Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

Video Game Sales Numbers! Zack is my bishie.

PataPata Registered User regular
edited September 2007 in Games and Technology
Welcome one and all to the thread where we classy international business types discuss the dealings of those "video games" that the common folk like to amuse themselves with oh ho ho ho.

The numbers are obtained mainly from that hive of scum and villany, the dreaded land of NeoGAF. I, your brave thread poster, dives into this jungle to obtain these numbers.

Let us study them and learn their wisdom!

This week's Media Create Numbers(9/10-9/16):http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=191890

Software
01. [PSP] Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII - 487,000 / NEW
02. [NDS] Pokemon Fushigi no Dungeon: Toki no Tankentai - 300,000 / NEW
03. [NDS] Pokemon Fushigi no Dungeon: Yami no Tankentai - 269,000 / NEW
04. [PSP] Fate/Tiger Colosseum - 55,000 / NEW
05. [PS2] Another Century's Episode 3: The Final - 31,000 / 218,000
06. [NDS] Taiko no Tatsujin DS - 24,000 / 131,000
07. [WII] Mario Party 8 - 24,000 / 756,000
08. [NDS] Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles - Ring of Fates - 24,000 / 316,000
09. [PS2] Sengoku Musou 2 Mushouden - 14,000 / 274,000
10. [NDS] My Housekeeping Diary - 13,000 / 195,000
11. [NDS] Brain Age 2
12. [NDS] Flash Focus: Vision Training in Minutes a Day
13. [NDS] Mario Kart DS
14. [WII] Wii Sports
15. [WII] Wii Play
16. [NDS] New Super Mario Bros.
17. [PS3] Bladestorm
18. [PS2] Jissen Pachinko Hisshouhou! CR Sakura Taisen
19. [PSP] Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories
20. [NDS] Phoenix Wright 3
21. [NDS] Brain Age
22. [NDS] Animal Crossing DS
23. [PS2] J-League Winning Eleven 2007: Club Championship
24. [NDS] The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
25. [NDS] Gakken DS: Shin Toeic Test Kanzen Kouryaku
26. [NDS] More English Training
27. [PS3] Hot Shots Golf 5
28. [NDS] Donkey Kong: Jungle Climber
29. [NDS] Kanji Brain Test 2M
30. [NDS] One Piece: Gear Spirit


August NPD Numbers: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189989

Software
360 MADDEN NFL 08 896.6K
PS2 MADDEN NFL 08 643.6K
360 BIOSHOCK 490.9K
PS3 MADDEN NFL 08 336.2K
WII PLAY W/ REMOTE 256.8K
WII METROID PRIME 3: CORRUPTION 218.1K
WII MARIO STRIKERS: CHARGED 147.4K
PS2 GUITAR HERO 2 W/GUITAR 145.4K
WII MARIO PARTY 8 138.3K
PS2 GUITAR HERO ENCORE: ROCKS THE 80S 127.1K
XBX MADDEN NFL 08
WII MADDEN NFL 08
NDS BRAIN AGE 2: MORE TRAINING IN MINUTES A
360 TWO WORLDS
NDS POKEMON DIAMOND VERSION
NDS HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL: MAKIN THE CUT
360 GUITAR HERO 2 W/ GUITAR
PSP MADDEN NFL 08
NDS POKEMON PEARL VERSION
360 TIGER WOODS PGA TOUR 08

Hardware
Wii 403.6 K
Nintendo DS 383.3K
Xbox 360 276.7K
PlayStation 2 202K
PlayStation Portable 151.2 K
PlayStation 3 130.6K


Media Create 9/3 - 9/9
Spoiler:

Media Create 8/27 - 9/2
Spoiler:




Media Create 8/20-8/26
Spoiler:


July NPD
Spoiler:


Media Create 8/13-8/19
Spoiler:


Media Create 8/6-8/12
Spoiler:


Media Create 7/20-8/5
Spoiler:


Media Create 7/23-7/29
Spoiler:


June NPD Numbers
Spoiler:

Pata on
Spoiler:
«13456763

Posts

  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Great OP, though I'd suggest making it a bit more clear which numbers are U.S. and which are Japanese to cut a few newbie questions off at the pass.

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    When are we supposed to get June's NPD numbers?

  • dopplexdopplex Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    http://kotaku.com/gaming/rumor/playstation-3-100-price-cut-hits-july-15-275391.php

    July 15th - PS3 Price cut to $499.

    Seems true to me. I knew it was coming, but didn't know exactly when...

  • slurpeepoopslurpeepoop Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    dopplex wrote: »
    http://kotaku.com/gaming/rumor/playstation-3-100-price-cut-hits-july-15-275391.php

    July 15th - PS3 Price cut to $499.

    Seems true to me. I knew it was coming, but didn't know exactly when...


    That's fantastic (really, it is), but it's still got a ways to go until it reaches a point where people will buy enough of them to account for the money that they've lost.



  • DesertBoxDesertBox Registered User
    edited July 2007
    dopplex wrote: »
    http://kotaku.com/gaming/rumor/playstation-3-100-price-cut-hits-july-15-275391.php

    July 15th - PS3 Price cut to $499.

    Seems true to me. I knew it was coming, but didn't know exactly when...


    That's fantastic (really, it is), but it's still got a ways to go until it reaches a point where people will buy enough of them to account for the money that they've lost.

    Hmm. I would buy it at that price if HD-DVD went away, as well. Maybe by Christmas?

    I also wonder what Microsoft's response, if any, will be. This would put the PS3 and the 360 Elite at the same level.

    Spoiler:
  • dopplexdopplex Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Oh, no doubt there's a huge ways to go - and there's already been some irreparable harm done to the PS3s market standing - but this was a strategic necessity. It would have been game over for the PS3 going into the holiday season at a $599 price point.

    This should definitely help them on the install base front. It only helps them on one front though - while I'm sure they'll show a spike in sales when the cut takes effect, it remains to be seen whether they can actually make up any ground on the 360.

    It's still a very uphill battle for the PS3, especially up against the firepower that is the 360 upcoming game lineup.

    (And yes, the only comparison that really matters here is 360 vs. PS3. Wii isn't losing market share to either within the next year or so - and it's not really a substitute product for one of the HD consoles in any case. They fill different needs.)

  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    dopplex wrote: »
    Oh, no doubt there's a huge ways to go - and there's already been some irreparable harm done to the PS3s market standing - but this was a strategic necessity. It would have been game over for the PS3 going into the holiday season at a $599 price point.

    This should definitely help them on the install base front. It only helps them on one front though - while I'm sure they'll show a spike in sales when the cut takes effect, it remains to be seen whether they can actually make up any ground on the 360.

    It's still a very uphill battle for the PS3, especially up against the firepower that is the 360 upcoming game lineup.

    (And yes, the only comparison that really matters here is 360 vs. PS3. Wii isn't losing market share to either within the next year or so - and it's not really a substitute product for one of the HD consoles in any case. They fill different needs.)

    Yes, all three providing games, made by the same publishers in the same genres easily falls under filling "different needs"

    This is an excuse of a second or third rate business model. Global models don't seek to be different from their competitors, they seek to be better than them. Better in this case being roughly equal to profit and mindshare. Niche market players seek to be different than their main competitors, usually because they just can't compete in their league. Look at Apple. This is a company that fits both of these models for two different products. The ipod is a leader, and the mac line is a niche player.

    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    dopplex wrote: »
    (And yes, the only comparison that really matters here is 360 vs. PS3. Wii isn't losing market share to either within the next year or so - and it's not really a substitute product for one of the HD consoles in any case. They fill different needs.)

    Granted the Wii is kinda "out of the equation" because of it's stellar sales and different primary "focus" if you will. But to write it off as though the PS3 or 360 is only losing sales to one another because the Wii doesn't substitute either one or fills "different needs" is ridiculous.

    The Wii fills the need to play games. The other two play games. Thus, the Wii can and will be a substitute product for MANY people in the upcoming months and holiday and will fill the gaming need of those people.

    I'm not trying to start an argument, but if the PS3 is going to start competing with the 360, and MS responds by lowering the 360's price point as well, it'll start competing with the Wii on the Core level and closely with the Premium depending on how much they drop.

    Wii $250 towards PS3 $500 - still no real competition for price

    Wii $250 towards 360 core $200-250 (if they drop from $300)
    That could definitely start to even compete with the Wii if people look at the number of games available and the online LIVE capabilities and HD quality.

    If they drop the Premium to $300 (doubtful, probably $350 with Elite at $400) it will be close enough to Wii as well to encourage people to spend a little more.

    If the 360 starts to take some of the Wii's sales, then it will continue to outsell the PS3, despite the price drop Sony tries.

    steam_sig.png
    Backloggery XBox Live: ArcSyn 3DS: 1805-2274-4550 (Jonathan) WiiU NNID: ArcSyn

    GIFT GET GIFS
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    dopplex wrote: »
    http://kotaku.com/gaming/rumor/playstation-3-100-price-cut-hits-july-15-275391.php

    July 15th - PS3 Price cut to $499.

    Seems true to me. I knew it was coming, but didn't know exactly when...

    Seems likely, though I wonder how much good it will do. Sure, sales will rise because of this, but will it be enough to truly compete with the 360? I'd say $500 is still beyond what the mass market is willing to pay... hell, charging $400 for the 360 just barely worked.

    Furthermore, the public was already trained to think the PS3 costs $500, thanks to the near-mythical 20GB model that got a huge amount of play at launch. If people remember that, they could go "meh."

    This really is the start of what Sony needs to do, though. We'll see how much it helps soon enough. And we'll see how Microsoft reacts to this. The 360 is getting close to two years without a price drop, which is a loooooong damn time.

    Also, I wonder how this affects their finances... have component costs dropped enough to where Sony will still lose only $200 (or less) per PS3 sold at $500? Or will they lose even more? Lots of questions here.

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I also wonder if perhaps we will see a price drop on the PS2 as well. That would be nice. It's been $130 forever.

    steam_sig.png
    Backloggery XBox Live: ArcSyn 3DS: 1805-2274-4550 (Jonathan) WiiU NNID: ArcSyn

    GIFT GET GIFS
  • bruinbruin Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Pata wrote: »
    pokemon_history.png

    Is D/P expected to crawl its way up to the top of the chart? I remember it launched to much better numbers than any Pokemon game before it, and DS is by far the fastest selling system in Japan ever, but it seems to me like sales for the game have slowed too much already for it to top 7.5 million.

  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    The three games above it all have THREE versions. A third version would put D/P waaay ahead of R/B/Y.

    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • bruinbruin Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    The three games above it all have THREE versions. A third version would put D/P waaay ahead of R/B/Y.

    Ah, I didn't even think of that. I'm sure it's coming (next year?), too.

  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    bruin wrote: »
    The three games above it all have THREE versions. A third version would put D/P waaay ahead of R/B/Y.

    Ah, I didn't even think of that. I'm sure it's coming (next year?), too.

    Well, betting against a third version of the 4th generation would be silly. I wouldn't say it would come out next year necessarily, but within two is a very good possibility.

    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    How will a PS3 price cut help the console much if they already had a version with that exact price that they took off the market because it was supposedly selling poorly?

  • bruinbruin Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Titmouse wrote: »
    How will a PS3 price cut help the console if they already had a version with that exact price that they took off the market because it was supposedly selling poorly?

    Because it's a step closer to the price at which people might actually buy the damn thing.

  • Target PracticeTarget Practice Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Wow, Nintendo's only got six spots this week.

    I have two questions:

    1) What's "Donkey Kong Jet"?
    2) What the fuck is "Tales of Fandom"?!

    sig.gif
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    bruin wrote: »
    Titmouse wrote: »
    How will a PS3 price cut help the console if they already had a version with that exact price that they took off the market because it was supposedly selling poorly?

    Because it's a step closer to the price at which people might actually buy the damn thing.

    But it is still above the price at which most people will actually buy the thing.

  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    bruin wrote: »
    Titmouse wrote: »
    How will a PS3 price cut help the console if they already had a version with that exact price that they took off the market because it was supposedly selling poorly?

    Because it's a step closer to the price at which people might actually buy the damn thing.

    Think about it. People were given the option of the Core vs. Premium the year before, and learned that the Core was gimped to all hell. The 20 GB, far less gimped, had that same stigma attached. That and it had an extremely low profit margin (even for a video game console) for retailers. They hated it and stopped reordering them.

    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • Target PracticeTarget Practice Registered User
    edited July 2007
    As for the PS3 price drop, if it's true: Isn't the 360 Elite like $480?

    sig.gif
  • PataPata Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Donkey Kong Jet is a racing game.

    It uses the Wiimote and Nunchuck in a way that resembles the DK Bongos.

    Tales of Fandom is one of those Tales series crossover games.

    Spoiler:
  • bruinbruin Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    As for the PS3 price drop, if it's true: Isn't the 360 Elite like $480?

    Yeah, but the 360 most people want is still $400.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Wow, Nintendo's only got six spots this week.

    I have two questions:

    2) What the fuck is "Tales of Fandom"?!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3gYKN4jenU
    This video might explain it.

  • PataPata Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    That explained nothing.

    Spoiler:
  • Target PracticeTarget Practice Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Titmouse wrote: »
    Wow, Nintendo's only got six spots this week.

    I have two questions:

    2) What the fuck is "Tales of Fandom"?!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3gYKN4jenU
    This video might explain it.

    Not really, but I get the feeling I don't really care.

    sig.gif
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Pata wrote: »
    That explained nothing.

    OK. The comments might explain something about it:
    Tales of Fandom Vol.2 has characters from Phantasia, Symphonia, and the Abyss...

  • dopplexdopplex Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Yes, all three providing games, made by the same publishers in the same genres easily falls under filling "different needs"

    This is an excuse of a second or third rate business model. Global models don't seek to be different from their competitors, they seek to be better than them. Better in this case being roughly equal to profit and mindshare. Niche market players seek to be different than their main competitors, usually because they just can't compete in their league. Look at Apple. This is a company that fits both of these models for two different products. The ipod is a leader, and the mac line is a niche player.

    Hardly. Global models *constantly* strive to be different from their competitors. Having a differentiated offering, you see, enables lovely things like price premiums and uncontested space. Doing it "better" is differentiation. So is doing it differently.

    Do you seriously claim that the games that most effectively display the value of the Wii are the same as those that most effectively display the value of the 360 or PS3? Wii Sports could not have been made for any other console. I rather doubt that Dead Rising could have been made for the Wii. This isn't "same publishers, same genres, same needs". It's much harder to distinguish between the value proposition of the PS3 and the 360 - but I don't think that the village idiot could confuse either for the value proposition of the Wii.

    This is simply marketing 101. Differentiate your product so that it fills different needs than those of your competitors. There's no niche here - just a whole bunch of people who look for different things when they play games. Some of them choose Wii, some choose PS3, and some choose 360. They base their choice on what their needs are. Do they need a cheap console? Do they need a console they can play with friends and family? Do they need something to show off that fancy HD set? Need to play neat remote waving sports game they saw Steven Colbert playing with on TV? Need to play online? Need something fun, but are a bit intimidated by these "con-souls"?

    This set of needs a product meets is called a "value proposition", and it's evident to the most brain damaged among us that the current lot of consoles have different value props.

    So differentiation - or meeting different needs than the other products out there - is absolutely critical to any new product introduction. There's a flipside however. "Irrelevant differentiation" is when a product invests in features that a customer doesn't need - indicated by the fact that they're not willing to pay for that differentiation. You may think it's the most amazing thing in the world, but if the customer doesn't pay for it - well fuck it, you lose. I'm sure we all have lots and LOTS of trouble pointing to the standard bearer for this one this gen.

    The entire point of this is that meeting different needs, contrary to the mouth-diarrhea of whoever it is I'm responding to, is in fact one of the most crucial things a successful product can do - whether it's aimed at a niche market or a global market.

  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    What do we think will sell the most for 2007?

    Probably Pokemon though Im talking home consoles.


    GTA4 will be up there. MGS4 if indeed it is rumoured to be out this fall. Halo 3 has gotta shift a few million.

    scarab you have mental problems
  • dopplexdopplex Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    dopplex wrote: »
    (And yes, the only comparison that really matters here is 360 vs. PS3. Wii isn't losing market share to either within the next year or so - and it's not really a substitute product for one of the HD consoles in any case. They fill different needs.)

    Granted the Wii is kinda "out of the equation" because of it's stellar sales and different primary "focus" if you will. But to write it off as though the PS3 or 360 is only losing sales to one another because the Wii doesn't substitute either one or fills "different needs" is ridiculous.

    The Wii fills the need to play games. The other two play games. Thus, the Wii can and will be a substitute product for MANY people in the upcoming months and holiday and will fill the gaming need of those people.

    I'm not trying to start an argument, but if the PS3 is going to start competing with the 360, and MS responds by lowering the 360's price point as well, it'll start competing with the Wii on the Core level and closely with the Premium depending on how much they drop.

    Wii $250 towards PS3 $500 - still no real competition for price

    Wii $250 towards 360 core $200-250 (if they drop from $300)
    That could definitely start to even compete with the Wii if people look at the number of games available and the online LIVE capabilities and HD quality.

    If they drop the Premium to $300 (doubtful, probably $350 with Elite at $400) it will be close enough to Wii as well to encourage people to spend a little more.

    If the 360 starts to take some of the Wii's sales, then it will continue to outsell the PS3, despite the price drop Sony tries.


    The needs are a bit more complex than that - and no, the Wii isn't entirely not a substitute product - but it's not nearly a substitute to the extent that the 360 and PS3 are subs for each other (though game portfolio is starting to differentiate the 360 a bit). I'd argue that you're going to see a hell of a lot more people who own a Wii and a [360/PS3] than you are people who own a 360 and a PS3 at the same time.

    That said, for the non-hardcore crowd, yes, the Wii is a substitute product. I don't really see this group as being in play that much at the moment though - the Wii has pretty much established itself as console of choice for this group - and even if the 360 price drops further, I think Wii Sports and the controls keep this group solidly in the Wii's corner. Already developers are planning development to this, so it's likely to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. (Rock Band could shake things up a bit, coupled with a 360 price drop, if it doesn't make an appearance on the Wii.)

    The current hotly contested space is more for the 'core' gamer - and with all of the titles dropping this holiday, it will only get more contested. The PS3 price drop actually lets it reenter the race here, but unless some killer titles materialize for it this winter, it's still at a pretty severe disadvantage going up against Halo 3 on one side and the holy Smash/Mario/Metroid trinity on the other.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    What do we think will sell the most for 2007?

    Probably Pokemon though Im talking home consoles.


    GTA4 will be up there. MGS4 if indeed it is rumoured to be out this fall. Halo 3 has gotta shift a few million.
    I doubt MGS4 will be the best selling videogame of 2007 because the sales of MGS3 looked like they suffered because it was released close to another big game. It is also only being released on a console that looks like it won't reach the same amount of people as the 360 by the end of the year. I am going to say it will either be GTA4 because it will be on both consoles with a massive amount of possibly equaling that of Halo 3, or it will be Halo 3 because nearly everybody with a 360 will get it and the amount of hype that Microsoft can create for it.

    Edit: If the price of the Core 360 is dropped, I am sure Nintendo could easily drop the price of the Wii without losing much profit. Do people actually buy the Core?

  • dopplexdopplex Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Titmouse wrote: »
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    What do we think will sell the most for 2007?

    Probably Pokemon though Im talking home consoles.


    GTA4 will be up there. MGS4 if indeed it is rumoured to be out this fall. Halo 3 has gotta shift a few million.
    I doubt MGS4 will be the best selling videogame of 2007 because the sales of MGS3 looked like they suffered because it was released close to another big game. It is also only being released on a console that looks like it won't reach the same amount of people as the 360 by the end of the year. I am going to say it will either be GTA4 because it will be on both consoles with a massive amount of possibly equaling that of Halo 3, or it will be Halo 3 because nearly everybody with a 360 will get it and the amount of hype that Microsoft can create for it.

    Edit: If the price of the Core 360 is dropped, I am sure Nintendo could easily drop the price of the Wii without losing much profit. Do people actually buy the Core?


    Does Wii Sports qualify? (ie. do we count the sales it gets as a pack in?) If so, it gets my vote as best-selling title of 2007, Halo, GTA and MGS notwithstanding.

    (GTA and MGS may be able to give it a good run, MGS only if it releases on 360 as well)

    EDIT: Also, are we talking US, Japan, global?

  • darleysamdarleysam Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    i would like to tip Halo 3 to be a top-seller, but it's an uncertain vote in light of the sheer mass of Wiis out there.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    darleysam wrote: »
    i would like to tip Halo 3 to be a top-seller, but it's an uncertain vote in light of the sheer mass of Wiis out there.

    Other than possibly Super Mario Galaxy, I can't think of any Wii game being released this year that might become a huge megahit on that level.

  • dopplexdopplex Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Multiplatform games have a huge advantage when it comes to those overall sales.

    Is Rock Band out this year? It would be a good dark horse - broader appeal than any of the other games (I mean, who doesn't want it?) but the price may limit sales numbers.

  • SirUltimosSirUltimos Don't talk, Rusty. Just paint. Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Definatly GTA4 and Halo 3 are gonna be the biggest sellers this year. Just like in every other yeara Halo or GTA game was released.

  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    dopplex wrote: »
    Yes, all three providing games, made by the same publishers in the same genres easily falls under filling "different needs"

    This is an excuse of a second or third rate business model. Global models don't seek to be different from their competitors, they seek to be better than them. Better in this case being roughly equal to profit and mindshare. Niche market players seek to be different than their main competitors, usually because they just can't compete in their league. Look at Apple. This is a company that fits both of these models for two different products. The ipod is a leader, and the mac line is a niche player.

    Hardly. Global models *constantly* strive to be different from their competitors. Having a differentiated offering, you see, enables lovely things like price premiums and uncontested space. Doing it "better" is differentiation. So is doing it differently.

    Do you seriously claim that the games that most effectively display the value of the Wii are the same as those that most effectively display the value of the 360 or PS3? Wii Sports could not have been made for any other console. I rather doubt that Dead Rising could have been made for the Wii. This isn't "same publishers, same genres, same needs". It's much harder to distinguish between the value proposition of the PS3 and the 360 - but I don't think that the village idiot could confuse either for the value proposition of the Wii.

    This is simply marketing 101. Differentiate your product so that it fills different needs than those of your competitors. There's no niche here - just a whole bunch of people who look for different things when they play games. Some of them choose Wii, some choose PS3, and some choose 360. They base their choice on what their needs are. Do they need a cheap console? Do they need a console they can play with friends and family? Do they need something to show off that fancy HD set? Need to play neat remote waving sports game they saw Steven Colbert playing with on TV? Need to play online? Need something fun, but are a bit intimidated by these "con-souls"?

    This set of needs a product meets is called a "value proposition", and it's evident to the most brain damaged among us that the current lot of consoles have different value props.

    So differentiation - or meeting different needs than the other products out there - is absolutely critical to any new product introduction. There's a flipside however. "Irrelevant differentiation" is when a product invests in features that a customer doesn't need - indicated by the fact that they're not willing to pay for that differentiation. You may think it's the most amazing thing in the world, but if the customer doesn't pay for it - well fuck it, you lose. I'm sure we all have lots and LOTS of trouble pointing to the standard bearer for this one this gen.

    The entire point of this is that meeting different needs, contrary to the mouth-diarrhea of whoever it is I'm responding to, is in fact one of the most crucial things a successful product can do - whether it's aimed at a niche market or a global market.

    Wow, you did a great job of both proving and disproving my point. My point is that for a vast majority of people who purchase videogames, the three system are in the exact same market. The games that show up on the PS3 and 360 are not "vastly" different from those that show up on the Wii. Some publishers will say that said game "could only be done on console x" and they may be right. Then a few months later they decide that they will sell more if said game was on console y and z as well.

    Now you mentioned differentiation as a way to secure a premium price, and you're absolutely correct. The problem is that these three systems are aiming for the same market. Sure, the 360 may be a bit more targeted to an older audience, and the PS3 and Wii might be more targeted to a general audience, but this sure isn't the luxury car market we are talking about here. We are talking about one market with three different products, all within a few hundred bucks price difference. These three systems are drawing upon basically the same pool of developers for third party games.

    Just look to the past for all of the announcements of both Sony and Microsoft starting to focus more on the casual market. If they really were in a different battle than Nintendo, they wouldn't even bother going after their bread and butter.

    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Titmouse wrote: »
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    What do we think will sell the most for 2007?

    Probably Pokemon though Im talking home consoles.


    GTA4 will be up there. MGS4 if indeed it is rumoured to be out this fall. Halo 3 has gotta shift a few million.
    I doubt MGS4 will be the best selling videogame of 2007 because the sales of MGS3 looked like they suffered because it was released close to another big game. It is also only being released on a console that looks like it won't reach the same amount of people as the 360 by the end of the year. I am going to say it will either be GTA4 because it will be on both consoles with a massive amount of possibly equaling that of Halo 3, or it will be Halo 3 because nearly everybody with a 360 will get it and the amount of hype that Microsoft can create for it.

    Edit: If the price of the Core 360 is dropped, I am sure Nintendo could easily drop the price of the Wii without losing much profit. Do people actually buy the Core?

    MGS4 is not coming out this fall. Maybe the week before christmas, but even then it won't do jack compared to GTA IV and Halo 3.

    Halo 3 has a good shot, but that's if you're going on North American figures alone. If you are going worldwide, then the best selling game this year is going to either be Wii Sports (unless you disqualify it on being a pack in) or GTA IV/one of the Pokemon titles, probably Diamond.

    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • dopplexdopplex Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    The differentiation on the Wii control scheme is pretty damn big. Ubi released Rayman: Raving Rabbids on the 360. Look how well it did minus the key part of it's value prop.

    The need these systems are fulfilling is not "playing games". That's way too broad. What kind of games? What's the makeup of the software library? How do I control it? How's the online play? How does it look? You're getting VERY different answers to these questions on the 360 and the Wii - even if it's the exact same title transposed.

    Look, this is a bit different to adapt to, given that in past generations, a game for one console was generally equally feasible on the others. This just doesn't hold true this time. Yes, you can pretty much choose your platform between the PS3 and the 360 without altering the game much. But if you're targeting the Wii, the game itself needs to change.

    As such, the types of gameplay I can expect if I buy a Wii are qualitatively different than those I can expect buying a 360. It's much more than "they both play games." They play games differently, and any analysis of their market positions needs to take that into account - and that's why the PS3 and the 360 need to be grouped together, but the Wii needs to be evaluated differently. Games for the PS3 and the 360 will often be clones of each other if they're multiplatform - but making a Wii version requires making substantial changes both to control scheme and game engine - if not to the very design of the game.

  • dopplexdopplex Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Even just within the US, Halo 3 would need to achieve a 50% penetration to equal the sales of Wii Sports (assuming install base stays at current ratios - which is unlikely). That may be achieveable, or even likely, but for my money Wii Sports is the likely winner. (Of course, if you restrict it to games released this year, Wii Sports is disqualified)

  • RonenRonen Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Titmouse wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    i would like to tip Halo 3 to be a top-seller, but it's an uncertain vote in light of the sheer mass of Wiis out there.

    Other than possibly Super Mario Galaxy, I can't think of any Wii game being released this year that might become a huge megahit on that level.

    Smash Bros. Brawl?

    Go play MOTHER3

    or Brawl. 4854.6102.3895 Name: NU..
«13456763
Sign In or Register to comment.