I met a leave voter last night who was adamant all the money we saved by not paying EU membership fees will cover all the things the eu gave us money for.
I didn't know what to say. He seemed to think two years was enough time to retool our economy to not need the single market.
I met a leave voter last night who was adamant all the money we saved by not paying EU membership fees will cover all the things the eu gave us money for.
I didn't know what to say. He seemed to think two years was enough time to retool our economy to not need the single market.
I'll be happy if he's right. But I seriously doubt it.
That's exactly what many people say in Switzerland with respect to our participation in EU research programmes. If you just look at the bill itself, there may be something to it (at least in this particular respect), but it goes beyond that: working within the EU's programmes means ease of access. Take that away, and European research teams think twice about working with Swiss researchers, since certain collaborations become more complicated, which in turn means more resources (especially time, but also money) are required. It's not binary, i.e. Switzerland won't suddenly become an undesirable research partner, but we'll be a less desirable partner and therefore we'll miss out on some research altogether, while in other projects and programmes Swiss researchers might only be partners but not full co-applicants - and all of that for the same price, which we'll have to pay to have *some* access.
Edit: One important thing I forgot to add: I work with Switzerland's national research funding institution, and our contacts say there's already been a noticeable, measurable impact.* Top research teams are less eager to include Swiss researchers, and researchers have already lost out on major opportunities.
*The impact is due to a 2014 referendum to curb immigration into Switzerland, which is likely to contravene the Swiss-EU agreement concerning the free movement of people and which may well result in several other agreements with the EU being cancelled. We were kicked out of Horizon 2020 for half a year and are currently on probation.
Thirith on
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
So these colossal Dover tailbacks. People are sitting in traffic jams for 14 hours or more to get past French border checks. It's starting to feel like the first stings of Brexit, this accusation is being strenuously denied of course but it seems a little strange it's taking British travelers the best part of a day to cross the border while the French shengen borders remain completely open. Last I checked the Nice attacker didn't come over from the UK, nor is the UK a popular route into France from the Middle East*, it's kind of geographically inconvenient for that, so the security argument is ringing a little hollow.
But yeah here we go, our first taste of what life on the outside of the club feels like.
*In fact correct me if I'm wrong but the French terrorist problem is almost entirely home grown from their Algerian population?
I don't want to believe it is but I'm not really seeing any compelling arguments for how it isn't.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited July 2016
One of the reasons we had the EU was because the English and French national sports are actually fucking with each other, escalating, and then suddenly they're burning a 17 year old Catholic girl alive.
I don't want to believe it is but I'm not really seeing any compelling arguments for how it isn't.
The biggest argument against would be, ya know, you're getting attacked every few months and maybe don't want to start being a dick with one of your allies.
But then you remember that hey, politics isn't about helping people.
I don't want to believe it is but I'm not really seeing any compelling arguments for how it isn't.
This kind of low-level bullshit is pretty standard across international relations, and the French have always delighted in it. I had to get a visa for France in the 90s because Australia was having a diplomatic disagreement with them. Brazil counts the number of brazilians denied visas to the US and then throws out exactly the same number of american tourists regardless of merit. etc etc. Trés normal.
I don't want to believe it is but I'm not really seeing any compelling arguments for how it isn't.
This kind of low-level bullshit is pretty standard across international relations, and the French have always delighted in it. I had to get a visa for France in the 90s because Australia was having a diplomatic disagreement with them. Brazil counts the number of brazilians denied visas to the US and then throws out exactly the same number of american tourists regardless of merit. etc etc. Trés normal.
Yeah... It's just deeply disappointing to see.
I still can't believe we got here because of conservatives, I mean if anyone should understand the benefits of being in a group that entrenches privileges and works to progress it's members interests at the expense of everyone outside the group, it should be conservatives!
Unless they were the ones actually drinking their own bootstrap koolaid...?
The sticking point for Conservatives is that they like exclusive clubs, so the inclusion of less wealthy nations in the EU is as untenable to them as letting a poor person join their golf club.
As far as the crossing delays go, this just sounds like the usual changing policy without assigning additional resources thing and isn't necessarily intentional. Although I'd imagine there will be less willingness to resolve the issue than there would have been last year.
John McDonnell appeals to Corbyn opponents to "stop trying to destroy the labour party" in order to remove him
Which is ... certainly a perspective
Well at least he did say that Corbyn would resign as leader..... if he lost a general election.....
Looks like we're potentially guaranteed a Tory government up to 2025 (assuming May doesn't hold one in the spring which is a strong possibility).
Nah she seems committed to not having one and the effort to force her was weak and shambolic, I say "was" because even the Lib Dems have conceded it isn't happening and are complaining about her not calling one rather than continuing to try and pressure her to call one.
John McDonnell appeals to Corbyn opponents to "stop trying to destroy the labour party" in order to remove him
Which is ... certainly a perspective
Well at least he did say that Corbyn would resign as leader..... if he lost a general election.....
Looks like we're potentially guaranteed a Tory government up to 2025 (assuming May doesn't hold one in the spring which is a strong possibility).
Nah she seems committed to not having one and the effort to force her was weak and shambolic, I say "was" because even the Lib Dems have conceded it isn't happening and are complaining about her not calling one rather than continuing to try and pressure her to call one.
Reading the article, I can nearly see the reasoning, namely that she wants to remind her staffers what she stood for in that speech and to remind them what they're working for
But wow there's no way it doesn't come off as egotistical
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SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
Yeah, it's a well meant decision, it just looks bad and to be fair, nowhere near as silly as the Edstone that I can only assume has been ground into gravel and distributed outside Labour Party HQ in a Great Escape-esque manner.
Theresa May will reassure the first minister of Northern Ireland that there will be no return to border checks for people entering the UK from the Republic of Ireland despite Britain’s vote to leave the EU.
The prime minister will make the pledge to Arlene Foster during a visit to Belfast on Monday, during which she will also promise to engage with the region’s devolved administration in preparation for Brexit negotiations.
Speaking ahead of the trip that completes a tour of all four parts of the UK within the first two weeks of her premiership, May said: “I made clear when I became prime minister that I place particular value on the precious bonds between the nations of the United Kingdom.
“I want to assure the people of Northern Ireland that I will lead a government [that] works for everyone across all parts of the United Kingdom, and that Northern Ireland is a special and valued part of that union.”
May said she wanted to underline her commitment to the Belfast agreement, arguing that “peace and stability in Northern Ireland will always be of the highest priority for my government”.
...
Critics will question how that would be possible given the strong desire, particularly in England, to restrict freedom of movement after Brexit. There are currently no checks when someone passes from Ireland into the UK.
Just two days before the EU referendum last month, May said it was “inconceivable” that there would be no hard border in the event of Brexit.
She told the BBC: “If we were out of the European Union with tariffs on exporting goods into the EU, there’d have to be something to recognise that between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
“And if you pulled out of the EU and came out of free movement, then how could you have a situation where there was an open border with a country that was in the EU and had access to free movement?”
Well, that just got very interesting, didn't it? Has she had a change of heart in the last month? Is she bullshitting Foster? What do you guys make of this?
Theresa May will reassure the first minister of Northern Ireland that there will be no return to border checks for people entering the UK from the Republic of Ireland despite Britain’s vote to leave the EU.
The prime minister will make the pledge to Arlene Foster during a visit to Belfast on Monday, during which she will also promise to engage with the region’s devolved administration in preparation for Brexit negotiations.
Speaking ahead of the trip that completes a tour of all four parts of the UK within the first two weeks of her premiership, May said: “I made clear when I became prime minister that I place particular value on the precious bonds between the nations of the United Kingdom.
“I want to assure the people of Northern Ireland that I will lead a government [that] works for everyone across all parts of the United Kingdom, and that Northern Ireland is a special and valued part of that union.”
May said she wanted to underline her commitment to the Belfast agreement, arguing that “peace and stability in Northern Ireland will always be of the highest priority for my government”.
...
Critics will question how that would be possible given the strong desire, particularly in England, to restrict freedom of movement after Brexit. There are currently no checks when someone passes from Ireland into the UK.
Just two days before the EU referendum last month, May said it was “inconceivable” that there would be no hard border in the event of Brexit.
She told the BBC: “If we were out of the European Union with tariffs on exporting goods into the EU, there’d have to be something to recognise that between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
“And if you pulled out of the EU and came out of free movement, then how could you have a situation where there was an open border with a country that was in the EU and had access to free movement?”
Well, that just got very interesting, didn't it? Has she had a change of heart in the last month? Is she bullshitting Foster? What do you guys make of this?
Maybe she, like that other MP (forget who), thinks the Republic of Ireland is still part of the UK.
Maybe she's unenthusiastic about actually Leaving, and she's gradually highlighting the reality of all the different reasons why it's a fucking retarded thing to do, one by one.
I assume that would involve a bit more by way of border shenanigans than usual, but as a temporary arrangement, wouldn't end with a hard border across Ireland, which I think everyone, except possibly that maniac Redwood, wants to avoid.
Frankly, as an economic ptagmatist and frustrated Remain voter, I'd tear the EU's arm off to take that deal.
Frankly, as an economic ptagmatist and frustrated Remain voter, I'd tear the EU's arm off to take that deal.
Right now I imagine you as Beowulf and the EU as Grendel, which sits uneasily with you voting Remain. I guess that's what frustration does to you. :P (I could've gone with Chewbacca/stormtrooper, but I thought I'd go for the more English comparison.)
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"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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I didn't know what to say. He seemed to think two years was enough time to retool our economy to not need the single market.
I'll be happy if he's right. But I seriously doubt it.
Edit: One important thing I forgot to add: I work with Switzerland's national research funding institution, and our contacts say there's already been a noticeable, measurable impact.* Top research teams are less eager to include Swiss researchers, and researchers have already lost out on major opportunities.
*The impact is due to a 2014 referendum to curb immigration into Switzerland, which is likely to contravene the Swiss-EU agreement concerning the free movement of people and which may well result in several other agreements with the EU being cancelled. We were kicked out of Horizon 2020 for half a year and are currently on probation.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Which is ... certainly a perspective
But yeah here we go, our first taste of what life on the outside of the club feels like.
*In fact correct me if I'm wrong but the French terrorist problem is almost entirely home grown from their Algerian population?
I don't want to believe it is but I'm not really seeing any compelling arguments for how it isn't.
The biggest argument against would be, ya know, you're getting attacked every few months and maybe don't want to start being a dick with one of your allies.
But then you remember that hey, politics isn't about helping people.
This kind of low-level bullshit is pretty standard across international relations, and the French have always delighted in it. I had to get a visa for France in the 90s because Australia was having a diplomatic disagreement with them. Brazil counts the number of brazilians denied visas to the US and then throws out exactly the same number of american tourists regardless of merit. etc etc. Trés normal.
Yeah... It's just deeply disappointing to see.
I still can't believe we got here because of conservatives, I mean if anyone should understand the benefits of being in a group that entrenches privileges and works to progress it's members interests at the expense of everyone outside the group, it should be conservatives!
Unless they were the ones actually drinking their own bootstrap koolaid...?
As far as the crossing delays go, this just sounds like the usual changing policy without assigning additional resources thing and isn't necessarily intentional. Although I'd imagine there will be less willingness to resolve the issue than there would have been last year.
It's petty, but it's also extremely useful.
In fact I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that it wasn't a completely unprompted French action.
Well at least he did say that Corbyn would resign as leader..... if he lost a general election.....
Looks like we're potentially guaranteed a Tory government up to 2025 (assuming May doesn't hold one in the spring which is a strong possibility).
Nah she seems committed to not having one and the effort to force her was weak and shambolic, I say "was" because even the Lib Dems have conceded it isn't happening and are complaining about her not calling one rather than continuing to try and pressure her to call one.
Can't really blame them
Satire is dead.
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But wow there's no way it doesn't come off as egotistical
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No there are plenty of words they're on the wall.
But I'll believe it when I see it.
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You might say that, when it comes to post Brexit Britain...
8-)
...the writing's on the wall.
ewww Spectre theme but yaaay puns
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Well, that just got very interesting, didn't it? Has she had a change of heart in the last month? Is she bullshitting Foster? What do you guys make of this?
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Maybe she, like that other MP (forget who), thinks the Republic of Ireland is still part of the UK.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
Inconceivable.
And yes, I do know what the word means.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
I assume that would involve a bit more by way of border shenanigans than usual, but as a temporary arrangement, wouldn't end with a hard border across Ireland, which I think everyone, except possibly that maniac Redwood, wants to avoid.
Frankly, as an economic ptagmatist and frustrated Remain voter, I'd tear the EU's arm off to take that deal.
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"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/france-condemned-as-petty-jumped-up-country-obsessed-with-protecting-its-borders-20160725111327
Chewie is at least 50% Swedish now, damn EU nationals stealing jobs from old men who are getting on and have dicky knees!
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(With thanks to @Desktop Hippie for much better info than mine)