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Marvel Stuff! Thor is covered in brains!

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  • KeithKeith Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    Was it really as recent as Civil War 2 when people turned against the comics line, or was this gaining ground for a while?

    It's because DC has been knocking it out of the park since Rebirth and only one of them can be good at a time

    SpoitMunkus Beaver
  • CenoCeno wild zontars Registered User regular
    edited February 16
    Ceno wrote: »
    Sincere question here please god don't misinterpret.

    Do people consider it bad to want new characters to have new identities? To have their own name/powerset/costume/whatever that isn't intrinsically tied to an existing one? To be honest, I've never looked at any of Marvel's superheroes as having a "mantle" that is passed from one to another. I've always just viewed it as Captain America = Steve Rogers, Peter Parker = Spider-Man, etc.

    When new characters have new identities, they don't sell enough books to keep the characters around. See Blank's post above--people are more inclined to buy a book with Captain America on it, regardless of who that Captain America is, than they are anything involving Sam Wilson by another name. And Steve and Pete both have enough existing name recognition to get attention outside of their titles.

    The legacy of the names are the only reason so many of these newer characters are succeeding at all.

    So - just because I'm really trying to see both sides of this from a fair perspective - that strikes me more as a failure of both the publisher (for not making the necessary monetary investment to really push new characters and new ideas) and the consumer (for failing to support new endeavors financially) than it strikes me as something more racially motivated.

    I completely agree that Sam Wilson as Cap is an amazing opportunity to explore all kinds of issues that Steve wouldn't deal with and I've thought all that stuff has been great so far, and I don't have a solution for any of this, I'm just really noodling over the different perspectives. Because the artistic part of me very honestly would much rather see these new characters grow into new heroes with their own identities. It seems cynical to just cave into the idea that slapping the name "Spider-Man" onto someone else is the only viable way to get these characters into the mainstream.

    I don't know. There have been new characters and franchises that have blown up in the mainstream without having to rely on legacy (like Katniss from Hunger games). I'm not saying it's easy.

    But then, the Marvel comic stuff is still run by Perlmutter, right? So, yeah, he's a shitshow of a human being and could very well be dictating all this stuff. I have no idea. I'm just trying to parse it out and also trying to assume that not all people who just want the old traditional characters in their traditional roles are racist dirtbags.

    Edit: I see Blank talked about some this in his post.

    Second edit: It should also be noted I haven't read any comics since Secret War and really don't read many comics at all, so this thought process is mostly rooted in kind of general terms and not based on anything specific or recent.

    Edit 3: rephrasing

    Ceno on
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  • GustavGustav Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Gustav wrote: »
    Also Perlmutter donating heavily to Trump soured a good lot of folks too.
    Oh also worth noting

    At the ComicsPro event they assured retailers that while Secret Empire is political it will be "bipartisan"

    Hey guys when people are not into your Evil Hydra Runs America event because it seems too much like the current administration maybe you shouldn't be trying to appease fans of it

    gross.

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  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    Is Perlmutter really that hands on?

    WHO'S NEXT
  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    On the other hand, they've been giving Canadian Criminal Chip Zdarsky a lot more work, so you take the good and the bad

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  • KeithKeith Registered User regular
    It still astounds me how great DC has been with Rebirth. There are still some bad comics but they put out so many books I look forward to every week now, when there were only a handful a year ago

    Devlin_DragonusFencingsax
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    On the other hand, they've been giving Canadian Criminal Chip Zdarsky a lot more work, so you take the good and the bad

    Wait what

    WHO'S NEXT
  • BlankzillaBlankzilla KOOKABUNGA LIVES Registered User regular
    I don't think anyone has accused Marvel of a "concerted racist agenda"

    Like, I think that if the MMM stuff is true is is a huge bummer but not, like, intentionally racist

    They are playing it safe with their audience which means returning to their old white heroes at the expense of their new, primarily minority, heroes. It makes business sense and mimics the success of Rebirth but it is super disappointing from a creative perspective.

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  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    Just give me good stories please

    WHO'S NEXT
  • Crippl3Crippl3 stealing all of my content from redditRegistered User regular
    I can't believe Vince is burying all this new legacy hero talent. I wonder if they'll send Miles Morales back to NXT.

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  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    Speaking of WWE! The second issue of their comic continues to be really good.

    WHO'S NEXT
  • GustavGustav Registered User regular
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Is Perlmutter really that hands on?

    There are stories about him being angry about folks throwing pencils because he didn't feel like they had been adequately used up.

    To say nothing of his stance on women led superhero films. Which is why Feige no longer answering to him is somewhat celebrated.

    Basically he seems involved enough to not entirely discount the possibility.

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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited February 16
    The real "problem" is that Marvel are just not going to shelve their marquee characters; they're never not going to make comics where Peter Parker is Spider-Man, because he's just too much of a popular, cash cow property. Ditto Rogers, Stark, etc. That's going to make any legacy character feel awkward, because the original will always be looking over their shoulder (metaphorically if not literally.) This is especially true when the old and new characters have basically the same remit in story terms, which is the problem Miles and Sam run into but Kamala substantially avoids.

    In her case things worked better because Mar-Vel had been dead for a while and nobody was really clamoring to bring him back, which freed Danvers up to abandon her old title permanently (also she wasn't so ensconced in the A list at that point that it was even a huge deal.)

    ed: I do think it might have worked better had Marvel done more of a 'Spider-Man Incorporated' type of thing with Peter, rather than just call him a CEO but have him continue to do the same 'time management fuckup' routine he's been doing forever

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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  • MaximumMaximum Registered User regular
    I would be shocked if Perlmutter had even the slightest idea of what the comics division was doing creatively. Looking at financials is probably as involved as he gets.

    That's not to say that people shouldn't support Marvel because of his involvement if they don't want to.

  • CenoCeno wild zontars Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    I don't think anyone has accused Marvel of a "concerted racist agenda"

    Like, I think that if the MMM stuff is true is is a huge bummer but not, like, intentionally racist

    They are playing it safe with their audience which means returning to their old white heroes at the expense of their new, primarily minority, heroes. It makes business sense and mimics the success of Rebirth but it is super disappointing from a creative perspective.

    And I certainly didn't mean to sound accusatory there, I'll try to think of a way to rephrase that.

    I will certainly agree that Marvel's risk-averse nature is not their best feature, but that could probably be said for all big successful companies.

    PSN: Genesius_Prime
  • masterofmetroidmasterofmetroid Have you ever looked at a world and seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered User regular
    Most racist things in entertainment happen under the guise of being risk averse business practices

    The safest comedies just happen to have a tendency to feature racial stereotypes for instance

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  • GustavGustav Registered User regular
    edited February 16
    I would rather doubt he directs anything on individual books. But it wouldn't shock me at all if line wide mandates had some origin in his offices. Not particularly story based ones and what not.

    Gustav on
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  • RainfallRainfall If you do not repay me, I will RECLAIM the ball.Registered User regular
    edited February 16
    Marvel won't be good again until they bring back their lesbian space fantasy epic and similarly inventive series.

    World of Wakanda and Ultimates2 are good but they can/should do more.

    Rainfall on
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  • ElderlycrawfishElderlycrawfish Registered User regular
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Mr. G wrote: »
    On the other hand, they've been giving Canadian Criminal Chip Zdarsky a lot more work, so you take the good and the bad

    Wait what

    Zdawg's getting a Spidey book in addition to his current Bar-Lord title.

    He also did a Dr. Strange MU one-shot this week.

    PSN/Steam - Elderlycrawfish
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Mr. G wrote: »
    On the other hand, they've been giving Canadian Criminal Chip Zdarsky a lot more work, so you take the good and the bad

    Wait what

    Zdawg's getting a Spidey book in addition to his current Bar-Lord title.

    He also did a Dr. Strange MU one-shot this week.

    The Canadian Criminal part

    WHO'S NEXT
  • ElderlycrawfishElderlycrawfish Registered User regular
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Mr. G wrote: »
    On the other hand, they've been giving Canadian Criminal Chip Zdarsky a lot more work, so you take the good and the bad

    Wait what

    Zdawg's getting a Spidey book in addition to his current Bar-Lord title.

    He also did a Dr. Strange MU one-shot this week.

    The Canadian Criminal part

    Look I'm pretty sure wearing a full Garfield costume in public is a felony somewhere.

    PSN/Steam - Elderlycrawfish
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  • Bloods EndBloods End Registered User regular
    If you had told me that there would be a new Ben reilly comic and I could not being myself to care about it a year ago I would have called you a damn liar.
    Thanks Donald

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Here's a sobering thought; does Marvel even need people to buy comics anymore?
    Marvel Comics, the company, does, yes.

    Marvel Entertainment, maybe not.

    But that's also kind of a pointless question since no one needs to buy or make comics

    I meant needs to in a business sense.

    Sure. Marvel comics might just be a nice place for them to experiment with the characters, but they need people to buy them in order to market test the ideas first.

  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Mr. G wrote: »
    On the other hand, they've been giving Canadian Criminal Chip Zdarsky a lot more work, so you take the good and the bad

    Wait what

    Zdawg's getting a Spidey book in addition to his current Bar-Lord title.

    He also did a Dr. Strange MU one-shot this week.

    The Canadian Criminal part

    Guessing ( hoping) it's just a reference to Sex Criminals?

    Steam! Battlenet:Wisemantobes#1508
    vagrant_windsSpoit
  • TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    The real "problem" is that Marvel are just not going to shelve their marquee characters; they're never not going to make comics where Peter Parker is Spider-Man, because he's just too much of a popular, cash cow property. Ditto Rogers, Stark, etc. That's always going to make any legacy character feel awkward, because the original will always be looking over their shoulder (metaphorically if not literally.) This is especially true when the old and new characters have basically the same remit in story terms, which is the problem Miles and Sam run into but Kamala substantially avoids.

    In her case things worked better because Mar-Vel had been dead for a while and nobody was really clamoring to bring him back, which freed Danvers up to abandon her old title permanently (also she wasn't so ensconced in the A list at that point that it was even a huge deal.)

    ed: I do think it might have worked better had Marvel done more of a 'Spider-Man Incorporated' type of thing with Peter, rather than just call him a CEO but have him continue to do the same 'time management fuckup' routine he's been doing forever

    The major problem is, " HEY GUYS, HERE ARE ALL THE WHITE MALE SUPERHEROES THAT ACTUALLY NEVER REALLY LEFT IN THE FIRST PLACE! HORRAY!"

    Their disgusting, explotative, and blatently false lip service when they first launched Marvel Now, coupled with them, you know, actually LYING, then "bringing back the status quo".

    Like fuck ALL that noise.

    Fencingsax
  • RingoRingo Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Gustav wrote: »
    Also Perlmutter donating heavily to Trump soured a good lot of folks too.
    Oh also worth noting

    At the ComicsPro event they assured retailers that while Secret Empire is political it will be "bipartisan"

    Hey guys when people are not into your Evil Hydra Runs America event because it seems too much like the current administration maybe you shouldn't be trying to appease fans of it

    Man, okay I had limited myself to just buying non-headliner Marvel books (just picked up the first trade of Patsy Walker!) but no, fuck you Marvel. You don't get to be "bipartisan" when one side as literally depicted in your books is Nazis. Just fuck everything

    Make Mine Anything But Marvel, I guess

    (I just bought Monstress too. My roommate spent all morning reading it cover to cover and said he loved it)

    ceres wrote: »
    I'm just going to go ahead and lock this thread before I feel any worse about humanity.
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  • BlankzillaBlankzilla KOOKABUNGA LIVES Registered User regular
    To be fair they aren't saying they are being bipartisan to Hydra

    Just to Dems and Repubs

    The fact that people find the current Hydra and current Republicans worryingly similar is, however, lost on them

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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    I dunno, I guess that's a softer blow to absorb if you (like me) never took all that 'all-new all-different' type of marketing particularly seriously; which is not to say I'm some smarter, more cynical reader or whatever, just that I read comics and they always do a new thing then revert to status quo after a bit.

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    accept your death, and become dangerous
  • masterofmetroidmasterofmetroid Have you ever looked at a world and seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered User regular
    It is perhaps a side effect of y'know, the whooooooole subtext of Winter Soldier, the popular movie most people have seen

  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    edited February 16
    I dunno, I guess that's a softer blow to absorb if you (like me) never took all that 'all-new all-different' type of marketing particularly seriously; which is not to say I'm some smarter, more cynical reader or whatever, just that I read comics and they always do a new thing then revert to status quo after a bit.

    It's not a blow in that we were invested in it being true. More that a lot of people were just done with that status quo. Changing it, brought in people who weren't interested. Those people aren't likely to stick around if it goes back.

    OmnipotentBagel on
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  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    Does Marvel give out the number of Unlimited subscribers?

    WHO'S NEXT
  • RingoRingo Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    To be fair they aren't saying they are being bipartisan to Hydra

    Just to Dems and Repubs

    The fact that people find the current Hydra and current Republicans worryingly similar is, however, lost on them

    Yeah, I can't picture being bipartisan to the current Republican platform in a way that doesn't give cover to Hydra in the comics. Just because I can't picture it doesn't mean it can't happen, but when you're talking about things like this and my default assumption is you're going to be saying "not all nazis are bad" then I'm not going to be spending money on your product

    Which is frustrating, but at least I can look forward to getting trades of DC's Hanna Barbera line

    ceres wrote: »
    I'm just going to go ahead and lock this thread before I feel any worse about humanity.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG now featured at the Exigency Forum
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    Ringo wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    To be fair they aren't saying they are being bipartisan to Hydra

    Just to Dems and Repubs

    The fact that people find the current Hydra and current Republicans worryingly similar is, however, lost on them

    Yeah, I can't picture being bipartisan to the current Republican platform in a way that doesn't give cover to Hydra in the comics. Just because I can't picture it doesn't mean it can't happen, but when you're talking about things like this and my default assumption is you're going to be saying "not all nazis are bad" then I'm not going to be spending money on your product

    Which is frustrating, but at least I can look forward to getting trades of DC's Hanna Barbera line

    I really, really don't think Marvel is going to portray Hydra as anything close to good. They'll portray Steve as thinking he's in the right but that's not the same as treating them like the good guys.

    WHO'S NEXT
  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    I honestly think being "bipartisan" just means they won't be explicitly saying that the Republicans are in league with Hydra.

    akajaybay
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    and/or they'll hold back on some of their more aggressive allusions to Trump, which tbh I'm fine with because while amusing they kinda detract from the story

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  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    Apparently there's some semi-credible rumors about Marvel working on a Namor project

    http://screenrant.com/marvel-narmor-sub-mariner-movie-inhumans/

  • BlankzillaBlankzilla KOOKABUNGA LIVES Registered User regular
    edited February 17
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    Sideshow did a custom Daredevil design for a figure

    Blankzilla on
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  • Crippl3Crippl3 stealing all of my content from redditRegistered User regular
    Polygon does a neat comics show on their YouTube called Issue At Hand. Today's episode is about buying comics, and I thought it was really interesting as someone who has never done more than just bought single issues/TPBs at a comic shop while I was there for Magic


    I had NO IDEA that the whole distribution model was so fucked. Like, I've looked at the Previews magazine/catalog/300-pound monstrosity while I was in the store before but I didn't know that was the ONLY thing that mattered. That's insane!
    It explains why the guys who ran the shop looked at me funny sometimes when I asked if they got certain books in stock, I never knew I had to pre-order stuff.

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  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    I've been buying comics for a few years now and I have never once preordered a comic

    I just walk into the shop and grab them

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  • KeithKeith Registered User regular
    Diamond and The Direct Market is literally the worst

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