not to attempt to dismiss them while you're in the middle of asking them!).
Just want to say DoW2 is one of my favorite games of all time and I have hundreds and hundreds of hours played. (I don't dare check how many)
It's very rough and always had a lot of issues, but the concepts and core gameplay makes it pretty much the best RTS I've ever played. I like that it easily integrates into team games where you can play with friends, which is something that traditional RTSs do very poorly.
I can only hope that there will be more innovative RTSs like DoW2, the warcraft/C&C formula feels very mined out.
I like the retreat mechanic in CoH/DoW2 because it really emphazises map control and multiple engagements. You don't have CoH matches where both players slowly build up and expand like you do some 45 minute matches of starcraft where mashing your giant armies together is too big a risk.
I guess the ultimate assymetry would be having different/no retreat mechanics for different races. I mean tactical disengagement and reforming for another assault is even right there as a special rule for Space Marines in WH40k... But any time you do a huge assymetry like that it's probably too much finnicky design work for it to work sufficiently well.
The biggest factor in the melee vs ranged debate for me was the leap that Hormagaunts, Warriors and Banshees had. You'd occasionally retreat a unit, and then watch a Hormagaunt make four or five consecutive leap attacks to kill one poor sod running for his life. It felt very appropriate for the setting.
(also @Vic_Hazard it's asymmetry, assymetry sounds like something very different)
Certainly. Additionally, what does a mirror match between two sides who cannot retreat become then? It becomes a Starcraft 2 style game where large engagements tend to seal the match. Starcraft mitigates this by reinforcing economics in war. Production, expansion, and harrassment of resouces is often more important in Starcraft than the pivotal game-ending engagement itself. Whereas games like CoH and DoW2 have relatively static resource models for both players: only allowing them to improve special resources like energy, fuel and munitions. Yet I don't expect such "macro" heavy engagement from the players in DoW3.
I am a big fan of CoH and DoW2's emphasis on map control for resources and retreating as a powerful, but naturally costly to the map control, move. While there was a faux balance between melee and ranged it never was quite satisfying. There was an escalation in the need for burst damage sources to actually wipe things out in engagements. The game became more about swings that happened in split seconds.
These issues with balance exist in CoH as well, the reinforcement mechanic for squads naturally rewards killing them before they can retreat, but the melee/ranged polarization and exotic wargear exacerbates the issues more in DoW2.
So great.
You know the one. The one to beat the Eldar off the map.
Hours of trying to mass the forces to make a push while Prism Tanks blew up your army from offscreen.
I still have nightmares.
uh. i guess you can't.
The skirmish mission in Soulstorm before the Eldar stronghold is even worse.
In case you haven't seen it, you should. It's a good 9 minutes that's going to really make me sad when GW sends him a Cease and Desist notice. Really impressive when you watch the credits and they're almost all the same name.
No cease and desist incoming unless GW decides to go back on their word.
Sorry for my cynicism then. Still getting used to this world where GW isn't terrible.
Which is made harder by my not following their company offerings outside of novels.
Because I want more imperial guard video games where I'm cannon fodder and just charging dudes to die and respawn as more fodder.
Sorta half joking...sorta
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
The new direction GW is taking is way better. I mean, they're making a DoW III and it looks great.
I have this idea for a 40k Brothers in Arms with more tactical control I want made. You play as a commisar or a lieutenant and you have a wide battlefield to maneuver through as you control linemen, heavy weapons, and vehicles. This is aided by a map system where you can make quick swipes using the triggers and analog sticks to do movement orders and attack orders. (Obviously on PC too but simple enough commands for console as to not get cluttered).
Throne I wish I knew how to make vidya instead of going to school for a job with security.
that almost sounds like the psp 40k game
a magnificent gem if ever there was one that flew completely under the radar
It would be first person and realtime though
*fapfapfapfap*
Keep talking, just like that.
I'd love a brother in arms style game like that. Brother in arms was a pretty solid game too where they sort of forced you to support you squads.