but yeah, no one would want to play as a gay dude. video games are marketed to youngish men, and who do they want to bang in the virtual world, busty prostitutes or toned twinks?
You're exaggerating for effect, right? You know the gays like playing games too, right?
but yeah, no one would want to play as a gay dude. video games are marketed to youngish men, and who do they want to bang in the virtual world, busty prostitutes or toned twinks?
You're exaggerating for effect, right? You know the gays like playing games too, right?
I'm absolutely certain that Eddy knows that the gays like video games too.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
How often HAVE they had an "ethnic" protagonist who wasn't a stereotype reference...?
Jade from Beyond Good and Evil is the classic example. Although, no-one's quite sure exactly what race she is.. I remember a good article about people interpreting her as Hispanic, Arabic, Indian, whathaveyou.
Also, there was that DS9 episode with Jadzia and that other Trill chick, although they qualify that with the premise that they were husband and wife in previous hosts.
You've just hit one of my pet peeves about Star Trek. The creators/writers pat themselves on the back endlessly for their fearless examination of hot-button issues and their progressive vision of a galaxy united in diversity and blah blah blah - but when it comes time to discuss any sort of alternative sexuality, they torturously hammer out the most strained, wilfully opaque sci-fi metaphor possible - a story wherein it is learned that one of our characters has actually hosted a benevolent parasite in his anus for twenty years but now has come the time of the hatching...
I hate that flavor of weaksauce, dishwater liberalism. One offhand mention of a male character's ex-boyfriends - or god forbid, some actual gay kissing - would be worth about fifteen Very Special Episodes.
You know what else I hate? Threads like this one, where the mention of Teh Gay inspires everyone to don their fucking conscientious critic berets: "well, I could deal with gayness in games - but only if it weren't crammed down my throat, or even better, implied but never mentioned. Ever." "I'd hate to see gay sexuality wilfully exploited for money by crass videogame designers. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to marry some girl in Fallout to use as an autocannon shield."
I'm sorry, but after thirty years of gaming and eight million busty tavern wenches and bubble-assed archaeologist supermodels, if a company somewhere decided just for the fuck of it to let a cutscene linger on a dude's oiled ass, I'd better not hear a single goddamn human being complaining.
Jacobkosh on
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MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
You've just hit one of my pet peeves about Star Trek. The creators/writers pat themselves on the back endlessly for their fearless examination of hot-button issues and their progressive vision of a galaxy united in diversity and blah blah blah - but when it comes time to discuss any sort of alternative sexuality, they torturously hammer out the most strained, wilfully opaque sci-fi metaphor possible - a story wherein it is learned that one of our characters has actually hosted a benevolent parasite in his anus for twenty years but now has come the time of the hatching...
I hate that flavor of weaksauce, dishwater liberalism. One offhand mention of a male character's ex-boyfriends - or god forbid, some actual gay kissing - would be worth about fifteen Very Special Episodes.
You know what else I hate? Threads like this one, where the mention of Teh Gay inspires everyone to don their fucking conscientious critic berets: "well, I could deal with gayness in games - but only if it weren't crammed down my throat, or even better, implied but never mentioned. Ever." "I'd hate to see gay sexuality wilfully exploited for money by crass videogame designers. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to marry some girl in Fallout to use as an autocannon shield."
I'm sorry, but after thirty years of gaming and eight million busty tavern wenches and bubble-assed archaeologist supermodels, if a company somewhere decided just for the fuck of it to let a cutscene linger on a dude's oiled ass, I'd better not hear a single goddamn human being complaining.
I'm replaying Fallout 1 at the moment, and just started noticing the character models. Ok, you're too far zoomed out to notice much more than skin colour, but you've got either white or black (or green, teehee!), and there's no black women. None. And only one black male character model (there may be a second one in the Brotherhood, but I haven't gotten that far). The rest are all honkies (with a wide variety of appearances), and the males outnumber the women even in NPCs. I'm like okay, does having no melanin or tits render you more resistant to radiation? Shouldn't there be some kind of handmaid's tale thing going on if women are so rare? Oh, and the only fat dude was a baddie. Super progressive! I recall it improving a little in the sequels, but not by much.
With the above in mind, I don't think gay/bi/other 'non-norm' characters should be featured, I just think they should be there. Without the OH WE'RE SO GODDAMN PROGRESSIVE LOOKIT fanfare that accompanies the appearance of minorities in many media - TV. movies, comics, games. I want developers to step back and just make sure that not all the characters in the game look like cliches. Make a totally random character some non-standard ethnicity/sexuality and then say nothing about it. No explanation for why they're there, in terms of their bodily appearance or sexuality, because there really doesn't need to be unless its central to the plot.
I think this is something that will inevitably happen as the gamer market matures. Fact is, the demographic is largely male and young. These are not people who are comfortable with homosexuality, because they've barely even started to figure out their sexuality period. I don't see this changing any time soon.
But thanks to things like the Wii, and just the inevitable aging of the gamer population, we will of course see more diversity and realism in games and game characters. I don't see how it couldn't happen. The game industry is an adolescent industry, and so it produces a great deal of adolescent material. This will change.
I guess what I'm saying is that "should or shouldn't" is really irrelevant. It will happen, but it's unlikely that it will happen in the next few years, and it's unlikely that efforts to force it would be very successful (at least in America).
The average age of gamers is 27. You'd think they'd have figured a few things out by now, given that a fair chunk of them have managed to reproduce.
I really don't think its about the customer demographics. Its just a lack of imagination on the part of developers. Its easy to assume everyone looks a bit like you.
You'd think they'd have figured a few things out by now, given that a fair chunk of them have managed to reproduce.
Since when has that meant anything?
I really don't think its about the customer demographics. Its just a lack of imagination on the part of developers. Its easy to assume everyone looks a bit like you.
Still, 27 is fairly young, at least in comparison with the people who make stuff in other entertainment media.
I seem to recall reading that one of the characters in Clive Barkers new game being actively billed as a lesbian.
Not as controversial as a male homosexual character in your game but I found it kind of odd that in a game about time travelling psychic whatsis they're doing the whole 'hey guyz! lesbos!' angle.
telcus on
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
With the above in mind, I don't think gay/bi/other 'non-norm' characters should be featured, I just think they should be there. Without the OH WE'RE SO GODDAMN PROGRESSIVE LOOKIT fanfare that accompanies the appearance of minorities in many media - TV. movies, comics, games.
I know this happens cause they mean well, but yeah, it's getting ridiculous. Being black or gay is not an affliction to be discussed in hushed, reverent tones. When idiots say things like "I want it to be done tastefully" it's like they're saying there's something inherently tasteless about it.
I mostly play rpgs and I'm always seeing if you can actually get into a homosexual relationship. Fable was fun in that manner and you could cross-dress to boot, but the relationships are one dimensional and seem to just be stat building. The only one I've played in recent years that allowed you to seduce someone of the same gender was Jade Empire, but I think it only applied if your main character was female. SaGa frontier, especially Asellus' story, had a lot of blatant innuendo and I had a lot of fun in that game.
Of course the story and gameplay should come first, but I don't mind if a character is prominently gay and crossdresses or the heroine is on a quest to save her girlfriend. Lots of games have homosexuals as side characters: Baldur's Gate II, for example, has a gay Romeo and Juliet though it's hard to tell from the pixels. I'd like a game where the main character could be unabashedly gay and a noble hero, if only just for mere recognition.
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
edited June 2007
Nah, you could romance the guy with Leonardo's voice as a dude.
You shouldn't make a gay character just because there hasn't been one before, you should make one because somehow his sexual preference impacts on the game in a somewhat entertaining or critical way.
What makes you think, lets say The Masterchief is heterosexual?
As it is not relevant for the game, he could be anything.
He's effectively asexual, genetic enhancements he undergoes have the side affect of removing his sex drive.
What's your point though?
My point is, that there are many games where the main character doesn't show any interest in any gender. My gut tells me most people will jump to the conclusion he/she's hetero, though.
My point is, that there are many games where the main character doesn't show any interest in any gender. My gut tells me most people will jump to the conclusion he/she's hetero, though.
I think it's wrong.
I agree with you. I don't think that can really be changed though. When something goes unmentioned then people tend to either see it as the norm or whatever stereotype defines them as. For example people are always going to see the standard action hero as straight but highly effeminate male characters as gay.
We've had homosexual characters in games for years.
Have you looked at Mario, the guy's blatantly the missing Village Person. Ken, Ryu - both gay as a window. In fact, I'd say that it's a pretty safe bet that the entire cast of Streetfighter ride the other bus.
The real scandal here is the underrepresentation of bisexual nympho cheerleaders.
I have nothing against homo/bisexuals in games. But it shouldn't really matter unless their sexuality is important to the story, but game writing needs to take a step up before we can really start worrying about that.
I mean we don't know the sexuality of the vast majority of video game characters anyway.
Enchanted Arms had a central flamboyant yaoi-type character as part of the story.
And he was obnoxious as fuck. I heard the English VO for him was even worse than the Japanese one.
Personally, I wish there was no romance at all in games. I'm sick of almost every TV show, movie, and book having a romance subplot. I don't want it happening in games too.
I think this is something that will inevitably happen as the gamer market matures. Fact is, the demographic is largely male and young. These are not people who are comfortable with homosexuality, because they've barely even started to figure out their sexuality period. I don't see this changing any time soon.
But thanks to things like the Wii, and just the inevitable aging of the gamer population, we will of course see more diversity and realism in games and game characters. I don't see how it couldn't happen. The game industry is an adolescent industry, and so it produces a great deal of adolescent material. This will change.
I guess what I'm saying is that "should or shouldn't" is really irrelevant. It will happen, but it's unlikely that it will happen in the next few years, and it's unlikely that efforts to force it would be very successful (at least in America).
I think the Wii should have an unlicensed adult sex game. That'd be awesome.
Wasn't there some PS1 game called 'Fear' something that had a lesbian lead? Anyways, gaming needs more hot bisexual girls, you know that would sell! w00t
I'm replaying Fallout 1 at the moment, and just started noticing the character models. Ok, you're too far zoomed out to notice much more than skin colour, but you've got either white or black (or green, teehee!), and there's no black women. None. And only one black male character model (there may be a second one in the Brotherhood, but I haven't gotten that far). The rest are all honkies (with a wide variety of appearances), and the males outnumber the women even in NPCs. I'm like okay, does having no melanin or tits render you more resistant to radiation? Shouldn't there be some kind of handmaid's tale thing going on if women are so rare? Oh, and the only fat dude was a baddie. Super progressive! I recall it improving a little in the sequels, but not by much.
Fallout 2 is hells of progressive. I got my lady married to another lady then pimped her out to a black guy! What more do you want?
You shouldn't make a gay character just because there hasn't been one before, you should make one because somehow his sexual preference impacts on the game in a somewhat entertaining or critical way.
Oh and umm, everyone is gay for bridget.
You actually defeat the end Boss by coming on to him Xerxes style, only he doesn't handle it all cool and shit like Leonidas, he slits his throat and jumps off his mighty 500 story throne, expoding into hundreds of little chunks just after he gurgles "Noooo, I've been infected by teh gays!"
What? Thats probably better than it would be handled if it were actually tried. A character cross between Vin Diesel and Carson from Queer Eye, trying to save the world from anti-gay law makers, where during a cut scene Cheney is killed by his own daughter, and naturally Bush is the main villain.
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited June 2007
Gay as a window?
I would like to see games with romances built into the story that weren't necessarily heterosexual. Of course, the main objective would be to have realistic relationships, but how different would FF8 have been if Squall and Seifer not only were rivals and always trying to show off, but there was also a level of romantic tension?
"well, I could deal with gayness in games - but only if it weren't crammed down my throat, or even better, implied but never mentioned. Ever."
You know a game that dealt with homosexuality well? The Longest Journey. The main character's landlord and super were a lesbian couple, and April (the protagonist) - who was born and raised in the rural Midwest, as far as I can recall - is completely comfortable with them, and even refers to them as a "cute couple". At no point does anybody in the game act any way or say anything that would imply that there was anything the least bit strange about their relationship.
Edit: I should note for those not aware that TLJ takes place a century or so in the future.
I love the addition of romances in RPGs. But they're optional, and people are never forced to play them. At least, this has been the case in all the RPGs I've played.
I'm surprised Jade Empire's only been mentioned once. In Jade Empire, you have three NPCs you can romance: 2 female, 1 male. One of the females and one of the males are available to a player character of either genre. It's not forced upon you but it's there if you want it.
You can play a male character and romance any of the three separately, or the two women together. You can play a female character and romance one of the women or the man. It's all quite tastefully done, too.
Posts
You're exaggerating for effect, right? You know the gays like playing games too, right?
I'm absolutely certain that Eddy knows that the gays like video games too.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Jade from Beyond Good and Evil is the classic example. Although, no-one's quite sure exactly what race she is.. I remember a good article about people interpreting her as Hispanic, Arabic, Indian, whathaveyou.
That game was great. I loved following up on a hard day of monster fighting by fucking my husband.
You've just hit one of my pet peeves about Star Trek. The creators/writers pat themselves on the back endlessly for their fearless examination of hot-button issues and their progressive vision of a galaxy united in diversity and blah blah blah - but when it comes time to discuss any sort of alternative sexuality, they torturously hammer out the most strained, wilfully opaque sci-fi metaphor possible - a story wherein it is learned that one of our characters has actually hosted a benevolent parasite in his anus for twenty years but now has come the time of the hatching...
I hate that flavor of weaksauce, dishwater liberalism. One offhand mention of a male character's ex-boyfriends - or god forbid, some actual gay kissing - would be worth about fifteen Very Special Episodes.
You know what else I hate? Threads like this one, where the mention of Teh Gay inspires everyone to don their fucking conscientious critic berets: "well, I could deal with gayness in games - but only if it weren't crammed down my throat, or even better, implied but never mentioned. Ever." "I'd hate to see gay sexuality wilfully exploited for money by crass videogame designers. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to marry some girl in Fallout to use as an autocannon shield."
I'm sorry, but after thirty years of gaming and eight million busty tavern wenches and bubble-assed archaeologist supermodels, if a company somewhere decided just for the fuck of it to let a cutscene linger on a dude's oiled ass, I'd better not hear a single goddamn human being complaining.
With the above in mind, I don't think gay/bi/other 'non-norm' characters should be featured, I just think they should be there. Without the OH WE'RE SO GODDAMN PROGRESSIVE LOOKIT fanfare that accompanies the appearance of minorities in many media - TV. movies, comics, games. I want developers to step back and just make sure that not all the characters in the game look like cliches. Make a totally random character some non-standard ethnicity/sexuality and then say nothing about it. No explanation for why they're there, in terms of their bodily appearance or sexuality, because there really doesn't need to be unless its central to the plot.
Come get some hun!
We have had gays in RPGs since Japan entered the market. Bunch of fems with emotional imbalances.
What was the joke? I don't get it... O_o
Having emotions means you're gay.
Thanks for that, chief.
But thanks to things like the Wii, and just the inevitable aging of the gamer population, we will of course see more diversity and realism in games and game characters. I don't see how it couldn't happen. The game industry is an adolescent industry, and so it produces a great deal of adolescent material. This will change.
I guess what I'm saying is that "should or shouldn't" is really irrelevant. It will happen, but it's unlikely that it will happen in the next few years, and it's unlikely that efforts to force it would be very successful (at least in America).
I really don't think its about the customer demographics. Its just a lack of imagination on the part of developers. Its easy to assume everyone looks a bit like you.
Woah. Really?
Since when has that meant anything?
Still, 27 is fairly young, at least in comparison with the people who make stuff in other entertainment media.
Not as controversial as a male homosexual character in your game but I found it kind of odd that in a game about time travelling psychic whatsis they're doing the whole 'hey guyz! lesbos!' angle.
I know this happens cause they mean well, but yeah, it's getting ridiculous. Being black or gay is not an affliction to be discussed in hushed, reverent tones. When idiots say things like "I want it to be done tastefully" it's like they're saying there's something inherently tasteless about it.
Of course the story and gameplay should come first, but I don't mind if a character is prominently gay and crossdresses or the heroine is on a quest to save her girlfriend. Lots of games have homosexuals as side characters: Baldur's Gate II, for example, has a gay Romeo and Juliet though it's hard to tell from the pixels. I'd like a game where the main character could be unabashedly gay and a noble hero, if only just for mere recognition.
It's just, y'know...Leonardo.
Would you say the same about race or sex?
What makes you think, lets say The Masterchief is heterosexual?
As it is not relevant for the game, he could be anything.
What's your point though?
My point is, that there are many games where the main character doesn't show any interest in any gender. My gut tells me most people will jump to the conclusion he/she's hetero, though.
I think it's wrong.
I agree with you. I don't think that can really be changed though. When something goes unmentioned then people tend to either see it as the norm or whatever stereotype defines them as. For example people are always going to see the standard action hero as straight but highly effeminate male characters as gay.
Have you looked at Mario, the guy's blatantly the missing Village Person. Ken, Ryu - both gay as a window. In fact, I'd say that it's a pretty safe bet that the entire cast of Streetfighter ride the other bus.
The real scandal here is the underrepresentation of bisexual nympho cheerleaders.
And he was obnoxious as fuck. I heard the English VO for him was even worse than the Japanese one.
I think the Wii should have an unlicensed adult sex game. That'd be awesome.
Fallout 2 is hells of progressive. I got my lady married to another lady then pimped her out to a black guy! What more do you want?
You actually defeat the end Boss by coming on to him Xerxes style, only he doesn't handle it all cool and shit like Leonidas, he slits his throat and jumps off his mighty 500 story throne, expoding into hundreds of little chunks just after he gurgles "Noooo, I've been infected by teh gays!"
What? Thats probably better than it would be handled if it were actually tried. A character cross between Vin Diesel and Carson from Queer Eye, trying to save the world from anti-gay law makers, where during a cut scene Cheney is killed by his own daughter, and naturally Bush is the main villain.
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I would like to see games with romances built into the story that weren't necessarily heterosexual. Of course, the main objective would be to have realistic relationships, but how different would FF8 have been if Squall and Seifer not only were rivals and always trying to show off, but there was also a level of romantic tension?
Hold on a second...
Edit: I should note for those not aware that TLJ takes place a century or so in the future.
I love the addition of romances in RPGs. But they're optional, and people are never forced to play them. At least, this has been the case in all the RPGs I've played.
I'm surprised Jade Empire's only been mentioned once. In Jade Empire, you have three NPCs you can romance: 2 female, 1 male. One of the females and one of the males are available to a player character of either genre. It's not forced upon you but it's there if you want it.
You can play a male character and romance any of the three separately, or the two women together. You can play a female character and romance one of the women or the man. It's all quite tastefully done, too.
Good call, I'd completely forgotten that one.
Hell yes.
*besides the voice of Leonardo