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[LTTP] Suikoden

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Posts

  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    SimBen wrote: »
    Whoa, wait, Tsai just died in the new-and-improved major battle. Is he dead forever? Should I reload?

    (to clarify, he went down saying "I have failed...")

    Edit: Nevermind, guess he's alright, he's still around in the next battle.

    be VERY cautious there!

    People can indeed die in Major Battles and NOT come back.
    If they do, you fail the good ending!

    Klyka on
    SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
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  • SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    MY CASTLE IT'S BURNED D:

    SimBen on
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  • Atlus ParkerAtlus Parker Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    SimBen wrote: »
    Whoa, wait, Tsai just died in the new-and-improved major battle. Is he dead forever? Should I reload?

    (to clarify, he went down saying "I have failed...")

    Edit: Nevermind, guess he's alright, he's still around in the next battle.

    There's two different states your characters can be afflicted with. One is simply wounded, the other is mortally wounded. If your character becomes mortally wounded that's when they suffer permadeath.

    This can actually happen in I as well.

    Atlus Parker on
  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    SimBen wrote: »
    MY CASTLE IT'S BURNED D:

    THEY ARE IN YOUR CASTLE, BURNING YOUR STARS!!!!

    Klyka on
    SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
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  • Atlus ParkerAtlus Parker Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Klyka wrote: »
    SimBen wrote: »
    MY CASTLE IT'S BURNED D:

    THEY ARE IN YOUR CASTLE, BURNING YOUR STARS!!!!

    hey, i upgraded ur logs

    Atlus Parker on
  • polaris314polaris314 Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    polaris314 wrote: »
    polaris314 wrote: »
    Just restarted Suikoden I tonight.

    about 3:30 in, and just got the Castle.

    This thread has inspired a replay of my own, and I'm about at the same spot. :)

    Me three, except I'm not as far because I usually farm Marco's game for money before moving the story along.

    Haha, I had just barely enough to play once, and what happened? First throw out of bounds. I was so frustrated I moved on as soon as I could. :P

    Not that game, the shell game which is a guaranteed win every time.

    OH right, sorry about that, the other game was the last I played so it was freshest in my mind. I had a brain fart over the character's name.

    polaris314 on
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  • SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    So I just fought a gigantic two-headed snake for a freaking healing herb.

    *pwah pwah pwah pwawawawawah...*

    SimBen on
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  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    SimBen wrote: »
    So I just fought a gigantic two-headed snake for a freaking healing herb.

    *pwah pwah pwah pwawawawawah...*

    Isn't it great what you do for sick people?

    Now off to the big city!

    Klyka on
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  • HooraydiationHooraydiation Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    If you didn't learn that love and family are the greatest treasures of all, then you're going to have to play that segment again and again until the message sinks in.

    Hooraydiation on
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  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Oh, hey, a message about Suikoden II's war battles.

    They fucking suck. Seriously. You know that stats that are shown for ATK and DEF? Completely pointless. A unit with 2/2 can stand up to and take out a unit with 12/12. It's all random.

    Blackjack on
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    3DS: 1607-3034-6970
  • Atlus ParkerAtlus Parker Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    love and family are the greatest treasures of all

    What a load of bull. I thin the real message is that I can't stand using Zamza but he was one of the better party choices at this point.

    Atlus Parker on
  • SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    If you didn't learn that love and family are the greatest treasures of all, then you're going to have to play that segment again and again until the message sinks in.

    What? I thought the message was that every ancient civilization LOVES its geometrical crests.

    SimBen on
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  • HooraydiationHooraydiation Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    love and family are the greatest treasures of all

    What a load of bull. I thin the real message is that I can't stand using Zamza but he was one of the better party choices at this point.

    Getting stuck with Mukumuku at that point was awful. I gave him a Fire Rune towards the end in hopes of it making him more useful, but somehow he managed to KO himself with his own magic.

    Hooraydiation on
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  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Man, the very beginning is the only time Mukumuku is useful.

    Blackjack on
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  • HooraydiationHooraydiation Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    At the very least, getting him at the beginning saves you the trouble of having to get flying squirrels the hard way.

    Hooraydiation on
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  • SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    I like how Mukumuku just sort of hangs out at the beginning, gets thrown in jail and breaks out with Nanami, all without saying a word. And no one goes WTF IT'S A SQUIRREL WITH A CAPE. He's just like chill, I'm gonna bounce on top of your head yo.

    SimBen on
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  • SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Aww, Jowy wishes he'd had some love in his family, and maybe blood ties don't matter as much as caring for one another!

    GEE YOU THINK MAYBE THIS WILL BE ONE OF THE PLOT'S MAIN THEMES?

    SimBen on
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  • BremenBremen Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    SimBen wrote: »
    Aww, Jowy wishes he'd had some love in his family, and maybe blood ties don't matter as much as caring for one another!

    GEE YOU THINK MAYBE THIS WILL BE ONE OF THE PLOT'S MAIN THEMES?

    I could say something here, but I don't want to spoil anything.

    Bremen on
  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Bremen wrote: »
    SimBen wrote: »
    Aww, Jowy wishes he'd had some love in his family, and maybe blood ties don't matter as much as caring for one another!

    GEE YOU THINK MAYBE THIS WILL BE ONE OF THE PLOT'S MAIN THEMES?

    I could say something here, but I don't want to spoil anything.

    I will!
    I'm gonna go ahead and say that anyone that didn't see Jowy's betrayal coming was not paying anything that approached attention to the game.

    Blackjack on
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    3DS: 1607-3034-6970
  • StollsStolls Brave Corporate Logo Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Blackjack wrote: »
    Bremen wrote: »
    SimBen wrote: »
    Aww, Jowy wishes he'd had some love in his family, and maybe blood ties don't matter as much as caring for one another!

    GEE YOU THINK MAYBE THIS WILL BE ONE OF THE PLOT'S MAIN THEMES?

    I could say something here, but I don't want to spoil anything.

    I will!
    I'm gonna go ahead and say that anyone that didn't see Jowy's betrayal coming was not paying anything that approached attention to the game.

    Related inquiry regarding that spoiler:
    Am I alone in thinking that he goes from trusted friend to murderous traitor really damn fast, and under highly dubious circumstances? That part of the game never sat well with me, and for all the wrong reasons.

    Stolls on
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  • BremenBremen Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Stolls wrote: »
    Am I alone in thinking that he goes from trusted friend to murderous traitor really damn fast, and under highly dubious circumstances? That part of the game never sat well with me, and for all the wrong reasons.


    Very big spoiler for anyone that hasn't finished the game.
    It's a common misunderstanding. He's a traitor to the state, yes, but you and Jowy have been in the state for all of a few days and are citizens of an enemy nation, so traitor isn't the best word here. He's not betraying your friendship or anything, he just wants to stop Luca and the war, and doesn't think the state could do it on its own (for obvious reasons). Note that even later on he stays true to your friendship (helping you escape in Greenhill, for instance). Both you and Jowy have the same goals and desires, you just take different routes.

    Bremen on
  • StollsStolls Brave Corporate Logo Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Bremen wrote: »
    Stolls wrote: »
    Am I alone in thinking that he goes from trusted friend to murderous traitor really damn fast, and under highly dubious circumstances? That part of the game never sat well with me, and for all the wrong reasons.


    Very big spoiler for anyone that hasn't finished the game.
    It's a common misunderstanding. He's a traitor to the state, yes, but you and Jowy have been in the state for all of a few days and are citizens of an enemy nation, so traitor isn't the best word here. He's not betraying your friendship or anything, he just wants to stop Luca and the war, and doesn't think the state could do it on its own (for obvious reasons). Note that even later on he stays true to your friendship (helping you escape in Greenhill, for instance). Both you and Jowy have the same goals and desires, you just take different routes.
    JUST AS PLANNED

    ...yeah, I know that's how it's supposed to look. It just doesn't. It looks like Jowy agreed to murder a head of state and sabotage their war effort, endangering his so-called best friends and a defenseless, traumatized child supposedly in his care, and conceived an unbelievably roundabout way of nixing the guy who wanted to butcher him to concoct a war so he, Jowy, could assume absolute authority and stomp the state into nothingness; literally ending the war by continuing the war.

    All that from one fucking afternoon of imprisonment. That's what I don't believe. He set all this up in exactly five minutes of game time, or he agreed to this complicated, risky, morally dubious and far-fetched plan in same. I know that's how it happens, and I could maybe buy that if they just gave it more time. It felt rushed, and that's putting it lightly.

    Stolls on
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  • Atlus ParkerAtlus Parker Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Stolls wrote: »
    Bremen wrote: »
    Stolls wrote: »
    Am I alone in thinking that he goes from trusted friend to murderous traitor really damn fast, and under highly dubious circumstances? That part of the game never sat well with me, and for all the wrong reasons.


    Very big spoiler for anyone that hasn't finished the game.
    It's a common misunderstanding. He's a traitor to the state, yes, but you and Jowy have been in the state for all of a few days and are citizens of an enemy nation, so traitor isn't the best word here. He's not betraying your friendship or anything, he just wants to stop Luca and the war, and doesn't think the state could do it on its own (for obvious reasons). Note that even later on he stays true to your friendship (helping you escape in Greenhill, for instance). Both you and Jowy have the same goals and desires, you just take different routes.
    JUST AS PLANNED

    ...yeah, I know that's how it's supposed to look. It just doesn't. It looks like Jowy agreed to murder a head of state and sabotage their war effort, endangering his so-called best friends and a defenseless, traumatized child supposedly in his care, and conceived an unbelievably roundabout way of nixing the guy who wanted to butcher him to concoct a war so he, Jowy, could assume absolute authority and stomp the state into nothingness; literally ending the war by continuing the war.

    All that from one fucking afternoon of imprisonment. That's what I don't believe. He set all this up in exactly five minutes of game time, or he agreed to this complicated, risky, morally dubious and far-fetched plan in same. I know that's how it happens, and I could maybe buy that if they just gave it more time. It felt rushed, and that's putting it lightly.
    How much of it was Jowy's plan and how much of it was Leon's? That is the question to ask.

    Atlus Parker on
  • BremenBremen Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Stolls wrote: »
    JUST AS PLANNED

    ...yeah, I know that's how it's supposed to look. It just doesn't. It looks like Jowy agreed to murder a head of state and sabotage their war effort, endangering his so-called best friends and a defenseless, traumatized child supposedly in his care, and conceived an unbelievably roundabout way of nixing the guy who wanted to butcher him to concoct a war so he, Jowy, could assume absolute authority and stomp the state into nothingness; literally ending the war by continuing the war.

    All that from one fucking afternoon of imprisonment. That's what I don't believe. He set all this up in exactly five minutes of game time, or he agreed to this complicated, risky, morally dubious and far-fetched plan in same. I know that's how it happens, and I could maybe buy that if they just gave it more time. It felt rushed, and that's putting it lightly.
    You're assuming WAY too much about his plans. He just wanted to stop the war and (ideally) kill Luca Blight. Since he didn't see the state doing that, the only other choice he saw was to join Highland and stop the war that way. You also have this idea that he was convinced/brainwashed/tortured into this while he was imprisoned, which is false. In one of the Suikogaiden games your character breaks him out of the highland camp, Jowy later decides (after the state is unable to rally together) that the only chance to stop the war is to join highland and achieve a bloodless victory (remember greenhill and him trying to make you sign a surrender at arrowpoint?)

    I sure hope Sim doesn't read any of these spoilers.

    Bremen on
  • StollsStolls Brave Corporate Logo Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Bremen wrote: »
    Stolls wrote: »
    JUST AS PLANNED

    ...yeah, I know that's how it's supposed to look. It just doesn't. It looks like Jowy agreed to murder a head of state and sabotage their war effort, endangering his so-called best friends and a defenseless, traumatized child supposedly in his care, and conceived an unbelievably roundabout way of nixing the guy who wanted to butcher him to concoct a war so he, Jowy, could assume absolute authority and stomp the state into nothingness; literally ending the war by continuing the war.

    All that from one fucking afternoon of imprisonment. That's what I don't believe. He set all this up in exactly five minutes of game time, or he agreed to this complicated, risky, morally dubious and far-fetched plan in same. I know that's how it happens, and I could maybe buy that if they just gave it more time. It felt rushed, and that's putting it lightly.
    You're assuming WAY too much about his plans. He just wanted to stop the war and (ideally) kill Luca Blight. Since he didn't see the state doing that, the only other choice he saw was to join Highland and stop the war that way. You also have this idea that he was convinced/brainwashed/tortured into this while he was imprisoned, which is false. In one of the Suikogaiden games your character breaks him out of the highland camp, Jowy later decides (after the state is unable to rally together) that the only chance to stop the war is to join highland and achieve a bloodless victory (remember greenhill and him trying to make you sign a surrender at arrowpoint?)

    I sure hope Sim doesn't read any of these spoilers.
    I'm assuming nothing, I'm just saying the timeframe is screwed up no matter how Jowy agreed to the plans, because he agreed to them in a matter of hours. If I'm to at all believe he's not a heartless bastard who left his friends to certain doom and (without obvious reservation) became an assassin-slash-saboteur, then I have to believe he's had time to consider the ramifications of his actions. Brainwashing has nothing to do with it; I just don't believe Leon had time to even explain his plan to Jowy, much less convince him to play a part in it, and even less work a would-be corpse from the Unicorn Brigade, who they planned to sacrifice anyway, plausibly into their war effort. What, did Leon have his Big Book of Backstabbing for Young POWs just lying around?

    And if we're going on the theory that Jowy wasn't convinced by the enemy to do this, then we run into even more problems, not the least of which is his communication with that ninja (Kage?) before the surprise attack on Muse. It's pretty clear that he was doing what he was told to do, and if he came up with this all on his own then that's even sloppier.

    To reiterate: there was not enough time to believably sell this as part of the plot. That's my objection.

    Stolls on
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  • BremenBremen Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Stolls wrote: »
    I'm assuming nothing, I'm just saying the timeframe is screwed up no matter how Jowy agreed to the plans, because he agreed to them in a matter of hours. If I'm to at all believe he's not a heartless bastard who left his friends to certain doom and (without obvious reservation) became an assassin-slash-saboteur, then I have to believe he's had time to consider the ramifications of his actions. Brainwashing has nothing to do with it; I just don't believe Leon had time to even explain his plan to Jowy, much less convince him to play a part in it, and even less work a would-be corpse from the Unicorn Brigade, who they planned to sacrifice anyway, plausibly into their war effort. What, did Leon have his Big Book of Backstabbing for Young POWs just lying around?

    And if we're going on the theory that Jowy wasn't convinced by the enemy to do this, then we run into even more problems, not the least of which is his communication with that ninja (Kage?) before the surprise attack on Muse. It's pretty clear that he was doing what he was told to do, and if he came up with this all on his own then that's even sloppier.

    To reiterate: there was not enough time to believably sell this as part of the plot. That's my objection.
    I'm not saying he didn't communicate with the enemy, or that they didn't suggest he switch sides while he was a prisoner, just that the decision to do so came after days of seeing the city-state's weakness. I doubt he'd even met Leon at this point. And don't forget the battle for muse took days or even weeks, and he spent some of that time in the field. Plenty of opportunity for him to communicate with the enemy and come up with the plan.

    As far as endangering Riou and Nanami, I don't remember well, but didn't he try and caution both of you?

    Bremen on
  • ManetherenWolfManetherenWolf Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    SimBen wrote: »
    Whoa, wait, Tsai just died in the new-and-improved major battle. Is he dead forever? Should I reload?

    (to clarify, he went down saying "I have failed...")

    Edit: Nevermind, guess he's alright, he's still around in the next battle.

    There's two different states your characters can be afflicted with. One is simply wounded, the other is mortally wounded. If your character becomes mortally wounded that's when they suffer permadeath.

    This can actually happen in I as well.

    Yeah...


    I learned that the hard way on my first playthrough.

    I managed to get Luc killed in a major battle permanently. and saved afterwards (I didnt realize it could perma death).

    Got to the 108th star slot... and found out I couldnt get them all since I lost Luc.

    ...Immediately restarted the game and sped through it to get all of them.

    ManetherenWolf on
  • StollsStolls Brave Corporate Logo Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Bremen wrote: »
    Stolls wrote: »
    I'm assuming nothing, I'm just saying the timeframe is screwed up no matter how Jowy agreed to the plans, because he agreed to them in a matter of hours. If I'm to at all believe he's not a heartless bastard who left his friends to certain doom and (without obvious reservation) became an assassin-slash-saboteur, then I have to believe he's had time to consider the ramifications of his actions. Brainwashing has nothing to do with it; I just don't believe Leon had time to even explain his plan to Jowy, much less convince him to play a part in it, and even less work a would-be corpse from the Unicorn Brigade, who they planned to sacrifice anyway, plausibly into their war effort. What, did Leon have his Big Book of Backstabbing for Young POWs just lying around?

    And if we're going on the theory that Jowy wasn't convinced by the enemy to do this, then we run into even more problems, not the least of which is his communication with that ninja (Kage?) before the surprise attack on Muse. It's pretty clear that he was doing what he was told to do, and if he came up with this all on his own then that's even sloppier.

    To reiterate: there was not enough time to believably sell this as part of the plot. That's my objection.
    I'm not saying he didn't communicate with the enemy, or that they didn't suggest he switch sides while he was a prisoner, just that the decision to do so came after days of seeing the city-state's weakness. I doubt he'd even met Leon at this point. And don't forget the battle for muse took days or even weeks, and he spent some of that time in the field. Plenty of opportunity for him to communicate with the enemy and come up with the plan.

    As far as endangering Riou and Nanami, I don't remember well, but didn't he try and caution both of you?
    Communication would be possible, sure, but bear in mind he was out of the camp the same day, meaning somebody high up had to have been sizing him up for their own plans pretty much right away. Why release him if they didn't believe he was a team player? What'd they do, give him a business card and go, "If you change your mind, just leave a message with the ninja."? If Leon was half as shrewd as he's made out to be, he wouldn't have taken that kind of risk unless it wasn't that risky, for whatever reason.

    I don't know, it just didn't sit well with me. Too many people hinging their plans on a mentally stressed young man with obvious conflicts of interest and in too short a period of time. Given a full-on siege that lasted months, or even a few days of imprisonment when it became clear that nobody was going to save him, maybe I could see Jowy cracking and joining with Leon's group. As-is... sorry, but it feels rushed, and undermines what should be one of the more important parts of the story.

    Stolls on
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  • BremenBremen Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Stolls wrote: »
    Communication would be possible, sure, but bear in mind he was out of the camp the same day, meaning somebody high up had to have been sizing him up for their own plans pretty much right away. Why release him if they didn't believe he was a team player? What'd they do, give him a business card and go, "If you change your mind, just leave a message with the ninja."? If Leon was half as shrewd as he's made out to be, he wouldn't have taken that kind of risk unless it wasn't that risky, for whatever reason.

    I don't know, it just didn't sit well with me. Too many people hinging their plans on a mentally stressed young man with obvious conflicts of interest and in too short a period of time. Given a full-on siege that lasted months, or even a few days of imprisonment when it became clear that nobody was going to save him, maybe I could see Jowy cracking and joining with Leon's group. As-is... sorry, but it feels rushed, and undermines what should be one of the more important parts of the story.
    Like I said, they didn't let him go. Nash broke him out (alternately, if you choose not to do so in the game, Jillia does). And I'm sure it wasn't their original plan, more likely their plan was for Kage to do so. When Jowy decided to turn, they had him do it as a way of proving his loyalty. Of course, that's all speculation.

    Bremen on
  • KreutzKreutz Blackwater Park, IARegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    I managed to get Luc killed in a major battle permanently. and saved afterwards (I didnt realize it could perma death).
    Spoilers beyond S2:
    Wow, that's really gotta fuck up the story for S3...maybe Sasarai has another clone, then?

    jk

    Kreutz on
  • Cilla BlackCilla Black Priscilla!!! Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Blackjack wrote: »
    Oh, hey, a message about Suikoden II's war battles.

    They fucking suck. Seriously. You know that stats that are shown for ATK and DEF? Completely pointless. A unit with 2/2 can stand up to and take out a unit with 12/12. It's all random.
    Yeah. Suikoden I is the only one of the series (dunno about V) with decent war battles, and you can't really mess up rock/paper/scissors.

    Rest of the game is gold though.

    Cilla Black on
  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Bremen wrote: »
    Stolls wrote: »
    Am I alone in thinking that he goes from trusted friend to murderous traitor really damn fast, and under highly dubious circumstances? That part of the game never sat well with me, and for all the wrong reasons.


    Very big spoiler for anyone that hasn't finished the game.
    It's a common misunderstanding. He's a traitor to the state, yes, but you and Jowy have been in the state for all of a few days and are citizens of an enemy nation, so traitor isn't the best word here. He's not betraying your friendship or anything, he just wants to stop Luca and the war, and doesn't think the state could do it on its own (for obvious reasons). Note that even later on he stays true to your friendship (helping you escape in Greenhill, for instance). Both you and Jowy have the same goals and desires, you just take different routes.
    I'd go for that, up until you kill Luca. Luca was dead. The war could have been over. Jowy decided that he wanted to make Highland one giant country, and get rid of the City-States. Sure you could argue he did that so there would be no/less war in the future, but he definitely betrayed Riou to do it.

    Blackjack on
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  • mynameisguidomynameisguido Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Kreutz wrote: »
    I managed to get Luc killed in a major battle permanently. and saved afterwards (I didnt realize it could perma death).
    Spoilers beyond S2:
    Wow, that's really gotta fuck up the story for S3...maybe Sasarai has another clone, then?

    jk

    Sorta spoilers for I-III
    One of the stranger things about going backwards in Suikoden was seeing Luc become less and less prominent in the game. In II I was like, oh cool, Luc fights with me in this one. That's neat I guess.
    And then in 1 I get Luc again and basically all he does is stand by the tablet. But I could imagine how awesome it would be if you had gone in the correct order--- to see a seemingly insignificant person from I turn into what he became in III.

    mynameisguido on
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  • SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Guh, look at you guys all talking behind closed doors about stuff I can't have access to yet.

    SimBen on
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  • LockeColeLockeCole Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Zilla84 wrote: »
    Blackjack wrote: »
    Oh, hey, a message about Suikoden II's war battles.

    They fucking suck. Seriously. You know that stats that are shown for ATK and DEF? Completely pointless. A unit with 2/2 can stand up to and take out a unit with 12/12. It's all random.
    Yeah. Suikoden I is the only one of the series (dunno about V) with decent war battles, and you can't really mess up rock/paper/scissors.

    Rest of the game is gold though.

    Especially when its Rock/paper/scissors and one of your team types tells you what the enemy is going to pick :rotate: Also, a lot of those battles have really basic patterns.

    LockeCole on
  • tehmarkentehmarken BrooklynRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    I almost feel ashamed for saying this,
    but this thread reminds me I never finished Suikoden or FF6

    tehmarken on
  • StollsStolls Brave Corporate Logo Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Bremen wrote: »
    Stolls wrote: »
    Communication would be possible, sure, but bear in mind he was out of the camp the same day, meaning somebody high up had to have been sizing him up for their own plans pretty much right away. Why release him if they didn't believe he was a team player? What'd they do, give him a business card and go, "If you change your mind, just leave a message with the ninja."? If Leon was half as shrewd as he's made out to be, he wouldn't have taken that kind of risk unless it wasn't that risky, for whatever reason.

    I don't know, it just didn't sit well with me. Too many people hinging their plans on a mentally stressed young man with obvious conflicts of interest and in too short a period of time. Given a full-on siege that lasted months, or even a few days of imprisonment when it became clear that nobody was going to save him, maybe I could see Jowy cracking and joining with Leon's group. As-is... sorry, but it feels rushed, and undermines what should be one of the more important parts of the story.
    Like I said, they didn't let him go. Nash broke him out (alternately, if you choose not to do so in the game, Jillia does). And I'm sure it wasn't their original plan, more likely their plan was for Kage to do so. When Jowy decided to turn, they had him do it as a way of proving his loyalty. Of course, that's all speculation.
    So noted, but if they can't bother to explain or even suggest something like that in the course of the game, that's their problem. And I still say it's not enough time for both Jowy's change of heart and for Leon to set things up, considering what this plan would require Jowy to do, and what it would require of others who would've had him killed twice over. How he kept a straight face in Luca's presence considering he was about to run Pilika through while laughing about it is way beyond me.

    Like I said earlier, this game still kicks copious amounts of ass, as it's basically Suikoden Plus. That one point still sticks out in my memory as being poorly handled, however.

    Stolls on
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  • ReiRei New YorkRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Reading through this thread and seeing SimBen's excitement with playing I and II gets me all nostalgic for when I first played them, oh the joyous memories. Then I realized that playing through V pretty much gave me that exact same joy, minus the nostalgia. I powered through the 50+ hours of the game in about two weeks, not because I wanted to finish it quickly but because I just couldn't stop playing. I don't remember much of III but I remember not enjoying it as much as the first two, and IV is bothering me in all sorts of ways already. But V was gold again. Now to pray and hope for VI to be announced.

    Rei on
  • Atlus ParkerAtlus Parker Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Every time I hear Kirkis say "After Returning From Dwarve's Village" it cracks me up. I either imagine him talking to himself in an announcer's voice or as an actor who's reading the setting part of a script.

    Atlus Parker on
  • ReiRei New YorkRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Every time I hear Kirkis say "After Returning From Dwarve's Village" it cracks me up. I either imagine him talking to himself in an announcer's voice or as an actor who's reading the setting part of a script.

    Imagine it as the narrator from the Superfriends, I just had a good laugh.

    Rei on
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