This Sapochnik guy is good. Knows the power of symbols, painterly composition to his shots, good sense of restraint. He's good.
The writing? Just shit. I have no remaining excuses for the writing.
I guess I just don't know what constitutes good writing anymore, fuck it.
I mean, is "bad writing" the new "sharp elbows"?
No, it's just bad writing.
Oh, ok.
Worst written show ever, apparently?
It's such a vague term and seemingly used arbitrarily, I really don't put much stock in it.
Plots have to be written... and the plot here has come together beautifully.
Yeah it's totally the worst written show ever.
Just going by reactions here from people, apparently it is.
Mostly it's just you picking on particular posters, because if I do a count of the last 5 pages it's like 1 person who said the writing was bad and you responding to it by equating that person's opinions to an internet meme about guys who can't get laid and are overly critical of women's physical appearances.
Sure did make it back to Meereen from Dorne really fucking fast
Time is implied to have passed.
Others with better eyes spotted Tyrell and Martell insignia on some of the ships sailing from Meereen. So they had time to ready ships and sailors to take Varys back to Meereen and team up with Dany before everyone set sail.
Danny has:
The Dothraki
The Unsullied
Drone
The Reach (second largest army in Westeros alone!)
Part of the Iron Islands
Jon has:
The North
The Nightswatch (?)
Littlefinger has:
The Vale
Cersei has:
What ever the Lanisters have left (Crownlands, Stormlands, and Westerlands?)
The Riverlands (?)
The Iron Islands are all alone under Euron
Not if Sansa if okay with King Jon
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Podlyyou unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered Userregular
wow, the music in that episode was fantastic. i literally thought my audio was screwed up, because i don' think that a piano has been used once in the score of GoT. it actually took me out of the episode for the first few minutes, but once i settled in it was WONDERFUL. the ostinato part using the main theme, the montage editing, it might have been the most sophisticated/artistic piece in the history of the show. then the way they started weaving in other leitmotifs while still having a cohesive score, and ending
with different dany themes in major keys, simply fantastic
also the cut from the tower of joy to jon was perfect.
wow, the music in that episode was fantastic. i literally thought my audio was screwed up, because i don' think that a piano has been used once in the score of GoT. it actually took me out of the episode for the first few minutes, but once i settled in it was WONDERFUL. the ostinato part using the main theme, the montage editing, it might have been the most sophisticated/artistic piece in the history of the show. then the way they started weaving in other leitmotifs while still having a cohesive score, and ending
with different dany themes in major keys, simply fantastic
also the cut from the tower of joy to jon was perfect.
Yeah, the initial part
Where they were getting dressed to the Godfather-like piano was really a strange wall to hit. It ended up being a well-done, if not brave, choice to do.
Seriously, this Sapochnik guy can direct the shit out of some television.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
This Sapochnik guy is good. Knows the power of symbols, painterly composition to his shots, good sense of restraint. He's good.
The writing? Just shit. I have no remaining excuses for the writing.
I guess I just don't know what constitutes good writing anymore, fuck it.
I mean, is "bad writing" the new "sharp elbows"?
No, it's just bad writing.
Oh, ok.
Worst written show ever, apparently?
It's such a vague term and seemingly used arbitrarily, I really don't put much stock in it.
Plots have to be written... and the plot here has come together beautifully.
Yeah it's totally the worst written show ever.
Just going by reactions here from people, apparently it is.
Mostly it's just you picking on particular posters, because if I do a count of the last 5 pages it's like 1 person who said the writing was bad and you responding to it by equating that person's opinions to an internet meme about guys who can't get laid and are overly critical of women's physical appearances.
It's a vague, barely-there criticism that can mean anything.
I mean, what's bad writing? Are we discounting all of the things that shows are required to write in the script, like setting, (sometimes) music, atmosphere, scenery, actions? Are we talking about fleshing out the plotlines? Dialogue? It's a huge generality, it's like someone walking into a music thread and simply saying "bad guitar playing".
Also, doing a search in the last thread is much more informative.
jungleroomx on
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
Podlyyou unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered Userregular
yeah i definitely want this guy to do every god damn episode from here out PAY THE MAN HBO!!!!
they really could have beat us over the head with JON IS A TARG!!!! but putting us in bran's perspective where he can't hear it either and then cutting from babby jon to adult jon was a great way to let cinematic language tell us
i'm assuming bran one way or another learns what was said and it becomes useful in the near future. like either he stayed greenseeing for a while and rewatched it and got in super close or maybe he even wargs into his father and learns his thoughts
Darth Cersei. It's basically a supervillain origin story. Now she's a grief-mad paranoid queen with no children, served by an evil necro-alchemist and a hulking undead warrior. And she's got that outfit!
I don't see how the Lannisters have any hope whatsoever against Dany's army and her dragons. If that isn't short war, I'd be disappointed. The real question is how much conflict there will be between Stark and Targaryen, and how Littlefinger will try to fuck with the King in the North. It seems like Bran and his vision will be the key to uniting Jon and Dany. This seems to be season 7's arc.
I still don't think we're going to see Dany and Jon defeating the Night King with her dragons. That's too high fantasy. Still think we'll see the battle happen and the necromancy will be too much to fight, or something like that -- there will be some other solution involving the origin of the Walkers as eldritch living weapons built to destroy humans, and whatever their grievance is against the Children of the Forest. I guess that's the final season, whether I'm right or wrong.
I also still kinda think Jaime will slay a dragon. Book Jaime was all about building a story for his life, and being the Knight of the Golden Hand is good, but inverting his slayer moniker would be perfect (and he's already kinda slain a dragon...)
Cersei is going to put Qyburn's
necromancy to full use and make an army of zombies.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
yeah i definitely want this guy to do every god damn episode from here out PAY THE MAN HBO!!!!
they really could have beat us over the head with JON IS A TARG!!!! but putting us in bran's perspective where he can't hear it either and then cutting from babby jon to adult jon was a great way to let cinematic language tell us
i'm assuming bran one way or another learns what was said and it becomes useful in the near future. like either he stayed greenseeing for a while and rewatched it and got in super close or maybe he even wargs into his father and learns his thoughts
As long as the guy who directed ep 8 never touches a GoT script again Ill be okay.
I would prefer Sapochnik to do everything, because god damn, but I have a feeling they divide directorial duties for a reason.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Also, this episode gave me a great idea.
Instead of waterboarding, wineboarding. Torture doesn't yield reliable intel, so instead of just making them feel like they're drowning, get them good and pissed and they'll eventually slur out something actionable.
Gonna be awkward as fuck when he comes back to Winterfell, saying "Alright guys, I hear my big bro died a few years back, good thing I finally got back for my inauguration. Gonna be good to have a Stark king here again, right?" and then he looks and sees Jon with his crown on his throne.
I feel like he wouldn't mind. He's the 3 eyed Raven and can't walk so I hunk he'd be fine with someone else taking the job
It's late and I'm sleepy so this is sort of rambly, but
I will say that something that feels like it's missing from these more recent seasons, that the earlier seasons had been so strong at has been a sense of like, character pathos. In this season characters DO a lot of things, but it really doesn't feel like it has that same excellence in dialogue and creating complicated characters. Like, in the earlier battles there's a real sense of ambivalence, because there's good in all of these characters and yet they all want to kill each other. We want Tyrion to survive but we also want Robb to win the war. We emphasize with Cersei and her desperate but powerless desire to protect her children in the battle of the Blackwater, even as we're sort of rooting for Stannis to seize the city and kill them all? Even fighting the wildlings, we want Jon to win the fight and we also kinda want Jon to fuck off from the Night's Watch and go and live as a wildling with Ygritte. Everyone was the hero of their own story. And there was a real pleasure in each of these characters getting their time to explain their worldview.
This season didn't feel like it had much of that, there was lots of people doing things but it's kind of lost the fun of its dialogues. The strength of this show used to be taking 2 or 3 really good actors and putting them in a room together and bouncing off each other. The style of storytelling feels like it's changed, and we're being given much more obvious Good Guys and Bad Guy coalitions. Battle of the Bastards had no moral complications, no questioning. In the books the revenge on both the Freys and the Boltons feels more complicated, the Boltons are essentially the heroes of a slasher film, stranded in the boonies surrounded by inbred hill folk that want to kill them, and the revenge meted upon them is so gruesome and furious you have to sort of question who exactly holds the moral high ground, if there even can be such a thing. Same deal with the Freys and the Brotherhood, new cycles of blood feuds are starting up that promise to last for generations.
The Hound coming back felt like an obvious sign of that. We get someone who's almost Septon Meribald, but where Meribald's speech addressed about the overall themes of the story and the horrors of war, Septon Swearengen just kind of existed so he could get killed and send the Hound off seeking murder again. When he runs into the Brotherhood they all kinda get along, even though they should hate each other, because everyone likes the Hound and everyone likes the Brotherhood. Bronn used to be a morally complicated figure, a killer for hire who would happily betray Tyrion if it meant a better paycheck. Now he's just kinda everybody's best friend, because everyone likes Bronn.
I dunno, I feel like it's becoming a more conventional show which emphasizes plot and not trying to challenge its audience as much anymore.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
So did they just drop the whole plotline about the alliance Tyrion made with the Red Priests? There were a few short scenes showing the Red Priests preaching in Mereen to pacify the city but it was kind of implied that female Red Priest who freaked Varys out was going to be taking part in meetings with the ruling council and her goal was to become an advisor for Dany. But then she just disappeared, and nothing was really said about the Red Priests afterwards.
Also, I was expecting Melissandre to reveal that the death of Shireen was the price that had to be paid to resurrect Jon since only death can pay for life.
So did they just drop the whole plotline about the alliance Tyrion made with the Red Priests? There were a few short scenes showing the Red Priests preaching in Mereen to pacify the city but it was kind of implied that female Red Priest who freaked Varys out was going to be taking part in meetings with the ruling council and her goal was to become an advisor for Dany. But then she just disappeared, and nothing was really said about the Red Priests afterwards.
Also, I was expecting Melissandre to reveal that the death of Shireen was the price that had to be paid to resurrect Jon since only death can pay for life.
"Only death can pay for life" is a Faceless Men thing, I believe
I think Melissandre fucked up by not immediately and profusely apologizing for Shireen, for the mistake that it was. She stopped with just the explanation for why she did it, without also saying "AND I WAS 100% ABSOLUTELY WRONG ABOUT MY GOD BEING OKAY WITH BURNING CHILDREN. ITS WHAT I WAS TAUGHT IN PRIEST SCHOOL. I THOUGHT THAT'S HOW IT WAS SUPPOSED TO WORK. I'M SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SORRY DAVOS."
But no, she seemed to be holding on to a bit of pride. Made it seem like she still thinks burning people alive is something her god wants.
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Giggles_FunsworthBlight on DiscourseBay Area SprawlRegistered Userregular
Instead of waterboarding, wineboarding. Torture doesn't yield reliable intel, so instead of just making them feel like they're drowning, get them good and pissed and they'll eventually slur out something actionable.
Hire me, CIA.
Clearly you've never heard of Freedom Boarding, were invented by some extremely bored and drunk friends at a campsite looking to get even drunker in a creative fashion. Involves an American flag and a handle of bourbon. Is even worse than waterboarding because it hurts like hell when it gets in your eyes or up your nose, which most of it does so you barely even get drunk.
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Podlyyou unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered Userregular
Ah! The famous movement from Schubert's Piano Trio in E-flat! That's what the music reminded me of. Sort of like a John Adams take on it.
It's late and I'm sleepy so this is sort of rambly, but
I will say that something that feels like it's missing from these more recent seasons, that the earlier seasons had been so strong at has been a sense of like, character pathos. In this season characters DO a lot of things, but it really doesn't feel like it has that same excellence in dialogue and creating complicated characters. Like, in the earlier battles there's a real sense of ambivalence, because there's good in all of these characters and yet they all want to kill each other. We want Tyrion to survive but we also want Robb to win the war. We emphasize with Cersei and her desperate but powerless desire to protect her children in the battle of the Blackwater, even as we're sort of rooting for Stannis to seize the city and kill them all? Even fighting the wildlings, we want Jon to win the fight and we also kinda want Jon to fuck off from the Night's Watch and go and live as a wildling with Ygritte. Everyone was the hero of their own story. And there was a real pleasure in each of these characters getting their time to explain their worldview.
This season didn't feel like it had much of that, there was lots of people doing things but it's kind of lost the fun of its dialogues. The strength of this show used to be taking 2 or 3 really good actors and putting them in a room together and bouncing off each other. The style of storytelling feels like it's changed, and we're being given much more obvious Good Guys and Bad Guy coalitions. Battle of the Bastards had no moral complications, no questioning. In the books the revenge on both the Freys and the Boltons feels more complicated, the Boltons are essentially the heroes of a slasher film, stranded in the boonies surrounded by inbred hill folk that want to kill them, and the revenge meted upon them is so gruesome and furious you have to sort of question who exactly holds the moral high ground, if there even can be such a thing. Same deal with the Freys and the Brotherhood, new cycles of blood feuds are starting up that promise to last for generations.
The Hound coming back felt like an obvious sign of that. We get someone who's almost Septon Meribald, but where Meribald's speech addressed about the overall themes of the story and the horrors of war, Septon Swearengen just kind of existed so he could get killed and send the Hound off seeking murder again. When he runs into the Brotherhood they all kinda get along, even though they should hate each other, because everyone likes the Hound and everyone likes the Brotherhood. Bronn used to be a morally complicated figure, a killer for hire who would happily betray Tyrion if it meant a better paycheck. Now he's just kinda everybody's best friend, because everyone likes Bronn.
I dunno, I feel like it's becoming a more conventional show which emphasizes plot and not trying to challenge its audience as much anymore.
I feel you in a way, but we gotta get spoilery here:
The Battle of the Bastards was won by (I still feel) the main villain of the series. It had some huge complications because Littlefinger won the battle that is now going to pit him against the Starks. That's a huge complication.
Cersei vs the Sparrows. Yes, the Sparrows were bad, but so is Cersei. So, no matter who won, a villain would win.
Arya is venturing into bad guy territory even though she's a Stark and she cut the throat of Frey.
Dany's actual ruling is still teetering between being the Breaker of Chains or Burn Them All.
The White Walkers aren't villains, they're weapons working as intended by a race of creatures trying to defend themselves from mankind itself.
Bran is responsible for the mental crippling and death of Hodor, which is fucking horrible. He may still yet be responsible for even more.
Bronns kind of been everyones best bud since S2. We all love Bronn.
Jamie Lannister is a human being around Brienne but that's it, which sucks because we know he can be a good dude. He just doesn't.
I mean, there's plenty of complication. It's not like the show hasn't used Black and White before, since it started off with Obvious Evil King Joffrey vs. Obvious Good Guy Ned, Daenerys vs Viserys, etc.
I also get what you're saying, but I feel the trimming of huge amounts of storylines in this season closer will go a long way to making the show a lot more compact, giving each individual thread more attention as opposed to a sprawing, 12 storyline flustercuck.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Overall a really enjoyable episode. I think it felt like catharsis for a lot of people. And it also set up a lot of crazy shit so we desperately want to see what happens in the aftermath.
Some random nitpicking:
-Lancel's scene was a little too long. Also, his whole dragging-across-the-floor thing was super cliche. But it worked, and the music was amazeballs so you could show literally anything on screen and I'd just rock out to the music.
-Would've been hilarious if they had the Mountain poke out Shame Nun's eyes in the same way he crushed Oberyn's skull (i.e., just the thumbs, please). Womp womp.
-The whole Dorne thing, ugh. Only the Queen of Thorns saved that scene. They should've had Doran come out alive, with Ellaria and the Sand Snakes killed after they murdered Trystane and Myrcella. Then they could've had the reveal with him in league with Varys the whole time, lamenting that his plan didn't have a chance to come to fruition (e.g., Myrcella as a hostage and Trystane lined up to marry Daenerys). Then he could scheme with the Queen of Thorns. Instead we get Revenge Lady and Barbara Sand. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz. OR! they could've shown Varys and Doran in league the whole time with the plan to marry Trystane and Daenarys, only to have Doran die, which is the impetus that causes Varys to go back and fix his plans. I dunno, something to make it like, better. Dorne just sucks, OK?
-Not sure why they didn't have Walder Frey actually eat some pie instead of just look at a piece?
-Sansa says, "Winter is here" instead of "Winter has come". I know, kind of silly, but like, the word is right there.
So did they just drop the whole plotline about the alliance Tyrion made with the Red Priests? There were a few short scenes showing the Red Priests preaching in Mereen to pacify the city but it was kind of implied that female Red Priest who freaked Varys out was going to be taking part in meetings with the ruling council and her goal was to become an advisor for Dany. But then she just disappeared, and nothing was really said about the Red Priests afterwards.
Also, I was expecting Melissandre to reveal that the death of Shireen was the price that had to be paid to resurrect Jon since only death can pay for life.
"Only death can pay for life" is a Faceless Men thing, I believe
I think Melissandre fucked up by not immediately and profusely apologizing for Shireen, for the mistake that it was. She stopped with just the explanation for why she did it, without also saying "AND I WAS 100% ABSOLUTELY WRONG ABOUT MY GOD BEING OKAY WITH BURNING CHILDREN. ITS WHAT I WAS TAUGHT IN PRIEST SCHOOL. I THOUGHT THAT'S HOW IT WAS SUPPOSED TO WORK. I'M SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SORRY DAVOS."
But no, she seemed to be holding on to a bit of pride. Made it seem like she still thinks burning people alive is something her god wants.
Mirri Maz Dur was the first person to say "only death pays for life" when Dany asked her to save Khal Drogo. She sacrificed Dany's unborn child to prevent Drogo from dying. And it's implied that Mirri Maz Dur's death is what brought the dragons back.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Overall a really enjoyable episode. I think it felt like catharsis for a lot of people. And it also set up a lot of crazy shit so we desperately want to see what happens in the aftermath.
Some random nitpicking:
-Lancel's scene was a little too long. Also, his whole dragging-across-the-floor thing was super cliche. But it worked, and the music was amazeballs so you could show literally anything on screen and I'd just rock out to the music.
-Would've been hilarious if they had the Mountain poke out Shame Nun's eyes in the same way he crushed Oberyn's skull (i.e., just the thumbs, please). Womp womp.
-The whole Dorne thing, ugh. Only the Queen of Thorns saved that scene. They should've had Doran come out alive, with Ellaria and the Sand Snakes killed after they murdered Trystane and Myrcella. Then they could've had the reveal with him in league with Varys the whole time, lamenting that his plan didn't have a chance to come to fruition (e.g., Myrcella as a hostage and Trystane lined up to marry Daenerys). Then he could scheme with the Queen of Thorns. Instead we get Revenge Lady and Barbara Sand. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz. OR! they could've shown Varys and Doran in league the whole time with the plan to marry Trystane and Daenarys, only to have Doran die, which is the impetus that causes Varys to go back and fix his plans. I dunno, something to make it like, better. Dorne just sucks, OK?
-Not sure why they didn't have Walder Frey actually eat some pie instead of just look at a piece?
-Sansa says, "Winter is here" instead of "Winter has come". I know, kind of silly, but like, the word is right there.
Addressing:
Walder was eating a slice of it when the scene started, going for seconds I believe. The pie already had a piece out and he was the only one there.
Watch the nun scene again. Watch the mountains arms move. I'm almost 100% certain he jabbed her eyes out. I didn't catch it until a second viewing.
jungleroomx on
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
logistics
From a logistics standpoint you'd think they'd set sail from Dorne and not Mereene. It's a shorter trip.
Although if you can hand wave it away in script I guess it doesn't matter too much.
If ever there was an episode best watched either with Headphones or Surround Sound, that was it. The music this episode practically made this a different show.
Also over the weekend I had a laugh when I saw a bookmaker advertising odds for the first person killed in episode 10 (selected from a list so not including randoms and minor characters)
I hope whoever made that list thought to include Pycel or otherwise they are in some serious trouble.
I happened to look away from the screen at the exact point tommen went out the window and was really confused by the end of the episode. I thought Cersai had hidden him away and faked that he died in the sept.
the clerk was one of our favorite parts. He played the perfect snooty hotel check-in clerk. A well done humor interjection.
John/Sansa
our group thought Sansa looked fine, almost happy, that the Lord's were rallying to John. I think she has what she wants, and doesn't care about ruling. Littlefinger on the other hand, not so thrilled.
This Sapochnik guy is good. Knows the power of symbols, painterly composition to his shots, good sense of restraint. He's good.
The writing? Just shit. I have no remaining excuses for the writing.
I guess I just don't know what constitutes good writing anymore, fuck it.
I mean, is "bad writing" the new "sharp elbows"?
No, it's just bad writing.
Oh, ok.
Worst written show ever, apparently?
It's such a vague term and seemingly used arbitrarily, I really don't put much stock in it.
Plots have to be written... and the plot here has come together beautifully.
There are still room for some complaints. Overall I loved this episode but:
Sam's line seemed like it should have been last episode. Out of place and even then I wasn't a fan of the clerk. Arya is a lost cause to me right now even though she killed Walder making her reaction like a "psycho" instead of pragmatic I didnt care for (directing choice I suppose). And Danys arc could have been compressed, Tyrion was wasted this season till tonight IMHO, a bit I think as it was pretty weak until tonight. Overall positive on the season but it had its distinct issues with being the first post book season. Even with the criticism of the last couple seasons before they still had "better", yes opinion, dialogue pools to pull from.
And that's absolutely fair.
I think
Arya's entire arc was poorly written. It pulled a Stephen King Movie move and just shit out on the execution. I haven't felt the same love for Tyrion this season because he was reduced to a bit player instead of the focus. I've felt the dialogue has improved over the course of the season, however, even if it is a bit less flowery and fleshed out in comparison to the first or second. I didn't mind the Sam part because it was just like a "hey, remember him? Also, check out this fucking library", which was cool because it didn't interrupt the more focused scope of the last episode. This one was all about tying up loose ends and moving things forward, and Sams felt like it would fit better in the last episode to me. It just matched the theme, I feel, moreso than BoTB.
Yea, I am among the first to beat the "bad writing" drum but nothing really caught my eye this episode. It was very solid in it's flow. I think some of the King's Landing stuff doesn't hold up under close examination but that was Fridge Logic stuff which is fine.
Sam's thing is going to annoy me because next season the Citadel is going to be a series of small rooms without that same kind of CGI super library shot again. (Also the book chains were weird.) I think I would have been fine with the establishing shot and him explaining to Gilly what all the white ravens mean.
BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
The Sept of Baelor was suitably fantastic, but Tommen's suicide was by far the biggest moment of the episode for me. It's so simple and so complex at the same moment.
Posts
Mostly it's just you picking on particular posters, because if I do a count of the last 5 pages it's like 1 person who said the writing was bad and you responding to it by equating that person's opinions to an internet meme about guys who can't get laid and are overly critical of women's physical appearances.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Time is implied to have passed.
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This has got to be a joke right? I am just not seeing the punchline or something.
Because that was not a terribly written episode.
That was all kinds of horrifying and awesome.
The Dothraki
The Unsullied
Drone
The Reach (second largest army in Westeros alone!)
Part of the Iron Islands
Jon has:
The North
The Nightswatch (?)
Littlefinger has:
The Vale
Cersei has:
What ever the Lanisters have left (Crownlands, Stormlands, and Westerlands?)
The Riverlands (?)
The Iron Islands are all alone under Euron
Not if Sansa if okay with King Jon
also the cut from the tower of joy to jon was perfect.
Yeah, the initial part
Seriously, this Sapochnik guy can direct the shit out of some television.
It's a vague, barely-there criticism that can mean anything.
I mean, what's bad writing? Are we discounting all of the things that shows are required to write in the script, like setting, (sometimes) music, atmosphere, scenery, actions? Are we talking about fleshing out the plotlines? Dialogue? It's a huge generality, it's like someone walking into a music thread and simply saying "bad guitar playing".
Also, doing a search in the last thread is much more informative.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
i'm assuming bran one way or another learns what was said and it becomes useful in the near future. like either he stayed greenseeing for a while and rewatched it and got in super close or maybe he even wargs into his father and learns his thoughts
Cersei is going to put Qyburn's
As long as the guy who directed ep 8 never touches a GoT script again Ill be okay.
I would prefer Sapochnik to do everything, because god damn, but I have a feeling they divide directorial duties for a reason.
Hire me, CIA.
I feel like he wouldn't mind. He's the 3 eyed Raven and can't walk so I hunk he'd be fine with someone else taking the job
I will say that something that feels like it's missing from these more recent seasons, that the earlier seasons had been so strong at has been a sense of like, character pathos. In this season characters DO a lot of things, but it really doesn't feel like it has that same excellence in dialogue and creating complicated characters. Like, in the earlier battles there's a real sense of ambivalence, because there's good in all of these characters and yet they all want to kill each other. We want Tyrion to survive but we also want Robb to win the war. We emphasize with Cersei and her desperate but powerless desire to protect her children in the battle of the Blackwater, even as we're sort of rooting for Stannis to seize the city and kill them all? Even fighting the wildlings, we want Jon to win the fight and we also kinda want Jon to fuck off from the Night's Watch and go and live as a wildling with Ygritte. Everyone was the hero of their own story. And there was a real pleasure in each of these characters getting their time to explain their worldview.
This season didn't feel like it had much of that, there was lots of people doing things but it's kind of lost the fun of its dialogues. The strength of this show used to be taking 2 or 3 really good actors and putting them in a room together and bouncing off each other. The style of storytelling feels like it's changed, and we're being given much more obvious Good Guys and Bad Guy coalitions. Battle of the Bastards had no moral complications, no questioning. In the books the revenge on both the Freys and the Boltons feels more complicated, the Boltons are essentially the heroes of a slasher film, stranded in the boonies surrounded by inbred hill folk that want to kill them, and the revenge meted upon them is so gruesome and furious you have to sort of question who exactly holds the moral high ground, if there even can be such a thing. Same deal with the Freys and the Brotherhood, new cycles of blood feuds are starting up that promise to last for generations.
The Hound coming back felt like an obvious sign of that. We get someone who's almost Septon Meribald, but where Meribald's speech addressed about the overall themes of the story and the horrors of war, Septon Swearengen just kind of existed so he could get killed and send the Hound off seeking murder again. When he runs into the Brotherhood they all kinda get along, even though they should hate each other, because everyone likes the Hound and everyone likes the Brotherhood. Bronn used to be a morally complicated figure, a killer for hire who would happily betray Tyrion if it meant a better paycheck. Now he's just kinda everybody's best friend, because everyone likes Bronn.
I dunno, I feel like it's becoming a more conventional show which emphasizes plot and not trying to challenge its audience as much anymore.
Oh my gosh I'll never grow tired of these
Also, I was expecting Melissandre to reveal that the death of Shireen was the price that had to be paid to resurrect Jon since only death can pay for life.
"Only death can pay for life" is a Faceless Men thing, I believe
I think Melissandre fucked up by not immediately and profusely apologizing for Shireen, for the mistake that it was. She stopped with just the explanation for why she did it, without also saying "AND I WAS 100% ABSOLUTELY WRONG ABOUT MY GOD BEING OKAY WITH BURNING CHILDREN. ITS WHAT I WAS TAUGHT IN PRIEST SCHOOL. I THOUGHT THAT'S HOW IT WAS SUPPOSED TO WORK. I'M SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SORRY DAVOS."
But no, she seemed to be holding on to a bit of pride. Made it seem like she still thinks burning people alive is something her god wants.
I feel you in a way, but we gotta get spoilery here:
Cersei vs the Sparrows. Yes, the Sparrows were bad, but so is Cersei. So, no matter who won, a villain would win.
Arya is venturing into bad guy territory even though she's a Stark and she cut the throat of Frey.
Dany's actual ruling is still teetering between being the Breaker of Chains or Burn Them All.
The White Walkers aren't villains, they're weapons working as intended by a race of creatures trying to defend themselves from mankind itself.
Bran is responsible for the mental crippling and death of Hodor, which is fucking horrible. He may still yet be responsible for even more.
Bronns kind of been everyones best bud since S2. We all love Bronn.
Jamie Lannister is a human being around Brienne but that's it, which sucks because we know he can be a good dude. He just doesn't.
I mean, there's plenty of complication. It's not like the show hasn't used Black and White before, since it started off with Obvious Evil King Joffrey vs. Obvious Good Guy Ned, Daenerys vs Viserys, etc.
I also get what you're saying, but I feel the trimming of huge amounts of storylines in this season closer will go a long way to making the show a lot more compact, giving each individual thread more attention as opposed to a sprawing, 12 storyline flustercuck.
Some random nitpicking:
-Would've been hilarious if they had the Mountain poke out Shame Nun's eyes in the same way he crushed Oberyn's skull (i.e., just the thumbs, please). Womp womp.
-The whole Dorne thing, ugh. Only the Queen of Thorns saved that scene. They should've had Doran come out alive, with Ellaria and the Sand Snakes killed after they murdered Trystane and Myrcella. Then they could've had the reveal with him in league with Varys the whole time, lamenting that his plan didn't have a chance to come to fruition (e.g., Myrcella as a hostage and Trystane lined up to marry Daenerys). Then he could scheme with the Queen of Thorns. Instead we get Revenge Lady and Barbara Sand. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz. OR! they could've shown Varys and Doran in league the whole time with the plan to marry Trystane and Daenarys, only to have Doran die, which is the impetus that causes Varys to go back and fix his plans. I dunno, something to make it like, better. Dorne just sucks, OK?
-Not sure why they didn't have Walder Frey actually eat some pie instead of just look at a piece?
-Sansa says, "Winter is here" instead of "Winter has come". I know, kind of silly, but like, the word is right there.
Mirri Maz Dur was the first person to say "only death pays for life" when Dany asked her to save Khal Drogo. She sacrificed Dany's unborn child to prevent Drogo from dying. And it's implied that Mirri Maz Dur's death is what brought the dragons back.
Addressing:
Watch the nun scene again. Watch the mountains arms move. I'm almost 100% certain he jabbed her eyes out. I didn't catch it until a second viewing.
Although if you can hand wave it away in script I guess it doesn't matter too much.
Also over the weekend I had a laugh when I saw a bookmaker advertising odds for the first person killed in episode 10 (selected from a list so not including randoms and minor characters)
I don't care if the writers say otherwise.
John/Sansa
Yea and Jon practically has a white wolf at his heels in all his scenes.
Oh, wait.
Yea, I am among the first to beat the "bad writing" drum but nothing really caught my eye this episode. It was very solid in it's flow. I think some of the King's Landing stuff doesn't hold up under close examination but that was Fridge Logic stuff which is fine.