Moving to....China!? (Cue moderate terror.)

chaosisorder

My husband has an opportunity to take a position in China for four years. We are excited about the prospect but also a little freaked at such a big move. I've checked out a few expat websites and they seem slightly helpful, but we need to know the big issues.

1) What parts of the interwebs won't we have access to?

2) How difficult will it be for me to find a job and what's the best place for me to look? I work in agriculture but my largest hindrance would be my current lack of any functional Chinese. Has anyone made this kind of jump? Did you use a headhunter service?

Any help, or just general knowledge would be most welcome.

Cauld

What part of China will you be going to?

I was recently near Beijing, and i seem to recall some wikipedia sites weren't available, but their summaries were on google... however I talk to people in China often and they tell me they can get wikipedia... I'm trying to remember what else I couldn't see online... nothing comes to mind...

as far as work, you could always teach English, assuming you have a College degree any even medium sized city will be looking to hire English teachers, and you don't need any proficiency in Chinese. I would also start taking Chinese classes, it should be a great time and you'll have plenty of opportunity to practice... all the Chinese people I met were extremely happy anytime I'd use one of the 10 words I knew.

Personally, I would jump at the opportunity to go to China for four years and get paid like a westerner... it should be a great time. I would also wait until I got there to start looking for jobs, you can always hire a headhunter service once you're there.

Also I believe if once you've lived there for 1 year you can buy property, i would suggest buying the place you live... apartment prices (to buy) have gone up something around 100% a year for 5 straight years.

chaosisorder

...But can you get Penny Arcade? These are the questions we need answered!

We'd be in the Dalian area and his job will offer intensive Mandarin courses during the training (to spouses as well) but obviously we won't become proficient before we get there (or even once we are there.) I'd love to stay in my field since I'm good at it and it would be incredibly useful for the area, but I think I might have to do something I've never done and move without having a job lined up ahead of time. That frightens us pre-planners. I need to have paperwork ready and details organized. Eep.

So when you visited what was it like? Could you consider it home for a few years?

Orogogus

I get the impression that most news sites other than the official national service are blocked. I read in the (US) news that wikipedia was recently opened up, although only in English; the Chinese service is still blocked out, as well as selected, potentially inflammatory articles (e.g., "Tiananmen Square crackdown" would probably be a no-show).

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/internet/06/19/china.great.firewall.reut/index.html

Apparently Flickr is banned.

Oh, haha. There's a wikipedia page on the blocking of wikipedia in China.

On 15 June 2007, the English version of Wikipedia could be displayed again, and this website and this page was viewable from the PRC. But the Chinese language version remains blocked.

There's also an article on Chinese Internet censorship in general. Apparently you can still get foreign news sites: "In fact, most foreign news organizations' web sites are accessible, though a small number (including the BBC) continue to be blocked."

Janin

You could ask Vivixenne about the internet situation - she lives in Beijing, I think, and doesn't seem to have problems browsing PA.

Scooter

I was under the impression she was in Hong Kong, though I could be wrong. I do hear that rules are a lot more lax in HK though.

supabeast

Just get someone outside China to run an encrypted proxy for you. Buy a Mac mini or some similar small machine and leave it running at a friend or relatives. If you can figure out how to use a computer’s command-line-interface it’s pretty easy to just leave an SSH server running on port 443 and then forward all your network traffic over that. Because you would be the only person using the connection, it will probably go completely unnoticed.

Phoenix-D

I'm thinking that going around government-mandated censorship in China is probably not the best idea for your health if they DO notice, though.

powerss

I would do that too, get a Mac Mini and use it as a proxy. Perfect setup.

The chinese government is too inept to notice, trust me.

Cauld

chaosisorder wrote: »

...But can you get Penny Arcade? These are the questions we need answered!

We'd be in the Dalian area and his job will offer intensive Mandarin courses during the training (to spouses as well) but obviously we won't become proficient before we get there (or even once we are there.) I'd love to stay in my field since I'm good at it and it would be incredibly useful for the area, but I think I might have to do something I've never done and move without having a job lined up ahead of time. That frightens us pre-planners. I need to have paperwork ready and details organized. Eep.

So when you visited what was it like? Could you consider it home for a few years?

You can get PA, no problems :-) or at least I could, every day.

I could consider it home, but before I was in China I had lived in Thailand.

What's it like... umm, well... the big things I noticed are that there's very little grass, you can buy produce (and lots of other things) on the street. There really are just a lot of people, and the expansion pace is nearly unbelievable. But everything's much, much cheaper (maybe not property). Oh and the driving/pedestrian laws are a little different... everyone usually does whatever they want, so it goes a lot slower.

I tended to buy things more often, but in less quantity... like i wouldn't go grocery shopping for a week, i'd pick something up on the way home etc.

China's a lot more like America than other asian countries, i felt like they were attempting to emulate the US... any specific questions?

Thanatos

I have a friend who's a vice-president of an environmental NGO out there.

She says that a lot of foreign news sources are blocked, but that she has continued getting podcasts from those sources (including the BBC) that she subscribed to while she was in the States.

Also, expect the internet to be about 20% the speed it is here, and way, way less common. From what I've heard, the one universal is that pollution there is gawdawful, especially in Beijing.

Cauld

Thanatos wrote: »

I have a friend who's a vice-president of an environmental NGO out there.

She says that a lot of foreign news sources are blocked, but that she has continued getting podcasts from those sources (including the BBC) that she subscribed to while she was in the States.

Also, expect the internet to be about 20% the speed it is here, and way, way less common. From what I've heard, the one universal is that pollution there is gawdawful, especially in Beijing.

I had decent DSL, about 60kbs up/down... but keep in mind a lot of the sites you'll be looking at are halfway around the world, so things can happen. When I was in Thailand my internet got real shitty for a few weeks because of an earthquake in Taiwan.

But cnn.com worked fine for me... and China has an English news channel, CCTV9... its alright.

Revolutionary

When my father visited China, he found that the Wikipedia articles on certain towns and cities in China were also banned.

But I am positive that someone has cooked up a work a round. Humans, as a law of nature, will find a way to obtain something they desire, no matter the odds.

chaosisorder

So it seems like they only ban stuff as it comes to their attention and as it relates to China? I was trying to see if they just banned the whole internet and they approved things individually, but it seems more the opposite that the web is fairly free but it gets clamped down as things are noticed.

We won't have to worry about housing or net connection as everything is provided in somewhat compound style living. They've built a whole mini-town for the expats that has western schools, medical facilities, etc. so none of that is a concern. We're more looking at whether we can travel easily, if Americans are generally accepted (I've definitely traveled places where I wouldn't want to live as an American because although the tourism dollar is welcome, the attitude towards Americans is not the greatest), any big social gaffes to avoid, entertainment options (will I be able to track down English new release books?), what day to day living is like...

I haven't really found much negative other than the public bathrooms suck so we're really excited about this. Thanks everybody for the advice.

CyberJackal

I read a memoir recently from a fellow who spent a couple years in the Peace Corps teaching English in a remote area of China about 10 years ago. The name of the book was River Town, and you may want to consider reading it if you get a chance. But if you don't, here's a few things I gleaned from its pages...

- China is loud and dirty. Pollution is bad and apparently the drivers are crazy.
- The author was in a remote part of China, so that is most likely a factor, but the people reacted to him almost like he was from outer space. They were mostly polite, sure, but depending on where you end up, you could be receiving a lot of stares. Probably not as bad in a place like Beijing, but it may be a factor for you.
- The author could only speak rudimentary Chinese when he arrived, so an English teaching position might be a possibility for you.

From what I've heard in other places, I wouldn't count on getting some random Chinese job. Competition is fierce and you don't speak Chinese (yet). You might want to see if your husband's organization could make some arrangement for you.

joshuadewaal

My first post! I hope I can help.

I am a caucasian who grew up in Asia and spent a total of about 18 years there and I am only 25. Sepcifically Beijing, Hong Kong, and Taibei. I never expirienced any racial discrimination, on the whole the Chinese are very friendly. although social customs are obviously different, as a blond kid random people (particularly the elderly) would come and touch/stroke my hair.

As far a social gaffes to avoid, if you are calling some one to come to you, like a waiter or such, your hand gesture shouldn't be with your fingers pointing up as you wave for them to come towards you. Stick your arm out with your palm facing down and wave your hand with your fingers dangling instead of point up. (i hope that makes sense) its not terrible if you do it wrong, its just considered rude.
Another interesting point is that when Americans refer to themselves they point to their chests, Chinese point to or touch their nose.

Without language skills you'll be hard pressed to get a job other then teaching English.

Realize any street market vendors will definetely charge you more. My dad's trick to this was when he found antiques he liked he would have the company driver go and Barter for them after my dad had gone, obtaining a significantly better price.

As for being able to call it home, I still do. Although you will definetely expirience some culture shock.
Make sure when you go, that you travel Asia as much as you can, as living in the region will make it much more accessable.

As for censorship, they only censor what is negative towards China, CNN international would cut out when news stories would come on about China. The China Daily, the newspaper, is a joke in terms of fair and accurate stories. As an expatriot there you do have the freedom of religion. I went to church with no problem but American born Chinese had to show proof of citizenship.

I hope you find this useful. If you have anymore specific questions about culture or anything my email is joshuadewaal at gmail dot com, and I would love to answer any other questions.

Thanatos edit: I fixed your e-mail address so the spam-crawlers won't pick it up.

chaosisorder

joshuadewaal wrote: »

Without language skills you'll be hard pressed to get a job other then teaching English.

Realize any street market vendors will definetely charge you more. My dad's trick to this was when he found antiques he liked he would have the company driver go and Barter for them after my dad had gone, obtaining a significantly better price.
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The suck and the awesome. Thanks, Josh - this is exactly the sort of stuff I'm fishing for. I'm hoping against hope that some big American ag company like Dow Agro will have an office where I can get away with bad Chinese for a while, or maybe even the FAO where I can use French and English rather than Chinese for a bit, but I think I might just have to suck it up and leave my ag background.

Thanks for the email address, I may barrage you with questions if we decide to take take the plunge.