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Do Achievements add replay value or are they Checklist?

dragonsamadragonsama Registered User regular
edited July 2007 in Games and Technology
Like all threads I start there has to be some type of story so here it is. Don’t worry its not a novel… this time.

The debt problem I had was very well advertised throughout the forum. In fact I was pretty much selling off my game collection to pay it off and many forumers helped out and bought my stuff. Mainly because you all are great guys and willing to help out one of your own when they are in need. Well I got a bit of good news this week and I just got a new job offer and it pays a whole heck of a lot more than my current job. Needless to say I jumped on it and in 3 weeks will be starting a new and exciting career.

My wife decided to get me a little present to celebrate my new found fortune. When I came home from work last night I found something waiting for me. Namely an X-box 360 Elite with Dead or Alive 4, Transformers the game, 1 year of live, and 1600 Microsoft points. God I love this woman! So while she was painting her latest masterpiece I decided to hook up the 360, set up live, and proceeded to have giant transforming robots start kicking each other asses.

This is when I started to notice something I wasn’t used to. After starting the game I was told to hunt down the Decepticons as the crash landed. So I transform into a car and I get a pop up message saying “achievement unlocked Transform and roll out”. Whaa??? Well I decided to reset out to the dashboard to see what is up and I see I am starting to amass a gamer score. And I see that I can look at the achievements let to achieve for the rest of the game.

Well I am a questioning person by nature so I started to think “Do achievements add replay value and make me want to go a little bit faster hit a little bit harder or are they a checklist of what I need to do in order to consider this game beaten?” .

Don’t get me wrong I love the idea of achievements but I am just wondering if these goals add something to the overall game or are they something to keep you playing your 360 and forget about other games on other systems. Also other than “wow that is a nice score” does your gamer score do anything for you on live?[/FONT]

TL;DR: Got a new job, wife bought me a 360, played transformers and unlocked an achievement, looked a achievement list, thought “Do achievements add replay value and make me want to go a little bit faster hit a little bit harder or are they a checklist of what I need to do in order to consider this game beaten?”, does your gamer score do anything for you other than a score?

Also this thread can double as “talk about your best most fun achievements” , “recommend some good live and retail 360 games" and how do I set up a custom dashboard via my PC” too.

And my gamertag is DragonSamaMach1 if anyone wants to play me somtime.

dragonsama on
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Posts

  • SamphisSamphis Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I love achievements. I try to get all of them in the games I own and want to play, but I'm not about to go rent or buy games just to get easy achievements. I like a challenge, and the reward is great. Plus, I can show off my badges of honor to my friends.

  • GyralGyral Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I think it depends on what type of person you are. Myself, if I see an achievement I can do, I'll put in a little effort to get it while I play, but I'm not going to ruin my game experience trying to unlock everything.

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  • Dr Mario KartDr Mario Kart Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    The replay value is already there. There have always been hard modes and high score seekers and obscure in game tasks to do. Its just bait for the lazy.

    Or a checklist.

  • RancedRanced Default Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    It's another form of the "I gotta get a highscore" mentality. If people love it, I can see why.

    If people hate it, that's something I can't understand. It's just a number, after all.

    I'm personally indifferent to it. It's nice that it's there though.

  • bombboybombboy Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Checklist for me.

    XBL - BombBoyGT | PSN - BombBoyGT | Steam - BombBoy | BF4
  • CyberJackalCyberJackal Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    They can be a fun thing on the side. Sometimes they can encourage me to put a little more effort into some task or level, but I don't obsess over them.

  • Elessar ElfstoneElessar Elfstone Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Achievements can be awesome, when implemented right. I love em cause they often encourage you to try things you wouldn't otherwise do, for example the achievement in SOTN to beat Bloodlines without taking damage. It was a fun little challenge that I otherwise wouldn't have put myself up to. I hear Crackdown is great in this regard too, the achievements challenge you to try new things and do stuff in different ways.

    Of course, many games use achievements purely as "checklist" too. Gears of War is an example.

    Tobias: Or it could be your colon. I'd want to get in there and find some answers.

    Forsake, Warlock of Stonemaul
  • Sacred CowSacred Cow Registered User
    edited July 2007
    depends on the game and the achievements.

    games like PoP Classic with its "Finish without dying" goal will haunt my dreams. but got damned it, i will get it.

    then there are games like gears of war. i will never ever ever ever ever get any of those damn ".....while playing a ranked match" ones. i'll probably never get the Dom ones either. everyone i'm interested in playing co-op with has already beaten the game 20 times over and has no intrest in helping me finish those off.

    SacredCowJebus.png

    SSB code- 0216-0856-6886 PM me so I can add you
  • SamphisSamphis Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Crackdown indeed has the single best set of achievements of any game that I've played. I'm currently playing through Overlord now, too and they are funny, but kind of checklisty.

  • jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I'm not sure that they're either. I don't care about the gamerscore, but I'll browse the list and on more than one occassion an achievement has given me a goal (Aegis Wing's "Ace" achievement was like this for me...it was no longer enough to beat the game without dying, I wanted to get that 185,000 just because I knew it was possible and it'd be difficult to do). Other times I'll look at the list and think "playing like that never occurred to me (Band of Bugs's "Wet Bug Smell" achievement clued me in to the fact that Maal's Shove command probably wasn't as worthless as I'd thought and Spider-Man 3's "Fast Swinger" made me want to swing fast because I had no idea that I could get up to 200 MPH).

  • LunkerLunker Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Honestly, my opinion has waffled a bit since I actually got a 360.

    It is a strange sense of geek pride; I don't mean the Gamerscore itself, I could give a shit about the arbirary point values associated to the tasks, but the percentage of Achievements themselves is tantalizing. I love shmups, and I want nothing more than to get all of the Achievements in Geometry Wars, Heavy Weapon, Aegis Wing, etc. And it's not even really the fact that they're on display for other people to see, although I'm sure that's part of it -- I want them because they're challenges set up by the game itself.

    The trick, of course, is that the Achievements actually make sense/aren't bullshit. The Geometry Wars ones are a good example: Most of them are either reaching a score milestone (250k, 500k, 1m) or hitting the milestone without dying. Those are ones you would get by playing normally anyway. But the other ones actually change the way you play the game: The "Pacifism" Achievement is unlocked by surviving for 60 seconds without firing. I decided to try it out, and it drastically changes the way the game plays. (Well, for 60 seconds, anyway.) And then the (Quartermaster?) Achievement (I forget the name) is unlocked by amassing 9 smart bombs, which means you have to survive long enough to score points without using any bombs.

    Things like that are cool: They're challenges just there for people who want more out of the game, or want a different way to play it. If there were Achievements in the next Legend of Zelda game, you can bet one of them will be "Three-heart run," or in a Metroid game it'd be "Finish in under 5 hours" or " finish without the Ice Beam." But the entire aggregate nature of Gamerscore is just kind of goofy, because it implies cross-game comparisons of skill. Example: in Guitar Hero II the insanely difficult "Beat Jordan on Expert" Achievement is worth 30 points. You can also earn 30 points in Madden '06 by ... scoring a touchdown in an offline game.

    Also, I'm really in the minority here, but I freaking love the concept of the insanely difficult leaderboard/online ranking based Achievements. A lot of 360 owners have the mentality that they're entitled to all of the Achievements, and they cry when there are bullshit/difficult goals to reach. But hey, if the developers think the guy who's good enough to be the No. 1 ranked player in a game deserves an Achievement, then make it so. And if you see people who actually just left their 360 on for eight hours straight solely to get the Committed Achievement, then they deserve the ridicule they get.

    ... oh, and to answer your other question directly: Gamerscore does nothing other than make you feel better about yourself. You can't trade them in for MS Points or anything, although there has been at least one sponsored contest where in a certain time period, an X gain in Gamerscore got people prizes.

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  • EdcrabEdcrab Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Yeah, it's very much an objective issue, but personally achievements remind me of my approach towards bothering with 100% completion rates in sprawling titles: i.e., interesting to come across, but not something I'll invest any real time into, or feel much pride over.

    I prefer things like that if they're humorous or unique: a bit like how some MP games "award" titles like "Most Cowardly" or "Suicide King" or "Most Dedicated Homophobic Spammer".

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  • Hotlead JunkieHotlead Junkie Registered User
    edited July 2007
    I finished Dead Rising 3 times ans was looking for any excuse to play it again because I enjoy the game so much, so I noticed there was an achivement for saving over 50 survivors so I made it my mission to do that while suplexing zombies to heavy metal rock music. During that game I went out of my way to grab some other achivements too because I had to wait around for about 16 ingame hours.

    I usually do off-the wall stuff in games when I want another excuse to play them, I bet there would be an achivement for taking down El Gigante with a knife in Resident Evil 4 if it was on the 360, or playing through God Hand without picking up items or something similar. I like to challenge myself in games I really enjoy and sometimes going for an achivement is somthing different, challenging and fun I can try and get proof that I actually did it.

    Sometimes it's just a nice surprise to get a message saying that you kicked serious ass by killing 10 players in a row without dying in Rainbow 6 Vegas multiplayer, but most of the time I usually ignore achivements, only if they spark my interest. Speaking of Dead Rising though, I'd be willing to try and get every achivement in that simply because I love the game and want to get the most playtime out of it.

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  • The Burnin8orThe Burnin8or Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    dragonsama wrote: »

    This is when I started to notice something I wasn’t used to. After starting the game I was told to hunt down the Decepticons as the crash landed. So I transform into a car and I get a pop up message saying “achievement unlocked Transform and roll out”. Whaa??? Well I decided to reset out to the dashboard to see what is up and I see I am starting to amass a gamer score. And I see that I can look at the achievements let to achieve for the rest of the game.


    Just a note, you don't actually need to exit out of the game to check those kinds of things. If you get any kind of pop up notification like that (achievement unlocked, friend logs on), if you hit the guide button when that happens, you will be taken to a screen related to that specific item (so, in your case, you would have been taken to the achievement list for Transformers). If you hit the guide button any other time mid game, you will just be taken to the start of that interface, where you have access to those other items. Also, normally, when you hit the guide button mid game, it will pause the game automatically for you, but DOA4 doesn't, for some odd reason, so keep that in mind while playing it . . .

  • RancedRanced Default Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    and uh

    the pop up window should be enough to tell you why you got it

  • The Burnin8orThe Burnin8or Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Ranced wrote: »
    and uh

    the pop up window should be enough to tell you why you got it


    True enough, since that update that added the title of the achievement as well as the score associated. If you wanted the specific details, you would still have to go to the list though (assuming they decided to list the details there and not a vague description).

  • EchoEcho staring is caring Moderator mod
    edited July 2007
    God the OP is annoying to read with shitty Arial. :x

    edit: there, now I can read it without feeling skullfucked.

  • ThreepioThreepio New Westminster, BCRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Ranced wrote: »
    and uh

    the pop up window should be enough to tell you why you got it

    It is now. Before it was all "Achievement Unlocked" with the subtext of "ooooh, we ain't tellin' you which! Press the jewel! Go on! Press it! It's in the list. There, you pressed and now you know, don't you feel better?"

    To me they're a bit checklisty, but it doesn't stop me from trying to get them. I recognize some of them are outside of my scope and/or patience level, so I write them off.

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  • GihgehlsGihgehls Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I never ever look at the list of achievments when I play a game. They pop up and I'm like "ooo neat" and then I forget about them.

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  • musanmanmusanman Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    BF2 has a super elaborate medal system. It's cool to be playing and then hear the drumroll and get a tank medal. When you do it naturally it's really fun and rewarding. When you look at what the achievement requries and do nothing but strive for it that's when it stops being fun.

    I'm not terribly concerned if I have all the badges and medals, but when I get them I'm happy and it's cool to look back at.

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  • RancedRanced Default Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    musanman wrote: »
    BF2 has a super elaborate medal system. It's cool to be playing and then hear the drumroll and get a tank medal. When you do it naturally it's really fun and rewarding. When you look at what the achievement requries and do nothing but strive for it that's when it stops being fun.

    See, I don't understand this way of thinking.

    It's an extra feature added to games. It's for fun. Don't go for achievements then, if you don't like it.

  • musanmanmusanman Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Ranced wrote: »
    musanman wrote: »
    BF2 has a super elaborate medal system. It's cool to be playing and then hear the drumroll and get a tank medal. When you do it naturally it's really fun and rewarding. When you look at what the achievement requries and do nothing but strive for it that's when it stops being fun.

    See, I don't understand this way of thinking.

    It's an extra feature added to games. It's for fun. Don't go for achievements then, if you don't like it.

    I...don't strive for them. I just said it's fun when they naturally show up. I don't go straight for them because I don't care to spend all my time getting knife kills, it ruins the fun.

    Did you read my post or are you just looking for somebody to yell at for being a stat whore?

    sic2sig.jpg
  • RancedRanced Default Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    musanman wrote: »
    Ranced wrote: »
    musanman wrote: »
    BF2 has a super elaborate medal system. It's cool to be playing and then hear the drumroll and get a tank medal. When you do it naturally it's really fun and rewarding. When you look at what the achievement requries and do nothing but strive for it that's when it stops being fun.

    See, I don't understand this way of thinking.

    It's an extra feature added to games. It's for fun. Don't go for achievements then, if you don't like it.

    I...don't strive for them. I just said it's fun when they naturally show up. I don't go straight for them because I don't care to spend all my time getting knife kills, it ruins the fun.

    Did you read my post or are you just looking for somebody to yell at for being a stat whore?

    Hm

    I didn't realize I was yelling.

    What I'm saying is, yes, they give you the achievements that you need to get, but if you don't want them, you can simply not follow them. Most achievements are gained as you progress anyway, it would seem.

  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    My best achievement in DOA4 can only be inferred from my other achievements. It has no medal all its own. They really should patch in a "You did the fucking Raijin throw" achievement.

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  • jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I think the one I'm proudest of is "Ace" in Aegis Wing. I'm not convinced that it's possible to get more than about 190,000 in a single run and you need 185,000 to get the achievement.

  • SamphisSamphis Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I got all of them in Marble Blast Ultra. That is one of my proudest gaming accomplishments.

  • AllforceAllforce Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    My friend and I were talking and I'm willing to bet this is a consideration for the Fall Update with Sony pulling it off with Home, but certain achievements in certain games should give you gamerpics to use on your profile. It'd be cool to see someone with a gamerpic I know I could never get for something he accomplished in a game.

    The HOME concept of trophies is cool, but I couldn't see myself wandering into someones "apartment" to look at all their trophies. With Live I do the "compare" games thing with friends, its like 2 clicks and I can see what they've pulled off in a game and what I can shoot for. It's like a friendly competition.

  • RancedRanced Default Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Gears of War gives you a gamerpic if you get the Commando Achievement. That's a start I guess.

  • The Burnin8orThe Burnin8or Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Allforce wrote: »
    My friend and I were talking and I'm willing to bet this is a consideration for the Fall Update with Sony pulling it off with Home, but certain achievements in certain games should give you gamerpics to use on your profile. It'd be cool to see someone with a gamerpic I know I could never get for something he accomplished in a game.

    They can do this now. If you beat Gears of War on insane, you get a special gamerpic. You also get another for one of the other achievements in the game (the 10,000 kill one I think). I should be more widespread though . .

  • AllforceAllforce Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Yeah I remember that. The convo started by my friend seeing my playing Transformers and commented that the achievement icons he could see on my profile were awesome.

    I suppose giving them out for free after you've bought the game wouldn't let them nickel and dime you for paying for them on the marketplace.

    Now that I think about, there's quite a few other games that give you icons too, they just don't let you know about them until you go into your gamerpic files and look for yourself. I'm always surprised to see a bunch of new ones in there when I check.

  • dragonsamadragonsama Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    See that was one of the things I wondered. If the achievements really did anything other than say "you did this nice job! now go do this other stuff" . at least hearing that I can get some cool new gamer-pics from some games makes doing them a little more worthwhile to me now.
    Echo wrote: »
    God the OP is annoying to read with shitty Arial.

    edit: there, now I can read it without feeling skullfucked.

    Sorry I typed up the post in Word. I do that for almost every post I make anymore so I don't make messed up spelling mistakes. From now one I'll be sure to set the font to Verdana.

  • jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Allforce wrote: »
    Yeah I remember that. The convo started by my friend seeing my playing Transformers and commented that the achievement icons he could see on my profile were awesome.

    I suppose giving them out for free after you've bought the game wouldn't let them nickel and dime you for paying for them on the marketplace.

    Now that I think about, there's quite a few other games that give you icons too, they just don't let you know about them until you go into your gamerpic files and look for yourself. I'm always surprised to see a bunch of new ones in there when I check.

    I like the way Ninja Bee games do it. When I get an achievement I get a little "Hooray for me!" popup telling me what I earned and how I earned it. Same thing applies to gamerpics. I think I earned two in Band of Bugs, and so far I've earned one in Outpost Kaloki X.

  • ZephosZephos Climbin in yo ski lifts, snatchin your people up. MichiganRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I was just going to make a thread on achievements, as my score has just topped 10k (the image in my sig is out of date because its a bitch to get the 360 online with dialup.)

    Personally, i love the hell out of achievements. In fact, even though i had beat tomb raider legend months ago, i picked it up again to attempt all the time trial achievements and whatnot.

    really as for adding replay value, it really depends on the game. I mean like, the TMNT game all the achievements can be earned in a single play through (4 hours). Or hell, i'm not ashamed to admit even though i hate basketball, and therefore any game based on the sport, i rented NBA 2k6, and earned all 1000 points in less than a 1/2 hour.

    but yeah, i'm a huge fan and supporter of the system, its not for everyone, and if you dont like them, fine. I for one feel that its great fun to try and get that elusive whatever achievement. Even though there really isnt anyway to show it off. I mean honestly even if your interested in achievements and comparing them to other peoples who really checks more than the base score?

    Xbox One/360: Penguin McCool
  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Man, fuck Hexic...

    Check out the achievements for that one, and then play it for about 10min...

  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I have a love/hate relationship with achievements. I like them when I can get all of them because they satisfy my completionist urges. I hate them when games have achievements that are so hard that I have no desire or ability to ever accomplish them. Crap like "play 500 games on Live" is just ridiculous, and I feel like all these missing achievements are like a black mark on my account. I couldn't care less about Gamerscore, it's more a measure of how many games you own than anything.

    My chief complaint is with games that use achievements as an excuse not to put any real unlockables in the game. That's just lazy.

  • ZephosZephos Climbin in yo ski lifts, snatchin your people up. MichiganRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    i do hate online achievements, even when i had broadband its like, fuck this, its really really lame. Especially now that i'm on dial-up and it'll freeze the system if i even try to navigate to my friends list. (not that i would try and play a game like this.)

    Xbox One/360: Penguin McCool
  • BiggNifeBiggNife Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Man, fuck Hexic...

    Check out the achievements for that one, and then play it for about 10min...

    Yeah, fuck those score achievements. Theyre ridiculous.

    I do like achievements, because it gives me the incentive to play the game more. For some reason I get satisfaction out of getting points. I just wish more games had a even mix of easy and hard achievements. Some great games have achievements that take forever to get (like Oblivion) while some meh games have ridiculously easy achievements (TMNT).

  • ZephosZephos Climbin in yo ski lifts, snatchin your people up. MichiganRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    to answer the OP about customizing your dashboard, the easiest way i know is to just put the image you want (can only do 1 at a time, and it goes behind every blade) on a flash drive and put it into the USB drive, from the media blade you can view it from portable device and set the particular image you want as the background.

    Xbox One/360: Penguin McCool
  • XieflowXieflow Registered User
    edited July 2007
    It depends on the game. A lot of the shitty, half-assed games just give you achievements for each level in the single player, and each increment of X ranked matches online. The fun achievements are the ones in games like Crackdown and Dead Rising. Those achievements add a lot of replay value, and get you to try things you wouldn't even have thought of trying. I also love the idea of the viral achievements, even though I haven't got any yet.

  • ZephosZephos Climbin in yo ski lifts, snatchin your people up. MichiganRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    i loved crackdowns achievements.

    they were just a blast to get. (no pun intended.)



    Edit: Viral achievements are pretty cool. I earned the "6 degrees of small arms" or whatever the first night it was released though.

    Xbox One/360: Penguin McCool
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