I just want to know why nothing works. Why don't the protests work? Why don't the videos of black men being killed, in increasingly gorier and gorier detail I might add, do anything? This is just like gun control, except worse.
I just want to know why nothing works. Why don't the protests work? Why don't the videos of black men being killed, in increasingly gorier and gorier detail I might add, do anything? This is just like gun control, except worse.
Because we are fundamentally segregated and racist.
I live in a town with a large black population. Not one of my blue collar co-workers is black.
Baring some sort of massive generations long federal initiative we are basically fucked.
I just want to know why nothing works. Why don't the protests work? Why don't the videos of black men being killed, in increasingly gorier and gorier detail I might add, do anything? This is just like gun control, except worse.
Because we are fundamentally segregated and racist.
I live in a town with a large black population. Not one of my blue collar co-workers is black.
Baring some sort of massive generations long federal initiative we are basically fucked.
Even if you show somebody videos of white guys getting shot, or stories of white guys wrongfully convicted, they'll convince themselves that this is a necessary evil and that it won't happen to them. That's assuming they can't find some convenient way to "other" the victim (he was white trash, a redneck, a hippy, whatever).
I'm not. Personally, you can feel "What the FUCK was this guy doing", but no. As a cop, a judge or ANY representative of the administration you can not go out and say "That was terrible and they did wrong" until it has been proven in a court of law.
That's how it's supposed to go down.
And honestly. Even after seeing two videos from different angles I can't tell. What I can tell is:
1. At the time they shot it doesn't look like his right arm was pinned, at least not in a manner that makes it impossible to go for a gun in his right pocket. I also have no idea how the shopowner could have seen that "he wasn't going for his pockets".
2. It's quite possible that the object they pulled from his pocket was a firearm.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Shots fired, officers down during a protest march in Dallas.
Oh goddammit.
I have no idea what kind of extenuating circumstances would be necessary to keep this from turning into a huge racist shitstorm. I understand that I'm speaking as an outsider to this particular struggle, but violence is just going to make this worse.
Edit: more violence. Because the problem is already 31 flavors of institutional violence.
Event occurred very near 10:02 Eastern, 9:02 local. Lots of news feeds seem to report it around that time, start at 10:01 PM EST on online news streams.
All you have to do is look at drug policy to realize how screwed up we are.
Now that poor rural whites are being devastated by addiction, drug policy is beginning to move away from incarceration.
Event occurred very near 10:02 Eastern, 9:02 local. Lots of news feeds seem to report it around that time, start at 10:01 PM EST on online news streams.
What I have read so far indicates it's at least localized to a parking structure. So maybe they can isolate the incident and the Dallas Police act rationally after arresting someone.
I'm not. Personally, you can feel "What the FUCK was this guy doing", but no. As a cop, a judge or ANY representative of the administration you can not go out and say "That was terrible and they did wrong" until it has been proven in a court of law.
That's how it's supposed to go down.
And yet that standard isn't applied to non-cops, is it?
Event occurred very near 10:02 Eastern, 9:02 local. Lots of news feeds seem to report it around that time, start at 10:01 PM EST on online news streams.
What I have read so far indicates it's at least localized to a parking structure. So maybe they can isolate the incident and the Dallas Police act rationally after arresting someone.
Local reports are two officers down, not confirmed fatal. So far, no civilians reported injured during this incident.
I'm not. Personally, you can feel "What the FUCK was this guy doing", but no. As a cop, a judge or ANY representative of the administration you can not go out and say "That was terrible and they did wrong" until it has been proven in a court of law.
That's how it's supposed to go down.
And honestly. Even after seeing two videos from different angles I can't tell. What I can tell is:
1. At the time they shot it doesn't look like his right arm was pinned, at least not in a manner that makes it impossible to go for a gun in his right pocket. I also have no idea how the shopowner could have seen that "he wasn't going for his pockets".
2. It's quite possible that the object they pulled from his pocket was a firearm.
The Blue Wall shouldn't be how it's supposed to go down, and defending it is terrible. Especially considering the cop calling in wasn't even in the same department, so he has absolutely no stake in those particular officer's standing.
And yet that standard isn't applied to non-cops, is it?
Which IMHO is pretty awful, ethicly and professionally.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
I'm not. Personally, you can feel "What the FUCK was this guy doing", but no. As a cop, a judge or ANY representative of the administration you can not go out and say "That was terrible and they did wrong" until it has been proven in a court of law.
That's how it's supposed to go down.
And honestly. Even after seeing two videos from different angles I can't tell. What I can tell is:
1. At the time they shot it doesn't look like his right arm was pinned, at least not in a manner that makes it impossible to go for a gun in his right pocket. I also have no idea how the shopowner could have seen that "he wasn't going for his pockets".
2. It's quite possible that the object they pulled from his pocket was a firearm.
I believe the object they did pull from his pocket was a firearm, but if I read correctly, he had two officers on top of him and he was tazed. Cops have stopped plenty of folks who had guns out or who reached for their guns without shooting them six times point blank.
I just want to know why nothing works. Why don't the protests work? Why don't the videos of black men being killed, in increasingly gorier and gorier detail I might add, do anything? This is just like gun control, except worse.
We are a country of over 300 million people. There is constantly something terrible going on in some part of it. People cannot keep up with the scandals as they are so numerous, and I think they are generally aware that their individual effort towards reform really won't go anywhere. In between working an eight hour job, and trying to start a relationship or maintain a family most people have almost no time to get themselves informed. The moment they try to do that, they are bombarded by so many different news sources where information is selectively provided so as to give you a biased view of various situations. People don't have the time, nor the education to be informed. If you don't have a clear grasp on statistics, you aren't ready to watch the news. So, most people cannot evaluate the news that they do not even bother to watch.
I could point to dozens of different areas where government action or inaction, or inefficiency, or the need for reform leads to death. I could point to various aspects of the criminal justice system, our healthcare system, I could point to our child services programs. None of that even deals with the economy, which is what most people are concerned about. Its hard for most people to care about something that happened in a state they have never set foot in, when they are having a hard time affording the rent, or are worried their job might up and disappear.
It doesn't have to be a protester that shot the cops, right? Just someone taking advantage of the protest?
Nevertheless, I can't see this ending well.
There is a tweet vid just posted a bit ago that indicates the shooter was in the crowd at the start. From the looks of it the cops were the targets though and the protesters in that area safely got behind the cops.
This is all really quite horrifying. I really wouldn't mind if the entire police force was replaced by another agency, or at the very least we actually held police accountable in this country, because the system we have currently is just not acceptable as it is. Unfortunately I'm not sure how feasible it would be.
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
Accountability is the first step. Might think twice about pulling that trigger if they thought they would go to prison for it.
I believe the object they did pull from his pocket was a firearm, but if I read correctly, he had two officers on top of him and he was tazed. Cops have stopped plenty of folks who had guns out or who reached for their guns without shooting them six times point blank.
"two officers on top of you" is enough in an ideal situation. But holy shit this was not an ideal situation considering that he was lying right next to a car (with the car blocking access to his right arm).
That means you can't pull out the arm, you can't use your body weight to your advantage and you're fighting against major arm muscles without an overwhelming superiority in leverage.
This case is nowhere as clear cut as for example Tamir Rice (which was a god damn assassination). Considering that I don't trust the investigation I don't think I'll ever be 100% sure if this was a justified shooting or not (unless they determine that it wasn't justified). Badly handled yes, but...yeah.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
I believe the object they did pull from his pocket was a firearm, but if I read correctly, he had two officers on top of him and he was tazed. Cops have stopped plenty of folks who had guns out or who reached for their guns without shooting them six times point blank.
"two officers on top of you" is enough in an ideal situation. But holy shit this was not an ideal situation considering that he was lying right next to a car (with the car blocking access to his right arm).
That means you can't pull out the arm, you can't use your body weight to your advantage and you're fighting against major arm muscles without an overwhelming superiority in leverage.
This case is nowhere as clear cut as for example Tamir Rice (which was a god damn assassination). Considering that I don't trust the investigation I don't think I'll ever be 100% sure if this was a justified shooting or not (unless they determine that it wasn't justified). Badly handled yes, but...yeah.
Cops have stopped plenty of folks who had guns out or who reached for their guns without shooting them six times point blank.
Even IF they had to shoot him, six times is pretty excessive. I would think ONE shot, where cops are trained to "shoot to kill" would have been enough. At point blank range.
And if they had a tazer, they could have tazed him again.
But you're right, this wasn't an ideal situation. It was two on one in a situation that shouldn't have happened and ended in someone dying for what...? What justifies his death?
So "The Purge: Election Year" just came out in theaters last week.
It's interesting watching the reviews for this trilogy over the past four years shift from "This is a completely ridiculous premise" to "I can totally see this happening in our country."
And yet that standard isn't applied to non-cops, is it?
Which IMHO is pretty awful, ethicly and professionally.
I think this is part of the disconnect.
If cops routinely comment on shootings by immediately defending the officer and blaming the suspect, and aren't even given a "tsk tsk" for it, why the hell should it be considered unethical for cops to judge other cops when they do wrong? Sure, in an ideal world cops wouldn't comment on either, but we live in the real world and at the very least the officers involved in the shooting are always going to defend themselves.
It's a bullshit double standard to hold cops under the fire for breaking the blue wall, but not for stretching like they're Mister Fantastic to justify why they needed to put half a dozen rounds in the back of a tazed, bodyslammed man with two men pinning him down.
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
Ugh, this whole situation is bringing out the cynic in me.
I believe the object they did pull from his pocket was a firearm, but if I read correctly, he had two officers on top of him and he was tazed. Cops have stopped plenty of folks who had guns out or who reached for their guns without shooting them six times point blank.
"two officers on top of you" is enough in an ideal situation. But holy shit this was not an ideal situation considering that he was lying right next to a car (with the car blocking access to his right arm).
That means you can't pull out the arm, you can't use your body weight to your advantage and you're fighting against major arm muscles without an overwhelming superiority in leverage.
This case is nowhere as clear cut as for example Tamir Rice (which was a god damn assassination). Considering that I don't trust the investigation I don't think I'll ever be 100% sure if this was a justified shooting or not (unless they determine that it wasn't justified). Badly handled yes, but...yeah.
That that shit could ever be considered justified is what makes me lose faith in my country, for real. Fuck that.
I believe the object they did pull from his pocket was a firearm, but if I read correctly, he had two officers on top of him and he was tazed. Cops have stopped plenty of folks who had guns out or who reached for their guns without shooting them six times point blank.
"two officers on top of you" is enough in an ideal situation. But holy shit this was not an ideal situation considering that he was lying right next to a car (with the car blocking access to his right arm).
That means you can't pull out the arm, you can't use your body weight to your advantage and you're fighting against major arm muscles without an overwhelming superiority in leverage.
This case is nowhere as clear cut as for example Tamir Rice (which was a god damn assassination). Considering that I don't trust the investigation I don't think I'll ever be 100% sure if this was a justified shooting or not (unless they determine that it wasn't justified). Badly handled yes, but...yeah.
Each one of these cases has proven that police departments cannot be trusted. If you follow the news coverage of police shootings, you can usually catch the department in at least one lie within 24 hours.
The fact of the matter is that police do not value the lives of non-white citizens. They shoot us because it's easy, and because they know they will face no consequences for doing so. If they killed a white person, they'd feel bad.
What's happening in Dallas is tragic. It was also inevitable. When people feel that the law cannot- or will not- respond to their concerns, they will eventually turn to violence. What happens next is also inevitable: white America will massively overreact, and far more black people will suffer than white. See Rosewood, Chicago, Tulsa, and countless other massacres.
For my part, I am long past the point of feeling sympathy for police. They made their bed, now they can lie in it.
It doesn't work because the people who care and the people who have the power to effect change are two largely non-overlapping sets.
I went to high school with a lady who became a political scientist, and she believes that the only way to systematically produce change is large, sustained protests.
I don't know if that's the case or not. It doesn't really feel like anything is changing, you know? But I'm sure not doing anything isn't going to bring about change.
It doesn't work because the people who care and the people who have the power to effect change are two largely non-overlapping sets.
I went to high school with a lady who became a political scientist, and she believes that the only way to systematically produce change is large, sustained protests.
I don't know if that's the case or not. It doesn't really feel like anything is changing, you know? But I'm sure not doing anything isn't going to bring about change.
The Montgomery Bus Protests took place in 1955. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was signed in, well, you know.
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The country is run by old rich white dudes.
Because we are fundamentally segregated and racist.
I live in a town with a large black population. Not one of my blue collar co-workers is black.
Baring some sort of massive generations long federal initiative we are basically fucked.
Well this is depressing. Things are about to get a lot worse.
Even if you show somebody videos of white guys getting shot, or stories of white guys wrongfully convicted, they'll convince themselves that this is a necessary evil and that it won't happen to them. That's assuming they can't find some convenient way to "other" the victim (he was white trash, a redneck, a hippy, whatever).
I'm not. Personally, you can feel "What the FUCK was this guy doing", but no. As a cop, a judge or ANY representative of the administration you can not go out and say "That was terrible and they did wrong" until it has been proven in a court of law.
That's how it's supposed to go down.
And honestly. Even after seeing two videos from different angles I can't tell. What I can tell is:
1. At the time they shot it doesn't look like his right arm was pinned, at least not in a manner that makes it impossible to go for a gun in his right pocket. I also have no idea how the shopowner could have seen that "he wasn't going for his pockets".
2. It's quite possible that the object they pulled from his pocket was a firearm.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Oh goddammit.
I have no idea what kind of extenuating circumstances would be necessary to keep this from turning into a huge racist shitstorm. I understand that I'm speaking as an outsider to this particular struggle, but violence is just going to make this worse.
Edit: more violence. Because the problem is already 31 flavors of institutional violence.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Now that poor rural whites are being devastated by addiction, drug policy is beginning to move away from incarceration.
What I have read so far indicates it's at least localized to a parking structure. So maybe they can isolate the incident and the Dallas Police act rationally after arresting someone.
And yet that standard isn't applied to non-cops, is it?
Local reports are two officers down, not confirmed fatal. So far, no civilians reported injured during this incident.
The Blue Wall shouldn't be how it's supposed to go down, and defending it is terrible. Especially considering the cop calling in wasn't even in the same department, so he has absolutely no stake in those particular officer's standing.
Which IMHO is pretty awful, ethicly and professionally.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
I believe the object they did pull from his pocket was a firearm, but if I read correctly, he had two officers on top of him and he was tazed. Cops have stopped plenty of folks who had guns out or who reached for their guns without shooting them six times point blank.
Ticker. for dallas.
Edit: Video of shootout as of like 6 min ago.
edit: report is the first shooter "has been neutralized"
edit 2: 3-6 officers are injured, some very gravely
Nevertheless, I can't see this ending well.
We are a country of over 300 million people. There is constantly something terrible going on in some part of it. People cannot keep up with the scandals as they are so numerous, and I think they are generally aware that their individual effort towards reform really won't go anywhere. In between working an eight hour job, and trying to start a relationship or maintain a family most people have almost no time to get themselves informed. The moment they try to do that, they are bombarded by so many different news sources where information is selectively provided so as to give you a biased view of various situations. People don't have the time, nor the education to be informed. If you don't have a clear grasp on statistics, you aren't ready to watch the news. So, most people cannot evaluate the news that they do not even bother to watch.
I could point to dozens of different areas where government action or inaction, or inefficiency, or the need for reform leads to death. I could point to various aspects of the criminal justice system, our healthcare system, I could point to our child services programs. None of that even deals with the economy, which is what most people are concerned about. Its hard for most people to care about something that happened in a state they have never set foot in, when they are having a hard time affording the rent, or are worried their job might up and disappear.
There is a tweet vid just posted a bit ago that indicates the shooter was in the crowd at the start. From the looks of it the cops were the targets though and the protesters in that area safely got behind the cops.
"two officers on top of you" is enough in an ideal situation. But holy shit this was not an ideal situation considering that he was lying right next to a car (with the car blocking access to his right arm).
That means you can't pull out the arm, you can't use your body weight to your advantage and you're fighting against major arm muscles without an overwhelming superiority in leverage.
This case is nowhere as clear cut as for example Tamir Rice (which was a god damn assassination). Considering that I don't trust the investigation I don't think I'll ever be 100% sure if this was a justified shooting or not (unless they determine that it wasn't justified). Badly handled yes, but...yeah.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Companies are paid by the prisoner/mile, with no oversight. I can't imagine how that might go wrong.
Inside the Deadly World of Private Prisoner Transport
I'm sorry, let me reiterate what I just said:
Even IF they had to shoot him, six times is pretty excessive. I would think ONE shot, where cops are trained to "shoot to kill" would have been enough. At point blank range.
And if they had a tazer, they could have tazed him again.
But you're right, this wasn't an ideal situation. It was two on one in a situation that shouldn't have happened and ended in someone dying for what...? What justifies his death?
Badly handled? Yes. But? But nothing.
It's interesting watching the reviews for this trilogy over the past four years shift from "This is a completely ridiculous premise" to "I can totally see this happening in our country."
And as someone that lives in Los Angeles, thank goodness my city isn't going through this yet.
I think this is part of the disconnect.
If cops routinely comment on shootings by immediately defending the officer and blaming the suspect, and aren't even given a "tsk tsk" for it, why the hell should it be considered unethical for cops to judge other cops when they do wrong? Sure, in an ideal world cops wouldn't comment on either, but we live in the real world and at the very least the officers involved in the shooting are always going to defend themselves.
It's a bullshit double standard to hold cops under the fire for breaking the blue wall, but not for stretching like they're Mister Fantastic to justify why they needed to put half a dozen rounds in the back of a tazed, bodyslammed man with two men pinning him down.
That that shit could ever be considered justified is what makes me lose faith in my country, for real. Fuck that.
edit: one sniper in the parking garage
edit: one DART officer dead, 2 dallas police dead at the hand of snipers
Each one of these cases has proven that police departments cannot be trusted. If you follow the news coverage of police shootings, you can usually catch the department in at least one lie within 24 hours.
The fact of the matter is that police do not value the lives of non-white citizens. They shoot us because it's easy, and because they know they will face no consequences for doing so. If they killed a white person, they'd feel bad.
What's happening in Dallas is tragic. It was also inevitable. When people feel that the law cannot- or will not- respond to their concerns, they will eventually turn to violence. What happens next is also inevitable: white America will massively overreact, and far more black people will suffer than white. See Rosewood, Chicago, Tulsa, and countless other massacres.
For my part, I am long past the point of feeling sympathy for police. They made their bed, now they can lie in it.
All I can muster is "god fucking damnit."
I don't know if that's the case or not. It doesn't really feel like anything is changing, you know? But I'm sure not doing anything isn't going to bring about change.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
The Montgomery Bus Protests took place in 1955. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was signed in, well, you know.
So yeah, it's probably going to take a while.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2943101/Final-Comprehensive-Evaluation-of-the-St-Louis.pdf
10 shot in Dallas, 3 dead.
Fuck.