No, because then you get the fifth type of quest. WoW's escort quests. I hate them with a burning passion.
What I would like to see is more story-telling. I have heard about how WoW reinvented the quest wheel when it came out (this may be biased information from some of my friends), but how hard is it to involve a player in the environment through quests? I'm not asking for stuff on par with a single-player game, but for you to at least give us a mission to accomplish. I'd rather there be alot more involved/open-ended style quests. You know, like halt the advance of this regiment. Which could be solved by three different things, (assuming a static camped for the night type thing) setting all their horses free, assassinate their commander, or give them some forged orders. Maybe even have the quest repeatable with the different objectives.
So, just a streamlining of the same old? Isn't that too low an ambition level?
Worked very, very well for WoW.
We are talking about innovation though, not how to create the biggest cash cow.
It's a cash cow because tons of people enjoy it...
It's not like they threw together some crap they though people would like and called it a day. Anyone who says WoW's devs don't put any time or love into it are blinded by.... I dunno. Something that blinds you. Mace?
It is successful because it is enjoyable. I realize plenty disagree, but obviously quite a few think it's good times. Myself included. Why not improve on what's already been tried and tested? Isn't that what WoW did in the first place?
So, just a streamlining of the same old? Isn't that too low an ambition level?
Worked very, very well for WoW.
We are talking about innovation though, not how to create the biggest cash cow.
It's a cash cow because tons of people enjoy it...
It's not like they threw together some crap they though people would like and called it a day. Anyone who says WoW's devs don't put any time or love into it are blinded by.... I dunno. Something that blinds you. Mace?
It is successful because it is enjoyable. I realize plenty disagree, but obviously quite a few think it's good times. Myself included. Why not improve on what's already been tried and tested? Isn't that what WoW did in the first place?
Exactly. I enjoy the small, recognizable, steps towards something greater. Once in a while I like to dive into something completely alien and learn that too, but this will turn off many new players. There's a reason that WoW feels like EQ 2.0 which feels like UO 2.0 etc. because it makes complete sense to grab the other game's demographic, streamline things, and grab even more players.
This is wild speculation: Warhammer will be the next thing people will flock to (it won't dethrone WoW, but it is the PvP WoW 1.5) and it's just a streamlined current-gen MMO that will be recognizable and fun.
EDIT: Of course, with unlimited resources, a next-gen MMO could be designed to be fun as well, and not just streamlined.
So, just a streamlining of the same old? Isn't that too low an ambition level?
Worked very, very well for WoW.
We are talking about innovation though, not how to create the biggest cash cow.
It's a cash cow because tons of people enjoy it...
It's not like they threw together some crap they though people would like and called it a day. Anyone who says WoW's devs don't put any time or love into it are blinded by.... I dunno. Something that blinds you. Mace?
It is successful because it is enjoyable. I realize plenty disagree, but obviously quite a few think it's good times. Myself included. Why not improve on what's already been tried and tested? Isn't that what WoW did in the first place?
Nothing to argue with here. WoW is the "best" of the current MMO model, and very successful. But this thread is, specifically, MMORPG innovation, which WoW is not.
Ok, i will trow my idea in pieces because is not really simple, and because i want to see and answer the feedback.
The first idea is about crafting, i fell that crafting in actual MMO's are failed, because in the end you do not create anything (nothing that you can say that you created) well, maybe second life but we cannot call this crafting...
So, first we have to think what brings a player to (try) to be a crafter.
To me, there two main things.
The first is the need to create something, let's call those creative crafters
The second is the complex process of crafting, let's call those researcher crafters
The third is just for the social part, those we will call seller crafters (and those i will not discuss now, because they are well served nowadays, to some extent)
So, there this three main needs, create something unique with your mark and some kind of possibility of a complex system, and a coll marketing system.
For the first one, would be necessary some-kind of engine that let you change the apparency
of what you make, and a result that differs based on your skills. (this represent two subsets of this kind of crafter)
For the second one, would be necessary a complex system into crafting
The problem is, this complex system would be like just to researchers crafters and be boring to the rest? No.
Because can be made a crafting system that on a first layer you have a really complex system, on a second layer you have a less complex system and in a third layer a semi automatic (read, nowadays crafting) system
So researcher would work on the first layer, creativities on the second and sellers on the third.
I will on the next post talk about each of these layers.
Yes... English is not my first language... I learned it not from a English class but from RPG games.
Ok, so the first layer is the most complex (in some ways) and is directed to researcher crafters.
From now on i will call those just researchers, because they will craft, but they main goal is to creat blueprints, yes, that is the idea, the first layers will create those well know blueprints that make the automatic stuff.
So, to this work this layer of the system would require real analysis and study from the player.
To this, the first part is that all items and resources would have attributes, and not direct attributes but indirect ones.
So, a metal resource could have hardness and this can affect a crafted item in various ways.
A sword would have sharpness and this would affect fr example cutting damage.
Okay, this part looks like just a difference in naming, but there is more.
First, let's start with resources, player could create new resources using base ones.
The can for example fuse two metals, and the system would calculate the results in a intelligent way based on this resource stats.
You will have to study this stats, and the way you can change the resource, for example, to fuse the metals you would have to melt both, but you have to see the melting point and see if you really can do this, if you cant you have to use other way around or give up.
And, even the melting point would change, for example, a metal that have high melting point could be use to resist fire, but also would be harder do craft because you need to melt metal to craft on this. (at least is one of the basic process)
And them, after trying different materials and process (there would be a lot of refining process) you can take this new resource and write up what is needed to make the resource, and with this you will create a blueprint.
You can then register the blueprint and sell it.(you can make copies too)
The same applies to item crafting, but now you would have another kind of sub-system.
You have to choose form a list of options, and then the base materials.
For example, you want to make a sword with a new resource.
First you would have to choose the sword research (crafting new blueprints is called research)
There you would have some base types of sword, if it's possibly, the player can even modify the base type of sword (or even, modify a base weapon type) i don't have tough in a real way to do this modification(yet), but is not impossible.
But maybe, you can assemble parts, and those parts would be part of groups.
For example, you first say that would use a hilt, and you can choose form a subsets of hilt types (and it's materials).
Choosing the base and material, you can change some stats, like height and diameter. (like i sayd, is complex)
The you choose a blade, and do the same process.
Now you have a sword, you also can choose a base sword type and modify it (or not, if you just want try i new material)
After you create anything, it's a good idea to make some tests (and would be ways to do it that is not really using it, and then you would extract the stats)
And as you see, is kind a scientific process, you Analise, you choose, you do try and error, you test
After all this, like i said, you would have the item you have make and the blueprint, that is the main objective of this layer.
Ah... Maybe i will back on this topic later, the next one is the second layer...
Just to give a "preview", the second layer will use the blueprint created in the first part, but will modify it appearance, and small modifications like using a magical gem, enhancing and tempering. (but will aways do the same basic item) this will created a second kind of blueprint, called full process blueprint, is just have the materials and skills and use the FPBP and then you would have a new item. (and a FPBP would be used sometimes to the third layer, but this layer would have better results just buying items created in the second layer, but the FPBP helps in mass production of more generic items)
Yes... English is not my first language... I learned it not from a English class but from RPG games.
Posts
What I would like to see is more story-telling. I have heard about how WoW reinvented the quest wheel when it came out (this may be biased information from some of my friends), but how hard is it to involve a player in the environment through quests? I'm not asking for stuff on par with a single-player game, but for you to at least give us a mission to accomplish. I'd rather there be alot more involved/open-ended style quests. You know, like halt the advance of this regiment. Which could be solved by three different things, (assuming a static camped for the night type thing) setting all their horses free, assassinate their commander, or give them some forged orders. Maybe even have the quest repeatable with the different objectives.
I think jumping from a skyscraper, parachuting, cutting your parachute and landing on the back of a dinosaur would be pretty cool.
League of Legends (your friendly neighborhood support): PAPRPL8
It's a cash cow because tons of people enjoy it...
It's not like they threw together some crap they though people would like and called it a day. Anyone who says WoW's devs don't put any time or love into it are blinded by.... I dunno. Something that blinds you. Mace?
It is successful because it is enjoyable. I realize plenty disagree, but obviously quite a few think it's good times. Myself included. Why not improve on what's already been tried and tested? Isn't that what WoW did in the first place?
Exactly. I enjoy the small, recognizable, steps towards something greater. Once in a while I like to dive into something completely alien and learn that too, but this will turn off many new players. There's a reason that WoW feels like EQ 2.0 which feels like UO 2.0 etc. because it makes complete sense to grab the other game's demographic, streamline things, and grab even more players.
This is wild speculation: Warhammer will be the next thing people will flock to (it won't dethrone WoW, but it is the PvP WoW 1.5) and it's just a streamlined current-gen MMO that will be recognizable and fun.
EDIT: Of course, with unlimited resources, a next-gen MMO could be designed to be fun as well, and not just streamlined.
Nothing to argue with here. WoW is the "best" of the current MMO model, and very successful. But this thread is, specifically, MMORPG innovation, which WoW is not.
The first idea is about crafting, i fell that crafting in actual MMO's are failed, because in the end you do not create anything (nothing that you can say that you created) well, maybe second life but we cannot call this crafting...
So, first we have to think what brings a player to (try) to be a crafter.
To me, there two main things.
The first is the need to create something, let's call those creative crafters
The second is the complex process of crafting, let's call those researcher crafters
The third is just for the social part, those we will call seller crafters (and those i will not discuss now, because they are well served nowadays, to some extent)
So, there this three main needs, create something unique with your mark and some kind of possibility of a complex system, and a coll marketing system.
For the first one, would be necessary some-kind of engine that let you change the apparency
of what you make, and a result that differs based on your skills. (this represent two subsets of this kind of crafter)
For the second one, would be necessary a complex system into crafting
The problem is, this complex system would be like just to researchers crafters and be boring to the rest? No.
Because can be made a crafting system that on a first layer you have a really complex system, on a second layer you have a less complex system and in a third layer a semi automatic (read, nowadays crafting) system
So researcher would work on the first layer, creativities on the second and sellers on the third.
I will on the next post talk about each of these layers.
Ok, so the first layer is the most complex (in some ways) and is directed to researcher crafters.
From now on i will call those just researchers, because they will craft, but they main goal is to creat blueprints, yes, that is the idea, the first layers will create those well know blueprints that make the automatic stuff.
So, to this work this layer of the system would require real analysis and study from the player.
To this, the first part is that all items and resources would have attributes, and not direct attributes but indirect ones.
So, a metal resource could have hardness and this can affect a crafted item in various ways.
A sword would have sharpness and this would affect fr example cutting damage.
Okay, this part looks like just a difference in naming, but there is more.
First, let's start with resources, player could create new resources using base ones.
The can for example fuse two metals, and the system would calculate the results in a intelligent way based on this resource stats.
You will have to study this stats, and the way you can change the resource, for example, to fuse the metals you would have to melt both, but you have to see the melting point and see if you really can do this, if you cant you have to use other way around or give up.
And, even the melting point would change, for example, a metal that have high melting point could be use to resist fire, but also would be harder do craft because you need to melt metal to craft on this. (at least is one of the basic process)
And them, after trying different materials and process (there would be a lot of refining process) you can take this new resource and write up what is needed to make the resource, and with this you will create a blueprint.
You can then register the blueprint and sell it.(you can make copies too)
The same applies to item crafting, but now you would have another kind of sub-system.
You have to choose form a list of options, and then the base materials.
For example, you want to make a sword with a new resource.
First you would have to choose the sword research (crafting new blueprints is called research)
There you would have some base types of sword, if it's possibly, the player can even modify the base type of sword (or even, modify a base weapon type) i don't have tough in a real way to do this modification(yet), but is not impossible.
But maybe, you can assemble parts, and those parts would be part of groups.
For example, you first say that would use a hilt, and you can choose form a subsets of hilt types (and it's materials).
Choosing the base and material, you can change some stats, like height and diameter. (like i sayd, is complex)
The you choose a blade, and do the same process.
Now you have a sword, you also can choose a base sword type and modify it (or not, if you just want try i new material)
After you create anything, it's a good idea to make some tests (and would be ways to do it that is not really using it, and then you would extract the stats)
And as you see, is kind a scientific process, you Analise, you choose, you do try and error, you test
After all this, like i said, you would have the item you have make and the blueprint, that is the main objective of this layer.
Ah... Maybe i will back on this topic later, the next one is the second layer...
Just to give a "preview", the second layer will use the blueprint created in the first part, but will modify it appearance, and small modifications like using a magical gem, enhancing and tempering. (but will aways do the same basic item) this will created a second kind of blueprint, called full process blueprint, is just have the materials and skills and use the FPBP and then you would have a new item. (and a FPBP would be used sometimes to the third layer, but this layer would have better results just buying items created in the second layer, but the FPBP helps in mass production of more generic items)