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[Heroes of the Storm] BY FIRE BE PURGED

milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky MuckBig Tits TownRegistered User regular
edited November 2016 in Games and Technology

Official Definition:
Heroes of the Storm™ is a raucous online team brawler starring your favorite Blizzard characters. Build and customize heroes from across every Blizzard universe to suit your play style. Team up with your friends and engage in fast-paced mayhem across varied battlegrounds that impact strategy and change the way you play the game.

Alternate Definition:
Heroes is a MOBA-lite Team Brawler game in which you play as many characters from different Blizzard universes in 5v5 objective based team combat. The emphasis is on "objective based." There are currently 7 maps with more to come. Each features a unique map objective that is typically the key to victory. The team that manages to win the objectives is usuallythe team that wins. Heroes shares many gameplay elements in the MOBA genre with popular games like DotA2 and League of Legends, but it also drops a lot of the common trappings of the genre and has simplified down to a core game of action and fun.
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Heroes, in a nutshell, is a game in which two teams are trying to destroy the Core of the opposing team. The Core is similar to the Ancient in DotA or the Nexus in League. Each team has a base with Forts, Towers, Gates, Healing Wells, and Walls to help them defend their core.

At regular intervals waves of NPC Minions spawn in each base and march down pre-defined lanes to attack the enemy. It is the job of the players to help attack down these lanes and destroy the enemy team's base and ultimately their Core. To help with this, each of the maps has a special map objective that gives a big bonus of some sort to the team that completes the objective. Generally each objective will be completed 3-5 times per match before the core is destroyed.

Just like the waves of NPC Minions who spawn and march towards each other in battle, so too do the player characters respawn when they die and continue to fight. The amount of time it takes to respawn is directly related to how long the game has been running. In a new game that is only minutes old, a player will respawn almost immediately. In games over 15 minutes in length the spawn timers will reach a full 60 seconds.

Core: The first team to destroy their opponent's Core wins the map. The Core has a recharging shield which is worth about 15% of the total health of the Core. This shield regenerates very quickly when the Core is out of combat for 8 seconds. The Core also shoots a lightning blast at a target that will also damage enemies near that target. It follows the same targeting rules as Forts and Towers (see below), but is immune to many effect that shut down structures.

Tower: The first line of defense in each base. Towers have limited ammo which regenerates over time. Towers prioritize minions and summoned units and will ignore player characters as long as there is a minion or summoned unit within range. Unlike other MOBAs, the Towers in Heroes will not target a player character if that character attacks an enemy hero while within range.

Forts: Each lane has one Fort, which is located behind a wall and two towers. These Forts have a lot of HP and attack with ammo just like Towers do, but they also slow enemy movement and attack speed which makes them a decent place to defend from. Destroying a Fort yields a considerable XP payout, making them primary targets in the early game.

Keeps: After a Fort, the last line of a lane's defense before the Core are Keeps. These function similarly to Forts, and will also pay out big XP if destroyed. If a keep is destroyed, the opposing lane will start spawning long-range, high-damage catapults alongside the usual minions. Therefore, it's very important protect your keeps while destroying your opponents'.

Healing Wells: If you have played Warcraft 3 then you are probably familiar with the Healing Wells, as they operate similarly to the Moon Wells of the Night Elves. They are on a timer, and restore Health and Mana when you click them. The Health and Mana provided by these Wells is not instant, as the restoration happens over time.

Spawn Point: Each team spawns behind their Core in the safety of their base. There is a magical shield barrier that prevents the enemy team from entering the spawn location, and this shield stops all spells and attacks. Spawn Points also have instant-mounting while you are inside, and you regenerate Health and Mana at a very fast rate while standing in the spawn.
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Minions spawn down the lane like merry lemmings just waiting to die to a tower or hero. They are...

1. Soldiers: Dudes with swords, they lead the minion waves. Tend to have higher-than-average HP and a weak melee attack.
2. Archers: Dudes with, get this, bows. They're in the back of the wave, boasting lower HP but a decent ranged attack.
3. Mages: Wizards that coast in the middle of the pack. They deal ranged damage, but the more important thing is that they drop a green orb on death that will give you and nearby teammates a little bit of HP and mana back. There's only one per minion wave, so try to get that orb!
4. Catapults: Beefy siege units that assault bases with a long-range attack. They only spawn when the enemy's final fort in that lane has fallen, giving you incentive to keep that damn fort alive. They can easily outrange towers/forts/cores, meaning they will slowly whittle down a base unless stopped.

Each map also contains a scattering of Mercenary Camps in the "jungle" area between the lanes. These Merc Camps are neutral NPCs that can be defeated by players and hired to fight for the team that captures them. To capture a Mercenary Camp, the players must defeat them in combat (or bribe them) and then stand within a capture circle for a few seconds to gain control of the camp. It is possible for the enemy team to steal the camps if they push you out of the circle or kill you before you can claim it.

1. Siege Camps: These camps contain two giant siege monsters which hurl large rocks at their enemies. They have long range and can out-range towers and forts, which make them very advantageous for lane pushing. These are the easiest camps to defeat and can be solo'd by most heroes by level 10.
2. Bruiser Camps: Formerly known as the "Knight Camps," these are squads of 4 soldiers (3 melee and 1 spellcaster) who possess a lot of HP and decent damage damage. These camps are more difficult to take and typically require 1-2 people to capture.
3. Boss Camps: These camps generally require 3+ heroes to kill, depending on team levels and what heroes are present. These are high HP / high Damage monsters that can do devastating amounts of damage in a lane. They ignore minions and other mercenaries and will only target enemy structures. They cast a Pound skill that can be avoided by moving out of the telegraphed smash circle. They also cast a targeted root spell on occasion against enemy heroes, telegraphed by a smaller circle.
4. Map-Specific Creeps: From pirates on Blackheart Bay to the plant monsters in the Garden of Terror, these mercs will NOT join your side, but instead drop objective-relevant items that help you win the game like skulls, coins, and so on. Difficulty and rewards vary by map.
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So what else? There is no item shop. No in-game gold. No items to be bought. No shoes or rods of whatever. "Blasphemy!" you might say, but Heroes is feeling pretty heretical. Instead of items, you get talents roughly every 3-4 levels. These are anywhere from 2-5 choices that change how your character functions. It might be "killing minions gives you more damage" or "your auto-attacks now slow enemies." At level 10 you unlock your Heroic Ability (aka your ult), and even that has choices! Every character has two heroic abilities, so pick the one most suited for the current game.

If you have played other MOBAs and are accustomed to buying boots, this game doesn't have them. Instead it has Mounts (default Z key). Attacking or taking damage dismounts you, and re-mounting does have a brief cooldown. Not all characters can mount up, but instead have mobility skills that in most cases let them get to an area REALLY FAST but has a much longer cooldown.
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As you play games in Heroes, you will level up two different things: your Player Level and a Hero Level. Experience you earn from playing game is applied to both kinds of levels. There are also three kinds of XP boosts one can get: playing with people on your friends list, Holiday bonuses that occur throughout the year, and Stimpacks which are boosts you buy from the shop. Also, there's a cap on experience gained from bot matches: roughly 2.25 Million experience a day.

Player Level is just an account rank. You get various features and goodies unlocked as you play. These are as follows:
  • Level2: 1,000 Gold
  • Level 4: 1,000 Gold
  • Level 5: Unlocks an additional slot in the free hero rotation
  • Level 6: Unlocks Daily Quests
  • Level 7: Unlocks an additional slot in the free hero rotation
  • Levels 8: 2,000 Gold
  • Level 10: A Seven-Day Stim Pack (+100% XP and Gold from games); 2,000 Gold
  • Level 12: Unlocks an additional slot in the free hero rotation
  • Level 15: Unlocks an additional slot in the free hero rotation
  • Level 20: 2,000 Gold
  • Level 25: 2,000 Gold
  • Level 30: 2,000 Gold
  • Level 35: 2,000 Gold
  • Level 40: 2,000 Gold

Daily Quests are small tasks the game gives you each day, and upon completion you get 200-800 gold (depending on the quest) for your effort (as an aside, you also get 30 gold for each win, and 20 for each loss). There are currently 4 categories of Daily Quests: play 2 games with a specific franchise hero, play 3 games as a specific role, win 3 games, and play 8 games in any mode. Note that the Retro and Overwatch universes are currently not used for the franchise daily quests.
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Hero Level is a series of unlocks for specific heroes. Each hero has their own level, and playing games with them will increase their level (alongside your player level). Here are hero unlocks:
  • Level 5: 500 Gold
  • Level 6: Hero Portrait; Mount Tint #1
  • Level 7: Hero Tint #1
  • Level 8: Hero Tint #2
  • Level 9: Hero Master Portrait; Mount Tint #2; 750 Gold
  • Level 10: Allows purchase of Master Skin (10,000 gold)
  • Level 15: 1,000 Gold
  • Level 20: 2,000 Gold

To unlock Ranked Modes, you must own at least 14 heroes that are level five or higher. Free rotation heroes count towards this total so long as they meet this level requirement.

Recruit-a-Friend
Blizzard introduced the RAF program in their December update. With this program veteran players will earn rewards for recruiting new members. New members also get bonuses. It's a win-win for everyone!

Veteran RAF rewards:
  • A Portrait when 1 friend reaches account level 10
  • Vulture Mount when 4 friends reach account level 10

Recruit RAF rewards:
  • A 5-day stimpack
  • Jim Raynor as a free hero at account level 1
  • Sylvanas as a free hero upon reaching account level 10
  • A Portrait when reaching account level 10
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What are some good newbie heroes?
Assassin: Raynor, Warrior: Muradin, Support: Li Li, and Specialist: Nazeebo. Avoid Abathur,
(Cho'gall, Rexxar, Murky, and the Lost Vikings as they have very atypical designs that are best played when you have more experience with the game.)

What's the best way to get experience?
Quick Match. Practice has an experience penalty, and cooperative games are (on average) shorter than Quick Match games. This means you spend more time in queues when doing co-op whereas QM you are in the game earning XP (it's time-based for xp earned per game). There's also the 50,000 xp win bonus you get from QM that you can't from co-op. Hero and Team League are probably worse xp because you have to spend time picking heroes. The only reason to play co-op is because you just can't win in QM for a daily.

What is the fastest way to get gold?
There is none. First, do the tutorials. They don't net you a ton of gold, but it's a decent amount and worth spending ~30-45 minutes to get. From there, the least slow way is to do your daily quest (the game saves up to three quests so you can miss a day or two) and then play with friends on heroes you have not gotten to level five or nine with yet. Start with heroes you don't own yet, and then switch to owned heroes if you manage to get all 10 free rotation heroes to level 5 or 9 within a week. That right there is about 5000 gold a week for the next month or so, not counting gold from account levels and games played. Once you hit 40 and have all heroes to level nine you can then do dailies (about 250 gold a day) and grind heroes to 15 and 20 for more gold, but the latter is a significantly longer process than getting a hero to level five or nine.

Do not buy stimpacks. They are not worth the money unless you can play around 10+ games a day for a month straight. The seven-day stimpacks are even worse.

Also, each week a hero is on sale for 25%-50% off real-world money prices, so that's another option if you're willing to lay down hard cash on the game.

When is the next patch?
Patches have been on a fairly consistent seven-week cycle since launch. Basically a patch will go up on PTR for a week, then it goes live with a new hero. Three weeks later, the second hero in that patch is released but there are no changes barring minor bugfixes or something. Then three weeks after that the next patch goes up on PTR, and the cycle begins anews.

How does the new hero pricing model work?
All new heroes are released at a starting cost of 15k. This price will be in place for 2 weeks. After 2 weeks, the price drops to 10k. Beyond that, there is no set rule or guideline for when a hero will further drop in price. Blizzard has occasionally gone through and updated hero pricing on multiple heroes at once, (i.e. when they made Li Li a 2k hero and Arthas a 7k hero), but there's no hard rule for when older heroes get price drops.

Cross Promotional stuff?
World of Warcraft
WoW Character Level 100: Wolf Mount (HotS)
HotS Account Level 20: Grave Golem Pet (WoW)
Legion Deluxe Edition: Felstalker Mount (HotS)

Diablo 3
Seasonal Character 70: Malthael's Phantom Mount (HotS)
HotS Account Level 12: Pennant and Player Border (D3)

Starcraft 2
Buy Legacy of the Void (any version): Unlock Artanis (HotS)
Buy Legacy of the Void Collector's Edition: Void Seeker Mount (HotS)

Hearthstone
Win 100 Games: Hearthstone Card Mount (HotS)
HotS Account Level 12: HotS Themed Card Back (HS)

Overwatch
Buy Overwatch Origins OR Collector's Edition: Unlock Tracer (HotS)

How do I play with all of you fine people?
Type "/join heroes of the wang" in game to join our PA chat channel. Great for finding games! Also, check out the Battle Tag list

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ecv0bT9DEo

milk ducks on
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Posts

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    GroveGrove Los AngelesRegistered User regular
    I love this game!

    Bought Chromie today for 1/2 off...damn she's got a learnin curve. Also had several great Greyman games. He's finally starting to click.

    Selling PS3 & 360 Madcatz TE Stick
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    Undead MonkeyUndead Monkey Anchorage, AKRegistered User regular
    Grove wrote: »
    I love this game!

    Bought Chromie today for 1/2 off...damn she's got a learnin curve. Also had several great Greyman games. He's finally starting to click.

    My favorite duo with Chromie so far is with Arthas. He has so much in the way of lockdown and slows, it allows Chromie to go on a murder spree with all her skill shots.

    SteamID: Pudgestomp
    XBL: InvaderJims
    Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Grove wrote: »
    I love this game!

    Bought Chromie today for 1/2 off...damn she's got a learnin curve. Also had several great Greyman games. He's finally starting to click.

    My favorite duo with Chromie so far is with Arthas. He has so much in the way of lockdown and slows, it allows Chromie to go on a murder spree with all her skill shots.

    Xul

    Xul is the ultimate Chromie buddy. Xul brings the wave clear and the lockdown, Chromie brings the pain. Bone Prison has the same cooldown as Dragon's Breath and locks the target down for long enough to land it and it's got lead up time so Chromie can prepare and it's an easy point and click.

    Xul and Chromie just walk up, Xul clicks on the things that are bad and should go away and then Chromie shits all over their heads.

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    NeurotikaNeurotika Registered User regular
    Grove wrote: »
    I love this game!

    Bought Chromie today for 1/2 off...damn she's got a learnin curve. Also had several great Greyman games. He's finally starting to click.

    My favorite duo with Chromie so far is with Arthas. He has so much in the way of lockdown and slows, it allows Chromie to go on a murder spree with all her skill shots.

    I love Chrome's slow ult with Purifier Beam and Target Purified

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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited August 2016
    Dibby on
    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    edited August 2016
    ed: Oh wait someone posted notes alerady in previous thread.

    WOO HAMMER TIME!

    MMMig on
    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    From last thread:

    http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/20245464/upcoming-heroes-of-the-storm-balance-update-august-24-2016-8-22-2016

    Patch Notes for those that can't read the link:
    ASSASSIN

    GALL

    Talents

    Level 1
    Shove (Active)
    Cooldown reduced from 30 to 20 seconds

    Level 7
    Double Trouble (Q)
    Cooldown reduction increased from 1 to 1.25 seconds

    Level 16
    Giant Scorcher (Q)
    Damage increased from 3 to 3.5% of target’s maximum Health


    GREYMANE

    Abilities

    Razor Swipe (Q)
    Damage reduced from 159 to 135
    Go for the Throat (R)
    Damage reduced from 420 to 355
    Marked for the Kill (R)
    Damage increased from 68 to 190

    Talents

    Level 1
    Wolfheart (W)
    Cooldown reduction per attack reduced from 1 to .8 seconds

    Level 4
    Eyes in the Dark (E)
    Stealth duration reduced from 4 to 3 seconds

    Level 7
    Incendiary Elixir (Q)
    Increased the damage bonus per quest stack from 10 to 15
    Increased the maximum damage bonus from 150 to 225

    Level 20
    Unleashed (R)
    Damage bonus per kill increased from 25 to 35%, up to a maximum of 140%

    Developer Comments: We’re pretty happy with the way Greymane is playing, but think that he’s doing more burst damage than we want from a Basic Attack focused Hero (at a very consistent rate). We’ve decided to address this by reducing the damage of Go for the Throat and Razor Swipe. We’re also increasing the damage of Marked for the Kill. While the focus of the Heroic is the long term Vulnerable, by increasing the damage we’re reducing the opportunity cost of giving up Marked for the Kill.



    GUL'DAN

    Talents

    Level 1
    Echoed Corruption (E)
    Number of hits required to complete quest increased from 30 to 35

    Level 7
    Curse of Exhaustion (E)
    Slow duration increased from 2 to 2.5 seconds

    Level 13
    Fel Armor (Q)
    Ability damage reduction increased from 30 to 40%

    Level 16
    Rampant Hellfire (Q)
    Damage bonus increased from 6% per stack (30% max) to 8% per stack (40% max)
    Darkness Within (Trait)
    Damage bonus increased from 20 to 25%

    Developer Comments: While he has an acceptable win rate in the hands of experienced players, we felt that Gul’dan could use a few minor buffs and talent tweaks to help make his talent tiers more competitive. His Echo of Corruption quest ended up being completed earlier than we intended for such a strong effect, so we’re increasing the amount of Hero hits required. We are also are seeing a higher win rate for his Ruinous Affliction talent compared to others on his Level 16 tier. Rather than nerf this talent, we decided to buff the other options to make the tier more competitive and to make his late-game power spike more powerful.


    SUPPORT

    AURIEL

    Stats

    Basic Attack damage increased from 48 to 60

    Abilities

    Sacred Sweep (Q)
    Outer damage reduced from 80 to 75
    Inner damage reduced from 160 to 150
    Resurrect (R)
    Cooldown reduced from 90 to 70 seconds
    Range increased from 4 to 5

    Talents

    Level 1
    Increasing Clarity (Q)
    Lowered the quest bonus damage for each stack from 3 to 2
    Increased the number of hits required to complete the quest from 20 to 25
    Quest completion bonus increased from 60 to 70. The total damage bonus will remain at 120

    Level 7
    Empathic Link (D)
    Energy reduced from 25 to 20% of Bestow Hope target’s damage taken
    Glimmer of Hope (W)
    Energy reduction from globes increased from 35 to 50%
    Energized Cord (W)
    Increased Energy gain from Auriel’s Basic Attacks from 100%/30% to 100%/50%

    Level 13
    Blinding Flash (Q)
    Blind duration reduced from 4 to 3 seconds

    Level 20
    Diamond Resolve (R)
    Damage resistance duration increased from 4 to 5 seconds

    Developer Comments: Auriel has had a very strong release. We’re happy to see some fresh blood (or hope) in the support scene, but do think that as players continue to master the newest Hero in the Nexus that her winrate will continue to climb. As such, we’re reducing the power of her Sacred Sweep Talents, as well as reducing some of her Energy gain from Empathic Link. We’ve also transferred some of her damage (and consequently her Energy gain) from Sacred Sweep into her Basic Attacks, as we found them more lackluster than we’d like and not worth the risk necessary to use them.



    SPECIALIST

    SGT. HAMMER

    Abilities

    Thrusters (Z)
    Thrusters are now always active while in the Altar of Storms
    Artillery (Trait)
    Now also increases Sgt. Hammer’s Basic Attack range by 20%

    Talents

    Level 1
    Lethal Blast (W)
    Removed

    Level 4
    Maelstrom Shells (Passive)
    Removed

    Level 7
    Hyper-Cooling Engines (Z)
    Cooldown reduction increased from 10 to 15 seconds
    No longer makes Thrusters always active while in the Hall of Storms

    Developer Comments: We’re planning to do a deeper dive into our favorite Siege Tank down the road, but in the meantime we felt Sgt. Hammer could use a few changes to make her feel more competitive compared to other heroes. Sgt. Hammer was originally designed to be the master of ranged damage, but has since become outshined by other poke heroes like Li-Ming and Chromie. To help her assert her spot again as a scary ranged damage-dealer, we’re making Maelstrom Shells a part of her baseline Artillery Trait, which should also help that tier’s pick rates. We’re also giving her a bit of a quality of life improvement by making her Thrusters always active when she leaves the Hall of Storms, which should help her get back to the game faster from her base.



    WARRIOR

    CHO

    Talents

    Level 7
    I AM Hurrying! (Z)
    Duration increased from 1.5 to 2 seconds

    Level 13
    Runic Feedback (E)
    Cooldown reduction increased from 1 to 1.25 seconds


    STITCHES

    Abilities

    Gorge (R)
    Cooldown reduced from 80 to 60 seconds
    Mana cost reduced from 80 to 70


    TYRAEL

    Abilities

    El'druin's Might (Q)
    Cooldown increased from 11 to 12 seconds
    Judgment (R)
    Cooldown reduced from 80 to 70 seconds
    ​Sanctification (R)
    Cooldown increased from 70 to 80 seconds


    Talents

    Level 4
    Horadric Reforging (Q)
    Cooldown reduction increased from 3 to 5 seconds

    Level 7
    Reciprocate (W)
    Damage reduced from 200 to 170
    Angel’s Grace (Q)
    Movement Speed increased from 30 to 40%
    Searing Attacks (Active)
    Removed
    Follow Through (Passive)
    Added

    Level 13
    Imposing Will (W)
    Fixed bug that was causing the Movement Speed slow to inconsistently stack with all other Movement Speed slows
    Angelic Absorption (W)
    Increased healing amount from 156 over 3 seconds to 208 over 4 seconds

    Level 16
    Salvation (W)
    Increased bonus Shields from 35 to 45% per affected ally

    Developer Comments: Tyrael has been trending upward since he last received a Talent update, and has reached a point where we’re ready to do a few nerfs to our Archangel of Justice. The major target points are a few of the over performing Talents, as well as some slight adjustments to a few of his cooldowns. Coupled with these nerfs, we’re also buffing a few of the lesser picked Talents so that he has more compelling options at every tier.

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    WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    edited August 2016
    Been a while since the esports conversation came around again. If anyone remembers kings of the storm, this is supposed to be the successor. Bunch of recognizable names attached (solid Jake, dunktrain,z oia etc)

    https://battlefy.com/arcane8/bloodlust/57ab9f40794565210c76e892/info

    WingedWeasel on
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    JarsJars Registered User regular
    I was playing murky and had a thrall that wanted to kill me so bad he used sunder on me alone 3 separate times

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    Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    Jars wrote: »
    I was playing murky and had a thrall that wanted to kill me so bad he used sunder on me alone 3 separate times

    I was there for this, and it was hilarious. I was Rehgar, and it's fun because Rehg's Q on Murky basically heals him to full, so Thrall would blow his ult and I'd pop Murky back up to full and then we'd giggle and Thrall would die. A Good Time.


    Re: Hammer, I am Excited for having Malestrom Shells automatically included in her kit, yes I am.

    See You Space Cowboy: a ttrpg about sad space bounty hunters
    https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Patch is live it seems.

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    SupagoatSupagoat Registered User regular
    Yah I might try playing Hammer again just for giggles. Haven't tried her for a long time. Her win rate is actually surprisingly high despite the impression I'd gotten that she sucks right now.

    bnet: Supagoat#1884
    Switch: 6589-6405-3399
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    Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    Supagoat wrote: »
    Yah I might try playing Hammer again just for giggles. Haven't tried her for a long time. Her win rate is actually surprisingly high despite the impression I'd gotten that she sucks right now.

    She's still *good*, it's just that Li-Ming and Chromie wreck her, and Xul overall outshines ALL the other pusher-type Specialists. Her low mobility means that she's got a giant KICK ME sign on her for Chromie, and until now Li-Ming could lazor her from juuuust outside her range if you didn't take Maelstrom Shells and/or Graduating Range.

    WELL NOW WHATS UP LI-MING >| WHO HAS RANGE N-- /is killed by a Xul + Chromie tag-team

    See You Space Cowboy: a ttrpg about sad space bounty hunters
    https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
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    MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    Played Leo a couple of times in QM recently.


    Man, he's soooo much fun.

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Supagoat wrote: »
    Yah I might try playing Hammer again just for giggles. Haven't tried her for a long time. Her win rate is actually surprisingly high despite the impression I'd gotten that she sucks right now.

    She's still *good*, it's just that Li-Ming and Chromie wreck her, and Xul overall outshines ALL the other pusher-type Specialists. Her low mobility means that she's got a giant KICK ME sign on her for Chromie, and until now Li-Ming could lazor her from juuuust outside her range if you didn't take Maelstrom Shells and/or Graduating Range.

    WELL NOW WHATS UP LI-MING >| WHO HAS RANGE N-- /is killed by a Xul + Chromie tag-team

    Maelstrom won't change shit. It doesn't matter if you can get a hit or two in on her, Li-Ming can run into range, chuck her Q/W combo at you and jump out. And this will always trade favourably with Hammer as long as there's nothing between Li-Ming and Hammer to intercept the attacks. In large part because Li-Ming unloads her shit ton of ranged damage in one big burst whereas Hammer is an AA hero and so spreads her damage out over time.

    The biggest issue with Hammer is still that she's designed around trading mobility for huge range. Except her range isn't as huge as it used to be, comparatively, and the game has since been loaded down with a ton of burst and a ton of nasty abilities that punish standing still. Her design is cool and fun and absolutely shit on by the direction the game has taken over the last like year.

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    MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    They did mention she's getting a rework soon and the range is just a quality of life change, similar to her HP buff recently.

    SO! I think / hope she's going to find a spot, even if it's niche.


    This range upgrade helps her a lot in the right comp. You don't have to always be in siege mode with her. I only really use siege when it's a guaranteed 2-3 hits to clear a wave fast or poke a tower.


    She'll also benefit from the bigger maps and slower mount speed since it'll help her even out a bit more.

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    WOOOOOO NEW THREAD BITCHAAAAAAAZZZZZ

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    Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    MMMig wrote: »
    Played Leo a couple of times in QM recently.


    Man, he's soooo much fun.

    I don't think I own him yet, but he's top of my list for next dude to buy.

    See You Space Cowboy: a ttrpg about sad space bounty hunters
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    NeurotikaNeurotika Registered User regular
    Playing as Medivh with a Kael:

    "My death wasn't quite the... setback that yours was."

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    WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Supagoat wrote: »
    Yah I might try playing Hammer again just for giggles. Haven't tried her for a long time. Her win rate is actually surprisingly high despite the impression I'd gotten that she sucks right now.

    She's still *good*, it's just that Li-Ming and Chromie wreck her, and Xul overall outshines ALL the other pusher-type Specialists. Her low mobility means that she's got a giant KICK ME sign on her for Chromie, and until now Li-Ming could lazor her from juuuust outside her range if you didn't take Maelstrom Shells and/or Graduating Range.

    WELL NOW WHATS UP LI-MING >| WHO HAS RANGE N-- /is killed by a Xul + Chromie tag-team

    Maelstrom won't change shit. It doesn't matter if you can get a hit or two in on her, Li-Ming can run into range, chuck her Q/W combo at you and jump out. And this will always trade favourably with Hammer as long as there's nothing between Li-Ming and Hammer to intercept the attacks. In large part because Li-Ming unloads her shit ton of ranged damage in one big burst whereas Hammer is an AA hero and so spreads her damage out over time.

    The biggest issue with Hammer is still that she's designed around trading mobility for huge range. Except her range isn't as huge as it used to be, comparatively, and the game has since been loaded down with a ton of burst and a ton of nasty abilities that punish standing still. Her design is cool and fun and absolutely shit on by the direction the game has taken over the last like year.

    i'd like to have seen some of her other stuff rolled into the baseline kit. i don't know if graduating range would be too absurd (possibly) but she needs something else to help her survivability.

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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    Baseline hover siege (at say like, 40%), talent becomes a speed increase while hovering

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    WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    Baseline hover siege (at say like, 40%), talent becomes a speed increase while hovering

    i was thinking that but i don't know if it will help the situation. i don't think she moves quick enough to dodge anything while sieged even with hover, does she? if she doesn't then there won't be much appreciable difference.

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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Yeah I don't know what to do with Hammer. I feel like in any situation where you would want Hammer, you could literally just take Raynor and would be better off for it across the board. Or you could take other heroes such as Greymane or Li-Ming (or even Chromie) and you would get more advantages in whatever trade-offs there might be.

    Mobility is becoming more and more important in the game, and long range is not only less unique in the general hero pool, but doesn't fully compensate for a lack of mobility.

    Maybe if they made it so that every shot in Siege mode had to be aimed like Napalm, but also included both splash and a Napalm-like effect? And then replaced Napalm with something like a Drop Ship, which picks up Hammer and drops her in a different location, a la Medivac?

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    PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    edited August 2016
    Or give her some REAL siege range.

    Like, sitting in core to first towers range.

    EDIT: Actually, a thought along those lines... what if siege mode was made one of her ults and supercharged appropriately, and napalm was moved to a regular ability?

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    SupagoatSupagoat Registered User regular
    ml10tn020jwq.jpg

    Hammer confirmed good.

    bnet: Supagoat#1884
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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    QM doesn't count. =P

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Yes, my impression from this afternoon is that Hammer is fairly good in QM now because you can roll the dice and not get put against a comp that can deal with you. And also because there's Auriel's everywhere in QM right now.

    So you are for sure getting at least 1 support on your team, you can take Vigorous Assault for even more heals and then hopefully luck into a comp that can't deal with hammer + pocket healer(s).

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Baseline hover siege (at say like, 40%), talent becomes a speed increase while hovering

    i was thinking that but i don't know if it will help the situation. i don't think she moves quick enough to dodge anything while sieged even with hover, does she? if she doesn't then there won't be much appreciable difference.

    The better solution I think is to give her something like Gall's Shove. A quick bump in one direction, maybe only usable in Siege Mode, to quickly dodge skill shots.

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    SupagoatSupagoat Registered User regular
    I do think giving her a slower hover siege would be a benefit. It's not about dodging as much as having to unsiege/resiege every time you want to make a minor position correction. It becomes less important with graduating range... But at the same time it also stacks with graduating range really well so that you can keep at max graduating range more because even with GR you still need to unsiege/resiege to reposition as a push moves forward

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    SupagoatSupagoat Registered User regular
    You know, I had never taken Vigrous Assault before and ... Man it is SO GOOD. That past game I went for that and because of it I took hypercooling engines and the extra mobility plus the sustain was really awesome.

    But yes, I agree, I wouldn't first pick Hammer because there are definitely counters to her, but if I was able to last pick her? Oh yeah, totally.

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    MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    Or just give her a ton of hp just like a real tank.

    Like, give her cho levels of hp so she could take a full combo and just not disappear instantly. Before her hp buff she only needed half a combo before disintegrating.

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    wra
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    morgan_cokemorgan_coke Registered User regular
    I think a better solution would be a shield for 20 or 30% of her health that would proc when she goes into siege mode. That would help tremendously with offsetting the many issues with going immobile.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    MMMig wrote: »
    Or just give her a ton of hp just like a real tank.

    Like, give her cho levels of hp so she could take a full combo and just not disappear instantly. Before her hp buff she only needed half a combo before disintegrating.

    That would be a nightmare. The only way she's even remotely balanced in siege mode is that you can kill her without a ridiculous Cho'Gall level of effort.

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    MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    I mean don't make her unkillable but in reality hammer doesn't provide much utility other than damage and range. She's no zagara, xul, nazeebo, who have damage, cc, make awareness, normal mobility, etc..

    I'm not making light of hammer's damage, but her contribution to a team strategy is limited.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    So mounted speed changes are a thing that is going to happen.

    From 140% down to 130%.

    Some explanation from Blizzard:
    http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/forum/topic/20748844838
    Heroes of the Storm is a team brawler, and we aren’t trying to change that. From all of our internal testing, this change had a minor (healthy) impact on the number of viable strategic options and interesting choices that players can make during a game.

    With that being said, our goals with reducing mount speed are:
    Slowing down the 2-4 man early game gank squads on bigger maps
    - Hopefully this will allow prolonged 1v1 and 2v2 matchups when there are no battleground events up more often. You can still gank, it just won’t always be as effective, and therefore you’ll need to make harder decisions on whether it’s worth it or not.
    Making map-wide team positioning matter more
    - If you commit resources to a Mercenary camp at the top of the map, you might be later to a Tribute spawn on the bottom. This will encourage more interesting strategic choices, forcing you to choose which of the minor objectives (like Mercenaries or Minion waves) are important, or potentially split up your team to get multiple done at once and still reach a map event on time.
    Making recognition of the enemy team’s location on the map more significant
    - With slightly slower mounts, when an opponent disappears from view his radius of places he could potentially be is smaller, allowing more informed decisions. Which, ultimately, rewards better play and mastery of the game.

    That’s briefly summarizing a few of the potential gains that slowing down mount Movement Speed should provide. It’s important to note that there are also downsides if we take it too far, but tuning Heroes’ capability to travel the map is an important part of balancing the game. Theoretically, saying “we’re reducing damage because we think burst is too high” doesn’t mean that we want to completely remove Assassin’s capability to kill someone. The same way, slowing down mounted movement speed slightly doesn’t mean that we don’t want you to quickly traverse the map. Just slightly slower! And we think that we’re getting closer to the perfect balance of the two.

    Right now sticking together as 4 or 5 post level 10 is probably the correct decision 90% of the time. Our goal is to get this to maybe around 80%. Some concrete examples of the difference these mount changes make:
    - The time to run from Cursed Hollow’s top lane to bottom Tribute will be increased from 18.5 to 20 seconds while mounted, with a direct route.
    - The time to run from Sky Temple’s bottom lane to the top temple will be increased from 22 to 24 seconds while mounted, with a direct route.

    To provide some insight into how we do design, sometimes we test extremes to see if the direction is even worth pursuing before settling on something that feels appropriately tuned. One such example was increasing the mounting cooldown from 4 seconds to 80 seconds, but the Movement Speed was increased from 40% to 80%. Ultimately we didn’t like the extreme change this made to Heroes of the Storm, but it make us think about where we were on the map more often. We really enjoyed that, so we wanted to bring a slightly tamer version of it to live.

    We think that we’ll all still be enjoying those epic 5v5 brawls we’ve all come to love. We just might split up one or two more times between the big fights so that we can get all the minor objectives we’d like before the next big team event will start.

    Some more comments from the Reddit thread:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/4zebgv/blizzcooper_talking_about_mount_speed_changes/
    Many movement speed traits/etc, have been reduced to reflect the change. For example, Rehgar and Falstad have been tuned to make sure they are in line with the alterations.
    In some cases, like Dehaka, there wasn't a change. He can still Brushstalk at the same rate of speed that we've all come to know. More details to come with the PTR, and you'll get to try out the changes for yourself.
    The balance team took the time to dig through every interaction and make sure adjustments were made where needed. With that being said, if you do see something on the PTR that feels off, feel free to give us the feedback. We'll be keeping an eye out.

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    SupagoatSupagoat Registered User regular
    Hrm, I'm not sure I like how that impacts Lunara, assuming they bring her speed down, too... Her ability to chase down walking heroes will be diminished and that's kind of one of her things. Ah well, hopefully it won't be a big impact on her and they certainly want to make the big change even if it has a minor negative impact on one hero.

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    MachwingMachwing It looks like a harmless old computer, doesn't it? Left in this cave to rot ... or to flower!Registered User regular
    ah yes

    the playtest when they bumped the mount cooldown to over a minute was... not fun

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Supagoat wrote: »
    Hrm, I'm not sure I like how that impacts Lunara, assuming they bring her speed down, too... Her ability to chase down walking heroes will be diminished and that's kind of one of her things. Ah well, hopefully it won't be a big impact on her and they certainly want to make the big change even if it has a minor negative impact on one hero.

    Lunara feels like one of the heroes that will be left alone with this change to me.

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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    edited August 2016
    McIntyre plays around with the new Follow Through Tyrael. I did something similar in my own plebian way before the change, and was super underwhelmed with the amount of AA damage Tyrael could do even if you built him specifically for it.

    But with Follow Through, I think some of you might be pleasantly surprised by the amount of burst that it gives you.

    https://youtu.be/-id0Try6fq0



    Note: You get Follow Through procs on both the throw AND the reactivation of Q. The Tyrael assassin dream is real.

    Inquisitor77 on
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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    McIntyre plays around with the new Follow Through Tyrael. I did something similar in my own plebian way before the change, and was super underwhelmed with the amount of AA damage Tyrael could do even if you built him specifically for it.

    But with Follow Through, I think some of you might be pleasantly surprised by the amount of burst that it gives you.

    https://youtu.be/-id0Try6fq0



    Note: You get Follow Through procs on both the throw AND the reactivation of Q. The Tyrael assassin dream is real.

    maaaaaybe i was wrong about follow through on tyrael

    i might have to try this out, shiiiiit

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