I made a post re: "respecting" the death of shitty people in the Jack Chick thread, and the tl;dr version is that even evil people usually have loved ones and folk they were decent to who probably mourn their passing. But if you're not those people? Fuck them. You don't owe those people some kind of level of post-mortem decency if their existence while alive like directly fucking harmed you and those you care about. Nobody is owed that.
At the same time, I have always said that vengeance is allowing the heinous people to exert control over you. It's giving something of yourself to those you hate. So there should be some kind of healthy upper limit to the catharsis you express when someone awful dies. Something akin to the relief you feel when you're done taking a really bad shit, or have gotten over a super awful flu. You're just happy it's done with and you're ready to move on.
I'm not going to make demands of other people's behavior because who the fuck am I to tell other people how to feel or conduct myself. But personally I believe that all life has value, even that of absolute shitbags who waste it all hurting people I care about. And I believe that everyone is owed a certain small baseline modicum of respect simply by merit of being a human being. So I don't celebrate deaths (at least, not in the sense of "ding dong the witch is dead") and find the concept a bit off-putting. But, again, that's a personal value and I do not judge anyone for feeling or behaving differently.
Which, while I can kind of understand their position as public policy negotiators, smacks pretty strongly of "fuck you, got mine"
Yeah this is hot garbage. Bigots gonna bigot not matter what "compromise" you toss their way. Besides this is no compromise; it's meeting them halfway between here and awfultown.
Which, while I can kind of understand their position as public policy negotiators, smacks pretty strongly of "fuck you, got mine"
Yeah this is hot garbage. Bigots gonna bigot not matter what "compromise" you toss their way. Besides this is no compromise; it's meeting them halfway between here and awfultown.
Also reminds me of that old quote:
"It will be us today. It will be you tomorrow."
I made a post re: "respecting" the death of shitty people in the Jack Chick thread, and the tl;dr version is that even evil people usually have loved ones and folk they were decent to who probably mourn their passing. But if you're not those people? Fuck them. You don't owe those people some kind of level of post-mortem decency if their existence while alive like directly fucking harmed you and those you care about. Nobody is owed that.
At the same time, I have always said that vengeance is allowing the heinous people to exert control over you. It's giving something of yourself to those you hate. So there should be some kind of healthy upper limit to the catharsis you express when someone awful dies. Something akin to the relief you feel when you're done taking a really bad shit, or have gotten over a super awful flu. You're just happy it's done with and you're ready to move on.
I'm not going to make demands of other people's behavior because who the fuck am I to tell other people how to feel or conduct myself. But personally I believe that all life has value, even that of absolute shitbags who waste it all hurting people I care about. And I believe that everyone is owed a certain small baseline modicum of respect simply by merit of being a human being. So I don't celebrate deaths (at least, not in the sense of "ding dong the witch is dead") and find the concept a bit off-putting. But, again, that's a personal value and I do not judge anyone for feeling or behaving differently.
man i'm sorry but i'm having a really difficult time reconciling the bolded line
this dude has done nothing but demonize us. there's no fucking value there.
By dropping public accommodations from the bills, they would mostly avoid the bathroom issue and religious objections. Transgender people, like LGB people, would be covered in housing and employment. But such a deal would allow, for example, business owners to reject gay customers and require transgender women to use male facilities.
That sort of concession breaks from years of consensus among LGBT leaders, who have tacitly agreed that civil rights bills in state legislatures or Congress should be all-inclusive. Anything less, the orthodoxy has gone, could betray transgender people who bear the brunt of discrimination in public.
If you support any part of the idea that I should have to compromise over any part of being treated like a human being: you're an enemy. End of story.
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Goes to show Fuck You, got Mine is part of the human condition, not just conservative pathology. And we need to fight it.
A condition with some proven history in otherwise celebrated history. Women's suffrage? Controlled by a bunch of white (and extremely racist) women who didn't even spare a thought for women of color. Second wave feminism pulled the same shit, AND left behind trans women to boot. There's a reason a lot of folk are so damn insistent on everything being intersectional (which itself often leaves folk with mental and physical disabilities out of the picture).
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+9
Metzger MeisterIt Gets Worsebefore it gets any better.Registered Userregular
Yeah fuck that. No one is equal until everyone is equal, full fucking stop.
+18
KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
It's a bit of a prisoners' dilemma. Some rights now, maybe no more later. Or no rights now, probably all later.
Its a shit proposition but the answer can't ever to be kick a smaller minority group to the curb just to get equal treatment for members of a slightly larger minority group
Especially when that group has been an ally literally the entire time
edit ally isn't even the right word because it is a closer/more integral connection than that I just don't know what the better word is
Trans folk (ESPECIALLY trans women of color) have been repeatedly kicked to the curb over and over. There is no dilemma - they're just gonna keep doing it if we let them.
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Sure, but the issue wasn't LGB vs T, it was public vs private. Everyone was covered privately, no one was covered publicly.
Transgender people, like LGB people, would be covered in housing and employment. But such a deal would allow, for example, business owners to reject gay customers and require transgender women to use male facilities.
I don't think it would've been the right option, there's no guarantee that there'd be later laws to cover the gaps, people are very good at saying 'eh, that's enough.' But I am sympathetic to the argument that some now is better than none.
I understand why folk are making the argument, but I'm utterly disgusted by how often it's been used as justification for not protecting trans folk. Sympathy is out of the question for me - shit like only adds to why trans women are largely considered punching bags by Western culture.
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I understand why folk are making the argument, but I'm utterly disgusted by how often it's been used as justification for not protecting trans folk. Sympathy is out of the question for me - shit like only adds to why trans women are largely considered punching bags by Western culture.
Yeeeep.
The big problem here is that whenever it comes time for a strategic compromise, the T part of LGBT is always the one that gets screwed.
It's happened enough that it pretty much sends the message that trans folk don't matter as much as cisgender gay folk.
And, uh, that's a pretty fucked up message for a group that's fighting for equality and the end of oppression to send.
When the difference between LGB rights in public and T rights in public is "We can't get a wedding cake at some store vs we can't go to the bathroom in a public restroom" it makes them willing to cut that out be all about trans people.
Sure, but the issue wasn't LGB vs T, it was public vs private. Everyone was covered privately, no one was covered publicly.
It's easy to call "nobody is covered publicly" fair when the other person is the one who bears the overwhelming brunt of public discrimination.
I am a woman, and I absolutely refuse to humiliate myself by ever using a men's room again (to speak nothing about the dramatic increase in risk of becoming a victim of assault that goes along with that). But I can't choose to never urinate again, nor can I choose to keep my mouth shut and "pass" for the day, so if somebody tells me "you aren't allowed to use a women's restroom", they're basically telling me "you are unfit to lead a public life, period". (I am privileged enough to live in a state where my bathroom rights are legally protected, but that doesn't make me any less angry about it when it happens elsewhere.)
Cis gay people just don't deal with anything close to that, in terms how personal, intimate, and inescapable the harassment is. There is absolutely no sense of, "Don't worry trans people, we're TOTALLY still all in this together even though we're dropping the public platform." It is very much just "this is a big deal for you and a small deal for us and we're in charge so go fuck yourselves."
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+17
Zxerolfor the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't doso i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered Userregular
With all these bathroom bills and general anti-trans sentiment making strides since gay marriage became a thing and people need a new scarier boogeyman to chase, when exactly is the time to fight for trans rights for the wait your turn folks?
There is a proven, verifiable, and reliable level of political and legal expedience to furthering your cause by planting a boot firmly on the cause of another. It's just a grim reality of human politics. There will always be a dark temptation to gain a quick and easy power grab for "your people" by othering "those people". Many resist, or don't let that temptation factor into their decision making at all, and that's good of them. But many more do realize just how easy it is, and so they do it time and time again. If it didn't work, people wouldn't do it. But it does work, at least insofar as it gives people an appreciably increased chance of success (even if sometimes it doesn't actually increase your chances of success).
"I'm not like those other folks, I'm just like you..."
Everyone should just listen to Depeche Mode and take People are People to heart. It's such a simple concept to just be fucking decent to people and maybe give them the Bill of Rights as promised in the Constitution, but instead there has to be some utterly pointless enemy we can shake our fists at and occasionally beat with sticks or worse.
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I'm not going to make demands of other people's behavior because who the fuck am I to tell other people how to feel or conduct myself. But personally I believe that all life has value, even that of absolute shitbags who waste it all hurting people I care about. And I believe that everyone is owed a certain small baseline modicum of respect simply by merit of being a human being. So I don't celebrate deaths (at least, not in the sense of "ding dong the witch is dead") and find the concept a bit off-putting. But, again, that's a personal value and I do not judge anyone for feeling or behaving differently.
In other news, the leader of the National Center for Transgender Equality and the Gill Foundation think it's okay to legalize public discrimination of transgender people if it means they also get legislation to further the private citizenry of the LGBT umbrella.
Which, while I can kind of understand their position as public policy negotiators, smacks pretty strongly of "fuck you, got mine"
A list of things, should you be of the gifting persuasion
well in a way it lets people "evolve", so
Here's a fantastic article written by a young intersex person who clearly outlines what it means to be like them, a lot of common misconceptions, and how you can support intersex folks.
Trade your testostrodon with your sister's estrodoll to get a deecups and...institutionalized misogyny, I guess
Is it transphobic if I call my krokorok Estrodile?
Is there a better poogle for that? I can only think of that one. I guess totodile. But fuck totodile.
Yeah this is hot garbage. Bigots gonna bigot not matter what "compromise" you toss their way. Besides this is no compromise; it's meeting them halfway between here and awfultown.
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Not until it's level 18
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Feraligatr is a much more experienced lover anyway
Totodile probably doesn't know its own strength
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Who is the most "daddy" of the starters, and why is it Blastoise?
"It will be us today. It will be you tomorrow."
man i'm sorry but i'm having a really difficult time reconciling the bolded line
this dude has done nothing but demonize us. there's no fucking value there.
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Emboar tho
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Top LGBT Leaders Are Divided Over Compromising On The Bathroom Fight
If you support any part of the idea that I should have to compromise over any part of being treated like a human being: you're an enemy. End of story.
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like
fuck
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A condition with some proven history in otherwise celebrated history. Women's suffrage? Controlled by a bunch of white (and extremely racist) women who didn't even spare a thought for women of color. Second wave feminism pulled the same shit, AND left behind trans women to boot. There's a reason a lot of folk are so damn insistent on everything being intersectional (which itself often leaves folk with mental and physical disabilities out of the picture).
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Especially when that group has been an ally literally the entire time
edit ally isn't even the right word because it is a closer/more integral connection than that I just don't know what the better word is
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I don't think it would've been the right option, there's no guarantee that there'd be later laws to cover the gaps, people are very good at saying 'eh, that's enough.' But I am sympathetic to the argument that some now is better than none.
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Yeeeep.
The big problem here is that whenever it comes time for a strategic compromise, the T part of LGBT is always the one that gets screwed.
It's happened enough that it pretty much sends the message that trans folk don't matter as much as cisgender gay folk.
And, uh, that's a pretty fucked up message for a group that's fighting for equality and the end of oppression to send.
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It's blatantly absurd.
I am a woman, and I absolutely refuse to humiliate myself by ever using a men's room again (to speak nothing about the dramatic increase in risk of becoming a victim of assault that goes along with that). But I can't choose to never urinate again, nor can I choose to keep my mouth shut and "pass" for the day, so if somebody tells me "you aren't allowed to use a women's restroom", they're basically telling me "you are unfit to lead a public life, period". (I am privileged enough to live in a state where my bathroom rights are legally protected, but that doesn't make me any less angry about it when it happens elsewhere.)
Cis gay people just don't deal with anything close to that, in terms how personal, intimate, and inescapable the harassment is. There is absolutely no sense of, "Don't worry trans people, we're TOTALLY still all in this together even though we're dropping the public platform." It is very much just "this is a big deal for you and a small deal for us and we're in charge so go fuck yourselves."
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"I'm not like those other folks, I'm just like you..."
Precisely. All rights now. Nothing else is acceptable.