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[Game Dev] Somebody's making these things, right?

DelzhandDelzhand Registered User regular
edited September 2016 in Games and Technology
Previous thread at http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/185346/game-dev-unreal-4-13-out-now/p1

It's probably time for a new and updated OP.

The hot news this week is that you can get GameMaker Pro for like $15 bucks for the next 11 days: https://www.humblebundle.com/gamemaker-bundle

Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward - November Elspeth (Sargatanas)
Delzhand on
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Posts

  • KashaarKashaar Low OrbitRegistered User regular
    Just release the OP into early access with vague promises of future improvements.

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  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    My thoughts on game maker is that a clean end user interface makes learning pleasant as someone who worked with arcmap, solidworks, rhino, and autocad in years past.

    For 2D gaming, gamemaker is user friendly and welcoming to anyone coming from other software and a lot of skills and technique translate to it. Asset organization and management has so far been as easy as uploading pictures to facebook. However, do not expect to design the entire game in their software as their sprite design tool falls short of gimp and paint.net. Error reporting could be a lot more informative and I have no fuxking clue how to use the debug tool. I've no experience with sound yet.

    Still, it's help system is diverse and it's community active, so there's going to be a solution or near solution to your problem, somewhere online. There are a lot of tutorials on YouTube and yoyo games recently hired one of their bigger teachers, Shaun Spaulding, as their community lead. He actually responded to my comment on his melee combat videos. :o

    So, in the end, like cooking, the only real limits are your abilities and your ingredients, not these tools.

    Seriously, though. Be prepared to watch a lot of YouTube on 1.5 speed.

    Edit: you can make everything in your game using gamemakers drag-and-drop system

    Anything you can make with the drag and drop system you can mange by using their simple code editor

    Everything you can write in code can be saved as scripts and timelines and inserted into code

    There's also a yuge marketplace letting you buy things for you game like menus, and dialog setups.

    RoyceSraphim on
    wandering
  • DelzhandDelzhand Registered User regular
    Kashaar wrote: »
    Just release the OP into early access with vague promises of future improvements.

    5 gemstones for $2.99
    10 gemstones for $4.99
    15 gemstones for $15.99 (BEST DEAL!)

    OP Expansion Gacha: 5 gemstones

    Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward - November Elspeth (Sargatanas)
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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    So, when are you planning on releasing NuThief, @LaCabra ?

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  • ThendashThendash Registered User regular
    I'm probably wasting my breath here but...
    If you buy the humble bundle, you register those gamemaker keys in their website, then wait for steam keys to be generated in about two weeks time, or download it now from their website.

    Good to know.

    How are you liking Game Maker for your work? Anyone else here deep in the Game Maker ecosystem?

    I bought the bundle but I'll probably stick with Unity, if I was going to move my next step would probably be to move to something like Monogame or Libgdx.

    I started with Game Maker something like 10 years ago, I didn't know how to code so I used the drag and drop system and made some neat little games for my friends and I. Then I learned GML(Game Maker's scripting language) and did some more complex things, released a few small games to the internet, got some downloads, it was a really cool experience. It's a really great tool to get started in game dev, and you definitely can make and sell games with it so it's decently powerful, but if you know how to program then it's probably not worth it to use GM over something like Unity or Unreal.

    RoyceSraphimUselesswarrior
  • KupiKupi Registered User regular
  • OatsOats Registered User regular
    Texture pop-in.

    RoyceSraphimKoopahTroopahoverride367
  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    EDIT: Should have read the thread before reposting, here is a cat gif.

    Uselesswarrior on
    Hey I made a game, check it out @ http://ifallingrobot.com/. (Or don't, your call)
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  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Well kids, what have we learned today?

    Rooms cannot really use timelines
    make sure you remember that timelines should be written as timlinename not timelinename()
    invisible control objects spawning and dying make for an interesting level
    focusing on the code and movement, rather than the art is much more cathartic
    high school calculus as a movement pattern makes you giggle. I'm sure my high school and college teachers are giggling as I try to manipulate the wavelength and amplitude of these dudes

    Edit: I have come to the conclusIon that a master timeline spawning everything would work best for a shmump level set in space or very high in the sky, whereas one set on the ground requires scenery and specific set pieces floating into view.
    So a giant invisible box limiting character movement, scrolling across the room at a constant rate. Spawners activate once the bounding box is in range. Room view focused on that box, not the player (can views focus on invisible objects?

    Or I could clamp it's movement values to a specific range from the control object by setting that in the middle...still the view....

    Edit: It works, kind of. I can't really film it as it only makes sense to my eyes and I haven't drawn good backgrounds yet.
    For anyone who wants to make a shmup in gamemaker.
    Sorry for the lingo but Shaun Spaulding's tutorials would be a great resource to learn all this.
    From gamemaker's tutorials, I learned of the idea of a control object, invisible and on screen.
    I need the player to move along the room (level) and be limited to the range of the screen.
    So I turned on views and had one track the invisible control object which I moved to the center of the room (might need to change the grid snapping for this)
    Then I set a step even for the control object x += movespeed; I set movespeed to 1, just for a test (for pacing and other larger levels, this might need to change)
    That set the view and the moving control, so then I went to my player movement scripts and changed it from
    x = clamp(x, 0, room_width);
    y = clamp(y, 0, room_height);
    
    to
    x = clamp(x, (obj_playercontrol.x -512), (obj_playercontrol.x + 512));
    y = clamp(y, (obj_playercontrol.y - 384), (obj_playercontrol.y + 384));
    
    This moves the player along the room and limits them to the view. Actually........hold on.........
    x = clamp(x, (obj_playercontrol.x -(view_wview[0]/2)), (obj_playercontrol.x + (view_wview[0]/2)));
    y = clamp(y, (obj_playercontrol.y - (view_hview[0]/2)), (obj_playercontrol.y + (view_hview[0]/2)));
    
    That limits it to the view port, so it mostly works. Everything is still a little offset, but that's just some tweaking here and there. I should honestly spawn the control object with instance_create((view_wview[0]/2), (view_hview[0]/2), obj_playercontrol); But I'm not sure if I can set a view to follow an object that ......well......

    room creation code:
    instance_create(50,50, obj_player);
    instance_create((view_wview[0]/2), (view_hview[0]/2), obj_playercontrol); 
    if instance_exists(obj_playercontrol)
        {
        view_object[0] = obj_playercontrol;
        }
    

    Okay, it works, however, it is tracking the control object as it reaches the edge of the view, which drags the player halfway across the screen, so that requires...a border of half the view....she disappears of the left side ]x = clamp(x, (obj_playercontrol.x + 50 - (view_wview[0]/2)), (obj_playercontrol.x + (view_wview[0]/2)));
    Views and ports are a big part of the gamemaker engine, but a bit confusing in how they are described. The latter is the resolution of the room you are looking at, the former the window you are looking into the room with.

    RoyceSraphim on
    Jacoby
  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    I have a talk upcoming on ECS (Entity Component Systems) at a local Game Dev Meetup. Assuming it's not a complete disaster I am hoping to get that online so I can share it with you guys.

    I don't do a lot of public speaking and I've basically been a mole man for the last 4 months when I developed my game. So let's assume I survive the first step of emerging from my hole into a sunlight world, does anyone here who has played around with ECS (or have a passing interest in it) have any specific things they would like answered / covered?

    Also anyone here ever do a talk like this? Any tips for keeping it entertaining / informative?

    Hey I made a game, check it out @ http://ifallingrobot.com/. (Or don't, your call)
    RoyceSraphimRaslin
  • DelzhandDelzhand Registered User regular
    Man, making the jump from OOP to ECS was like... the hardest part of switching from XNA to Unity back when I did it. Ironically, XNA was actually built to support ECS, but I didn't understand it at the time. I think the key to making a talk like that entertaining and informative is to have good examples that speak directly to game development. I remember in college the professors would use vague shit like "the mover interface is implemented by the classes horse and car" and it didn't really stick with me. If they'd been talking about how "zombies and and vampires both implement the bite interface", maybe it would have held my attention.

    Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward - November Elspeth (Sargatanas)
    Uselesswarrior
  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    What's scary is that I understood your second example more than the first.

  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    Oh man, there is nothing quite like college professors explaining OO.

    I have my game, which is about 20k LOC and honestly got a bit sloppy towards the end because I wanted to get it done. I also have a ECS sample project up at https://github.com/JamesMcMahon/entitas-2d-roguelike. Unfortunately it was one of the first things I wrote in ECS so I've being going through the process of cleaning it up.

    I'm hoping to get some good concrete examples going of how ECS can make a codebase a lot more manageable.

    Hey I made a game, check it out @ http://ifallingrobot.com/. (Or don't, your call)
  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    Also don't know if you guys saw this, https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/google-runs-on-5000-times-more-code-than-the-original-space-shuttle.

    TbXvNQFlK2ByAc-yGypoVs2WoDe41EBxNAFJpCkcgLc.png

    My big take away is the Wow has 5 million lines of code. Just staggering to think about. I believe they are using a ECS architecture.

    Hey I made a game, check it out @ http://ifallingrobot.com/. (Or don't, your call)
    KoopahTroopahRoyceSraphimKashaar
  • NaphtaliNaphtali Null Registered User regular
    ah, good old Window 7

    I'm honestly curious how they came to some of these totals. I feel like a few are far more accurate than others, or they include library use as "own-code" in some places and not others.

    B.net: Naphtali#1830 | Steam | Nintendo ID: Naphtali | PSN: EI-Naphtali | Wish List
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  • KashaarKashaar Low OrbitRegistered User regular
    It's Screenshot Saturday! You know what that means.
    ...It means videos, obviously.



    WIP of our new title screen :-)

    kashaar.pngDev Blog | Twitter | Tumblr | Steam
    Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.

    I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    been messing around in ue4 a bit with texturing etc

    uyjTCk8.jpg

    obF2Wuw.png
    KashaarKoopahTroopahElvenshaeUselesswarriorRoyceSraphimMahnmutCalicaGenji-Gloveswandering
  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    been messing around in ue4 a bit with texturing etc

    uyjTCk8.jpg

    Reminds me of the design work for retro parody site Everything Is Terrible.

    everything-is-terrible-o.gif

    Hey I made a game, check it out @ http://ifallingrobot.com/. (Or don't, your call)
  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    I'm hearing that 80s
    doo doo doo
    weeeeee weweeee weweeee

    surrealitycheckPLAKoopahTroopah
  • JacobyJacoby Registered User regular

    GameCenter: ROldford
    surrealitycheckRoyceSraphimKetar
  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Was perusing Reddit today during my off time at work and noticed www.codingame.com on the front page, which is a website that is supposed to help improve your coding skills (not necessarily teach you languages) in particular game programming development skills.

    Does anyone have any experience and care to share?

    KoopahTroopah on
    mctrbhK.gif
    Steam - Battle.net - Koopah089 - PSN - KoopahTroopah - Smash Bros WiiU
  • MachwingMachwing It looks like a harmless old computer, doesn't it? Left in this cave to rot ... or to flower!Registered User regular
    https://github.com/20tab/UnrealEnginePython

    somebody bound UE4 to Python. YES, YES, THIS IS WHAT I WANT

    l3icwZV.png
    UselesswarriorMahnmutRoyceSraphimKoopahTroopahAkimboEGGlal
  • CornucopiistCornucopiist Registered User regular
    Kashaar wrote: »
    It's Screenshot Saturday! You know what that means.
    ...It means videos, obviously.

    WIP of our new title screen :-)

    Haha Lugg all this time I had no idea you were even on Penny Arcade forums.

    Q: are you guys planning to make those clouds dynamic?

    KashaarElvenshae
  • KashaarKashaar Low OrbitRegistered User regular
    Kashaar wrote: »
    It's Screenshot Saturday! You know what that means.
    ...It means videos, obviously.

    WIP of our new title screen :-)

    Haha Lugg all this time I had no idea you were even on Penny Arcade forums.

    Q: are you guys planning to make those clouds dynamic?

    Paul, is that you? :D Amazing.

    A: Somewhat. For our October trade show demo probably not, but I am planning to go a bit crazy with the tech art in this project once we finally have some time without having to worry about the next deadline.

    kashaar.pngDev Blog | Twitter | Tumblr | Steam
    Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.

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  • CornucopiistCornucopiist Registered User regular
    Soo, question. I'm very new at this, working on my first Unity game. I am a single developer and not looking to invest more than one/two months per game given the average revenue. Which, my first game seems to indicate is a reasonable time to get a clean build finished if I kill feature creep with fire.
    So I really focus on KISS.
    However, to me, this also means the whole thing could quickly be duplicated by anyone putting in less effort and using off the shelf assets. I don't want my game to drown among a dozen knockoffs à là 'The Asylum'.
    This fixation means I'm not very keen on pushing screenshots out there, giving access to builds, etc.
    How founded is that paranoia? How damaging would a knockoff be?

    I don't plan to push my way up past more experienced (and perhaps deserving) developers on gamedev fora, but I target a specific hobbyist demographic and now would be the time to start posting on those fora... Can I stop worrying and learn to love the reveal?

  • KashaarKashaar Low OrbitRegistered User regular
    Hmm, what's your target platform? Cheap knockoffs are most prevalent on mobile... from what I've heard that is generally a pretty hostile market. Apart from that: ideas are cheap, and execution is king (and what takes the most effort). The benefit of building an audience early (and over multiple games) probably far outweighs the risk of someone taking an idea and running off with it.

    kashaar.pngDev Blog | Twitter | Tumblr | Steam
    Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.

    I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
  • CornucopiistCornucopiist Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Yeah, I'm targeting mobile. It's about the scale I can handle with a day job and a family.

    Also I can't splurge on PC hardware like you guys :D (devving on my old Lenovo thinkpad atm with 'DX 11 on DX9' emulation.)

    I guess you're right, but I think to really be at ease I need to grok what separates the good games from the chaff. Google Play is a nightmare of knockoffs. edit: clarification: I'm not accepting that people will simply flock to the better game. There should be a less haphazard process than that. Reviews?

    re: Floppy. "go a bit crazy with the tech art" that sounds crazy hardcore. Looking forward to that. But much concur: for a demo you need game play. The times when people used to get knocked over by graphics are past.

    BTW: If you have an android phone I can hit you up with a build.

    Cornucopiist on
    Kashaar
  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    Knockoffs are kind of a good problem to have, it means people give a shit enough about your game to clone it.

    Realistically anything a single person builds in less then 2 years is going to be easy to clone by a larger team that is just copying your design. Your advantages are going to be, you actually give a shit and understand your design and execute on the finer details, you are going to be first to market and if you marketing is good enough to be get you noticed by clone developers then you should have s decent number of users.

    Also the big thing about mobile games is that making a good fun game is often antithetical to making money in the mobile space. It's sad but true. So unless you get incredibly lucky and go viral or have an established connection to the circle of game reviews (think Super Hexagon) be prepared to put things in your game that will drive actual "gamers" away. Things like microtransactions and timers.

    I don't have a lot of experience, so I am not speaking from a position of authority. But before I did my mobile game I did work on the outskirts of mobile gaming and got exposed to the surprisingly large world of large well resourced companies trying to make it big in the mobile space and largely failing.

    Hey I made a game, check it out @ http://ifallingrobot.com/. (Or don't, your call)
    RendKashaar
  • CornucopiistCornucopiist Registered User regular
    You're absolutely right on the making money part. Ads would ruin the feel. Nobody buys up front. I have the feeling that microtransactions are going to put a lot of support demands on me... There's no 'good' option.

    It's no surprise people try kick starters.

    I'm not far from saying 'screw the conventional logic, I'm just going to charge 3$ up front and see where it gets me.' It's supposedly suicide, but then this is an initial game I can almost write off for experience.

  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    I mean if it's for a game you develop in 2 months you can totally just consider it an experiment.

    Hey I made a game, check it out @ http://ifallingrobot.com/. (Or don't, your call)
  • CornucopiistCornucopiist Registered User regular
    Not without a little pain in my heart, but that's how it goes I guess. Might I ask how much time you put into I,falling robot?

  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Not without a little pain in my heart, but that's how it goes I guess. Might I ask how much time you put into I,falling robot?

    From March to early August, so about 5 months. Not just dev work in there, I worked with a contractor for the art, did my own marketing, did a lot of learning while doing, and there was also time in there that I was super burnt out and didn't get much done vs weeks of being hyper productive.

    Uselesswarrior on
    Hey I made a game, check it out @ http://ifallingrobot.com/. (Or don't, your call)
    CornucopiistElvenshae
  • DelzhandDelzhand Registered User regular
    To be totally honest, I don't think you can expect to put in 2 months of off-hours dev time on a game and expect to make money unless you've discovered an insane new hook, like Canabalt, Flappy Bird, or Downwell. If you want to learn to make games, make games, but if you're doing it for some side cash because it sounds fun, you'll probably be gravely disappointed.

    Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward - November Elspeth (Sargatanas)
    Thendash
  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    And just for reference, I believe Downwell took over a year to develop (don't remember the exact number of months since I watched the talk a few months ago).

    Here is a really good talk on it if anyone is interested, http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1023533/Polishing-the-Boots-Designing-Downwell.

    Hey I made a game, check it out @ http://ifallingrobot.com/. (Or don't, your call)
  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2016

    You know...

    Just your average Thursday.

    Khavall on
    KashaarIzzimachUselesswarriorCornucopiistElvenshae
  • CornucopiistCornucopiist Registered User regular
    @Delzhand I was looking to build something much more modest and end it after one month, but development went faster than expected.
    Unity is very efficient. And well-documented. Then again, the last game builder I worked with was Cold Stone

    Now, granted, it's not a very high-concept game. You fly a seaplane to pick up packets, drop them of for credits, spend the credits to upgrade your plane. No insane new hook. My modelling is all I've got going for me.

    tl9vv7mml74o.png

    For meshes all I have to do is save into the Unity project folder from Blender and drag 'n drop materials on them. The engine below took me about 4 hours. I'll need 12 more engines, and more fuselages, floats, and islands though not all at the same detail level I hope (5000 faces for the engine is really overkill, on my phone I don't even see the wiring).

    ywgde44r1his.png

    However adding assets is pretty much the bulk of the to do list. There's some minor things that need to be added which only need a few more nights. Early next week the coding should be done.

    I also don't stop much to polish; if code works I copy paste the hell out of it. One of my scripts is up to 1000 lines, and I'm sure a coder could cut into that a lot- but I'm not a coder and I don't have the time.
    If that were to cut into my framerates I'd have stopped to fix it- but it doesn't really. If I ever get solid revenue I'll probably pay a guy to look at it.

    KashaarElvenshaeKoopahTroopahIzzimachRoyceSraphimDrez
  • DelzhandDelzhand Registered User regular
    Color me impressed - that's a phenomenal amount of output for such a short timeframe.

    Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward - November Elspeth (Sargatanas)
    RoyceSraphimIanatortemplewulfDrez
  • CornucopiistCornucopiist Registered User regular
    Thanks! You're also working in Unity?

  • DelzhandDelzhand Registered User regular
    Yeah, though my projects skew towards the "so ambitious they never get finished" side of things. Right now I'm working on a Legally-Distinct-From-Metroid themed space pirate simulator (at least when I'm not busy trying to buy a house). I've been posting about it mainly in the Metroid thread.

    Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward - November Elspeth (Sargatanas)
    KoopahTroopahRoyceSraphimUselesswarriortemplewulfCornucopiistDrez
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