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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] Brexit, Pursued by a Blair

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Posts

  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    He's probably trying to earn some historical redemption for being such a big murdering war criminal scumbag.

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Man, remember the days when we had the luxury of complaining the government was too centrist.

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Update from Hibernoland! Enda Kenny's response to the pressure being put on him to resign is "Feck off!" He's ignoring it until it goes away, which in fairness has worked for him before. The press are ignoring his ignoring and have been openly asking Fianna Gael TDs if they will run for party leader when he goes. So far everyone I've seen who has been asked has said they absolutely won't, having clearly forgotten about the whole Michael Gove thing next door.

    Enda Kenny is addressing an "All-Island" conference on the impact of Brexit later today. The conference started at 9:30am this morning. I'll let you know if anything interesting crops up.

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited February 2017
    Full text of Blair's speech.

    Tell me that isn't the sort of speech you want the leader of the opposition giving right now to as many people as possible.

    Meanwhile:

    Bogart on
  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    That is a brilliant speech and underscores that whatever problems I had with Blair, I can't deny that he wasn't great at this.

    Then I try to remember anything memorable that Corbyn has ever said and....

    The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    That is a brilliant speech and underscores that whatever problems I had with Blair, I can't deny that he wasn't great at this.

    Then I try to remember anything memorable that Corbyn has ever said and....

    "mandate!"

  • pezgenpezgen Registered User regular
    I just really wish it wasn't Blair saying this. More people dislike Blair than voted for Remain, and swallowing those feelings will be a big ask.

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    I just think that a large number of Remainers will be more than ambivalent about Blair, and that he risks tainting the message. Couldn't they have found someone whose public image is poisoned less by a horrible fuck up of a war than by, dunno, eating a bacon sandwich weirdly instead?

    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    But there is no 'they' looking for an untainted flag-bearer. There's barely any pro-remain message from politicians at all. 80% of Labour are in the car, whistling a happy tune as it heads towards the edge of the cliff.

    He's not actually saying 'follow me', anyway. He's saying for God's sake don't take this lying down.

  • JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    Hey UKIP is having their spring conference where the nuttiest of the nutty come out!

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited February 2017
    I love James O'Brien.

    Some Trump fan phones up to say the media are lying about Trump and O'Brien asks him for an example. More than once. The guy is outraged that someone is asking for examples of the thing he says that happens all the time but promises to actually look at the evidence later. He's certain, it's just that he doesn't have any evidence right now.

    Also this guy, who wanted to leave so he didn't have to obey any EU laws. Name one, he's asked. Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

    Bogart on
  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    edited February 2017
    Bogart wrote: »
    80% of Labour are in the car, whistling a happy tune as it heads towards the edge of the cliff.
    It'll be a Christmas hit, I'm telling you.
    JoeUser wrote: »
    Hey UKIP is having their spring conference where the nuttiest of the nutty come out!
    Shame Jack Chick is no longer around to design official UKIP material.

    Thirith on
    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
  • Werewolf2000adWerewolf2000ad Suckers, I know exactly what went wrong. Registered User regular
    edited February 2017
    I feel the same way about criticisms of Blair's past as I did about criticisms of Hillary Clinton's past - They tend to ring a little hollow if they're coming from the same left-wingers who spent last November wailing over the corpse of a man who once sent people to labour camps for being gay.

    Werewolf2000ad on
    steam_sig.png
    EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!
  • Mc zanyMc zany Registered User regular
    Got to be fair here. this does sounds like a half decent policy.



    Of course there are plenty of problems with this but at least it is a solution rather than the rubble rousing we usually get.

  • zeenyzeeny Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    I love James O'Brien.

    Some Trump fan phones up to say the media are lying about Trump and O'Brien asks him for an example. More than once. The guy is outraged that someone is asking for examples of the thing he says that happens all the time but promises to actually look at the evidence later. He's certain, it's just that he doesn't have any evidence right now.

    Also this guy, who wanted to leave so he didn't have to obey any EU laws. Name one, he's asked. Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

    What a calm radio person. Very easy to instinctively like.

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    Nuttall also wants to fund the NHS by taking £30 billion out of foreign aid.

    Total foreign aid budget is £12 billion.

  • JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    How are Nuttall's chances being perceived?

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    JoeUser wrote: »
    How are Nuttall's chances being perceived?

    Some polls say Labour are just about holding on, some others are saying UKIP are ahead. He hasn't helped himself any during the campaign, which might hurt his chances.

  • pezgenpezgen Registered User regular
    In addition, it seems like the Labour leadership is fuming at Blair for his speech today, thinking that such a prominent Labour politician being so outspoken about staying in the EU will harm Labour's chances in these by-elections. So there's probably an angle of "Look, Labour are really against Brexit" which UKIP could use to overcome the Hillsborough stuff in the next few days.

    And, for the Corbyn camp, there's a perfect scapegoat if they lose - it's all Blair's fault.

  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    Mc zany wrote: »
    Got to be fair here. this does sounds like a half decent policy.



    Of course there are plenty of problems with this but at least it is a solution rather than the rubble rousing we usually get.

    Or you know, the government could start building truly affordable houses instead of leaving things in the hands of private companies who only build 30-40% (depends how well they can weasel their way out of any obligation; also good luck in getting to build the supporting infrastructure) houses that are classified as affordable but actually aren't.

    The idea that the barmy tories that make up UKIP are the ones to sort out any housing problems in this country are barmy / farcical.

    PSN Fleety2009
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    Does Blair count as a Blairite, or would he be more of a Blair Prime?

    Oh brilliant
  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    He's the Anti-Corbyn, clearly.

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    Corbyn has just lost another top aide (Campaigns Chief) as they complain of a 'lack of direction'.

    I think he'll hold on until they can lower the number of MP nominations needed for a leadership candidate and then go.

  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    JoeUser wrote: »
    Hey UKIP is having their spring conference where the nuttiest of the nutty come out!


    Serious question: would UKIP-types be insulted if someone pointed out that those look like stupid American pamphlets (which they do - I've seen and been handed a lot of those types of things) or would they be proud to be copycats of the worst American schlock? I've always had the impression that Brits have at least a slight pride in being a tiny bit classier than Yanks on average, but if they go in for those pamphlets I wonder if UKIP people would wear MAGA caps unironically.

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    Those pamphlets are not common currency in UK politics, and are a bizarre piece of amateurish religious propaganda that will probably be given a wide berth by all but the nuttiest.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    Corbyn has just lost another top aide (Campaigns Chief) as they complain of a 'lack of direction'.

    I think he'll hold on until they can lower the number of MP nominations needed for a leadership candidate and then go.

    Is Labour imploding right now?

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    Not in any way it hasn't been doing so slowly since the last election. Every day the country fails to rock up to Corbyn's doorstep en masse to beg him to take over is another day the faithful have to lie to themselves that it might be tomorrow everyone changes their minds and Labour stops being 18 points behind in the polls. Eventually, they can't sustain the belief and leave.

    Support for the party is draining away, and it'll be tough to get it back. and nothing, nothing can be done to reverse the flow until Corbyn and his cabal go.

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Blair had his problems but he was better than any Tory government and he was an unstoppable electoral titan.

  • kowikowi Registered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    He's the Anti-Corbyn, clearly.

    No doubt about it.

    PSN: kowi - WiiU: kowi - XBL: KoWi - twitch.tv/kowi profile.png - "Yes, Kowi is the King of All" - smilie.png Unbreakable Vow
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Mayabird wrote: »
    JoeUser wrote: »
    Hey UKIP is having their spring conference where the nuttiest of the nutty come out!


    Serious question: would UKIP-types be insulted if someone pointed out that those look like stupid American pamphlets (which they do - I've seen and been handed a lot of those types of things) or would they be proud to be copycats of the worst American schlock? I've always had the impression that Brits have at least a slight pride in being a tiny bit classier than Yanks on average, but if they go in for those pamphlets I wonder if UKIP people would wear MAGA caps unironically.

    I know a few who do, funnily enough. There aren't many UKIP voters in my social circle but the ones I do have are also genuinely enthusiastic supporters of Trump.

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    I just read the text of that speech

    Agree with all of it, pretty much

    And it's a great speech, too

  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited February 2017
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    That is a brilliant speech and underscores that whatever problems I had with Blair, I can't deny that he wasn't great at this.

    Then I try to remember anything memorable that Corbyn has ever said and....

    "mandate!"

    This really is an exceptional speech. It makes me sad to imagine what Blair might have achieved if Bush had decided to satisfy himself with the war in Afghanistan and just persue sanctions against Saddam rather than an invasion. Imagine how different the world would be if instead of invading Iraq we had reached out to Iran.

    tbloxham on
    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    That speech really is spot on. It's a pity that only the first part will get any airtime in the media. I'd strongly recommend reading all of it.
    I was going to highlight the parts I agreed with, but realized I'd just be copy-pasting the entire speech. Above all else is the attitude presented that we should not meekly give in to "brexit at any cost".

  • Werewolf2000adWerewolf2000ad Suckers, I know exactly what went wrong. Registered User regular
    Blair to die for our sins
    He said: “Brexit is wrong and should be reversed. There. I said it. Kill me now.
    “Speak not of my former arrogance which arguably caused an increase in Islamic terrorism and cemented distrust of all politicians, because it is not helpful right now.
    “Instead let me suffer for your misguided vote. Let me say for you the forbidden things: Leave lied, immigration is healthy, this will cost more than you’re prepared to pay."

    Norman Steele of Gateshead said: “Blair dead or Brexit? Wow. He always did know how to make you face tough choices.”

    steam_sig.png
    EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!
  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    That is a brilliant speech and underscores that whatever problems I had with Blair, I can't deny that he wasn't great at this.

    Then I try to remember anything memorable that Corbyn has ever said and....

    "mandate!"

    This really is an exceptional speech. It makes me sad to imagine what Blair might have achieved if Bush had decided to satisfy himself with the war in Afghanistan and just persue sanctions against Saddam rather than an invasion. Imagine how different the world would be if instead of invading Iraq we had reached out to Iran.

    Was never going to happen. GWB may be a beacon of integrity, Intellect and hard work compared to the current occupant of the White House, but lets never forget that he was the original fuck up. He came into office surrounded by Neocon that wanted a war with Iraq from day one and saw 9/11 has heaven sent to make that happen. GWB was the original Trump.

    The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    That is a brilliant speech and underscores that whatever problems I had with Blair, I can't deny that he wasn't great at this.

    Then I try to remember anything memorable that Corbyn has ever said and....

    "mandate!"

    This really is an exceptional speech. It makes me sad to imagine what Blair might have achieved if Bush had decided to satisfy himself with the war in Afghanistan and just persue sanctions against Saddam rather than an invasion. Imagine how different the world would be if instead of invading Iraq we had reached out to Iran.

    Was never going to happen. GWB may be a beacon of integrity, Intellect and hard work compared to the current occupant of the White House, but lets never forget that he was the original fuck up. He came into office surrounded by Neocon that wanted a war with Iraq from day one and saw 9/11 has heaven sent to make that happen. GWB was the original Trump.

    Oh, of course, but I'm just thinking of what a better world it might be if Afghanistan and a massive reconstruction effort there had been enough to satisfy the greed of the war hawks and Military contractors.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Having read that speech there really is nothing to say except "nice speech. Shame it was Tony Blair giving it".

  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    Another interesting story has came out about Brexit - and specifically how the DUP continue to be shady, untrustworthy and just generally a plague on reasonable discourse.

    It turns out the DUP were spending quite a lot on brexit campaigning. So much more in fact that it has been estimated at a level that would have easily exceeded their total assets. You may remember the full page brexit spread on the Metro paper, paid for by the DUP. Estimated cost for that level of advertising on a nation wide basis is £250k - more than the combined spending for all NI parties on the general election. Incidentally the Metro does not circulate in Northern Ireland. This wasn't the only piece of national advertising the DUP were doing either.

    So how could they afford it? The answer is they were getting hefty donations from an unknown source to pay for it. The electoral commission has apparently let slip that it was more than £250k but we don't know anything beyond that. Party donors are kept secret in NI due to laws dating back to the troubles, even though the money was being used on a national campaign.

    So in short somebody was funneling money through the DUP to bankroll leave campaign advertising without being identified.
    https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/peter-geoghegan-adam-ramsay/you-aren-t-allowed-to-know-who-paid-for-key-leave-campaign-adverts

This discussion has been closed.