Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

Bioshock - choice *is* wrong

13468924

Posts

  • Edge_TurnEdge_Turn Registered User
    edited May 2007
    Narian wrote: »
    As soon as I read the first post I said "Levine will put in a good way to implement the Little Sister's invulnerability." I tend to give Devs the benefit of the doubt on unreleased games.

    And sure enough I was right.


    Yeah, I'm still really glad we went with the little girl idea. After we ditched the sea slug idea we knew we needed something that evoked empathy in the player, but understandably there was some trepidation about it being a child. I remember some early sketches of dogs (with their hind-legs bound to little wheelers), ADAM-addicted chimps, and something that was a cross between an Oompa-Loompa and an Ugnaught - wasn't nobody gonna think twice about shooting that little bastard.

    Gone from Shock to Rock...
  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    The point is System Shock and Freedom Force are awesome enough to make me totally confident.

    saiyan2.jpg
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Here's something to think about - you just know you're going to destroy the underwater habitat by the end of the game. Either in a Resident Evil-esque self-destruct command or sending torpedoes at the hull, the evil villain's underwater hideout always goes boom before the end credits. So all those Little Sisters are dead anyways.

    Please make no reference to the System Shock 2 ending - it invalidates my notions. :)

    Angryspider2_zps663851d1.jpg
  • XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    endlosnull wrote: »
    JWFokker wrote: »
    So what the fuck is it supposed to look like?

    In the words of the artist who made it, "I'm positively agape!"

    It doesn't look that much like it.
    People are overinterpreting, I think.

    I have seen lots of other designs like that that predate the thing in question.

  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous WALK 3X FASTER New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Xagarath wrote: »
    endlosnull wrote: »
    JWFokker wrote: »
    So what the fuck is it supposed to look like?

    In the words of the artist who made it, "I'm positively agape!"

    It doesn't look that much like it.
    People are overinterpreting, I think.

    I have seen lots of other designs like that that predate the thing in question.
    Cue picture of that UT2K4 assault map.

    zaku.png
    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: WaffleMous#1483
  • Edge_TurnEdge_Turn Registered User
    edited May 2007
    Xagarath wrote: »
    endlosnull wrote: »
    JWFokker wrote: »
    So what the fuck is it supposed to look like?

    In the words of the artist who made it, "I'm positively agape!"

    It doesn't look that much like it.
    People are overinterpreting, I think.

    I have seen lots of other designs like that that predate the thing in question.

    Nah, the guy who designed it admitted as much on the TTLG forums. He just stylized to the point that it wasn't too obvious.

    Gone from Shock to Rock...
  • NarianNarian Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Furu wrote: »
    OH GOD

    I FINALLY GOT IT

    OH FUCK WHY DID I HAVE TO GET IT

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

    For some reason as soon as I read this post I got it.

    Narian.gif
  • EdcrabEdcrab Registered User
    edited May 2007
    But it even has the goddamn wedding ring.

    cBY55.gifbmJsl.png
  • XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Edge_Turn wrote: »
    Xagarath wrote: »
    endlosnull wrote: »
    JWFokker wrote: »
    So what the fuck is it supposed to look like?

    In the words of the artist who made it, "I'm positively agape!"

    It doesn't look that much like it.
    People are overinterpreting, I think.

    I have seen lots of other designs like that that predate the thing in question.

    Nah, the guy who designed it admitted as much on the TTLG forums. He just stylized to the point that it wasn't too obvious.

    I'm impressed they kept it after that.

  • scootchscootch Registered User
    edited May 2007
    Pharezon wrote: »
    scootch wrote: »
    Rook wrote: »
    If you look at the videos they run around for cover.

    what the hell for?

    Wouldn't you run around the corner if there were bullets and grenades flying everywhere?

    not when it doesn't hurt me.

    TF2 stats
    PSN: super_emu
    Xbox360 Gamertag: Emuchop
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Boston, MARegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I'm not going to lie, I really don't like this change because it goes against the absolute freedom I wanted in this game. No, I don't have any sick fantasies about murdering children - but I did want the difficulty to spare their lives in a real fight. Like Levine mentions, apparently it was hard to save the girl's life while taking down the Big Daddy and that pissed people off. Personally? I think that's how it should be. In most games, in fact damn near any game, it's always easier to just to kill everyone off than take the higher road. It's easier to just unload on an entire room rather than save the hostage for a few bonus points.

    I thought Bioshock was going to be different. If you wanted to keep your humanity you were going to have to save / cure those little girls and you were going to have to work your ass off to do it. That means no stupid grenades, explosives, or simply unloading an automatic weapon in their direction. That's the kind of difficulty I wanted.

    EDIT: I suppose it won't be too long till this game is cracked and their vulnerable anyway.

    I am in the business of saving lives.

    camo_sig2.png
  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    The comments on that picture are absolutely priceless. This one is my favorite:
    I have seen that symbol before and do not remember where.

    JKKaAGp.png
  • NarianNarian Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Like Levine mentions, apparently it was hard to save the girl's life while taking down the Big Daddy and that pissed people off. Personally? I think that's how it should be. In most games, in fact damn near any game, it's always easier to just to kill everyone off than take the higher road. It's easier to just unload on an entire room rather than save the hostage for a few bonus points.

    Sure it could be more 'realistic' but if you look at it from a gameplay perspective you see that with all the shit that's going on in Rapture having the Little Sister's die all the firggin time whenever you're near them trying to fight can be highly frustrating.

    Narian.gif
  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Narian wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Like Levine mentions, apparently it was hard to save the girl's life while taking down the Big Daddy and that pissed people off. Personally? I think that's how it should be. In most games, in fact damn near any game, it's always easier to just to kill everyone off than take the higher road. It's easier to just unload on an entire room rather than save the hostage for a few bonus points.

    Sure it could be more 'realistic' but if you look at it from a gameplay perspective you see that with all the shit that's going on in Rapture having the Little Sister's die all the firggin time whenever you're near them trying to fight can be highly frustrating.

    Plus, it takes an entire munitions depot to take down a Big Daddy. If you watch the gameplay video where thet attempt to kill one, they use grenades, drones, fire, you name it. There is very little chance of anyone living.

    JKKaAGp.png
  • NarianNarian Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Narian wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Like Levine mentions, apparently it was hard to save the girl's life while taking down the Big Daddy and that pissed people off. Personally? I think that's how it should be. In most games, in fact damn near any game, it's always easier to just to kill everyone off than take the higher road. It's easier to just unload on an entire room rather than save the hostage for a few bonus points.

    Sure it could be more 'realistic' but if you look at it from a gameplay perspective you see that with all the shit that's going on in Rapture having the Little Sister's die all the firggin time whenever you're near them trying to fight can be highly frustrating.

    Plus, it takes an entire munitions depot to take down a Big Daddy. If you watch the gameplay video where thet attempt to kill one, they use grenades, drones, fire, you name it. There is very little chance of anyone living.

    Exactly. This is a game, and Levine et Co. and making it to entertain you and when Little Sisters die waaaay too easily the game is not fun. So Levine decided to work around this and soon enough we'll know exactly what this work around is.

    Narian.gif
  • StollsStolls Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    I'm not going to lie, I really don't like this change because it goes against the absolute freedom I wanted in this game. No, I don't have any sick fantasies about murdering children - but I did want the difficulty to spare their lives in a real fight. Like Levine mentions, apparently it was hard to save the girl's life while taking down the Big Daddy and that pissed people off. Personally? I think that's how it should be. In most games, in fact damn near any game, it's always easier to just to kill everyone off than take the higher road. It's easier to just unload on an entire room rather than save the hostage for a few bonus points.

    I thought Bioshock was going to be different. If you wanted to keep your humanity you were going to have to save / cure those little girls and you were going to have to work your ass off to do it. That means no stupid grenades, explosives, or simply unloading an automatic weapon in their direction. That's the kind of difficulty I wanted.

    EDIT: I suppose it won't be too long till this game is cracked and their vulnerable anyway.

    I think it's worth asking why the sisters were so easily killed by accident. Was there not enough room in the environment to properly evade? Did grenades bounce or bullets ricochet too much? Did the AI do dumb things like run out into the middle of open fire to get to a pre-selected cover point, or stray too far from its protector? Were the daddies just not fast enough to stop the player, or could they be easily fooled?

    Granted, I didn't play System Shock for intense and challenging combat, as it was often neither. Still, if you're going to go on about these two characters and their complex behavior within a mutant ecosystem, you have to at least try to be prepared for what a diligent player can do.

  • XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    The comments on that picture are absolutely priceless. This one is my favorite:
    I have seen that symbol before and do not remember where.

    Thing is,
    I was actually thinking of some chapter/armour symbol stuff in Warhammer 40k or something when I said that.

  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Xagarath wrote: »
    The comments on that picture are absolutely priceless. This one is my favorite:
    I have seen that symbol before and do not remember where.

    Thing is,
    I was actually thinking of some chapter/armour symbol stuff in Warhammer 40k or something when I said that.

    It's still quite funny when you read it like that.

    JKKaAGp.png
  • XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Xagarath wrote: »
    The comments on that picture are absolutely priceless. This one is my favorite:
    I have seen that symbol before and do not remember where.

    Thing is,
    I was actually thinking of some chapter/armour symbol stuff in Warhammer 40k or something when I said that.

    It's still quite funny when you read it like that.
    True, true.


    I was lying and have never seen it before in my life.

  • HeirHeir Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I still have no idea what you guys are seeing with that picture. What's this talk of a goat?

    Am I just incredibly dense, or very very lucky?

    camo_sig2.png
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Heir wrote: »
    I still have no idea what you guys are seeing with that picture. What's this talk of a goat?

    Am I just incredibly dense, or very very lucky?

    Very lucky. You've never been goatse'd. (DO NOT put that into a search box).

    Short answer: Its a picture of a man holding his ass open. Very. Very. Wide.

  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Xagarath wrote: »
    Xagarath wrote: »
    The comments on that picture are absolutely priceless. This one is my favorite:
    I have seen that symbol before and do not remember where.

    Thing is,
    I was actually thinking of some chapter/armour symbol stuff in Warhammer 40k or something when I said that.

    It's still quite funny when you read it like that.
    True, true.


    I was lying and have never seen it before in my life.

    Goatse is burned into your mind.

    JKKaAGp.png
  • HeirHeir Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Heir wrote: »
    I still have no idea what you guys are seeing with that picture. What's this talk of a goat?

    Am I just incredibly dense, or very very lucky?

    Very lucky. You've never been goatse'd. (DO NOT put that into a search box).

    Short answer: Its a picture of a man holding his ass open. Very. Very. Wide.

    Oh God no! I've seen it before, but my mind had repressed it. Now I remember it all! Goatse, tub girl, being molested by my father....noooo!

    camo_sig2.png
  • DarmakDarmak Godking of the Snerkywizards Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Ahahahahahahaha, took me a few minutes to get the picture, but it's awesome. Totally awesome. I love goatse.

    edit: I must be desensitized or something because goatse doesn't bother me like it seems to do you guys.

    PIZTDhW.jpg
  • XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Xagarath wrote: »
    Xagarath wrote: »
    The comments on that picture are absolutely priceless. This one is my favorite:
    I have seen that symbol before and do not remember where.

    Thing is,
    I was actually thinking of some chapter/armour symbol stuff in Warhammer 40k or something when I said that.

    It's still quite funny when you read it like that.
    True, true.


    I was lying and have never seen it before in my life.

    Goatse is burned into your mind.


    I have absolutely idea what you are talking about, and never will

  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Darmak wrote: »
    Ahahahahahahaha, took me a few minutes to get the picture, but it's awesome. Totally awesome. I love goatse.

    edit: I must be desensitized or something because goatse doesn't bother me like it seems to do you guys.

    I'm not sensitive but BAM, gaping ass out of nowhere was a bit much. :P

  • DarmakDarmak Godking of the Snerkywizards Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Darmak wrote: »
    Ahahahahahahaha, took me a few minutes to get the picture, but it's awesome. Totally awesome. I love goatse.

    edit: I must be desensitized or something because goatse doesn't bother me like it seems to do you guys.

    I'm not sensitive but BAM, gaping ass out of nowhere was a bit much. :P

    That's true, I was rather surprised when I first saw it (thanks to SE++ no less. I didn't know what it was and asked for a PM <img class=" title=":lol:" class="bbcode_smiley" />).

    PIZTDhW.jpg
  • EdcrabEdcrab Registered User
    edited May 2007
    Darmak wrote: »
    Ahahahahahahaha, took me a few minutes to get the picture, but it's awesome. Totally awesome. I love goatse.

    edit: I must be desensitized or something because goatse doesn't bother me like it seems to do you guys.

    ...sig time.

    Not mine, but somebody's, surely!

    cBY55.gifbmJsl.png
  • DarmakDarmak Godking of the Snerkywizards Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Edcrab wrote: »
    Darmak wrote: »
    Ahahahahahahaha, took me a few minutes to get the picture, but it's awesome. Totally awesome. I love goatse.

    edit: I must be desensitized or something because goatse doesn't bother me like it seems to do you guys.

    ...sig time.

    Not mine, but somebody's, surely!

    Especially the "I love goatse." part.

    PIZTDhW.jpg
  • JWFokkerJWFokker Registered User
    edited May 2007
    That's quite awesome. I'll totally buy the special edition if they actually make the box look like that.

  • darleysamdarleysam Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    ahahahahahahahahaha, i'm actually crying with laughter. Genius. And the responses made it funnier.

    Back to the posts from the team though, it's good to see them talking like that, taking responsibility, and also calling it a design decision. That shows it's something that's been thought out, developed, refined, and implemented. It's not just a rushed patch to cover up something they thought wouldn't pass the ratings board, but rather a decision they felt would improve the game, and tested until it worked.
    Good show.

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    This is a fairly disappointing decision to me, because it seems to go completely against the games actual themes of providing choice in how the player interacts with the environment to the player. Now how we interact with the environment (which can include AIs) is being dictated entirely by the game designer and that's not what originally got me interested in the game at all.

    I do hope this is an isolated example and not a recurring design theme, because the game still sounds awesome from everything else I've read.

  • ClevingerClevinger Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Do you get a reward for "rescuing" them? And by rescue, do they mean killing the protector and then not killing the girl?

  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Clevinger wrote: »
    Do you get a reward for "rescuing" them? And by rescue, do they mean killing the protector and then not killing the girl?
    That's actually something I mentioned earlier. I'll feel bad if the option is A.) be evil and kill the big daddy and the girl, or B.) kill the big daddy, save the girl

    I mean... the big daddies are like giant armoured drill armed teddy bears!

  • PharezonPharezon Struggle is an illusion. Victory is in the Qun.Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    FUCK FUCK FUCK. I WIKI'D THAT. FUCK MY EYES!!!!!!!!
    AGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

    jkZziGc.png
  • ClevingerClevinger Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=C5yUcQIaDkE

    Seven minutes of new footage. Might contain spoilers if you're sensitive to that sort of thing.

  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
  • PharezonPharezon Struggle is an illusion. Victory is in the Qun.Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I honestly expected goatse.

    Same. My mind has been fucked so many times this year.

    jkZziGc.png
  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Clevinger wrote: »
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=C5yUcQIaDkE

    Seven minutes of new footage. Might contain spoilers if you're sensitive to that sort of thing.

    Man, this is going to scare the everliving shit out of me.

  • PharezonPharezon Struggle is an illusion. Victory is in the Qun.Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Rolo wrote: »
    Clevinger wrote: »
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=C5yUcQIaDkE

    Seven minutes of new footage. Might contain spoilers if you're sensitive to that sort of thing.

    Man, this is going to scare the everliving shit out of me.

    Also that trailer was intense. That big daddy was scary. >.>

    jkZziGc.png
13468924
Sign In or Register to comment.