This puts Flynn in a bind. Say it's true he hasn't flipped, the media reporting this, whether it's bullshit or the truth, will make Putin react by making sure Flynn doesn't get the chance to squeal because the risk is too high to let him live. This becomes the stick prosecutors can use to get him actually flip in exchange for protection.
I'm sorry, but as untouchable as Putin likely is now in Russia, I don't think he would go so far as to try and assassinate an American citizen, especially one who was recently very high in the government.
Ruin them, blackmail them, make their life hell? Sure. But not murder.
Yeah until I see an AP tweet or something I'm not buying it.
Doesn't meant I don't want to buy it. Just need more than twitrer scuttlebutt.
Yeah, the way it is phrased...
"From my sources and what has been openly reported, it increasingly looks like #Flynn may have a deal with the FBI."
The key parts there are "what has been openly reported", "increasingly looks like," and "May have."
That's cable news-ese for "I don't know shit, but me and my friends are gossiping and we think it could be true."
She's careful to not actually make a claim of fact, but rather a claim about the visuals, of interpretation. It looks like Flynn struck a deal is not reporting that "Flynn struck a deal, sources say."
Kana on
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
This puts Flynn in a bind. Say it's true he hasn't flipped, the media reporting this, whether it's bullshit or the truth, will make Putin react by making sure Flynn doesn't get the chance to squeal because the risk is too high to let him live. This becomes the stick prosecutors can use to get him actually flip in exchange for protection.
I'm sorry, but as untouchable as Putin likely is now in Russia, I don't think he would go so far as to try and assassinate an American citizen, especially one who was recently very high in the government.
Ruin them, blackmail them, make their life hell? Sure. But not murder.
Yeah, it is one thing to kill Russians, it is another to kill American generals, even disgraced ones, on American soil. That is the kind of thing that leads somewhere Putin probably does not and should not want to go.
If the Russian government ordered the killing of a US citizen on US soil, especially an ex-command officer and member of the US government, and got found out, then I dunno what would happen but I guarantee that it would involve the US flipping the fuck out and Moscow doesn't want that.
Russia generally kills people as a public scare-tactic. It's always "oops, what an accident, we certainly didn't murder him like we're going to murder you, wink wink".
In 2013 he was working to promote American investment in Russia, specifically working with a bunch of city officials from Moscow. There's been talk that he might even have been Source E, the one that made the introductions, in the Steele dossier. He also "grew up in Russia" according to the Times and is a friend of the families through Jr.
Thousands of people crowded into Moscow's Pushkin Square on Sunday for an unsanctioned protest against the Russian government, part of a wave of demonstrations taking place throughout the country.
Alexei Navalny, the anti-corruption campaigner who is leading the opposition to President Vladimir Putin, was arrested while walking from a nearby subway station to the demonstration, according to Associated Press journalists at the scene.
Navalny and his Foundation for Fighting Corruption had called for the protests, which attracted crowds of hundreds or thousands in most sizeable Russian cities, from the Far East port of Vladivostok to the European heartland. The protests were the largest coordinated outpourings of dissatisfaction in Russia since the massive 2011-12 demonstrations that followed a fraud-tainted parliamentary election.
Thousands of people crowded into Moscow's Pushkin Square on Sunday for an unsanctioned protest against the Russian government, part of a wave of demonstrations taking place throughout the country.
Alexei Navalny, the anti-corruption campaigner who is leading the opposition to President Vladimir Putin, was arrested while walking from a nearby subway station to the demonstration, according to Associated Press journalists at the scene.
Navalny and his Foundation for Fighting Corruption had called for the protests, which attracted crowds of hundreds or thousands in most sizeable Russian cities, from the Far East port of Vladivostok to the European heartland. The protests were the largest coordinated outpourings of dissatisfaction in Russia since the massive 2011-12 demonstrations that followed a fraud-tainted parliamentary election.
Russia is dealing with some civil-unrest today.
I am baffled and impressed that some progressive Russians have adopted the "Putin can't murder us ALL" strategy.
Thousands of people crowded into Moscow's Pushkin Square on Sunday for an unsanctioned protest against the Russian government, part of a wave of demonstrations taking place throughout the country.
Alexei Navalny, the anti-corruption campaigner who is leading the opposition to President Vladimir Putin, was arrested while walking from a nearby subway station to the demonstration, according to Associated Press journalists at the scene.
Navalny and his Foundation for Fighting Corruption had called for the protests, which attracted crowds of hundreds or thousands in most sizeable Russian cities, from the Far East port of Vladivostok to the European heartland. The protests were the largest coordinated outpourings of dissatisfaction in Russia since the massive 2011-12 demonstrations that followed a fraud-tainted parliamentary election.
Russia is dealing with some civil-unrest today.
I am baffled and impressed that some progressive Russians have adopted the "Putin can't murder us ALL" strategy.
Well, if you start murdering too many people, it can slide from "oppression" to "civil war" pretty fluidly.
If the Russian government ordered the killing of a US citizen on US soil, especially an ex-command officer and member of the US government, and got found out, then I dunno what would happen but I guarantee that it would involve the US flipping the fuck out and Moscow doesn't want that.
There is absolutely no way Moscow would go that far. If they did then they're a lot crazier than we've been giving them credit for. That's the type of thing that results in nukes being launched.
Also figured Nunes was compromised in some way by this. No reason for him to do what he's been doing unless he's starting to get scared.
0
UnluckyThat's not meant to happenRegistered Userregular
Well, if you start murdering too many people, it can slide from "oppression" to "civil war" pretty fluidly.
If ever there were a country I'd put money on uprising, given their history, it'd be Russia. Personally I think this is some of the most inspiring news I've heard for the future of the country in a long while.
Fantastic
+10
ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
Thousands of people crowded into Moscow's Pushkin Square on Sunday for an unsanctioned protest against the Russian government, part of a wave of demonstrations taking place throughout the country.
Alexei Navalny, the anti-corruption campaigner who is leading the opposition to President Vladimir Putin, was arrested while walking from a nearby subway station to the demonstration, according to Associated Press journalists at the scene.
Navalny and his Foundation for Fighting Corruption had called for the protests, which attracted crowds of hundreds or thousands in most sizeable Russian cities, from the Far East port of Vladivostok to the European heartland. The protests were the largest coordinated outpourings of dissatisfaction in Russia since the massive 2011-12 demonstrations that followed a fraud-tainted parliamentary election.
Russia is dealing with some civil-unrest today.
I am baffled and impressed that some progressive Russians have adopted the "Putin can't murder us ALL" strategy.
Well, if you start murdering too many people, it can slide from "oppression" to "civil war" pretty fluidly.
Something the Russian state is keenly aware of since it happened to their buddy Bashar al Assad
Those people have a courage I don't think I'd be able to muster. Protest is tough at the best of times, but in Russia? That's some steel.
It's the upside to a culture that has embraced machismo so much that "don't be a pussy" is a local saying and walking along narrow beams at deadly heights is a common hobby.
Those people have a courage I don't think I'd be able to muster. Protest is tough at the best of times, but in Russia? That's some steel.
It's the upside to a culture that has embraced machismo so much that "don't be a pussy" is a local saying and walking along narrow beams at deadly heights is a common hobby.
I kinda have to disagree with the notion of masculinity and bravery being inherently correlated or tied or whatever but that's like a whole nother thing
I read an incredible series of articles about it where it's, like, if you are serious about it you leave your family and never contact them so they won't be picked up by the authorities, you don't have kids so they can't be threatened etc
Those people have a courage I don't think I'd be able to muster. Protest is tough at the best of times, but in Russia? That's some steel.
It's the upside to a culture that has embraced machismo so much that "don't be a pussy" is a local saying and walking along narrow beams at deadly heights is a common hobby.
I kinda have to disagree with the notion of masculinity and bravery being inherently correlated or tied or whatever but that's like a whole nother thing
I never said it was a positive trait. Just that it happens to be backlashing on those in power.
Thousands of people crowded into Moscow's Pushkin Square on Sunday for an unsanctioned protest against the Russian government, part of a wave of demonstrations taking place throughout the country.
Alexei Navalny, the anti-corruption campaigner who is leading the opposition to President Vladimir Putin, was arrested while walking from a nearby subway station to the demonstration, according to Associated Press journalists at the scene.
Navalny and his Foundation for Fighting Corruption had called for the protests, which attracted crowds of hundreds or thousands in most sizeable Russian cities, from the Far East port of Vladivostok to the European heartland. The protests were the largest coordinated outpourings of dissatisfaction in Russia since the massive 2011-12 demonstrations that followed a fraud-tainted parliamentary election.
Russia is dealing with some civil-unrest today.
Alexei Navalny is an interesting guy. When he first started getting involved in politics and anti corruption work he was charged with embezzling ~$500,000 of timber from a state operated lumber company. IIRC he was convicted, but it was vacated after a huge protest formed outside of the court house. Then both he and his brother were charged and convicted for scamming customers while running an import business that he helped his brother set up, allegedly stealing millions of rubles from customers through fraudulent customs fees and taxes. His brother was put in for real Russian prison (as a hostage essentially) and he was sentenced to house arrest. However in Russian criminal law one cannot be sentenced to house arrest as punishment for a crime, Navalny knew this, and so he just cut off his monitoring anklet and went about his normal business with the police following behind him begging him to go home. He also planned to run in the presidential election next year, was projected to barely break 10% of the vote (so not a real threat to Putin) and was then convicted (again, same charges that were previously vacated) of defrauding a state owned company. This was pretty obviously done to prevent his candidacy, and allegedly before the actual conviction his campaign was already under attack indirectly.
If the Russian government ordered the killing of a US citizen on US soil, especially an ex-command officer and member of the US government, and got found out, then I dunno what would happen but I guarantee that it would involve the US flipping the fuck out and Moscow doesn't want that.
There is absolutely no way Moscow would go that far. If they did then they're a lot crazier than we've been giving them credit for. That's the type of thing that results in nukes being launched.
Also figured Nunes was compromised in some way by this. No reason for him to do what he's been doing unless he's starting to get scared.
The thing is; how much interference could Trump run in this situation?
Russia generally kills people as a public scare-tactic. It's always "oops, what an accident, we certainly didn't murder him like we're going to murder you, wink wink".
"Oh, he commited suicide..in the back seat of his car..in an alley way, by shooting himself several times in the chest and head.. with a handgun that doesn't match the caliber of rounds found inside him."
another thread from abramson. This time suggesting that the Steele Dossier has been mostly verified, and Dems are trying to get him to testify. The primary source of the dossier was murdered 12 days after it leaked.
edit: So are we saying abramson is not a credible journalist? I'll stop linking if so.
belligerent on
0
WACriminalDying Is Easy, Young ManLiving Is HarderRegistered Userregular
another thread from abramson. This time suggesting that the Steele Dossier has been mostly verified, and Dems are trying to get him to testify. The primary source of the dossier was murdered 12 days after it leaked.
edit: So are we saying abramson is not a credible journalist? I'll stop linking if so.
Whether he's credible or not, he seems to be citing his sources pretty hard there.
I can't tell if Seth Abramson is going to be correct or has gone completely nuts.
I feel like that's a function of the situation's crazy-factor. Anybody who accurately predicts the end of all this is probably going to sound at least a little crazy.
I can't tell if Seth Abramson is going to be correct or has gone completely nuts.
I feel like that's a function of the situation's crazy-factor. Anybody who accurately predicts the end of all this is probably going to sound at least a little crazy.
As I've said a couple of times, if I went back to 1987 and tried to tell this story...
That said, I'm withholding judgment (and hope) until there's more.
Russia generally kills people as a public scare-tactic. It's always "oops, what an accident, we certainly didn't murder him like we're going to murder you, wink wink".
"Oh, he commited suicide..in the back seat of his car..in an alley way, by shooting himself several times in the chest and head.. with a handgun that doesn't match the caliber of rounds found inside him."
whats interesting about the way Putin's regime murders its citizens is that it doesnt really. There is often no direct link to Putin, and most experts will tell you he never actually orders the hits as youd imagine a mafia boss would. Instead he has simply created a climate in which those in power in a certain area or region of politics will be rewarded if someone known to be problematic dies in their jurisdiction so to speak. So technically Putin doesnt "order" these deaths, because he doesnt have to, he has created a system wherein people just know what to do and take it upon themselves. The whole system Putin benefits from, (that he has largely refined and perfected), works so that everyone is pretty much as dirty as he is, so theres always someone willing to kill a journalist not because Putin ordered it, but because theyre a stepping stone in the journalists investigation of the hierarchy of corruption (and so more likely to be scapegoated). It makes things much more banal and broad in terms of the evil youre fighting.
This means that they dont really have to be clandestine, so you get rather lazy cover ups if any cover up at all, because really, theres no legal way to prosecute Putin or any higher up, because they are genuinely not directly linked. Its very smart and yet also leads to eyerollingly obvious cover ups like "died naturally of blunt force trauma in his office" situations with coroner reports.
The idea that a poetry critic whose previous attempts at punditry amounted to "Bernie Sanders is totally winning the primary with my secret math" which he maintained well through June has this story before every national security and justice reporter on two continents is ludicrous and a testament to how stupid and desperate the internet can get.
The man is an idiot.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
another thread from abramson. This time suggesting that the Steele Dossier has been mostly verified, and Dems are trying to get him to testify. The primary source of the dossier was murdered 12 days after it leaked.
edit: So are we saying abramson is not a credible journalist? I'll stop linking if so.
another thread from abramson. This time suggesting that the Steele Dossier has been mostly verified, and Dems are trying to get him to testify. The primary source of the dossier was murdered 12 days after it leaked.
edit: So are we saying abramson is not a credible journalist? I'll stop linking if so.
Wait what?
Oleg Erovinkin was a Russian intelligence officer who likely had personal knowledge of whether the financial allegations in the dossier were true
He was found dead, apparently murdered, in the back of his car
kedinik on
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee was on his way to an event in Washington late Tuesday when the evening’s plans abruptly changed. After taking a brief phone call, Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) swapped cars and slipped away from his staff, congressional officials said. He appears to have used that unaccounted-for stretch of time to review classified intelligence files brought to his attention by sources he has said he will not name.
Schiff also implied he suspects a White House hand in what he called Nunes’s “dead-of-night excursion” to view classified documents. Several congressional officials said they were told about the phone call and swapped cars by members of Nunes’s staff.
Jack Langer, a spokesman for Nunes, disputed the depiction. “That account is inaccurate,” Langer said. He declined to elaborate.
To review classified files without breaking the law, Nunes would have needed to do so at a secure facility. Congressional officials said that the director of National Intelligence, the FBI and National Security Agency had all indicated that they got no late-night visit from Nunes, a trip that probably would have been entered in security logs.
Nunes has repeatedly refused to say where he went or whether the documents were provided by the White House, including when confronted by committee members during a closed-door meeting on Thursday, officials said.
So a clandestine meeting to get 'classified information' from unnamed sources....but not actually viewed in the secure facility that he's supposed to use for that purpose? There sure is a lot of smoke here.
They might actually be learning about that whole "self-incriminating" thing:
White House spokesman Sean Spicer also refused to rule out a White House role in providing access to the files. “I don’t know where he got the documents from, so I can’t say anything more than ‘I don’t know,’ ” Spicer said during Friday’s White House briefing.
The idea that a poetry critic whose previous attempts at punditry amounted to "Bernie Sanders is totally winning the primary with my secret math" which he maintained well through June has this story before every national security and justice reporter on two continents is ludicrous and a testament to how stupid and desperate the internet can get.
"Trump unable to prove a negative" is not an argument any self respecting journalist would be making, whether the actual allegations are true or not.
In general right now I think certain members of the left are veering way too far towards conspiracy theory crafting, creating vast world-sweeping plots that include every possible theory and claim against Trump and would require incredible competence on the part of everyone involved.
This is a problem, because it undercuts the much more supportable and reasonable case against Trump, which is pretty robust all by itself.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
I mean, the whole Koch et al funding the tea party and other vast right wing conspiracies already primed the pump. It's already hard to discuss this kind of thing without it sounding like you're ranting about the illuminati.
There were articles just the other week about people refusing to belive provisions of trumpcare because they were just too cartoonishly evil
Posts
Like I'm gonna go ahead and say it's highly unlikely "Flynn is talking to the FBI" is something the average person is hearing right now
Doubt someone is gonna get murdered because of a Twitter rumor
I'm sorry, but as untouchable as Putin likely is now in Russia, I don't think he would go so far as to try and assassinate an American citizen, especially one who was recently very high in the government.
Ruin them, blackmail them, make their life hell? Sure. But not murder.
Yeah, the way it is phrased...
"From my sources and what has been openly reported, it increasingly looks like #Flynn may have a deal with the FBI."
The key parts there are "what has been openly reported", "increasingly looks like," and "May have."
That's cable news-ese for "I don't know shit, but me and my friends are gossiping and we think it could be true."
She's careful to not actually make a claim of fact, but rather a claim about the visuals, of interpretation. It looks like Flynn struck a deal is not reporting that "Flynn struck a deal, sources say."
Yeah, it is one thing to kill Russians, it is another to kill American generals, even disgraced ones, on American soil. That is the kind of thing that leads somewhere Putin probably does not and should not want to go.
I'm not seeing it from other sources, yet, though. This could be part of what has him spooked enough to start cancelling hearings.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
In 2013 he was working to promote American investment in Russia, specifically working with a bunch of city officials from Moscow. There's been talk that he might even have been Source E, the one that made the introductions, in the Steele dossier. He also "grew up in Russia" according to the Times and is a friend of the families through Jr.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Russia is dealing with some civil-unrest today.
I am baffled and impressed that some progressive Russians have adopted the "Putin can't murder us ALL" strategy.
Well, if you start murdering too many people, it can slide from "oppression" to "civil war" pretty fluidly.
There is absolutely no way Moscow would go that far. If they did then they're a lot crazier than we've been giving them credit for. That's the type of thing that results in nukes being launched.
Also figured Nunes was compromised in some way by this. No reason for him to do what he's been doing unless he's starting to get scared.
Something the Russian state is keenly aware of since it happened to their buddy Bashar al Assad
Keep in mind the protests against his re-election is what killed US-Russia cooperation.
He will view these protests as CIA fomented active operations as retaliation for his election meddling
pretty jarring shot from the protests:
It's the upside to a culture that has embraced machismo so much that "don't be a pussy" is a local saying and walking along narrow beams at deadly heights is a common hobby.
I kinda have to disagree with the notion of masculinity and bravery being inherently correlated or tied or whatever but that's like a whole nother thing
I read an incredible series of articles about it where it's, like, if you are serious about it you leave your family and never contact them so they won't be picked up by the authorities, you don't have kids so they can't be threatened etc
I never said it was a positive trait. Just that it happens to be backlashing on those in power.
Alexei Navalny is an interesting guy. When he first started getting involved in politics and anti corruption work he was charged with embezzling ~$500,000 of timber from a state operated lumber company. IIRC he was convicted, but it was vacated after a huge protest formed outside of the court house. Then both he and his brother were charged and convicted for scamming customers while running an import business that he helped his brother set up, allegedly stealing millions of rubles from customers through fraudulent customs fees and taxes. His brother was put in for real Russian prison (as a hostage essentially) and he was sentenced to house arrest. However in Russian criminal law one cannot be sentenced to house arrest as punishment for a crime, Navalny knew this, and so he just cut off his monitoring anklet and went about his normal business with the police following behind him begging him to go home. He also planned to run in the presidential election next year, was projected to barely break 10% of the vote (so not a real threat to Putin) and was then convicted (again, same charges that were previously vacated) of defrauding a state owned company. This was pretty obviously done to prevent his candidacy, and allegedly before the actual conviction his campaign was already under attack indirectly.
The thing is; how much interference could Trump run in this situation?
They will probably condemn the corrupt protesters controlled by Obama, Soros and Hillary instead
About the only people Trump hasn't criticised in the last two years is Russia and Putin.,
"Oh, he commited suicide..in the back seat of his car..in an alley way, by shooting himself several times in the chest and head.. with a handgun that doesn't match the caliber of rounds found inside him."
another thread from abramson. This time suggesting that the Steele Dossier has been mostly verified, and Dems are trying to get him to testify. The primary source of the dossier was murdered 12 days after it leaked.
edit: So are we saying abramson is not a credible journalist? I'll stop linking if so.
Whether he's credible or not, he seems to be citing his sources pretty hard there.
I feel like that's a function of the situation's crazy-factor. Anybody who accurately predicts the end of all this is probably going to sound at least a little crazy.
As I've said a couple of times, if I went back to 1987 and tried to tell this story...
That said, I'm withholding judgment (and hope) until there's more.
whats interesting about the way Putin's regime murders its citizens is that it doesnt really. There is often no direct link to Putin, and most experts will tell you he never actually orders the hits as youd imagine a mafia boss would. Instead he has simply created a climate in which those in power in a certain area or region of politics will be rewarded if someone known to be problematic dies in their jurisdiction so to speak. So technically Putin doesnt "order" these deaths, because he doesnt have to, he has created a system wherein people just know what to do and take it upon themselves. The whole system Putin benefits from, (that he has largely refined and perfected), works so that everyone is pretty much as dirty as he is, so theres always someone willing to kill a journalist not because Putin ordered it, but because theyre a stepping stone in the journalists investigation of the hierarchy of corruption (and so more likely to be scapegoated). It makes things much more banal and broad in terms of the evil youre fighting.
This means that they dont really have to be clandestine, so you get rather lazy cover ups if any cover up at all, because really, theres no legal way to prosecute Putin or any higher up, because they are genuinely not directly linked. Its very smart and yet also leads to eyerollingly obvious cover ups like "died naturally of blunt force trauma in his office" situations with coroner reports.
The man is an idiot.
Wait what?
Steam: adamjnet
Oleg Erovinkin was a Russian intelligence officer who likely had personal knowledge of whether the financial allegations in the dossier were true
He was found dead, apparently murdered, in the back of his car
They might actually be learning about that whole "self-incriminating" thing:
I mean, just look at this sort of argument:
"Trump unable to prove a negative" is not an argument any self respecting journalist would be making, whether the actual allegations are true or not.
In general right now I think certain members of the left are veering way too far towards conspiracy theory crafting, creating vast world-sweeping plots that include every possible theory and claim against Trump and would require incredible competence on the part of everyone involved.
This is a problem, because it undercuts the much more supportable and reasonable case against Trump, which is pretty robust all by itself.
There were articles just the other week about people refusing to belive provisions of trumpcare because they were just too cartoonishly evil