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[PHALLA]SP13 - How I learned to stop worrying and love the Dwarf Bomb (Traitor Win!)
Posts
Welcome to the world on this side.
But seriously, all the huge random kills really tore us up. The villagers really got a huge disadvantage right on day 3, not to mention today.
Also, I wish I had bloody went with my gut feeling and tried to get Drez killed. Too many of his puppets around though.
The villagers had control of a lot of kills, they just didn't use them effectively. Out of four vigilantes, you were the only one to hit a traitor, ever.
By my count, there were four security officer kills, two atmo tech kills, two toxins kills, and two prison staff kills (EP Gamma) available which the traitors had no direct influence over. The traitors really lucked out when they killed spaik (Toxins) night 1, because not only did they negate those two kills until the Toxins Researcher was replaced (far too late, which was my fault for making EP Beta too hard to activate), control of EP Alpha went from 3/5 innocent to 50% traitors. Even so, if they had gotten their act together and set it off night 2 they would have gotten 1 traitor instead of zero (although, it might not have mattered too much since the three random kills would have had much greater odds of hitting crew at that stage).
I think the biggest reason the crew lost so badly was because they were trying to play this like a regular game where you just wait on the network to do it all for you.
I blame the failure of the activation of the Doug Protocols.
Plus, I totally killed Senior Fish last night.
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It's true. People were dumbasses and used their one shot abilities before we actually needed them. Early kills do not up the odds for the villagers, they just make the game shorter. Which in turn is bad for the villagers, as they get less time to figure the game out.
The pieces were just starting to fall together for me. If I had had a couple more nights and one more vigilante kill I could have screwed things up for the traitors.
But yeah, it wasn't your fault we got crushed FWD. It was the fact that the traitors were more experienced than us. Though the bomb did seem imbalanced, could you share the mechanics of it?
You could die night one, and lose your chance to use it at all.
Three out of five players (four Engineers and the Toxins Researcher) were required to activate it, and two of those five were traitors. There were five targeted kills, plus three RNG kills that no one knew about.
I guess I assumed that since the traitors would never be able to activate it by themselves it would work out okay, but that was obviously not the case.
By the way, were the prison guys a mason network?
I'm usually a low-laying player until day 3 or so when I make a long and glaring accusation. I got so tied up in the EPA on day 4 I didn't even get a chance to vote and thereafter my attention was devoted to convincing another engineer that my EPA bomb list was solid.
After the toxins researcher died it was impossible for the bomb itself to be good for the innocents. To send a list through it would have to go through either robothero or myself. DA was pretty much dead accurate when he said it was too easy for traitors to influence the list.
That was the intent. The suicide pact thing was to prevent them from going public to form a network, which is a typical move for masons.
I was sure that there was one traitor among the EPA people I just wasn't expecting two of them to be bad guys (and to be the two names that the honest EPAers never revealed)
There really should have been only one traitorous engineer. I should have made one of the Forensics Officers a traitor instead.
This is true, but my point still stands. Without a strong hunch, we might well have been better off with them dying before they used their one time ability. It is a dangerous gamble to wait with your ability, but the longer you wait the bigger the chance is of actually hitting baddies.
Throwing it on turn three and killing nothing but innocents did not help us. If they had a good reason to use it but had been tricked by the traitors, then that is another matter altogether of course.
Some games have "item shuffling" to depress day one use anxieties, but that wouldn't have worked in this game considering how the good guys were delineated into their roles. In a game like this, I would have probably waited for Day Two or Day Three but with death so unpredictable I might have used it on Day One if I had a strong enough hunch.
It's certainly going to make people think twice when a mechanic like this comes up again. If I were an innocent I would prefer to deliberate over lists until I found the traitor engineer. We were basically handing out 5-man networks to the other engineers and any lists not authorized by the traitor engineer could be seen as having 2-3+ traitors on it.
I think a lesson here is, don't let any small group of people control the conversation of the day or vote targets, chances are it's a bad guy like Drez who could pretty much clusterfuck the day's arguments and help control the vote. Plus, see if there's anything one can do to help edge out some favor for the good guys. Remember, you don't have to contribute ideas that only increase the good guy win chance, you can also look for ideas that decrease the bad guy chance of controlling the odds. Try to prevent them from performing certain tricks by noting it in the thread, etc.
Yeah, listening to Drez in any Phalla is clearly a mistake. :winky:
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Look, we all have ideas that don't pan out. Sorry, but even in retrospect, killing you was the best strategic move I had, and if I hadn't and gone with my first instincts I would have abandoned Zoolander altogether when you and Quetzi came up innocent. But...come back tomorrow (or the next day if Mr. Lanfear wants to drag the game out) and say that listening to me is "always" a mistake.
I didn't want you to die but considering the info I had I thought it very likely that you were a Black Ajah. People are allowed to be wrong now and then, no?
I'll tell you what, if I ever get a Seer role I'll seer you, since you complained about not getting seered. If you're a bad guy when I do that, though, you only have yourself to blame for dying.
edit: Plus we kept you alive till the end in this one. Granted that was because we were apparently planning on selling you into slavery, but still. At least you were alive!
I'm tempted to lime Ardor's entire post.
Also, bandwagoning. More independent-minded voting would benefit the village, because it gives them much more information through voting patterns. Who's trying to manipulate the vote? Who's jumping on mindless bandwagons? In the earlier Phallas, jumping on succesful bandwagons was a trademark bad guy move, because that way they could participate in the vote without leaving a trail. IIRC Ardor and Lady Eri found the bad guys with insane efficiency in the Phalliad, based mostly on voting records. Now everyone jumps on one bandwagon, which seriously deprives the village of information.
Edit: someone should write a Basic Phalla Strategy Guide and have it stickied.
2nd, 5 days is not a lot of data to work with. Especially considering all the shenanigans.
Vigilante kills are a mixed blessing. While if they're innocent controlled they're generally good for the village they come at a cost of extra days for voting. With so much random death we never really had a chance of building up enough data to work with.
With the inevitably 1st day waste and then add in the last days obvious PK bandwagon (with the pretty blatent Drez interference) and we have 3 days of actual discussion to find 8 traitors.
Borderlands 2 PA Xbox Metatag - Bazillion Guns
The three RNG kills sucked, we weren't expecting that (although after playing SS13 for about 5 minutes last night, I should have). If it weren't for that we would have only lost life3. I loved in the narration how Niceguy tackled me and buzz. :lol:
That's why Niceguy didn't finish last.
Plus, I want Tuxedo Mask for myself. He's so dreamy. I hate my Rainy Day Man.
I swear, people will let Drez get away with murder.
Christ, if he can get away with some of the puns earlier in this threat i'm fairly sure he's actually impossible to kill.
All I got for it was a nosebleed.
:winky:
I suspected you, but then, you already knew that.
<3
Oh yeah, sorry about the Day One bandwagon, Defunker. You were a cover for my "overreactive dick" persona. I wanted to start in on that on Day One because it's pretty easy to just pass that off as Day One suspicions which are usually pretty empty anyway.
It's like Nash game theory, except replace the hot chicks with futt bucking. :winky:
Persona?
Man, I totally would have joined the non-Cheez traitors. If only you guys weren't bugger-happy pansies.
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B:L: What is "Nash game theory"?
Yeah, I'm generally a nice guy on some days when the starts are aligned perfectly.
Yeah <3.