I've known plenty of violent people who liked to smoke the herb.
I've known violent people who liked to drink coca-cola.
Because obviously an illegal controlled substance is equivalent to a soft drink, and I get handcuffed for having a cola in my car all the time.
Do you really want to carry this non sequitur further?
I don't see what being illegal has to do with being used by violent people. I say we handcuff everybody who is seen drinking beer because I know violent people who drink it.
If you guys really want to turn this into an anti cop circle jerk, just say so now and I'll let you guys compare how you're stickin it to da man.
Otherwise, let's deal with reality and accept that if you find drugs in a car, its probably a good idea to handcuff all involved until you do a search of a car so someone doesn't put a knife in your back.
So they will just put a knife into the front of you instead. I think it would be a better idea to not let them out of your sight.
I've known plenty of violent people who liked to smoke the herb.
I've known violent people who liked to drink coca-cola.
Because obviously an illegal controlled substance is equivalent to a soft drink, and I get handcuffed for having a cola in my car all the time.
Do you really want to carry this non sequitur further?
I don't see what being illegal has to do with being used by violent people. I say we handcuff everybody who is seen drinking beer because I know violent people who drink it.
If you guys really want to turn this into an anti cop circle jerk, just say so now and I'll let you guys compare how you're stickin it to da man.
Otherwise, let's deal with reality and accept that if you find drugs in a car, its probably a good idea to handcuff all involved until you do a search of a car so someone doesn't put a knife in your back.
So they will just put a knife into the front of you instead. I think it would be a better idea to not let them out of your sight.
Outside of Houdini like antics, how are they going to put a knife in the front of you if they're handcuffed and restrained?
I've known plenty of violent people who liked to smoke the herb.
I've known violent people who liked to drink coca-cola.
Because obviously an illegal controlled substance is equivalent to a soft drink, and I get handcuffed for having a cola in my car all the time.
Do you really want to carry this non sequitur further?
I don't see what being illegal has to do with being used by violent people. I say we handcuff everybody who is seen drinking beer because I know violent people who drink it.
If you guys really want to turn this into an anti cop circle jerk, just say so now and I'll let you guys compare how you're stickin it to da man.
Otherwise, let's deal with reality and accept that if you find drugs in a car, its probably a good idea to handcuff all involved until you do a search of a car so someone dosen't put a knife in your back.
He's not saying anything against people who enforce the law against it. It's illegal and if you're caught with it, you're arrested, plain and simple. But being illegal doesn't mean that all violent people do it. Insider trading is illegal, does that mean all violent people do it?
I've known plenty of violent people who liked to smoke the herb.
I've known violent people who liked to drink coca-cola.
Because obviously an illegal controlled substance is equivalent to a soft drink, and I get handcuffed for having a cola in my car all the time.
Do you really want to carry this non sequitur further?
I don't see what being illegal has to do with being used by violent people. I say we handcuff everybody who is seen drinking beer because I know violent people who drink it.
If you guys really want to turn this into an anti cop circle jerk, just say so now and I'll let you guys compare how you're stickin it to da man.
Otherwise, let's deal with reality and accept that if you find drugs in a car, its probably a good idea to handcuff all involved until you do a search of a car so someone doesn't put a knife in your back.
So they will just put a knife into the front of you instead. I think it would be a better idea to not let them out of your sight.
Outside of Houdini like antics, how are they going to put a knife in the front of you if they're handcuffed and restrained?
It isn't that easy to put handcuffs on a person if that person doesn't want to and can easily pull out a knife.
You are making hte assumption that a person with illegal drugs is automatically more likely to attack than any other person who has broken any other law outside of minor traffic violations.
Your line of reasoning is essential: some violent people also use illegal drugs->therefore all people who use illegal drugs are more likely to be violent->it is OK to handcuff people being arrested for having illegal drugs because some violent people also use them. Handcuffing people breaking the law is understandable. It isn't understandable to handcuff them simply because the law they were breaking happens to involve illegal drugs.
I've known plenty of violent people who liked to smoke the herb.
I've known violent people who liked to drink coca-cola.
Because obviously an illegal controlled substance is equivalent to a soft drink, and I get handcuffed for having a cola in my car all the time.
Do you really want to carry this non sequitur further?
I don't see what being illegal has to do with being used by violent people. I say we handcuff everybody who is seen drinking beer because I know violent people who drink it.
If you guys really want to turn this into an anti cop circle jerk, just say so now and I'll let you guys compare how you're stickin it to da man.
Otherwise, let's deal with reality and accept that if you find drugs in a car, its probably a good idea to handcuff all involved until you do a search of a car so someone doesn't put a knife in your back.
So they will just put a knife into the front of you instead. I think it would be a better idea to not let them out of your sight.
Outside of Houdini like antics, how are they going to put a knife in the front of you if they're handcuffed and restrained?
It isn't that easy to put handcuffs on a person if that person doesn't want to and can easily pull out a knife.
Considering I do it for a living, its relatively easy to get handcuffs on the average person if they want to resist.
I've known plenty of violent people who liked to smoke the herb.
I've known violent people who liked to drink coca-cola.
Because obviously an illegal controlled substance is equivalent to a soft drink, and I get handcuffed for having a cola in my car all the time.
Do you really want to carry this non sequitur further?
I don't see what being illegal has to do with being used by violent people. I say we handcuff everybody who is seen drinking beer because I know violent people who drink it.
If you guys really want to turn this into an anti cop circle jerk, just say so now and I'll let you guys compare how you're stickin it to da man.
Otherwise, let's deal with reality and accept that if you find drugs in a car, its probably a good idea to handcuff all involved until you do a search of a car so someone doesn't put a knife in your back.
So they will just put a knife into the front of you instead. I think it would be a better idea to not let them out of your sight.
Outside of Houdini like antics, how are they going to put a knife in the front of you if they're handcuffed and restrained?
It isn't that easy to put handcuffs on a person if that person doesn't want to and can easily pull out a knife.
Considering I do it for a living, its relatively easy to get handcuffs on the average person if they want to resist.
The avarage person isn't violent.
Couscous on
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
edited June 2007
There is a Curfew for under 18's for the nightclub areas of perth.
Since we don't have underaged night clubs there is no point for teenagers to be in these areas. Especially since they usually are either A) trying to sneak into nightclubs or hanging round in groups trying to cause trouble.
I think curfews in these areas are reasonable as it also helps out the nightclubs in helping them make sure there are only 18+ people around.
Curfew laws are just bullshit ephebophobia. The law needs somebody to push around, and it's not okay to push around the blacks or the irish anymore, so they'll just push around adolescents. Teenagers aren't real people, anyway.
I've known plenty of violent people who liked to smoke the herb.
I've known violent people who liked to drink coca-cola.
Because obviously an illegal controlled substance is equivalent to a soft drink, and I get handcuffed for having a cola in my car all the time.
Do you really want to carry this non sequitur further?
I don't see what being illegal has to do with being used by violent people. I say we handcuff everybody who is seen drinking beer because I know violent people who drink it.
If you guys really want to turn this into an anti cop circle jerk, just say so now and I'll let you guys compare how you're stickin it to da man.
Otherwise, let's deal with reality and accept that if you find drugs in a car, its probably a good idea to handcuff all involved until you do a search of a car so someone doesn't put a knife in your back.
So they will just put a knife into the front of you instead. I think it would be a better idea to not let them out of your sight.
Outside of Houdini like antics, how are they going to put a knife in the front of you if they're handcuffed and restrained?
It isn't that easy to put handcuffs on a person if that person doesn't want to and can easily pull out a knife.
Considering I do it for a living, its relatively easy to get handcuffs on the average person if they want to resist.
The avarage person isn't violent.
Read the rest of the sentence and stop being so purposefully obtuse. The average resister is going to be easy to handcuff.
I think the curfew law is for kids who "FUCK DA ESTABLISHMUNT AND DA POLEESE" and all of that. It's not necessarily trying to keep them off the streets from vandalizing, but what fucking good are they doing roaming at 3 in the morning?
Right, except you're wrong. We were in the car, minding our own fucking business, and it was only 11:45 PM. Curfew is motherfucking 10:00 PM in LA county. Which, you know, is bullshit. I mean, seriously, you're not allowed to be in public past 10:00 PM if you're under 18, unless accompanied by a parent. Doesn't matter what you're doing, or where you're coming from, or where your going to, or if it's a weekend or not, and that's frankly bullshit.
Of course, it's not hugely enforced -- mostly it's just something that people use as excuse to harass/pull over kids. In my case, it was something that was only enforced because the local Homeowner's Association didn't want any kids to be on the streets around their homes past Ten, because god forbid they have a reputation as anything but a sterilized neighborhood, lest their property values drop. I mean, really, who the fuck is enough of a tightass to drive out to congratulate the arresting officers?
My point is that we were minding our own goddamn business, just sitting in a car, eating some tasty In 'N' Out burgers (I had two double-doubles, a cheesburger, fries, and shake. Delicious! ). I don't see how this is "FUCK DA ESTABLISHMUNT AND DA POLEESE." And it's frankly bullshit that I now am going to have to pay a ticket for being in public past a certain time. Which reminds me: anyone know how much these things go for? J-walking cost my friend $120 recently, so I figure this curfew ticket might really suck. $500, maybe?
Oh, and no one cares about the handcuffs. Not even me. It seems excessive for someone being ticked for curfew, but I mean, did we really have to turn it into a pointless e-pissing contest, guys?
Read the rest of the sentence and stop being so purposefully obtuse. The average resister is going to be easy to handcuff.
The average resister isn't going to have a knife on him or her. You handcuff people because they might be an unaverage person who might have a weapon on them.
Read the rest of the sentence and stop being so purposefully obtuse. The average resister is going to be easy to handcuff.
The average resister isn't going to have a knife on him or her. You handcuff people because they might be an unaverage person who might have a weapon on them.
You cuff people to control their movement. You don't want them running away, hitting you, or doing any other number of crazy stuff that they might do. It protects the officer and the restrained, so they don't end up on the wrong end of the bullet if they decide to freak out because they're scared the officer in question might find their baggie of weed.
Violent or no, cops put the handcuffs on people to protect themselves. They don't know who you are, they don't hang out with you all day. Just be happy they didn't bounce you off the hood of the police cruiser. :P
Violent or no, cops put the handcuffs on people to protect themselves. They don't know who you are, they don't hang out with you all day. Just be happy they didn't bounce you off the hood of the police cruiser. :P
I think the curfew law is for kids who "FUCK DA ESTABLISHMUNT AND DA POLEESE" and all of that. It's not necessarily trying to keep them off the streets from vandalizing, but what fucking good are they doing roaming at 3 in the morning?
Right, except you're wrong. We were in the car, minding our own fucking business, and it was only 11:45 PM. Curfew is motherfucking 10:00 PM in LA county. Which, you know, is bullshit. I mean, seriously, you're not allowed to be in public past 10:00 PM if you're under 18, unless accompanied by a parent. Doesn't matter what you're doing, or where you're coming from, or where your going to, or if it's a weekend or not, and that's frankly bullshit.
Of course, it's not hugely enforced -- mostly it's just something that people use as excuse to harass/pull over kids. In my case, it was something that was only enforced because the local Homeowner's Association didn't want any kids to be on the streets around their homes past Ten, because god forbid they have a reputation as anything but a sterilized neighborhood, lest their property values drop. I mean, really, who the fuck is enough of a tightass to drive out to congratulate the arresting officers?
My point is that we were minding our own goddamn business, just sitting in a car, eating some tasty In 'N' Out burgers (I had two double-doubles, a cheesburger, fries, and shake. Delicious! ). I don't see how this is "FUCK DA ESTABLISHMUNT AND DA POLEESE." And it's frankly bullshit that I now am going to have to pay a ticket for being in public past a certain time. Which reminds me: anyone know how much these things go for? J-walking cost my friend $120 recently, so I figure this curfew ticket might really suck. $500, maybe?
Oh, and no one cares about the handcuffs. Not even me. It seems excessive for someone being ticked for curfew, but I mean, did we really have to turn it into a pointless e-pissing contest, guys?
Well, dude they don't know who you are. He's just a guy looking out for his family and others, not his fault you guys fit the vague description of would-be-hoodlums, you know? Why do you have to go eat in a public place? Fucking stay at wherever and eat, go home and eat. You had weed on you, idiot and you're parking somewhere were there's security (you might not have known that at the time, but..)
They don't give a fuck what you're doing man. Like I said, a bad apple spoils the bunch. Just because you guys are supposedly so great for just sitting there, someone else could be planning to break into someones house or some shit. That's what the HOA guy was looking out for, not for people just having a good time.
The handcuff thing is so those fuckers don't pull something on the cop while whatever is going on. While not all people dealing with illegal substances or circumstances or violent; a lot of the time they are and "THEY AINT EVER GOING TO TAKE ME BACK!" and all of that jazz. You know, what fucking rights do you have anyhow if you're doing something ILLEGAL? What else have you done?
I don't mean this in a totalitarian way, people deserve their rights and all; but, you waiver some of those once you commit a crime.
Does anyone have any hard numbers on towns that use curfew laws? Sometimes numbers and statistics help.
Don't see why. How hard/well the law is enforced varies from town to town to city, then curfew times differ there as well. Here in my hell hole of about a few thousand, the curfew is midnight for under aged peoples. In Stillwater (twenty miles away, D1 college town) it's not until 3am, by then cops don't really try to bust people anyhow. Either place it's lax. in LA, it's the fucking lock down I guess.
Well, dude they don't know who you are. He's just a guy looking out for his family and others, not his fault you guys fit the vague description of would-be-hoodlums, you know?
Would you be saying this if it were two black men in a car rather than two young men in a car?
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
I think the curfew law is for kids who "FUCK DA ESTABLISHMUNT AND DA POLEESE" and all of that. It's not necessarily trying to keep them off the streets from vandalizing, but what fucking good are they doing roaming at 3 in the morning?
Right, except you're wrong. We were in the car, minding our own fucking business, and it was only 11:45 PM. Curfew is motherfucking 10:00 PM in LA county. Which, you know, is bullshit. I mean, seriously, you're not allowed to be in public past 10:00 PM if you're under 18, unless accompanied by a parent. Doesn't matter what you're doing, or where you're coming from, or where your going to, or if it's a weekend or not, and that's frankly bullshit.
Of course, it's not hugely enforced -- mostly it's just something that people use as excuse to harass/pull over kids. In my case, it was something that was only enforced because the local Homeowner's Association didn't want any kids to be on the streets around their homes past Ten, because god forbid they have a reputation as anything but a sterilized neighborhood, lest their property values drop. I mean, really, who the fuck is enough of a tightass to drive out to congratulate the arresting officers?
My point is that we were minding our own goddamn business, just sitting in a car, eating some tasty In 'N' Out burgers (I had two double-doubles, a cheesburger, fries, and shake. Delicious! ). I don't see how this is "FUCK DA ESTABLISHMUNT AND DA POLEESE." And it's frankly bullshit that I now am going to have to pay a ticket for being in public past a certain time. Which reminds me: anyone know how much these things go for? J-walking cost my friend $120 recently, so I figure this curfew ticket might really suck. $500, maybe?
Oh, and no one cares about the handcuffs. Not even me. It seems excessive for someone being ticked for curfew, but I mean, did we really have to turn it into a pointless e-pissing contest, guys?
Well, dude they don't know who you are. He's just a guy looking out for his family and others, not his fault you guys fit the vague description of would-be-hoodlums, you know? Why do you have to go eat in a public place? Fucking stay at wherever and eat, go home and eat. You had weed on you, idiot and you're parking somewhere were there's security (you might not have known that at the time, but..)
They don't give a fuck what you're doing man. Like I said, a bad apple spoils the bunch. Just because you guys are supposedly so great for just sitting there, someone else could be planning to break into someones house or some shit. That's what the HOA guy was looking out for, not for people just having a good time.
The handcuff thing is so those fuckers don't pull something on the cop while whatever is going on. While not all people dealing with illegal substances or circumstances or violent; a lot of the time they are and "THEY AINT EVER GOING TO TAKE ME BACK!" and all of that jazz. You know, what fucking rights do you have anyhow if you're doing something ILLEGAL? What else have you done?
I don't mean this in a totalitarian way, people deserve their rights and all; but, you waiver some of those once you commit a crime.
Does anyone have any hard numbers on towns that use curfew laws? Sometimes numbers and statistics help.
Don't see why. How hard/well the law is enforced varies from town to town to city, then curfew times differ there as well. Here in my hell hole of about a few thousand, the curfew is midnight for under aged peoples. In Stillwater (twenty miles away, D1 college town) it's not until 3am, by then cops don't really try to bust people anyhow. Either place it's lax. in LA, it's the fucking lock down I guess.
I didn't know it varied that much. Also, thinking about it, I doubt local PDs would keep crime statistics for things like that. I sorta remember the sheriff for Middlesex County, NJ publishing something about how curfews stopped some type of particular crime back around 2003 or so, but I can't find it anywhere, plus I'm kinda drunk.
I've known plenty of violent people who liked to smoke the herb.
I've known violent people who liked to drink coca-cola.
Because obviously an illegal controlled substance is equivalent to a soft drink, and I get handcuffed for having a cola in my car all the time.
Do you really want to carry this non sequitur further?
He's pointing out that there's no logical connection between marijuana use and violence any more than there is between coke drinking and violence. Your response is the non sequitur in this case. How do you not get that?
I don't mean this in a totalitarian way, people deserve their rights and all; but, you waiver some of those once you commit a crime.
Even if the so-called "crime" doesn't hurt anybody and is only illegal due to an arbitrary and unfair law?
I guess everything's hunky-dory, then. Citizens get no right to complain about the government and we should blindly accept and follow any law that is passed?
Sorry, but that is totalitarian.
Edit: Cat, exactly my point. Thank you.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Well, dude they don't know who you are. He's just a guy looking out for his family and others, not his fault you guys fit the vague description of would-be-hoodlums, you know? Why do you have to go eat in a public place? Fucking stay at wherever and eat, go home and eat. You had weed on you, idiot and you're parking somewhere were there's security (you might not have known that at the time, but..)
They don't give a fuck what you're doing man. Like I said, a bad apple spoils the bunch. Just because you guys are supposedly so great for just sitting there, someone else could be planning to break into someones house or some shit. That's what the HOA guy was looking out for, not for people just having a good time.
The handcuff thing is so those fuckers don't pull something on the cop while whatever is going on. While not all people dealing with illegal substances or circumstances or violent; a lot of the time they are and "THEY AINT EVER GOING TO TAKE ME BACK!" and all of that jazz. You know, what fucking rights do you have anyhow if you're doing something ILLEGAL? What else have you done?
I don't mean this in a totalitarian way, people deserve their rights and all; but, you waiver some of those once you commit a crime.
OP: You fucked up, get over it.
Los Angeles has an above-average crime rate. Therefore, let us arrest all the citizens of Los Angeles. The cop doesn't know any of these people; he's just trying to protect his family. It's not his fault Los Angelenos fit the description of would-be hoodlums. Bad apples spoil the bunch, you know. Just because some of them are so great for just living there, others could be planning to break into someone's house or some shit.
Hey, you fucked up by living in Los Angeles. Get over it.
Seriously, SoonerMan, this is literally the dumbest argument I've heard all year.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
Well, dude they don't know who you are. He's just a guy looking out for his family and others, not his fault you guys fit the vague description of would-be-hoodlums, you know?
Would you be saying this if it were two black men in a car rather than two young men in a car?
Yes, because then it stereotypically fits that description. There's a thin line between racism (read: stereotypes) and the truth. You're in a neighborhood you're not familiar with and you see some guy with his pants by his knees, baggy shirt, hat backwards, BLING ALL OVER DA PLACE and you're going to tell me you don't get a bit nervous?
Anymore you can't trust anyone; that's why the HOA guy was banking on. He missed this time, sure, but what if he gets lax about it and sees a car there next time. He wakes up to hear that someone's house had been broken into and a lot of shit stolen.
Well, dude they don't know who you are. He's just a guy looking out for his family and others, not his fault you guys fit the vague description of would-be-hoodlums, you know? Why do you have to go eat in a public place? Fucking stay at wherever and eat, go home and eat. You had weed on you, idiot and you're parking somewhere were there's security (you might not have known that at the time, but..)
They don't give a fuck what you're doing man. Like I said, a bad apple spoils the bunch. Just because you guys are supposedly so great for just sitting there, someone else could be planning to break into someones house or some shit. That's what the HOA guy was looking out for, not for people just having a good time.
The handcuff thing is so those fuckers don't pull something on the cop while whatever is going on. While not all people dealing with illegal substances or circumstances or violent; a lot of the time they are and "THEY AINT EVER GOING TO TAKE ME BACK!" and all of that jazz. You know, what fucking rights do you have anyhow if you're doing something ILLEGAL? What else have you done?
I don't mean this in a totalitarian way, people deserve their rights and all; but, you waiver some of those once you commit a crime.
OP: You fucked up, get over it.
Los Angeles has an above-average crime rate. Therefore, let us arrest all the citizens of Los Angeles. The cop doesn't know any of these people; he's just trying to protect his family. It's not his fault Los Angelenos fit the description of would-be hoodlums. Bad apples spoil the bunch, you know. Just because some of them are so great for just living there, others could be planning to break into someone's house or some shit.
Hey, you fucked up by living in Los Angeles. Get over it.
Seriously, SoonerMan, this is literally the dumbest argument I've heard all year.
How so? People were in a place they shouldn't have been, they were unrecognizable and had no business there. HOA guy goes by his gut, finds some potheads with the munchies and while they had no malicious intent to that community it teaches them to go eat your munchies elsewhere.
You find briefcase laying in a bathroom at a sporting event are you going to assume the best that some businessman came in suit and briefcase to the game or maybe think... ZOMG BOMB. Extreme, sure, but hopefully it'll illustrate my point better.
You find briefcase laying in a bathroom at a sporting event are you going to assume the best that some businessman came in suit and briefcase to the game or maybe think... ZOMG BOMB. Extreme, sure, but hopefully it'll illustrate my point better.
'Bomb' would never enter my mind in a million years. Not everything on Earth explodes. Jeepers.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
There's a thin line between racism (read: stereotypes) and the truth.
I'm done with you.
Then what was the point of asking me? If I saw two Chinese guys, Arabic, Caucasian or Mexican guys parked where I've never seen them before I'm going to wonder what the hell they're doing. What is the relevance of the two people being black?
Would you be saying this if it were two black men in a car rather than two young men in a car?
Yes, because then it stereotypically fits that description. There's a thin line between racism (read: stereotypes) and the truth. You're in a neighborhood you're not familiar with and you see some guy with his pants by his knees, baggy shirt, hat backwards, BLING ALL OVER DA PLACE and you're going to tell me you don't get a bit nervous?
Anymore you can't trust anyone; that's why the HOA guy was banking on. He missed this time, sure, but what if he gets lax about it and sees a car there next time. He wakes up to hear that someone's house had been broken into and a lot of shit stolen.
Skin color has nothing to do with it, personally.
Oh jesus, you went for it. I was seriously not expecting that. I am curious as to what crazy city you grew up in. Perhaps your neighborhood has security cameras too. You wouldn't want them black folk moving next door during the night. Then you'd have to move even farther away from the city.
RE: Curfew laws. I was not aware these existed except temporarily during crisis. It seems to me that it would be better to let kids congregate and hang out even at night in public rather than forcing them to hang out away from the eyes of police and adults. Forcing kids to hang out at parties because they can't hang out outside seems counterproductive.
I don't mean this in a totalitarian way, people deserve their rights and all; but, you waiver some of those once you commit a crime.
Even if the so-called "crime" doesn't hurt anybody and is only illegal due to an arbitrary and unfair law?
I guess everything's hunky-dory, then. Citizens get no right to complain about the government and we should blindly accept and follow any law that is passed?
Sorry, but that is totalitarian.
Edit: Cat, exactly my point. Thank you.
Well, you in particular actually can't complain because you're 17. You can't vote. But you can get involved, maybe get a petition going or something, raise awareness if it really matters that much to you. Then, when you're 18, vote for someone who will get rid of the curfew. If not, couldn't you run for office?
Look, you may not like a law, but obviously a vote went around at some point that essentially qualified this to happen, and it's a law that, in theory, was put in place by the people themselves, just like every single law we have, through our representatives or sometimes the citizens themselves. Those people put it in place because they thought it would help. So deal with it and pay the fine.
Would you be saying this if it were two black men in a car rather than two young men in a car?
Yes, because then it stereotypically fits that description. There's a thin line between racism (read: stereotypes) and the truth. You're in a neighborhood you're not familiar with and you see some guy with his pants by his knees, baggy shirt, hat backwards, BLING ALL OVER DA PLACE and you're going to tell me you don't get a bit nervous?
Anymore you can't trust anyone; that's why the HOA guy was banking on. He missed this time, sure, but what if he gets lax about it and sees a car there next time. He wakes up to hear that someone's house had been broken into and a lot of shit stolen.
Skin color has nothing to do with it, personally.
Oh jesus, you went for it. I was seriously not expecting that. I am curious as to what crazy city you grew up in. Perhaps your neighborhood has security cameras too. You wouldn't want them black folk moving next door during the night. Then you'd have to move even farther away from the city.
I'm not racist by any means, I know what its like to be discriminated against just because I'm of a darker skin color. Nevertheless, I still absentmindedly do shit like place people in stereotyped categories. Its unfortunate, but I would honestly be surprised if both you and Feral could say you've never thought something of someone of ethnicity because of some shit that recently happened on the news or some existing stance on those people you grew up with.
I've known plenty of violent people who liked to smoke the herb.
I've known violent people who liked to drink coca-cola.
Because obviously an illegal controlled substance is equivalent to a soft drink, and I get handcuffed for having a cola in my car all the time.
Do you really want to carry this non sequitur further?
He's pointing out that there's no logical connection between marijuana use and violence any more than there is between coke drinking and violence. Your response is the non sequitur in this case. How do you not get that?
The implied idea is that someone getting busted for weed is going to have legal consequences, including possibly jailtime, whereas someone who drinks Coke might get the silent judgement of a Pepsi fan, or perhaps rotten teeth. If you face an arrest, you have the option to resist arrest. A police officer can (and probably should) retard the chances of resistance, assumming this is to be for the greater good.
I can see making an argument that the OP actually justifies the idea of police-enforced curfew. You darned kids were out late with your dope and your hip-hop and rock & roll, after all. That said, I feel it's the parent's responsibility to enforce that sort of thing.
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
edited June 2007
Curfew law is fine, but 18 is a little old. Basically, parents want their children home at night, not wandering the streets... much less driving around smoking pot (which is a bad idea and I'm glad you got busted for it, Mr. OP man).
I think if you are old enough to drive, you ought to be old enough to be out and about at night.
I don't mean this in a totalitarian way, people deserve their rights and all; but, you waiver some of those once you commit a crime.
Even if the so-called "crime" doesn't hurt anybody and is only illegal due to an arbitrary and unfair law?
I guess everything's hunky-dory, then. Citizens get no right to complain about the government and we should blindly accept and follow any law that is passed?
Sorry, but that is totalitarian.
Edit: Cat, exactly my point. Thank you.
Well, you in particular actually can't complain because you're 17. You can't vote. But you can get involved, maybe get a petition going or something, raise awareness if it really matters that much to you. Then, when you're 18, vote for someone who will get rid of the curfew. If not, couldn't you run for office?
Actually I'm 28. Not that it matters. A 18-year-old might not be able to vote, but he still has freedom of speech as long as he has an open forum. Saying "you fucked up, get over it" dances around the issue: the law is unfair. That the law does exist does not imply that it should exist.
obviously a vote went around at some point that essentially qualified this to happen
I'm fresh out of shits to give. Persuading paranoid people to pass preposterous propositions to protect property has perennially been a picnic for perfidious politicians. It's been the basis of all kinds of prejudice and, well, bullshit for centuries. I pointed out a page ago that anti-curfew laws have no basis in reality, and the best anything can come up with in response is that two young guys in a car looks awfully suspicious. That may justify calling the cops to investigate, but that doesn't justify giving the guys an infraction just for being in a public place at the wrong time.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
I've known plenty of violent people who liked to smoke the herb.
I've known violent people who liked to drink coca-cola.
Because obviously an illegal controlled substance is equivalent to a soft drink, and I get handcuffed for having a cola in my car all the time.
Do you really want to carry this non sequitur further?
He's pointing out that there's no logical connection between marijuana use and violence any more than there is between coke drinking and violence. Your response is the non sequitur in this case. How do you not get that?
The implied idea is that someone getting busted for weed is going to have legal consequences, including possibly jailtime, whereas someone who drinks Coke might get the silent judgement of a Pepsi fan, or perhaps rotten teeth. If you face an arrest, you have the option to resist arrest. A police officer can (and probably should) retard the chances of resistance, assumming this is to be for the greater good.
I can see making an argument that the OP actually justifies the idea of police-enforced curfew. You darned kids were out late with your dope and your hip-hop and rock & roll, after all. That said, I feel it's the parent's responsibility to enforce that sort of thing.
Dude, you're also missing the point. I'm not saying one can't question the argument that pot users aren't violent, but SI plainly didn't even realise that that was what Feral was saying - that pot users aren't violent and that therefore handcuffing can't be justified on that basis. Because of that, his replies weren't making any sense and rapidly descended into his usual bitchy quote tree of 'you kids don't got no respect'.
Persuading paranoid people to pass preposterous propositions to protect property has perennially been a picnic for perfidious politicians.
Nice
Would you agree though, that there are certain areas where the crime rate is so high, and the regular police force stretched so thin, that despite the blow to our 'government given' freedoms, a curfew's benefits might outweigh the negatives? Im thinking of a city in the US where gangs run wild and innocent people get shot out in the street on a regular basis when they report crimes or just 'cause they got in the way.
Well, you in particular actually can't complain because you're 17. You can't vote. But you can get involved, maybe get a petition going or something, raise awareness if it really matters that much to you. Then, when you're 18, vote for someone who will get rid of the curfew. If not, couldn't you run for office?
Actually I'm 28. Not that it matters. A 18-year-old might not be able to vote, but he still has freedom of speech as long as he has an open forum. Saying "you fucked up, get over it" dances around the issue: the law is unfair. That the law does exist does not imply that it should exist.
obviously a vote went around at some point that essentially qualified this to happen
I'm fresh out of shits to give. Persuading paranoid people to pass preposterous propositions to protect property has perennially been a picnic for perfidious politicians. It's been the basis of all kinds of prejudice and, well, bullshit for centuries. I pointed out a page ago that anti-curfew laws have no basis in reality, and the best anything can come up with in response is that two young guys in a car looks awfully suspicious. That may justify calling the cops to investigate, but that doesn't justify giving the guys an infraction just for being in a public place at the wrong time.
You have yet to say why you don't do something about it, or haven't done something about it already. No one is stopping you from doing so. So do something.
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So they will just put a knife into the front of you instead. I think it would be a better idea to not let them out of your sight.
Outside of Houdini like antics, how are they going to put a knife in the front of you if they're handcuffed and restrained?
He's not saying anything against people who enforce the law against it. It's illegal and if you're caught with it, you're arrested, plain and simple. But being illegal doesn't mean that all violent people do it. Insider trading is illegal, does that mean all violent people do it?
It isn't that easy to put handcuffs on a person if that person doesn't want to and can easily pull out a knife.
You are making hte assumption that a person with illegal drugs is automatically more likely to attack than any other person who has broken any other law outside of minor traffic violations.
Your line of reasoning is essential: some violent people also use illegal drugs->therefore all people who use illegal drugs are more likely to be violent->it is OK to handcuff people being arrested for having illegal drugs because some violent people also use them. Handcuffing people breaking the law is understandable. It isn't understandable to handcuff them simply because the law they were breaking happens to involve illegal drugs.
Considering I do it for a living, its relatively easy to get handcuffs on the average person if they want to resist.
The avarage person isn't violent.
Since we don't have underaged night clubs there is no point for teenagers to be in these areas. Especially since they usually are either A) trying to sneak into nightclubs or
I think curfews in these areas are reasonable as it also helps out the nightclubs in helping them make sure there are only 18+ people around.
Satans..... hints.....
PokeCode: 3952 3495 1748
Unless it's war time, of course!
Electronic composer for hire.
Read the rest of the sentence and stop being so purposefully obtuse. The average resister is going to be easy to handcuff.
Right, except you're wrong. We were in the car, minding our own fucking business, and it was only 11:45 PM. Curfew is motherfucking 10:00 PM in LA county. Which, you know, is bullshit. I mean, seriously, you're not allowed to be in public past 10:00 PM if you're under 18, unless accompanied by a parent. Doesn't matter what you're doing, or where you're coming from, or where your going to, or if it's a weekend or not, and that's frankly bullshit.
Of course, it's not hugely enforced -- mostly it's just something that people use as excuse to harass/pull over kids. In my case, it was something that was only enforced because the local Homeowner's Association didn't want any kids to be on the streets around their homes past Ten, because god forbid they have a reputation as anything but a sterilized neighborhood, lest their property values drop. I mean, really, who the fuck is enough of a tightass to drive out to congratulate the arresting officers?
My point is that we were minding our own goddamn business, just sitting in a car, eating some tasty In 'N' Out burgers (I had two double-doubles, a cheesburger, fries, and shake. Delicious!
Oh, and no one cares about the handcuffs. Not even me. It seems excessive for someone being ticked for curfew, but I mean, did we really have to turn it into a pointless e-pissing contest, guys?
You cuff people to control their movement. You don't want them running away, hitting you, or doing any other number of crazy stuff that they might do. It protects the officer and the restrained, so they don't end up on the wrong end of the bullet if they decide to freak out because they're scared the officer in question might find their baggie of weed.
lol
PokeCode: 3952 3495 1748
Well, dude they don't know who you are. He's just a guy looking out for his family and others, not his fault you guys fit the vague description of would-be-hoodlums, you know? Why do you have to go eat in a public place? Fucking stay at wherever and eat, go home and eat. You had weed on you, idiot and you're parking somewhere were there's security (you might not have known that at the time, but..)
They don't give a fuck what you're doing man. Like I said, a bad apple spoils the bunch. Just because you guys are supposedly so great for just sitting there, someone else could be planning to break into someones house or some shit. That's what the HOA guy was looking out for, not for people just having a good time.
The handcuff thing is so those fuckers don't pull something on the cop while whatever is going on. While not all people dealing with illegal substances or circumstances or violent; a lot of the time they are and "THEY AINT EVER GOING TO TAKE ME BACK!" and all of that jazz. You know, what fucking rights do you have anyhow if you're doing something ILLEGAL? What else have you done?
I don't mean this in a totalitarian way, people deserve their rights and all; but, you waiver some of those once you commit a crime.
OP: You fucked up, get over it.
Don't see why. How hard/well the law is enforced varies from town to town to city, then curfew times differ there as well. Here in my hell hole of about a few thousand, the curfew is midnight for under aged peoples. In Stillwater (twenty miles away, D1 college town) it's not until 3am, by then cops don't really try to bust people anyhow. Either place it's lax. in LA, it's the fucking lock down I guess.
Would you be saying this if it were two black men in a car rather than two young men in a car?
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I didn't know it varied that much. Also, thinking about it, I doubt local PDs would keep crime statistics for things like that. I sorta remember the sheriff for Middlesex County, NJ publishing something about how curfews stopped some type of particular crime back around 2003 or so, but I can't find it anywhere, plus I'm kinda drunk.
He's pointing out that there's no logical connection between marijuana use and violence any more than there is between coke drinking and violence. Your response is the non sequitur in this case. How do you not get that?
Even if the so-called "crime" doesn't hurt anybody and is only illegal due to an arbitrary and unfair law?
I guess everything's hunky-dory, then. Citizens get no right to complain about the government and we should blindly accept and follow any law that is passed?
Sorry, but that is totalitarian.
Edit: Cat, exactly my point. Thank you.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I can just imagine him grinning and going "YEAH!" and holding the bag up like he's offering to roll the officer a joint.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Hey, you fucked up by living in Los Angeles. Get over it.
Seriously, SoonerMan, this is literally the dumbest argument I've heard all year.
Yes, because then it stereotypically fits that description. There's a thin line between racism (read: stereotypes) and the truth. You're in a neighborhood you're not familiar with and you see some guy with his pants by his knees, baggy shirt, hat backwards, BLING ALL OVER DA PLACE and you're going to tell me you don't get a bit nervous?
Anymore you can't trust anyone; that's why the HOA guy was banking on. He missed this time, sure, but what if he gets lax about it and sees a car there next time. He wakes up to hear that someone's house had been broken into and a lot of shit stolen.
Skin color has nothing to do with it, personally.
How so? People were in a place they shouldn't have been, they were unrecognizable and had no business there. HOA guy goes by his gut, finds some potheads with the munchies and while they had no malicious intent to that community it teaches them to go eat your munchies elsewhere.
You find briefcase laying in a bathroom at a sporting event are you going to assume the best that some businessman came in suit and briefcase to the game or maybe think... ZOMG BOMB. Extreme, sure, but hopefully it'll illustrate my point better.
I'm done with you.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Then what was the point of asking me? If I saw two Chinese guys, Arabic, Caucasian or Mexican guys parked where I've never seen them before I'm going to wonder what the hell they're doing. What is the relevance of the two people being black?
Oh jesus, you went for it. I was seriously not expecting that. I am curious as to what crazy city you grew up in. Perhaps your neighborhood has security cameras too. You wouldn't want them black folk moving next door during the night. Then you'd have to move even farther away from the city.
RE: Curfew laws. I was not aware these existed except temporarily during crisis. It seems to me that it would be better to let kids congregate and hang out even at night in public rather than forcing them to hang out away from the eyes of police and adults. Forcing kids to hang out at parties because they can't hang out outside seems counterproductive.
Well, you in particular actually can't complain because you're 17. You can't vote. But you can get involved, maybe get a petition going or something, raise awareness if it really matters that much to you. Then, when you're 18, vote for someone who will get rid of the curfew. If not, couldn't you run for office?
Look, you may not like a law, but obviously a vote went around at some point that essentially qualified this to happen, and it's a law that, in theory, was put in place by the people themselves, just like every single law we have, through our representatives or sometimes the citizens themselves. Those people put it in place because they thought it would help. So deal with it and pay the fine.
I'm not racist by any means, I know what its like to be discriminated against just because I'm of a darker skin color. Nevertheless, I still absentmindedly do shit like place people in stereotyped categories. Its unfortunate, but I would honestly be surprised if both you and Feral could say you've never thought something of someone of ethnicity because of some shit that recently happened on the news or some existing stance on those people you grew up with.
The implied idea is that someone getting busted for weed is going to have legal consequences, including possibly jailtime, whereas someone who drinks Coke might get the silent judgement of a Pepsi fan, or perhaps rotten teeth. If you face an arrest, you have the option to resist arrest. A police officer can (and probably should) retard the chances of resistance, assumming this is to be for the greater good.
I can see making an argument that the OP actually justifies the idea of police-enforced curfew. You darned kids were out late with your dope and your hip-hop and rock & roll, after all. That said, I feel it's the parent's responsibility to enforce that sort of thing.
I think if you are old enough to drive, you ought to be old enough to be out and about at night.
Actually I'm 28. Not that it matters. A 18-year-old might not be able to vote, but he still has freedom of speech as long as he has an open forum. Saying "you fucked up, get over it" dances around the issue: the law is unfair. That the law does exist does not imply that it should exist.
I'm fresh out of shits to give. Persuading paranoid people to pass preposterous propositions to protect property has perennially been a picnic for perfidious politicians. It's been the basis of all kinds of prejudice and, well, bullshit for centuries. I pointed out a page ago that anti-curfew laws have no basis in reality, and the best anything can come up with in response is that two young guys in a car looks awfully suspicious. That may justify calling the cops to investigate, but that doesn't justify giving the guys an infraction just for being in a public place at the wrong time.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Dude, you're also missing the point. I'm not saying one can't question the argument that pot users aren't violent, but SI plainly didn't even realise that that was what Feral was saying - that pot users aren't violent and that therefore handcuffing can't be justified on that basis. Because of that, his replies weren't making any sense and rapidly descended into his usual bitchy quote tree of 'you kids don't got no respect'.
Would you agree though, that there are certain areas where the crime rate is so high, and the regular police force stretched so thin, that despite the blow to our 'government given' freedoms, a curfew's benefits might outweigh the negatives? Im thinking of a city in the US where gangs run wild and innocent people get shot out in the street on a regular basis when they report crimes or just 'cause they got in the way.
You have yet to say why you don't do something about it, or haven't done something about it already. No one is stopping you from doing so. So do something.