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Microsoft revises Xbox 360 Warranty

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    Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2007
    Oh sweet Jesus, thank you! I've been waiting until a good sizeable paycheck so I could get my 360 repaired, and now I don't have to. Guess I'll be calling MS tomorrow and setting up a repair.

    Bionic Monkey on
    sig_megas_armed.jpg
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    PataPata Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    unpurposed wrote: »
    I'm lucky that my 360 hasn't had a single problem since I've had it.

    I hope I'm not jinxing it.

    What is this 3 ring death thing about anyways? I heard something about foam rubber things inside the console that were the main source of the problem. Anyone care to elaborate?

    Essentally the 360 is not desgined that well.

    As the system runs it gets hotter, and a vital part of the motherboard warps due to faulty clamps.

    Pata on
    SRWWSig.pngEpisode 5: Mecha-World, Mecha-nisim, Mecha-beasts
  • Options
    BigRedBigRed Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Pata wrote: »
    unpurposed wrote: »
    I'm lucky that my 360 hasn't had a single problem since I've had it.

    I hope I'm not jinxing it.

    What is this 3 ring death thing about anyways? I heard something about foam rubber things inside the console that were the main source of the problem. Anyone care to elaborate?

    Essentally the 360 is not desgined that well.

    As the system runs it gets hotter, and a vital part of the motherboard warps due to faulty clamps.

    Its funny reading all these "theories" from people online on what they think is wrong with the 360 :P

    BigRed on
    <MoeFwacky> besides, BigRed-Worky is right
  • Options
    PataPata Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Um... it's not a theory.

    Pata on
    SRWWSig.pngEpisode 5: Mecha-World, Mecha-nisim, Mecha-beasts
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    BigRedBigRed Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Pata wrote: »
    Um... it's not a theory.

    Heh, yes it is.
    We know exactly what is wrong with the console, and thats not it so...

    BigRed on
    <MoeFwacky> besides, BigRed-Worky is right
  • Options
    Recoil42Recoil42 Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    So... has anyone realized yet just how cheaply we can get 360's, off of the people who don't know this yet?

    http://search.ebay.com/broken-360

    Buy a broken 360 off of ebay for cheap, get it fixed for free...

    Recoil42 on
  • Options
    KarfKarf The Past Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    BigRed wrote: »
    Pata wrote: »
    Um... it's not a theory.

    Heh, yes it is.
    We know exactly what is wrong with the console, and thats not it so...
    Until they tell us (never) we'll just assume that God hates the 360.

    Karf on
    sig9.gif
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    PataPata Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    It's a simplifaction of what I've read, from communities that have modded 360 hardware.

    Pata on
    SRWWSig.pngEpisode 5: Mecha-World, Mecha-nisim, Mecha-beasts
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    Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Recoil42 wrote: »
    So... has anyone realized yet just how cheaply we can get 360's, off of the people who don't know this yet?

    http://search.ebay.com/broken-360

    Buy a broken 360 off of ebay for cheap, get it fixed for free...

    I used to do this with PS2's with the DRE, until everyone and their mother caught on. If you are going to try this, make damn sure the auction ends in like ten minutes.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
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    BigRedBigRed Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Recoil42 wrote: »
    So... has anyone realized yet just how cheaply we can get 360's, off of the people who don't know this yet?

    http://search.ebay.com/broken-360

    Buy a broken 360 off of ebay for cheap, get it fixed for free...

    hahaha thats actually a good idea. Get it while you can though, im sure they will catch on soon.
    Karf wrote: »
    BigRed wrote: »
    Pata wrote: »
    Um... it's not a theory.

    Heh, yes it is.
    We know exactly what is wrong with the console, and thats not it so...
    Until they tell us (never) we'll just assume that God hates the 360.

    Good plan. Also if your 360 dies god hates you too :P
    Pata wrote: »
    It's a simplifaction of what I've read, from communities that have modded 360 hardware.

    Well it couldnt be farther from teh truth.
    All these people online who claim they know what is wrong with the console are all mostly wrong.

    BigRed on
    <MoeFwacky> besides, BigRed-Worky is right
  • Options
    KarfKarf The Past Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    God hates me as of last Monday.

    But I've know that for, oh, 23 years or so.

    Karf on
    sig9.gif
  • Options
    PataPata Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    BigRed wrote: »
    Pata wrote: »
    It's a simplifaction of what I've read, from communities that have modded 360 hardware.

    Well it couldnt be farther from teh truth.
    All these people online who claim they know what is wrong with the console are all mostly wrong.

    And from fixing thse faults they get their 360s working again?

    Are you telling me that they're all lying?

    Here's a quote from someone discribing the freaking problem in more detail.
    After reading some of the excellent detective work here re the red lights of death and going over the couple of dead consoles here with a microscope, I've come to the conclusion that in most cases the red lights of death is due to a simple design flaw, not to overheating or poor soldering.

    We seem to be seeing consoles where the motherboard has flexed and a few of the solder balls or pads have given way at the corner of the CPU or GPU as pointed out by SMTRework and others.

    Now why would a motherboard flex?

    The answer is the heatsink clamp design.

    If you look at the clamp design, *all* of the pressure to hold the heatsink down is in one tiny point. The centre of the X clamp has a plastic 'spacer button' that sits hard against the bottom of the motherboard and that causes all of the stress to push upwards (towards the bottom centre of both the GPU and the CPU.)

    What is the reaction to that upward force? the corners of the motherboard flexing in the opposite direction.
    Because the motherrboard is not screwed down to the chassis in the areas around the CPU and GPU the natural reaction is for the board to flex downwards slightly because of the pressure in the middle pushing upwards.

    When the console gets hot, the solder balls may become slightly softer allowing the board to flex further and the break occurs.

    Even if the soldering was perfect the poor design of the heatsink clamps means the corners of the CPU and GPU are going to be under tension.

    So perhaps the fix would be to remove the clamps altogether, fit 'screw in' pegs to the chassis and screw down the motherboard and the heatsink so rather than tension being on the board to flex, it is actually encouraged to stay flat. The existing holes in the board where the clamp attached would be ideal.

    So extra cooling and other measures may not do squat unless you remove the tension of the giant pimple trying to push up from the bottom.

    Pata on
    SRWWSig.pngEpisode 5: Mecha-World, Mecha-nisim, Mecha-beasts
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    DashuiDashui Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I just want to know the "real truth" from BigRed, since he's claiming he has all the answers.

    "We know exactly what is wrong with the console, and thats not it so..."
    "All these people online who claim they know what is wrong with the console are all mostly wrong."

    So everyone is wrong but you know exactly what's wrong with the system. Well then, what's the hubbub, bub? What's exactly wrong with the system?

    Dashui on
    Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
  • Options
    chasmchasm Ill-tempered Texan Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    If he's under an ironclad NDA, all he can do is be a cocktease.

    chasm on
    steam_sig.png
    XBL : lJesse Custerl | MWO: Jesse Custer | Best vid ever. | 2nd best vid ever.
  • Options
    BigRedBigRed Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Pata wrote: »
    BigRed wrote: »
    Pata wrote: »
    It's a simplifaction of what I've read, from communities that have modded 360 hardware.

    Well it couldnt be farther from teh truth.
    All these people online who claim they know what is wrong with the console are all mostly wrong.

    And from fixing thse faults they get their 360s working again?

    Are you telling me that they're all lying?

    Here's a quote from someone discribing the freaking problem in more detail.
    After reading some of the excellent detective work here re the red lights of death and going over the couple of dead consoles here with a microscope, I've come to the conclusion that in most cases the red lights of death is due to a simple design flaw, not to overheating or poor soldering.

    We seem to be seeing consoles where the motherboard has flexed and a few of the solder balls or pads have given way at the corner of the CPU or GPU as pointed out by SMTRework and others.

    Now why would a motherboard flex?

    The answer is the heatsink clamp design.

    If you look at the clamp design, *all* of the pressure to hold the heatsink down is in one tiny point. The centre of the X clamp has a plastic 'spacer button' that sits hard against the bottom of the motherboard and that causes all of the stress to push upwards (towards the bottom centre of both the GPU and the CPU.)

    What is the reaction to that upward force? the corners of the motherboard flexing in the opposite direction.
    Because the motherrboard is not screwed down to the chassis in the areas around the CPU and GPU the natural reaction is for the board to flex downwards slightly because of the pressure in the middle pushing upwards.

    When the console gets hot, the solder balls may become slightly softer allowing the board to flex further and the break occurs.

    Even if the soldering was perfect the poor design of the heatsink clamps means the corners of the CPU and GPU are going to be under tension.

    So perhaps the fix would be to remove the clamps altogether, fit 'screw in' pegs to the chassis and screw down the motherboard and the heatsink so rather than tension being on the board to flex, it is actually encouraged to stay flat. The existing holes in the board where the clamp attached would be ideal.

    So extra cooling and other measures may not do squat unless you remove the tension of the giant pimple trying to push up from the bottom.

    They were close, but no cigar. It doesnt have to do with the heatsink clamps.

    The clamps arent pulling on the motherboard, they are pulling the heatsink down, and therefore pulling the cpu/gpu into the mobo evenmore. The clamps dont cause it to flex in the way they are describing. The pressure is centered on the core of the cpu/gpu and directly underneath it. Pushing in that one spot on the PCB isnt enough to flex the whole board...

    Its most likely just a coincidence that in removing the clamps they did Indeed flex the board (those things are a bitch to get off without the proper tools) and it reset a few connections.

    As I said we know exactly what is wrong, and it doesn't have to do with teh heatsink attachments.

    BigRed on
    <MoeFwacky> besides, BigRed-Worky is right
  • Options
    BigRedBigRed Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    chasm953 wrote: »
    If he's under an ironclad NDA, all he can do is be a cocktease.

    Yeah thats about all I can do. I can dismiss theories but cant really reveal/say much. Although most people dont understand or actually follow NDA's, and I would like to keep my awesome job kthx :)

    BigRed on
    <MoeFwacky> besides, BigRed-Worky is right
  • Options
    KarfKarf The Past Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Guys, I don't know why we're still talking about this.

    I confirmed that god hates everyone who's 360 has died.

    God did it.

    Karf on
    sig9.gif
  • Options
    desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    BigRed wrote: »
    Pata wrote: »
    Um... it's not a theory.

    Heh, yes it is.
    We know exactly what is wrong with the console, and thats not it so...

    This is awesome and all, you know, that you're all "on top of it" or whatever, but when my console has red-ringed 3 times before being properly repaired your comments don't exactly fill me with confidence.

    desperaterobots on
  • Options
    BigRedBigRed Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Karf wrote: »
    Guys, I don't know why we're still talking about this.

    I confirmed that god hates everyone who's 360 has died.

    God did it.

    This guy needs a cookie.

    BigRed on
    <MoeFwacky> besides, BigRed-Worky is right
  • Options
    randombattlerandombattle Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    chasm953 wrote: »
    If he's under an ironclad NDA, all he can do is be a cocktease.

    Or he's just bsing like he knows :P

    randombattle on
    itsstupidbutidontcare2.gif
    I never asked for this!
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    DashuiDashui Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Karf wrote: »
    Guys, I don't know why we're still talking about this.

    I confirmed that god hates everyone who's 360 has died.

    God did it.

    This is proof that the atheists are wrong and stupid! Conform and have working Xbox 360s! Praise Jesus.

    Dashui on
    Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
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    SushisourceSushisource Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    BigRed wrote: »
    chasm953 wrote: »
    If he's under an ironclad NDA, all he can do is be a cocktease.

    Yeah thats about all I can do. I can dismiss theories but cant really reveal/say much. Although most people dont understand or actually follow NDA's, and I would like to keep my awesome job kthx :)


    Can you at least tell us what part? Is it a problem with the chips themselves, or the installation of them?

    Sushisource on
    Some drugee on Kavinsky's 1986
    kavinskysig.gif
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    KarfKarf The Past Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    BigRed wrote: »
    Karf wrote: »
    Guys, I don't know why we're still talking about this.

    I confirmed that god hates everyone who's 360 has died.

    God did it.

    This guy needs a cookie.
    Get some guys from Microsoft on my podcast, and I'll give cookies to all.

    But I eated them, so.

    Karf on
    sig9.gif
  • Options
    BigRedBigRed Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    BigRed wrote: »
    Pata wrote: »
    Um... it's not a theory.

    Heh, yes it is.
    We know exactly what is wrong with the console, and thats not it so...

    This is awesome and all, you know, that you're all "on top of it" or whatever, but when my console has red-ringed 3 times before being properly repaired your comments don't exactly fill me with confidence.

    You are saying it was sent for repair 3 times? or shows 3x 3 red rings before it was sent in?

    BigRed on
    <MoeFwacky> besides, BigRed-Worky is right
  • Options
    chasmchasm Ill-tempered Texan Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    chasm953 wrote: »
    If he's under an ironclad NDA, all he can do is be a cocktease.

    Or he's just bsing like he knows :P

    I like to give everyone an out.:lol:

    chasm on
    steam_sig.png
    XBL : lJesse Custerl | MWO: Jesse Custer | Best vid ever. | 2nd best vid ever.
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    redfield85redfield85 Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Could a problem with either the Harddrive or power cables cause a ring of death?

    My first 360, bought in august last year and died around april/may this year. It gave me fuzzy screens and funny noises and then the red lights. I returned it to EB with my warranty and got a new console. I kept the Harddrive and power cables. About a week or so later, I tried out my second 360 and the first thing I got was the red lights and an error message. Not wanting to let this happen, I turned the 360 off and on a few times and got it to work fine (this was when the Halo 3 beta just came out and I wasn't going to miss that).

    So, now it might take 2-3 tries or none to turn my 360 on. Could be a coincidence that this one broke right away or it could be the HD or power cables (if possible).

    Either way, I will be sending my 360 in probably next weekend (which will probably be stupid on my part with everyone else sending theirs). I haven't played my 360 in probably a month or two. DS ftw. :lol:

    redfield85 on
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    BigRedBigRed Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    redfield85 wrote: »
    Could a problem with either the Harddrive or power cables cause a ring of death?

    My first 360, bought in august last year and died around april/may this year. It gave me fuzzy screens and funny noises and then the red lights. I returned it to EB with my warranty and got a new console. I kept the Harddrive and power cables. About a week or so later, I tried out my second 360 and the first thing I got was the red lights and an error message. Not wanting to let this happen, I turned the 360 off and on a few times and got it to work fine (this was when the Halo 3 beta just came out and I wasn't going to miss that).

    So, now it might take 2-3 tries or none to turn my 360 on. Could be a coincidence that this one broke right away or it could be the HD or power cables (if possible).

    Either way, I will be sending my 360 in probably next weekend (which will probably be stupid on my part with everyone else sending theirs). I haven't played my 360 in probably a month or two. DS ftw. :lol:

    Nope.

    Hard drive/optical drive errors will show a light in the lower right corner and an on screen error E-60 or somthing simlair.

    BigRed on
    <MoeFwacky> besides, BigRed-Worky is right
  • Options
    SushisourceSushisource Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    BigRed wrote: »
    chasm953 wrote: »
    If he's under an ironclad NDA, all he can do is be a cocktease.

    Yeah thats about all I can do. I can dismiss theories but cant really reveal/say much. Although most people dont understand or actually follow NDA's, and I would like to keep my awesome job kthx :)


    Can you at least tell us what part? Is it a problem with the chips themselves, or the installation of them?

    X treme bottomfed

    Sushisource on
    Some drugee on Kavinsky's 1986
    kavinskysig.gif
  • Options
    desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    BigRed wrote: »
    BigRed wrote: »
    Pata wrote: »
    Um... it's not a theory.

    Heh, yes it is.
    We know exactly what is wrong with the console, and thats not it so...

    This is awesome and all, you know, that you're all "on top of it" or whatever, but when my console has red-ringed 3 times before being properly repaired your comments don't exactly fill me with confidence.

    You are saying it was sent for repair 3 times? or shows 3x 3 red rings before it was sent in?

    3 times sent in. Nov 06, Apr 07, and when I got my box back the second time it lasted 2 days before red-ringing again. Same serial number on the box.
    EDIT: Dates.

    desperaterobots on
  • Options
    BigRedBigRed Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    BigRed wrote: »
    BigRed wrote: »
    Pata wrote: »
    Um... it's not a theory.

    Heh, yes it is.
    We know exactly what is wrong with the console, and thats not it so...

    This is awesome and all, you know, that you're all "on top of it" or whatever, but when my console has red-ringed 3 times before being properly repaired your comments don't exactly fill me with confidence.

    You are saying it was sent for repair 3 times? or shows 3x 3 red rings before it was sent in?

    3 times sent in. Nov 06, Apr 06, and when I got my box back the second time it lasted 2 days before red-ringing again. Same serial number on the box.

    Well things were pretty bad with the repair process. I cant really say much but that it looks like you got the short end of the stick. That sucks man :(
    At least things are a lot better now.

    BigRed on
    <MoeFwacky> besides, BigRed-Worky is right
  • Options
    FreddyDFreddyD Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    BigRed wrote: »
    BigRed wrote: »
    Pata wrote: »
    Um... it's not a theory.

    Heh, yes it is.
    We know exactly what is wrong with the console, and thats not it so...

    This is awesome and all, you know, that you're all "on top of it" or whatever, but when my console has red-ringed 3 times before being properly repaired your comments don't exactly fill me with confidence.

    You are saying it was sent for repair 3 times? or shows 3x 3 red rings before it was sent in?

    3 times sent in. Nov 06, Apr 07, and when I got my box back the second time it lasted 2 days before red-ringing again. Same serial number on the box.
    EDIT: Dates.
    You swapped out your power brick each time right?

    FreddyD on
  • Options
    desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    BigRed wrote: »
    BigRed wrote: »
    BigRed wrote: »
    Pata wrote: »
    Um... it's not a theory.

    Heh, yes it is.
    We know exactly what is wrong with the console, and thats not it so...

    This is awesome and all, you know, that you're all "on top of it" or whatever, but when my console has red-ringed 3 times before being properly repaired your comments don't exactly fill me with confidence.

    You are saying it was sent for repair 3 times? or shows 3x 3 red rings before it was sent in?

    3 times sent in. Nov 06, Apr 06, and when I got my box back the second time it lasted 2 days before red-ringing again. Same serial number on the box.

    Well things were pretty bad with the repair process. I cant really say much but that it looks like you got the short end of the stick. That sucks man :(
    At least things are a lot better now.

    Indeed. I'm very happy about the warranty changes. Sadly I'd be a fool if I didn't remain skeptical that you guys know exactly what the problem is when six months after one repair my system is experiencing another "general" failure. I mean, the first repair must have been good if it worked for that long?

    The 360 might be an electronic onion which whilst peeled reveals even more crisp, tear inducing problems.

    desperaterobots on
  • Options
    desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    FreddyD wrote: »
    BigRed wrote: »
    BigRed wrote: »
    Pata wrote: »
    Um... it's not a theory.

    Heh, yes it is.
    We know exactly what is wrong with the console, and thats not it so...

    This is awesome and all, you know, that you're all "on top of it" or whatever, but when my console has red-ringed 3 times before being properly repaired your comments don't exactly fill me with confidence.

    You are saying it was sent for repair 3 times? or shows 3x 3 red rings before it was sent in?

    3 times sent in. Nov 06, Apr 07, and when I got my box back the second time it lasted 2 days before red-ringing again. Same serial number on the box.
    EDIT: Dates.
    You swapped out your power brick each time right?

    The power brick works and was not requested by Microsoft, so no.

    desperaterobots on
  • Options
    ThreepioThreepio New Westminster, BCRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    You know, BigRed, I'd love to trust you.

    But seriously - how the fuck can someone get and keep a job at Microsoft when they CONSTANTLY misspell the word "the".

    In this thread alone you've a) maintained that Xbox failure rates aren't that bad, b) maintained that all of the recorded evidence that folks have regarding what they believe to be the problem with the 360 is wrong and c) used the word "teh" in nearly ever post.

    Pony up and quit being coy. If you really work for "Teh MSeses": spit some figures on the defective rate. Give us a concise explanation as to what's wrong with it - and back it up. And for Christ's sake, buy a Macintosh and use the built-in spellchecker.

    Threepio on
    142.jpg
  • Options
    SushisourceSushisource Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I.. I think that last part was a little harsh Threepio.

    I mean, that's just a few steps above stealing candy from babies while wearing a horrible mask.



    PCs have built in spell checkers if you use Firefox.

    Don't put me in the cantina.

    Sushisource on
    Some drugee on Kavinsky's 1986
    kavinskysig.gif
  • Options
    FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2007
    I mean seriously, make with the details (post anonymously), otherwise you are just another "my uncle's brother's wife works at Bungie and she saw..."

    FyreWulff on
  • Options
    Dublo7Dublo7 Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Three year warranty? Holy crap. That's pretty much unheard in the electronics world.

    Dublo7 on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    KarrmerKarrmer Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Dublo7 wrote: »
    Three year warranty? Holy crap. That's pretty much unheard in the electronics world.

    So is the horrifically bad failure rate of this electronic device and the terrible customer service and ridiculousness of having to send a single console in to be repaired (and having to pay each time) over ten times.

    Karrmer on
  • Options
    JetBlackCenterJetBlackCenter Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Looks like I'm buying a 360 now. Rock!

    JetBlackCenter on
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    BRAWL CODE: 3866-7685-8500
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    Dublo7Dublo7 Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Karrmer wrote: »
    Dublo7 wrote: »
    Three year warranty? Holy crap. That's pretty much unheard in the electronics world.

    So is the horrifically bad failure rate of this electronic device and the terrible customer service and ridiculousness of having to send a single console in to be repaired (and having to pay each time) over ten times.
    Touche`

    Dublo7 on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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