Jena, LA in the news Today. Something about 3 black kids wanting to sit under a certain shady tree at a predominantly white grade school, and there being 3 nooses hanging from the trees come morning.
Today, this was reported. After checking my watch and seeing that this was two-fucking-thousand-seven, I get depressed.
I remember being at a mall in Alexandria, LA and hearing a man (and older one, to be fair) belt out to his buddy that Kerry was a "secret Jew" and that "you may as well elect a ni**er!!" (EDIT: This was, of course, 2004)
Yeah, not even in his indoor voice. And nobody seemed to bat an eyelash.
I mean yeah, the guy was old and from a different era and blah blah blah. But up here even the old people know that that shit isn't socially acceptable...and we've got a ton of racists up here, and no black people.
I remember being at a mall in Alexandria, LA and hearing a man (and older one, to be fair) belt out to his buddy that Kerry was a "secret Jew" and that "you may as well elect a ni**er!!" (EDIT: This was, of course, 2004)
Yeah, not even in his indoor voice. And nobody seemed to bat an eyelash.
I am from New Orleans, and moved away when I was about 24. After the storm, a lot of people left. A bunch of my family and friends stayed. They're all happy and excited. New Orleans can finally be great, they told me, now that all the n1gg3as were gone ("Houston's problem now!").
Now, I live in Austin, and while this is an awesome town, we're surrounded by the rest of Texas, which always smells faintly of chewing tobacco and taxidermy.
It's not all-encompassing, and its not unique. It isn't more retarded than some other cultures' ways of being retarded. But to say that the kind of culture mentioned in the OP does not exist, even today, is something I just can't buy. I've seen it in action, and heard the most vile stereotyping come, straight-faced, out of the mouths of my very own cousins during the first two thirds of my life.
I remember being at a mall in Alexandria, LA and hearing a man (and older one, to be fair) belt out to his buddy that Kerry was a "secret Jew" and that "you may as well elect a ni**er!!" (EDIT: This was, of course, 2004)
Yeah, not even in his indoor voice. And nobody seemed to bat an eyelash.
I am from New Orleans, and moved away when I was about 24. After the storm, a lot of people left. A bunch of my family and friends stayed. They're all happy and excited. New Orleans can finally be great, they told me, now that all the n1gg3as were gone ("Houston's problem now!").
Now, I live in Austin, and while this is an awesome town, we're surrounded by the rest of Texas, which always smells faintly of chewing tobacco and taxidermy.
It's not all-encompassing, and its not unique. It isn't more retarded than some other cultures' ways of being retarded. But to say that the kind of culture mentioned in the OP does not exist, even today, is something I just can't buy. I've seen it in action, and heard the most vile stereotyping come, straight-faced, out of the mouths of my very own cousins during the first two thirds of my life.
I don't think anyone is arguing it doesn't exist, but at the ignorance expressed in some of the statements. The opening post was the equivalent of saying only two groups of people exist and that they're confined only to the South. It overgeneralizes an entire region and fails to address the greater problems, such as racism, that aren't confined only to the South (as addressed in this very thread).
It's really hard to address the South as region, because historically and culturally it's really two distinct sections (the upper south and lower south/deep south) with occasional outliers included (such as Texas). Maryland is even considered a southern state depending on the definition. It's important to address which area you're addressing, because a problem that affects one, may not have a major influence on another even if the entire region encompasses a similar culture.
We have retarded bible thumping fuckwads up here in Washington state, too. And we're about as "North" as you can get. These people aren't exclusive to the South, contrary to popular stereotypes.
The parts of Washington state that are outside urbanized areas are pretty much Kentucky.
Fix'd that for you. Our metropolitan centers are our bastions of liberalism around here. Everywhere else is conservo-ville.
EDIT: And don't even get me started on Eastern Washington (Spokanistan in particular).
Atlanta's a pretty nice city in itself as well. I don't even consider it a part of the rest of Georgia.
Fuck, you know, maybe it's just the rural mentality. I am pretty sure, however, that there is more "rural" to the south than there is to the north eastern area of the country.
Note: Tennessee does tend to rock, especially Nashville. I don't know why, but there seems to be an incredibly high concentration of Puerto Ricans in and around Nashville and some of the other bigger cities. Which means it rocks.
Oh, so when you say Georgia sucks you mean that the parts of Georgia you don't like suck. Got it.
I love snarky pricks.
Here's the thing, outside the perimeter - which is sort of the way you delineate city from suburbs around the city - you've got a bunch of white flight people with plenty of money that, in many ways, act like the people I described with hatred. Inside the perimeter is like a different world. It's a fairly large city, massed with college kids from Emory and GA Tech, larger concentrations of minorities and working poor, etc.
It's all about what I said before: white flight. The money moved out, the poverty stuck around. However, another community started to move in in the late 80's and early 90's. People with money that wanted to take advantage of low land values and cheap houses renovated them and created a diverse, cultural city. Outside the city, it's much like it was 40 years ago. Inside, it's very, very different.
I remember being at a mall in Alexandria, LA and hearing a man (and older one, to be fair) belt out to his buddy that Kerry was a "secret Jew" and that "you may as well elect a ni**er!!" (EDIT: This was, of course, 2004)
Yeah, not even in his indoor voice. And nobody seemed to bat an eyelash.
I am from New Orleans, and moved away when I was about 24. After the storm, a lot of people left. A bunch of my family and friends stayed. They're all happy and excited. New Orleans can finally be great, they told me, now that all the n1gg3as were gone ("Houston's problem now!").
Now, I live in Austin, and while this is an awesome town, we're surrounded by the rest of Texas, which always smells faintly of chewing tobacco and taxidermy.
It's not all-encompassing, and its not unique. It isn't more retarded than some other cultures' ways of being retarded. But to say that the kind of culture mentioned in the OP does not exist, even today, is something I just can't buy. I've seen it in action, and heard the most vile stereotyping come, straight-faced, out of the mouths of my very own cousins during the first two thirds of my life.
I don't think anyone is arguing it doesn't exist, but at the ignorance expressed in some of the statements. The opening post was the equivalent of saying only two groups of people exist and that they're confined only to the South. It overgeneralizes an entire region and fails to address the greater problems, such as racism, that isn't confined only to the South (as addressed in this very thread).
It's really hard to address the South as region, because historically and culturally it's really two distinct sections (the upper south and lower south/deep south) with occasional outliers included (such as Texas). Maryland is even considered a southern state depending on the definition. It's important to address which area you're addressing, because a problem that affects one, may not have a major influence on another even if the entire region encompasses a similar culture.
I wasn't trying to say that all people from the south come in these two flavors. I don't know how many times I have to say this, but I was talking about people that specifically identify as southern as a part of their personality or culture. It's not about the region to me, it's about the culture.
Think of that movie Black Snake Moan. Remember Christina Ricci's character? Trashy, uneducated, etc. Ignoring the more meta themes of the movie for the moment, the people I'm talking about are like her, except that they take that milieux and run with it. They are completely unabashed about vehemently identifying as things that are negative in nature.
Really, it's like the stereotypical frat boy. They revel in drinking copious amounts of beer and fucking anything that moves. They do exist, and they are a problem. I'm just talking about this specific problem because it seems to me that it's getting pretty widespread. It's a minority, yes, but they're there, and they're a problem.
Look, it's like this. There's everybody else, and then there's this specific group. I made the distinction in the OP because I didn't want it to seem like I was saying all southerners are like this, or that the southern culture exclusively carries these values. Southern culture carries some very good values, but these people are eschewing those in favor of the bad aspects of it.
VishNub: Too stupid to say something constructive?
The absurdity of Wonder_Hippie's specific accusations aside, the consensus then is that the general social-climate in most of the south is for the most part indiscernible from, say, New England or the midwest? So should I then simply say I hate America?
The absurdity of Wonder_Hippie's specific accusations aside, the consensus then is that the general social-climate in most of the south is for the most part indiscernible from, say, New England or the midwest? So should I then simply say I hate America?
See, and I'm not part of that consensus. My limited experience with the South, as well as my less-limited experience with Southerners, says that the general social climate of the South actually is different from the rest of the country. Iowa or Montana can be backward, or even racist, but something about the South just seems different. Maybe it's what has always seemed to me to be a more casual attitude regarding public racism, including acting on that racism. Or maybe the way many people there actually embrace being so utterly backward. I don't know.
I don't know. I've been around a bit, though. I've lived in rural Pennsylvania, rural Kansas, Montana (it only comes in one variety) and travelled in rural California...the South was just different.
The South has more people that embrace those things because it is a part of their traditional culture, and they feel assailed by the other parts of the country, making them hold on all the more tightly. They feel assailed not without reason either. Many people would rather see southern culture just wiped out than try to weed out the bad aspects while keeping the good. Which just makes life harder for people actually willing to go through the work.
The South has more people that embrace those things because it is a part of their traditional culture, and they feel assailed by the other parts of the country, making them hold on all the more tightly. They feel assailed not without reason either. Many people would rather see southern culture just wiped out than try to weed out the bad aspects while keeping the good. Which just makes life harder for people actually willing to go through the work.
Because it's impossible that you have a different idea of which parts constitute "good" and which are "bad".
What exactly is the problem with Larry the Cable Guy that people have? I don't particularly like him or dislike him, but people seem to genuinely dislike him. The whole thing is clearly a persona and he's just playing a caricature of a the typical redneck stereotype. I recall people being irked that he played a character in Cars.
I can understand if people simply don't find him funny (from what I've seen, his act is fairly bland), but is there anything beyond that?
What exactly is the problem with Larry the Cable Guy that people have? I don't particularly like him or dislike him, but people seem to genuinely dislike him. The whole thing is clearly a persona and he's just playing a caricature of a the typical redneck stereotype. I recall people being irked that he played a character in Cars.
I can understand if people simply don't find him funny (from what I've seen, his act is fairly bland), but is there anything beyond that?
Watch some of that terrible show, Blue Collar TV, and you might understand.
Seriously though, he's a part of that glorification of trashy cultures. People that pride themselves on how backwards they are.
I was born here in Atlanta. I went from Kindergarden to 2nd grade in Birmingham, Alabama. I then spent 3rd - 8th grade in Jackson, Mississippi before moving back to Atlanta. I want to clear up some things:
1. Atlanta is not "old south". For those of you living in the rest of the country, Atlanta is NOT a confederate flag-waving racist city. Not in the least. If anything it's one of the most successfull "black cities" in the country. Are there rednecks? Of course, but they're out in the boonies, stay to themselves, and ironically listen to a lot of rap music. I don't even think they know what the confederate flag means. Atlanta is a very modern, trendy, hipster infested place just like Seattle, San Fran, etc. I mean we have a higher per capita gay population than San Francisco. Rednecks generally stay away from that.
2. Alabama sucks ass. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of nice people there. But it still sucks. Some of the land is beautiful, but it still sucks. It's just plain trashy.
3. Mississippi has no fucking clue the South lost. I mean really. They all say the South should have won the war. But they're not racist. They fly confederate flags ALL OVER THE PLACE, but they all have black friends and don't see what the big deal is. Even the black people just put up with it. When asked about slavery, they all say "Well, it would have gone away eventually anyway". Seriously.
But the real point is that most people in the south are friendly. They really are. Even if you're a gay muslim. Just watch Borat. The southern people may not LIKE him, but they definitely tolerate him more than other people do, to be polite.
So most of us here in the south are, in fact, just as educated as the rest of you, and I guarantee that Atlanta at least is cleaner, more liberal, and more accepting than the majority of cities in this country.
So if you hate rednecks, stay away from Mississippi and Alabama, but Atlanta is really a modern, progressive city trapped in a region that is PERCIEVED as retarded, but is actually a lot less racist and stupid than you think.
My personal "ugh" list:
1. Alabama. Don't like it.
2. Mississippi. I grew up a lot here, but I still don't like it.
3. The Florida panhandle. UGH.
4. South Georgia (not Savannah). It's like the panhandle. North Georgia is great, though.
The panhandle is just lower Alabama. Panama City is especially horrid at any time other than spring break.
Wonder_Hippie on
0
Options
FalloutGIRL'S DAYWAS PRETTY GOOD WHILE THEY LASTEDRegistered Userregular
edited May 2007
I know exactly the kind of guys the OP is talking about, and I live near LA. A guy with a Confederate flag on his pickup lives a couple blocks away from me. Trucks in general are hugely popular with these people (skinheads, hardcore kids and other jackasses) and, though it doesn't go as far as leaving rusted cars out front for purposes of fashion, plenty of guys share the sort of mentality that I loathe. Helps that I live near an agricultural area as well, but shit.
What exactly is the problem with Larry the Cable Guy that people have? I don't particularly like him or dislike him, but people seem to genuinely dislike him. The whole thing is clearly a persona and he's just playing a caricature of a the typical redneck stereotype. I recall people being irked that he played a character in Cars.
I can understand if people simply don't find him funny (from what I've seen, his act is fairly bland), but is there anything beyond that?
There's a difference between "not funny" and "incredibly fucking irritating". And Larry the Cable Guy is just a redneck, he's not really relevant to discussion of the south in particular.
ViolentChemistry on
0
Options
FalloutGIRL'S DAYWAS PRETTY GOOD WHILE THEY LASTEDRegistered Userregular
edited May 2007
I haven't exactly perused the collected works of the man, but I actually think Larry the Cable Guy is kind of funny, taken on his own and disregarding the fact that he is a personification of everything I hate about the south, minus the malice.
That is the most shameful thing I could ever tell anyone about myself.
Larry the Cable guy isn't a representation of the south, though. He's a representation of rednecks. They're not the same thing. Jesus can't you fuckers even hate properly?
Edit: People who are indiscernible from that character live in the whole midwest, the whole of New England, and presumably the entirity of the west.
God I hate liberals stop beating around the bush and just say it already. The south votes red because they are all a bunch of red neck hicks right? God forbid people who vote Republican are educated and have a clear understanding of the political system. Naw people who vote red are all a bunch of red neck, bible thumping, racist, homophobes right?
The most liberal person I know is a girl from Kentucky and she cries whenever she hears My Kentucky Home. The south is just like anywhere else, I think the east coast is as racist as the south but everywhere in American seems racist compared to California I suppose. I mean I met a guy from Pennsylvania that lived up to all of the so called "bad southern" stereotypes that the poster just mentioned. I have a feeling that the poster also has something against people that are anti gun control but I'm just guessing.
God I hate liberals stop beating around the bush and just say it already. The south votes red because they are all a bunch of red neck hicks right? God forbid people who vote Republican are educated and have a clear understanding of the political system. Naw people who vote red are all a bunch of red neck, bible thumping, racist, homophobes right?
The most liberal person I know is a girl from Kentucky and she cries whenever she hears My Kentucky Home. The south is just like anywhere else, I think the east coast is as racist as the south but everywhere in American seems racist compared to California I suppose. I mean I met a guy from Pennsylvania that lived up to all of the so called "bad southern" stereotypes that the poster just mentioned. I have a feeling that the poster also has something against people that are anti gun control but I'm just guessing.
I've heard worse biggotry out of all-white states than I've ever heard in my entire life in the southeast.
Example, a friend of mine has relatives in Minnesota that he went to visit. The following conversation took place between him and a friend of the family:
"So, you're from Atlanta, right?"
"Yup"
"They have a lot of coons down there, don't they? What's that like?"
"Like... racoons? I don't know, I've never really seen any, but maybe... it's ok I guess."
"No! Coons! Black people!"
"What?"
Seriously, my friend had NEVER heard the term before, and he was raised in Georgia and Mississippi, yet these kids in Minnesota knew the term well, and used it casually.
Oh, and my friends and I don't have southern accents, either, how unstereotypical of us.
And as much as I love Los Angeles and plan to move there one day, you west coast kids can be a real pain in the ass. Who can preach about being the most tolerant and progressive people in the nation when you have all hispanics in one poor section of town, all blacks in another poor section of town, and then rich white areas. I've never seen a more clear-cut racial/income dividing line than in LA. I hate to break it to you, but New York is still the most progressive city in the US, and LA isn't even close, despite the warm weather and neutral accents.
Quazar on
Your sig is too tall. -Thanatos
XBL: QuazarX
0
Options
FalloutGIRL'S DAYWAS PRETTY GOOD WHILE THEY LASTEDRegistered Userregular
Larry the Cable guy isn't a representation of the south, though. He's a representation of rednecks. They're not the same thing. Jesus can't you fuckers even hate properly?
Edit: People who are indiscernible from that character live in the whole midwest, the whole of New England, and presumably the entirity of the west.
and came from the south.
i'm confused, do you want me to hate more or less discriminately?
God I hate liberals stop beating around the bush and just say it already. The south votes red because they are all a bunch of red neck hicks right? God forbid people who vote Republican are educated and have a clear understanding of the political system. Naw people who vote red are all a bunch of red neck, bible thumping, racist, homophobes right?
The most liberal person I know is a girl from Kentucky and she cries whenever she hears My Kentucky Home. The south is just like anywhere else, I think the east coast is as racist as the south but everywhere in American seems racist compared to California I suppose. I mean I met a guy from Pennsylvania that lived up to all of the so called "bad southern" stereotypes that the poster just mentioned. I have a feeling that the poster also has something against people that are anti gun control but I'm just guessing.
Are you trying to claim that the difference between the north and south that people get all worked up about is that the south is republicans and the north is democrats? Because that doesn't even begin to make sense.
Larry the Cable guy isn't a representation of the south, though. He's a representation of rednecks. They're not the same thing. Jesus can't you fuckers even hate properly?
Edit: People who are indiscernible from that character live in the whole midwest, the whole of New England, and presumably the entirity of the west.
and came from the south.
No, most of them didn't. Most of them are from insular, rural communities, but not the south.
ViolentChemistry on
0
Options
FalloutGIRL'S DAYWAS PRETTY GOOD WHILE THEY LASTEDRegistered Userregular
And as much as I love Los Angeles and plan to move there one day, you west coast kids can be a real pain in the ass. Who can preach about being the most tolerant and progressive people in the nation when you have all hispanics in one poor section of town, all blacks in another poor section of town, and then rich white areas.
Yes, we keep all the Mexicans locked up in poor-pens despite their collective and focused efforts to learn English and integrate into American society. We keep the Mexicans and blacks seperate because we think they get along too well.
Fallout on
0
Options
FalloutGIRL'S DAYWAS PRETTY GOOD WHILE THEY LASTEDRegistered Userregular
Larry the Cable guy isn't a representation of the south, though. He's a representation of rednecks. They're not the same thing. Jesus can't you fuckers even hate properly?
Edit: People who are indiscernible from that character live in the whole midwest, the whole of New England, and presumably the entirity of the west.
and came from the south.
No, most of them didn't. Most of them are from insular, rural communities, but not the south.
I know, there are plenty of them where I live in socal, but those folk are most concentrated in the american south.
(For the record, I was born in Texas and lived in a broke-ass part of Florida for 10 years.)
I know, there are plenty of them where I live in socal, but those folk are most concentrated in the american south.
(For the record, I was born in Texas and lived in a broke-ass part of Florida for 10 years.)
And in at least two cities of every other state, where they make up the majority of those cities. No, rednecks are not relevant. You're talking about one specific group of people and saying "oh, that's why people hate the south". Which makes no sense at all, because if I were to run into a redneck in Jersey, my response would not likely be "goddamn I hate the south". The problems with the social climate in the south are bigger than just some group of bigots out in the boonies. It's more the prevalence of a "not my business" and "oh but we don't talk about that" types of mindset. What's that Louisiana-word for it? I forget, but the girl I learned it from seemed to think it was the best idea ever.
And as much as I love Los Angeles and plan to move there one day, you west coast kids can be a real pain in the ass. Who can preach about being the most tolerant and progressive people in the nation when you have all hispanics in one poor section of town, all blacks in another poor section of town, and then rich white areas.
Yes, we keep all the Mexicans locked up in poor-pens despite their collective and focused efforts to learn English and integrate into American society. We keep the Mexicans and blacks seperate because we think they get along too well.
I wasn't trying to say it's on purpose, but it is happening. I do realize that Los Angeles now has its first hispanic mayor, and changes are being made, but Hollywood in particular wants the world to think it's the most socially progressive and responsible entity on the planet because they drive Priuses and adopt African babies. NYC is the most progessive city in America, bar none.
Yes, there are a lot of idiots in the South, but at this point most younger generations are, dare I say, MORE progressive than young people in the rest of the country.
I live in a mostly white middle-class suburb, and yet interracial relationships are very, VERY common here. Nobody bats an eye. I only point this out because I've noticed that outside of a very few cities, that's not the case. Maybe it's just because it's Atlanta, but Georgia is seen as "yee-haw redneck" when SUPRISE, it's not.
The laws of the South made it look racist for a very long time. That has changed so dramatically over the last 50 years that I honestly don't think most of the country realizes it. The South circa 1950 and the South circa 2007 are two COMPLETELY different things. The only thing that stayed was friendiness and talking slower.
Also, most of the people I've spoken to who like Larry the Cable Guy here (I recruit people for movie surveys, and did many for Delta Farce) don't even have an accent, and like him for the same reasons young progressives like Stephen Colbert. It's satire. He becomes a dumb redneck in order to make fun of himself and other dumb rednecks, and making fun of rednecks is funny.
There is the occassional fat, WWE-loving redneck kid who just spouts out "GIT R DUN" and laughs, but most people would look at that kid and say "Ok, he's missing the point".
Quazar on
Your sig is too tall. -Thanatos
XBL: QuazarX
0
Options
FalloutGIRL'S DAYWAS PRETTY GOOD WHILE THEY LASTEDRegistered Userregular
I know, there are plenty of them where I live in socal, but those folk are most concentrated in the american south.
(For the record, I was born in Texas and lived in a broke-ass part of Florida for 10 years.)
And in at least two cities of every other state, where they make up the majority of those cities. No, rednecks are not relevant. You're talking about one specific group of people and saying "oh, that's why people hate the south". Which makes no sense at all, because if I were to run into a redneck in Jersey, my response would not likely be "goddamn I hate the south". The problems with the social climate in the south are bigger than just some group of bigots out in the boonies. It's more the prevalence of a "not my business" and "oh but we don't talk about that" types of mindset. What's that Louisiana-word for it? I forget, but the girl I learned it from seemed to think it was the best idea ever.
I think we are talking about different things.
What I meant I guess is that this redneck culture that i feel encompasses more or less everything that is wrong with the south sprang up in, well, the south. Good ol' boys with this sort of mentality are very common down there and that is where most people associate that stereotype and manner of thinking with.
And, if the "why do people hate things they don't know anything about" comment was directed at me, I think the rationale for hating people that (regardless of geographical origin) think that keeping a rusty car with a rubber ballsack on the trailer hitch up on cinder blocks on their front lawn is an A+ cool kid thing to do is self-evident.
I've never been there, but any city that hates the NY Yankees is ok with me.
New York is like America - everyone hates then but they don't really care because they are New York.
Boston likes to pose as a really progressive city, but most of the time they just copy New York. Except for the gay marriage thing - got the bastards beat there.
I know, there are plenty of them where I live in socal, but those folk are most concentrated in the american south.
(For the record, I was born in Texas and lived in a broke-ass part of Florida for 10 years.)
And in at least two cities of every other state, where they make up the majority of those cities. No, rednecks are not relevant. You're talking about one specific group of people and saying "oh, that's why people hate the south". Which makes no sense at all, because if I were to run into a redneck in Jersey, my response would not likely be "goddamn I hate the south". The problems with the social climate in the south are bigger than just some group of bigots out in the boonies. It's more the prevalence of a "not my business" and "oh but we don't talk about that" types of mindset. What's that Louisiana-word for it? I forget, but the girl I learned it from seemed to think it was the best idea ever.
I think we are talking about different things.
What I meant I guess is that this redneck culture that i feel encompasses more or less everything that is wrong with the south sprang up in, well, the south. Good ol' boys with this sort of mentality are very common down there and that is where most people associate that stereotype and manner of thinking with.
Except it didn't spring up in the south, it's not the mentality that causes the problems in the south, it's not the mentality of the majority of the south. If you want to hate rednecks, go hate rednecks, no one's stopping you. But when you start trying to claim that the south has anything to do with it, you opt to be the guy who camps his own spawn so that he can blow up anyone who gets in the helicopter.
ViolentChemistry on
0
Options
FalloutGIRL'S DAYWAS PRETTY GOOD WHILE THEY LASTEDRegistered Userregular
I wasn't trying to say it's on purpose, but it is happening.
What is? The white man collectively herding minorities into their respective ghetto-pastures? Accidentally now though? I don't understand what you're trying to say.
I do realize that Los Angeles now has its first hispanic mayor, and changes are being made, but Hollywood in particular wants the world to think it's the most socially progressive and responsible entity on the planet because they drive Priuses and adopt African babies. NYC is the most progessive city in America, bar none.
I hate LA, do not care how progressive it thinks it is, and have never been to New York.
Yes, there are a lot of idiots in the South, but at this point most younger generations are, dare I say, MORE progressive than young people in the rest of the country.
I live in a mostly white middle-class suburb, and yet interracial relationships are very, VERY common here. Nobody bats an eye. I only point this out because I've noticed that outside of a very few cities, that's not the case. Maybe it's just because it's Atlanta, but Georgia is seen as "yee-haw redneck" when SUPRISE, it's not.
The laws of the South made it look racist for a very long time. That has changed so dramatically over the last 50 years that I honestly don't think most of the country realizes it. The South circa 1950 and the South circa 2007 are two COMPLETELY different things. The only thing that stayed was friendiness and talking slower.
You're gonna have to forgive me if I find it hard to believe that the American south is the contemporary axis of racial harmony and progressive attitudes. New York aside, of course.
Fallout on
0
Options
FalloutGIRL'S DAYWAS PRETTY GOOD WHILE THEY LASTEDRegistered Userregular
I know, there are plenty of them where I live in socal, but those folk are most concentrated in the american south.
(For the record, I was born in Texas and lived in a broke-ass part of Florida for 10 years.)
And in at least two cities of every other state, where they make up the majority of those cities. No, rednecks are not relevant. You're talking about one specific group of people and saying "oh, that's why people hate the south". Which makes no sense at all, because if I were to run into a redneck in Jersey, my response would not likely be "goddamn I hate the south". The problems with the social climate in the south are bigger than just some group of bigots out in the boonies. It's more the prevalence of a "not my business" and "oh but we don't talk about that" types of mindset. What's that Louisiana-word for it? I forget, but the girl I learned it from seemed to think it was the best idea ever.
I think we are talking about different things.
What I meant I guess is that this redneck culture that i feel encompasses more or less everything that is wrong with the south sprang up in, well, the south. Good ol' boys with this sort of mentality are very common down there and that is where most people associate that stereotype and manner of thinking with.
Except it didn't spring up in the south, it's not the mentality that causes the problems in the south, it's not the mentality of the majority of the south. If you want to hate rednecks, go hate rednecks, no one's stopping you. But when you start trying to claim that the south has anything to do with it, you opt to be the guy who camps his own spawn so that he can blow up anyone who gets in the helicopter.
What, you think southern stereotypes are fabrications?
Nobody said it's the majority mentality of the population of the southern united states. I'm saying the stupider aspects of southern culture have proliferated across the US and apparently Canada.
Posts
I remember being at a mall in Alexandria, LA and hearing a man (and older one, to be fair) belt out to his buddy that Kerry was a "secret Jew" and that "you may as well elect a ni**er!!" (EDIT: This was, of course, 2004)
Yeah, not even in his indoor voice. And nobody seemed to bat an eyelash.
I mean yeah, the guy was old and from a different era and blah blah blah. But up here even the old people know that that shit isn't socially acceptable...and we've got a ton of racists up here, and no black people.
I am from New Orleans, and moved away when I was about 24. After the storm, a lot of people left. A bunch of my family and friends stayed. They're all happy and excited. New Orleans can finally be great, they told me, now that all the n1gg3as were gone ("Houston's problem now!").
Now, I live in Austin, and while this is an awesome town, we're surrounded by the rest of Texas, which always smells faintly of chewing tobacco and taxidermy.
It's not all-encompassing, and its not unique. It isn't more retarded than some other cultures' ways of being retarded. But to say that the kind of culture mentioned in the OP does not exist, even today, is something I just can't buy. I've seen it in action, and heard the most vile stereotyping come, straight-faced, out of the mouths of my very own cousins during the first two thirds of my life.
I don't think anyone is arguing it doesn't exist, but at the ignorance expressed in some of the statements. The opening post was the equivalent of saying only two groups of people exist and that they're confined only to the South. It overgeneralizes an entire region and fails to address the greater problems, such as racism, that aren't confined only to the South (as addressed in this very thread).
It's really hard to address the South as region, because historically and culturally it's really two distinct sections (the upper south and lower south/deep south) with occasional outliers included (such as Texas). Maryland is even considered a southern state depending on the definition. It's important to address which area you're addressing, because a problem that affects one, may not have a major influence on another even if the entire region encompasses a similar culture.
The Bible Thumping Asshole types are -everywhere-.
That's how they can elect people.
Right.
I wasn't trying to say that all people from the south come in these two flavors. I don't know how many times I have to say this, but I was talking about people that specifically identify as southern as a part of their personality or culture. It's not about the region to me, it's about the culture.
Think of that movie Black Snake Moan. Remember Christina Ricci's character? Trashy, uneducated, etc. Ignoring the more meta themes of the movie for the moment, the people I'm talking about are like her, except that they take that milieux and run with it. They are completely unabashed about vehemently identifying as things that are negative in nature.
Really, it's like the stereotypical frat boy. They revel in drinking copious amounts of beer and fucking anything that moves. They do exist, and they are a problem. I'm just talking about this specific problem because it seems to me that it's getting pretty widespread. It's a minority, yes, but they're there, and they're a problem.
Look, it's like this. There's everybody else, and then there's this specific group. I made the distinction in the OP because I didn't want it to seem like I was saying all southerners are like this, or that the southern culture exclusively carries these values. Southern culture carries some very good values, but these people are eschewing those in favor of the bad aspects of it.
VishNub: Too stupid to say something constructive?
See, and I'm not part of that consensus. My limited experience with the South, as well as my less-limited experience with Southerners, says that the general social climate of the South actually is different from the rest of the country. Iowa or Montana can be backward, or even racist, but something about the South just seems different. Maybe it's what has always seemed to me to be a more casual attitude regarding public racism, including acting on that racism. Or maybe the way many people there actually embrace being so utterly backward. I don't know.
I don't know. I've been around a bit, though. I've lived in rural Pennsylvania, rural Kansas, Montana (it only comes in one variety) and travelled in rural California...the South was just different.
I make this claim almost daily.
That's exactly it, that's what I have issue with the most.
America is fine.
It's all the fricking colonists that won't get the fuck out.
--
W_H: To be honest, I think a massive part of the population is that backwards. The South is just more honest about it.
--LeVar Burton
YES.
I was thinking this exact thing reading the OP. "The South? Are you sure you're not describing Red Bluff?"
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Because it's impossible that you have a different idea of which parts constitute "good" and which are "bad".
I can understand if people simply don't find him funny (from what I've seen, his act is fairly bland), but is there anything beyond that?
Watch some of that terrible show, Blue Collar TV, and you might understand.
Seriously though, he's a part of that glorification of trashy cultures. People that pride themselves on how backwards they are.
I was born here in Atlanta. I went from Kindergarden to 2nd grade in Birmingham, Alabama. I then spent 3rd - 8th grade in Jackson, Mississippi before moving back to Atlanta. I want to clear up some things:
1. Atlanta is not "old south". For those of you living in the rest of the country, Atlanta is NOT a confederate flag-waving racist city. Not in the least. If anything it's one of the most successfull "black cities" in the country. Are there rednecks? Of course, but they're out in the boonies, stay to themselves, and ironically listen to a lot of rap music. I don't even think they know what the confederate flag means. Atlanta is a very modern, trendy, hipster infested place just like Seattle, San Fran, etc. I mean we have a higher per capita gay population than San Francisco. Rednecks generally stay away from that.
2. Alabama sucks ass. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of nice people there. But it still sucks. Some of the land is beautiful, but it still sucks. It's just plain trashy.
3. Mississippi has no fucking clue the South lost. I mean really. They all say the South should have won the war. But they're not racist. They fly confederate flags ALL OVER THE PLACE, but they all have black friends and don't see what the big deal is. Even the black people just put up with it. When asked about slavery, they all say "Well, it would have gone away eventually anyway". Seriously.
But the real point is that most people in the south are friendly. They really are. Even if you're a gay muslim. Just watch Borat. The southern people may not LIKE him, but they definitely tolerate him more than other people do, to be polite.
So most of us here in the south are, in fact, just as educated as the rest of you, and I guarantee that Atlanta at least is cleaner, more liberal, and more accepting than the majority of cities in this country.
So if you hate rednecks, stay away from Mississippi and Alabama, but Atlanta is really a modern, progressive city trapped in a region that is PERCIEVED as retarded, but is actually a lot less racist and stupid than you think.
My personal "ugh" list:
1. Alabama. Don't like it.
2. Mississippi. I grew up a lot here, but I still don't like it.
3. The Florida panhandle. UGH.
4. South Georgia (not Savannah). It's like the panhandle. North Georgia is great, though.
XBL: QuazarX
GIT'ER DOOOOOOONNNE
There's a difference between "not funny" and "incredibly fucking irritating". And Larry the Cable Guy is just a redneck, he's not really relevant to discussion of the south in particular.
That is the most shameful thing I could ever tell anyone about myself.
Edit: People who are indiscernible from that character live in the whole midwest, the whole of New England, and presumably the entirity of the west.
The most liberal person I know is a girl from Kentucky and she cries whenever she hears My Kentucky Home. The south is just like anywhere else, I think the east coast is as racist as the south but everywhere in American seems racist compared to California I suppose. I mean I met a guy from Pennsylvania that lived up to all of the so called "bad southern" stereotypes that the poster just mentioned. I have a feeling that the poster also has something against people that are anti gun control but I'm just guessing.
Example, a friend of mine has relatives in Minnesota that he went to visit. The following conversation took place between him and a friend of the family:
"So, you're from Atlanta, right?"
"Yup"
"They have a lot of coons down there, don't they? What's that like?"
"Like... racoons? I don't know, I've never really seen any, but maybe... it's ok I guess."
"No! Coons! Black people!"
"What?"
Seriously, my friend had NEVER heard the term before, and he was raised in Georgia and Mississippi, yet these kids in Minnesota knew the term well, and used it casually.
Oh, and my friends and I don't have southern accents, either, how unstereotypical of us.
And as much as I love Los Angeles and plan to move there one day, you west coast kids can be a real pain in the ass. Who can preach about being the most tolerant and progressive people in the nation when you have all hispanics in one poor section of town, all blacks in another poor section of town, and then rich white areas. I've never seen a more clear-cut racial/income dividing line than in LA. I hate to break it to you, but New York is still the most progressive city in the US, and LA isn't even close, despite the warm weather and neutral accents.
XBL: QuazarX
and came from the south.
i'm confused, do you want me to hate more or less discriminately?
Are you trying to claim that the difference between the north and south that people get all worked up about is that the south is republicans and the north is democrats? Because that doesn't even begin to make sense.
No, most of them didn't. Most of them are from insular, rural communities, but not the south.
Yes, we keep all the Mexicans locked up in poor-pens despite their collective and focused efforts to learn English and integrate into American society. We keep the Mexicans and blacks seperate because we think they get along too well.
I know, there are plenty of them where I live in socal, but those folk are most concentrated in the american south.
(For the record, I was born in Texas and lived in a broke-ass part of Florida for 10 years.)
And in at least two cities of every other state, where they make up the majority of those cities. No, rednecks are not relevant. You're talking about one specific group of people and saying "oh, that's why people hate the south". Which makes no sense at all, because if I were to run into a redneck in Jersey, my response would not likely be "goddamn I hate the south". The problems with the social climate in the south are bigger than just some group of bigots out in the boonies. It's more the prevalence of a "not my business" and "oh but we don't talk about that" types of mindset. What's that Louisiana-word for it? I forget, but the girl I learned it from seemed to think it was the best idea ever.
Yes, there are a lot of idiots in the South, but at this point most younger generations are, dare I say, MORE progressive than young people in the rest of the country.
I live in a mostly white middle-class suburb, and yet interracial relationships are very, VERY common here. Nobody bats an eye. I only point this out because I've noticed that outside of a very few cities, that's not the case. Maybe it's just because it's Atlanta, but Georgia is seen as "yee-haw redneck" when SUPRISE, it's not.
The laws of the South made it look racist for a very long time. That has changed so dramatically over the last 50 years that I honestly don't think most of the country realizes it. The South circa 1950 and the South circa 2007 are two COMPLETELY different things. The only thing that stayed was friendiness and talking slower.
Also, most of the people I've spoken to who like Larry the Cable Guy here (I recruit people for movie surveys, and did many for Delta Farce) don't even have an accent, and like him for the same reasons young progressives like Stephen Colbert. It's satire. He becomes a dumb redneck in order to make fun of himself and other dumb rednecks, and making fun of rednecks is funny.
There is the occassional fat, WWE-loving redneck kid who just spouts out "GIT R DUN" and laughs, but most people would look at that kid and say "Ok, he's missing the point".
XBL: QuazarX
I think we are talking about different things.
What I meant I guess is that this redneck culture that i feel encompasses more or less everything that is wrong with the south sprang up in, well, the south. Good ol' boys with this sort of mentality are very common down there and that is where most people associate that stereotype and manner of thinking with.
And, if the "why do people hate things they don't know anything about" comment was directed at me, I think the rationale for hating people that (regardless of geographical origin) think that keeping a rusty car with a rubber ballsack on the trailer hitch up on cinder blocks on their front lawn is an A+ cool kid thing to do is self-evident.
I've never been there, but any city that hates the NY Yankees is ok with me.
XBL: QuazarX
New York is like America - everyone hates then but they don't really care because they are New York.
Boston likes to pose as a really progressive city, but most of the time they just copy New York. Except for the gay marriage thing - got the bastards beat there.
Except it didn't spring up in the south, it's not the mentality that causes the problems in the south, it's not the mentality of the majority of the south. If you want to hate rednecks, go hate rednecks, no one's stopping you. But when you start trying to claim that the south has anything to do with it, you opt to be the guy who camps his own spawn so that he can blow up anyone who gets in the helicopter.
What is? The white man collectively herding minorities into their respective ghetto-pastures? Accidentally now though? I don't understand what you're trying to say.
I hate LA, do not care how progressive it thinks it is, and have never been to New York.
You're gonna have to forgive me if I find it hard to believe that the American south is the contemporary axis of racial harmony and progressive attitudes. New York aside, of course.
What, you think southern stereotypes are fabrications?
Nobody said it's the majority mentality of the population of the southern united states. I'm saying the stupider aspects of southern culture have proliferated across the US and apparently Canada.
REDNECKS ARE NOT SOUTHERN STEREOTYPES.