At the same time, I kind of doubt this generational analysis
I doubt all generational analysis. As soon as somebody starts a thought with "The problem with kids today..." all I hear is "blah blah blah sample bias blah blah affirmation bias blah blah blah get off mah lawn."
Generational analysis should be taken with a grain of salt--I don't know if how I was writing conveyed that belief.
While generational analysis is no excuse for anything from any individual, group, or (especially) generation, I find it hard to believe that there's no common characteristics to the greatest generation, to baby boomers, or to gen X'rs. The time a person grows up has a big effect on his perceptions and personality, and is a part of a person's identity, just the way a geographical background and religious background are
It's often misused, though. But if used correctly, it can be useful. For example: if a kid wakes up and realizes "Hey! Most of us have somehow gotten this common belief, and it's not true and I don't have to let it influence me," then it's been useful.
Are we actually going to argue that our parents drugged up, promiscuous, lazy generation was substantially different at our age?
What statistics I've seen have reported that the boomers were actually less drugged up and less sexually active than our generation. Blame media sensationalism for the attention given to boomers' use of sex and drugs and to the changing social mores that accepted those things. I doubt that the boomers were all that much more likely to use drugs or have premarital sex than their parents' generation, but it's difficult to find statistics for either before the boomers' generation.
It only seemed to affect a certain subset of academia when I went. Folks in majors that were actually demanding and focused - the hard sciences, notably - were pretty driven. It was the people who enroll undeclared and wind up in generic majors like "poli-sci" and "rhet-con" that tended apathetic. I think if you go into college with a firm idea of where you're going and a game plan on how to get there, you're more likely to give a shit then if you just go to college because it's what you're supposed to do.
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I feel like I should defend polisci, but I really can't argue with the observation that most of the other people I'm studying with did not enroll in this to serve their country.
I feel like I should defend polisci, but I really can't argue with the observation that most of the other people I'm studying with did not enroll in this to serve their country.
Yeah, I think the field has merit. It's just sort of saddled with being one of the few, popular lazy-person choices. Probably because math-based fields are scary and it sounds vaguely impressive, without appearing as useless as something like English or Philosophy.
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High School is so worthless College has taken it's place
Well, to be fair, being a machine press operator and being a financial services worker require different education levels.
Course the catch is college educated level jobs make you works as a quasi-slave for a good decade before you get to make a living.
God I wish I knew someone in the film unions....
That's just your personal bitterness talking.
Yeah, I've found it pretty easy to jump around from industry to industry without having to work as a "quasi-slave". I think it's more a matter of where you decide to work and how you decide to further your career.
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deowolfis allowed to do that.Traffic.Registered Userregular
At my university, Ohio University, most of the classmates I've had haven't a clue about what they want to do and thusly not any idea about what they want to major in.
Greets from a Bobcat alum. Lemme tell you, at this point, all anyone there is looking forward too is the next Palmerfest (that still happens right? Christ I feel old. Is Tony's still open? The Junction?). It was the same when I was there. One of my best friends from college was the Guy on the Couch, Brother Bluto type who actually changed his name just as many times as his major (three- he found too many people were coming up to him on Court st that saw him at parties and he had no idea who they were).
My point, I think, was that college is now this place you go to get an idea, rather than to hone one you already have. But mostly I wanna know about Tony's.
I am going into college this year and don't really know what I want to do afterwards. In my case it isn't due to apathy though, it is due to the fact that there are so many opportunitys out there. I can do basically whatever I want, I just have to figure out what that is.
Personally, graduating college scares the hell out of me. Doing the same job for 40 years is a daunting prospect, so I think it's really important to figure out exactly what you want to be doing for all that time, and college is the best time to do that. Thankfully I still have 2 years + grad school before I worry about the real world. Working life just seems so monotonous.
You know, the chance of anyone doing the exact same job for 40 years in this day and age is pretty much zero right? Even if its the same field, there are always different opportunities and jobs available that may be related to your field.
EDIT:
A question for the thread: Do you think colleges and universities should offer career planning courses as part of the curriculum?
I was born in 1984, so I suppose I'm on the front edge of the "Echo Boomers". In any case, I think the apathy stems from tremendous amount of knowledge, information, and (like someone said earlier) bullshit that everyone my age has been exposed to thanks to the internet and the insane levels of marketing that began in the 1980s.
Nothing is a revelation anymore. 9-11 was the last shock anyone in my generation got, and it will probably be the last one we get. Did it last long? Not really, especially compared to how long the shock of Pearl Harbor lasted.
The fact of the matter is that we are generally well-educated, and know what's going on. We just know SO MUCH that we realize how retarded the entire way the world works really is. So apathy sets in. We kind of take the perspective of "Let all of those idiots play their stupid games and get all bent out of shape. I'm just gonna enjoy my life." Most young people are still liberal, but they're a different kind of liberal. It's not a huge protest and march type of civil disobedience like the movements in the 60s. We just kind of let people spout their bullshit and take solace in the fact that we don't have to get so angry about stupid shit. We've got a little bit of that 80s excess in us (just look at the hip-hop culture), but there's a big difference. We don't really CARE about it. Sure, we want Lamborghinis and mansions, but... we don't really care if we ever get them or not. Because we know in the end it's all bullshit anyway.
I was born in 1984, so I suppose I'm on the front edge of the "Echo Boomers". In any case, I think the apathy stems from tremendous amount of knowledge, information, and (like someone said earlier) bullshit that everyone my age has been exposed to thanks to the internet and the insane levels of marketing that began in the 1980s.
Nothing is a revelation anymore. 9-11 was the last shock anyone in my generation got, and it will probably be the last one we get. Did it last long? Not really, especially compared to how long the shock of Pearl Harbor lasted.
The fact of the matter is that we are generally well-educated, and know what's going on. We just know SO MUCH that we realize how retarded the entire way the world works really is. So apathy sets in. We kind of take the perspective of "Let all of those idiots play their stupid games and get all bent out of shape. I'm just gonna enjoy my life." Most young people are still liberal, but they're a different kind of liberal. It's not a huge protest and march type of civil disobedience like the movements in the 60s. We just kind of let people spout their bullshit and take solace in the fact that we don't have to get so angry about stupid shit. We've got a little bit of that 80s excess in us (just look at the hip-hop culture), but there's a big difference. We don't really CARE about it. Sure, we want Lamborghinis and mansions, but... we don't really care if we ever get them or not. Because we know in the end it's all bullshit anyway.
Er, I think you're mostly describing apathy, indifference and selfishness. The many, many americans (less than a third get college degrees) who don't have the opportunities of most posters on the board are sort of screwed. I'm only really realizing this as I set foot off campus into the real world, though, after living in enclaves of affluence most of my life. I think the biggest thing that's different is that society is becoming increasingly more segregated along lines of class instead of lines of race - it promotes this attitude you're describing and seems like a quite reasonable one because we don't really have to see the suffering most people go through.
Also, a lot of people don't see the point in marching, etc. I can sympathize with that too - "direct action" has lots of shortcomings. Sometimes mass mobilization can be a powerful political tool and I hope our generation rediscovers that along with the rest of our media savviness.
To be fair there is a whole lot of "if you don't take post secondary education you'll end up living in a van down by the river" thrown at kids.
I know here in BC the trades are doing a lot of promotion of their industry, because they're really, really, short of people and there's a huge building boom.
I've been teaching college classes for five years and I've noticed its getting harder and harder to get any information across to the majority of the freshmen I've been trying to teach. I'm not terribly sure why this is. I just know I'm dreading the start of the Fall term.
I was born in 1984, so I suppose I'm on the front edge of the "Echo Boomers". In any case, I think the apathy stems from tremendous amount of knowledge, information, and (like someone said earlier) bullshit that everyone my age has been exposed to thanks to the internet and the insane levels of marketing that began in the 1980s.
Nothing is a revelation anymore. 9-11 was the last shock anyone in my generation got, and it will probably be the last one we get. Did it last long? Not really, especially compared to how long the shock of Pearl Harbor lasted.
The fact of the matter is that we are generally well-educated, and know what's going on. We just know SO MUCH that we realize how retarded the entire way the world works really is. So apathy sets in. We kind of take the perspective of "Let all of those idiots play their stupid games and get all bent out of shape. I'm just gonna enjoy my life." Most young people are still liberal, but they're a different kind of liberal. It's not a huge protest and march type of civil disobedience like the movements in the 60s. We just kind of let people spout their bullshit and take solace in the fact that we don't have to get so angry about stupid shit. We've got a little bit of that 80s excess in us (just look at the hip-hop culture), but there's a big difference. We don't really CARE about it. Sure, we want Lamborghinis and mansions, but... we don't really care if we ever get them or not. Because we know in the end it's all bullshit anyway.
Er, I think you're mostly describing apathy, indifference and selfishness. The many, many americans (less than a third get college degrees) who don't have the opportunities of most posters on the board are sort of screwed. I'm only really realizing this as I set foot off campus into the real world, though, after living in enclaves of affluence most of my life. I think the biggest thing that's different is that society is becoming increasingly more segregated along lines of class instead of lines of race - it promotes this attitude you're describing and seems like a quite reasonable one because we don't really have to see the suffering most people go through.
Also, a lot of people don't see the point in marching, etc. I can sympathize with that too - "direct action" has lots of shortcomings. Sometimes mass mobilization can be a powerful political tool and I hope our generation rediscovers that along with the rest of our media savviness.
Selfishness is a good way to describe it, I suppose. Most of us living in suburban America just sort of look at the inner-city and violent parts of the third world and just say "Why the hell do people act like that? Retarded.", instead of trying to figure out a way to get them to STOP acting like that. Our generation does have a desire to change things... but we're taking our sweet time. I suppose when we're in positions of power and have influence, good things will happen. I hope so, anyway.
I've been teaching college classes for five years and I've noticed its getting harder and harder to get any information across to the majority of the freshmen I've been trying to teach. I'm not terribly sure why this is. I just know I'm dreading the start of the Fall term.
I suppose apathy goes through phases. People were aware in the 40s, apathetic in the 50s, aware in the 60s, apathetic in the 70s, aware (somewhat) in the 80s, apathetic in the 90s, and aware for the first few years of this decade after 9-11, and are now drifting back into apathy.
I suppose apathy goes through phases. People were aware in the 40s, apathetic in the 50s, aware in the 60s, apathetic in the 70s, aware (somewhat) in the 80s, apathetic in the 90s, and aware for the first few years of this decade after 9-11, and are now drifting back into apathy.
No, there've pretty much been apathetic and "aware" young'uns in every decade.
There are two common stereotypes of 60s youth, for example. There is the noble young activist, peace-protesting all over the damned place; there is also the lazy, promiscuous stoner, getting high all over the damned place. Which one is accurate? Both. There were a bunch of lazy stoners, and there were a bunch of activists. Right now, there are a lot of lazy stoners, and there are a lot of activists. In any time period, there are a bunch of lazy fuckers and a lot of activists.
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I suppose apathy goes through phases. People were aware in the 40s, apathetic in the 50s, aware in the 60s, apathetic in the 70s, aware (somewhat) in the 80s, apathetic in the 90s, and aware for the first few years of this decade after 9-11, and are now drifting back into apathy.
No, there've pretty much been apathetic and "aware" young'uns in every decade.
There are two common stereotypes of 60s youth, for example. There is the noble young activist, peace-protesting all over the damned place; there is also the lazy, promiscuous stoner, getting high all over the damned place. Which one is accurate? Both. There were a bunch of lazy stoners, and there were a bunch of activists. Right now, there are a lot of lazy stoners, and there are a lot of activists. In any time period, there are a bunch of lazy fuckers and a lot of activists.
As an extremely late Gen X'er (born at what some argue is the cutoff date between X and Y -- 1976) I'd like to jump into the discussion with an article regarding Gen X I snatched from wikipedia. I feel that I got to see the transition from X to Y and have abit of both generations in me:
Way back in 1990, Time magazine published a feature about Generation X (then called, simply, "twentysomethings") with the strap line "laid back, late blooming or just lost?" It made the following claim, " Down deep, what frustrates today's young people is their failure to create an original youth culture." Eh?
What the writers, who were undoubtedly wearing their rose-tinted, Baby Boomer, "remember Woodstock" goggles, failed to grasp was that " youth culture" is a relatively recent invention with a relatively limited shelf life. But Gen X knew it (after all, we'd tried wearing a pair of jeans in every conceivable manner possible) and came up with an ingenious, if not altogether dignified, solution.
We became magpies, cherry-picking the best of both previous cultural forms and forms from other (ie, non-western) parts of the world. We revelled in eclecticism, toyed with authenticity and framed it all in irony. Just look at Tarantino: there was nothing new about Tarantino's films and yet cinema had never seen anything like them. Just listen to hip hop: a thoroughly modern collage of older musical forms.
In fact, hip hop - for all dandy Dave's recently reported doubts - is a prime example of the generation at its best; less a musical revolution than one of technology. Maybe we didn't create much in the way of new cultural content, but maybe we went one better. After all, we created a whole new cultural space for the production, distribution and consumption of that content: it's called the internet.
Now, I'm not suggesting we invented the internet. We didn't. Nor are we its natural heirs, which is a benefit bestowed on our successors. We were, however, the brave foot soldiers in the forgotten years before victory was inevitable. Look at it this way: it wasn't the Baby Boomers nor those young whippersnappers from Generation Y who tried to download movie clips over a 9600bps connection; it was us. And it took hours and the connection kept dropping and the clip was pixellated to incoherence, but we kept the faith. The internet wasn't of our making but it made us. Slackers in McJobs became self-employed entrepreneurs slaving 80-hour weeks for the noble goal that one day everyone might have access to affordable pornography. Faced with new and difficult career circumstances but armed with new and difficult tools, we adapted and became my second characteristic, "Enterprising".
Describing the moral make-up of the Baby Boomer generation, Jonathan Haidt, a psychologist at the University of Virginia has written: "... if there is a sensitive period for acquiring a moral and political orientation, it is the late teens and early 20s, and most of those whose sensitive periods included the Vietnam war and the struggles for civil rights seem to have been permanently marked by those times." Little wonder the Boomers are so morally cut and dried.
But what of Generation X? What is our equivalent? If there is one, I'd argue it was the end of the Cold War and the collapse of the Eastern Bloc. However, I'd also argue it affected our generation in a subtle way. For (omega) the Boomers, the end of the Cold War was a victory for what they believed in. For us, however, still in that "sensitive period", it was merely a victory for what we knew. This is one root cause of my third Gen-X characteristic; we are what I call "Instinctive Relativists".
We didn't believe in global communism, but that doesn't make us advocates of global capitalism. We may not believe in God or institutions but that's missing the point; because we don't believe in the absence of God or institutions either. We don't even believe in immutable knowledge. We prefer Wikipedia - a limitless, editable source that's as fallible as its contributors.
Next to our Instinctive Relativism stands our fourth connected characteristic. We are "Natural Pluralists". It was mostly the Boomers who fought for civil rights and against apartheid, the Boomers who enjoyed the Summer of Love and won the feminist argument (if not the practice), the Boomers who first marched for gay pride. Good for them. All their achievements, however, didn't stop them being racist, sexist and homophobic, and so they had to come up with a series of laws (both actual and implicit) to proscribe their worst tendencies. Indeed, they're still at it; repeatedly tying themselves in legal and moral knots in a desperate attempt to "do the right thing". And Generation X looks on, somewhat bemused. You see, thanks to the Boomers efforts we are typically Natural Pluralists who accept diversity. Of course, this doesn't make us less racist, sexist or homophobic either, but it does mean that such impulses are transmitted across motherboards hardwired to value difference. This frequently leads to some confusion and even the occasional short circuit. But, in confusing times, it's OK to be confused.
I would argue that it is our Instinctive Relativism and Natural Pluralism that spawn the accusations of amorality. But it's simply not true that we don't believe in right and wrong; rather that we're often not sure what they are. We are governed by uncertainty and, admittedly, this is a dangerous position. But, in the contemporary world, it's still better than many. As a general principle, it must be worse to think you're right and be wrong (ask Tony "Boomer" Blair) than to admit that you're just not sure...
As Generation X reaches middle age and inevitably takes charge, it's possible to envisage dithering direction guided only by the side its bread (wholemeal, stone ground, from the deli) is buttered (spreadable, Danish, unsalted)...I would finally suggest that the way this particular cookie will crumble comes down less to the characteristics of the generation than the generation's recognition of the two prime characteristics of its era: unprecedented prosperity and (at least local) peace."
One of the biggest differences I personally notice between Gen X and Gen Y, is that early Generation X'ers tend to be obsessive about making tons of money and tend to be self absorbed in the pursuit of individual goals.
It's interesting to look at the corporate world ... Gen X'ers tend to be striving for management positions for the sake of salary, position, prestige, and to get the power to make those changes they hated that the boomers refused to do. Gen Y has just barely entered the corporate world but from what I've seen they tend to be more team oriented in the pursuit of individual goals.
Gen Y while still pursing individual goals, the way they go after those individual goals is totally different from Generation X. Generation X says "How am I going to make a difference?" Generation Y says "How are we going to make a difference?"
Completely irrelevant to my last paragraph I'd just like to say that the part in the article above talking about how Gen X slaved over shitty connections to download porn, music, etc is SO true.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited July 2007
in the commentary for Dazed and Confused (which I think is a fantastic movie) Richard Linklater says taht the reason he thinks the movie remains popular is that the teenage years have been the same for every generation, especially post world war 2. they face the same obstacles and challenges, and all that changes (and only somewhat) is the pop culture landscape.
just thought this point was one that a lot of people here seem to hold to, and I have difficulty arguing with it.
Come on now, this thread is chock full of anecdotal generalizations that do nothing but make one feel somehow knowledgable. What kind of apathy are we really talking here?
Political apathy? Not caring about voting or what happens with the government?
Apathy regarding the future? Not caring about making plans for tomorrow, in the form of careers and goals?
Apathy towards each other? Not caring about the complexities in the people around us?
It seems to me that there are many kinds of apathy, and they don't all spring from the same source. I have a feeling each person who is talking about apathy in this thread is thinking of something different, and I haven't even begun to catalogue the different meanings in this post.
In some ways, apathy could be considered positive -- the focused deadening of desire found in buddhism, for example. How is apathy inherently negative? This is another question that needs to be answered. Some people inherently have more passion to engage in the world, more amibition or more desire, while others seek to distance themselves from it. I find it not so easy to damn one group of people or the other.
I'm hugely apathetic, although it may just be me (24, btw). There's a saying, "Do you live to work, or work to live?" There's an image, at least of Boomers and pre-Boomers living to work. They defined themselves by their career and did the same work at the same company for their entire lives.
Nowadays nobody expects anything but crap from their company. If you don't get outsourced or laid off within a few years, then you'll be underappreciated and left with switching companies or careers as the only real way to get a decent raise or promotion. My dad's a Boomer and I know it's been true for him, people didn't offer him shit til it turned out he was about to leave for another job that paid a ton more.
For all the money we pay in Social Security taxes, we'll never see a dime of it back. Politicians say "It'll last til 2040, what's the big worry?" The worry is I won't be able to retire til 2050, you fucker. If Peak Oil happens, it'll probably happen in my lifetime. Global Warming could potentially do serious damage, and somehow something that ought to be a scientific concern has been turned into a liberal vs. conservative political issue (I still don't have any idea how that happened). And the government is still run by guys old enough to be my dead grandfathers, who have never enjoyed the same hobbies we enjoy or grown up in a culture as diverse as ours. And while it may not be a generational thing, it's sickingly obvious how easily they can be bought by lobbying groups, and the main factor in a politician's chances to get elected is how much money they have.
I don't have any faith in my career or my government, so I end up not putting my time or energy into them. My life's defined more by the things I do outside of work, and that's what I care about.
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
I suppose apathy goes through phases. People were aware in the 40s, apathetic in the 50s, aware in the 60s, apathetic in the 70s, aware (somewhat) in the 80s, apathetic in the 90s, and aware for the first few years of this decade after 9-11, and are now drifting back into apathy.
No, there've pretty much been apathetic and "aware" young'uns in every decade.
There are two common stereotypes of 60s youth, for example. There is the noble young activist, peace-protesting all over the damned place; there is also the lazy, promiscuous stoner, getting high all over the damned place. Which one is accurate? Both. There were a bunch of lazy stoners, and there were a bunch of activists. Right now, there are a lot of lazy stoners, and there are a lot of activists. In any time period, there are a bunch of lazy fuckers and a lot of activists.
Most of our notions of the 60s come from the 70s. The majority of the 60s were pretty square, with the dominant counterculture being the beatniks. The hippie fringe really started to emerge only in the end of the decade and stuck around for the 70s.
I was too lazy to read this thread, which is bad, but I'm just saying... nowadays everyone seems to be expected to go to college, and a lot of people just go because it's the thing that people do after HS. Before people went because they had a reason. Or knew what they wanted to do. Or something. I had a few friends who took a year off before college, and I think they're a lot better off for it.. gives you some time to think, some reasons to actually go to school and what you want to do and some more maturity. Ya know.
I was too lazy to read this thread, which is bad, but I'm just saying... nowadays everyone seems to be expected to go to college, and a lot of people just go because it's the thing that people do after HS. Before people went because they had a reason. Or knew what they wanted to do. Or something. I had a few friends who took a year off before college, and I think they're a lot better off for it.. gives you some time to think, some reasons to actually go to school and what you want to do and some more maturity. Ya know.
I'm very much a proponent of the "go to CC first" philosophy. It gives you two years to kinda figure stuff out, it's much cheaper, you can get a lot of the manditory shit you'll need regardless of major, and I think it eases the transition into being a responsible adult a little better.
I'll certainly be suggesting to my daughters they do this, unless there's a big change in education by 2022, which there may just be.
I think a major part of the apathy of my generation is the continuing growth of disillusionment. The strongest motivators to action are usually powerful ties to organizations and ideologies - religions, countries, movements, etc. But this generation seems to create or value these ties much less than former ones. Patriotism and religious fervor, or ideological fervor at all, seem much less widespread. We don't place as much value in institutions, and as such we are far less united by them.
This kinda worries me, because although I protest against nationalism and religion as much as the next liberal atheist, they exist for a reason - they are very powerful motivators for people. Finding a more personal motivation is healthier and more fulfilling in my opinion, but it's also much more difficult and I'm not sure that everyone can do it. I'm not even sure if I can do it.
There's actually a fair amount of activism around trying to fix up the downtown and make it not hell.
It's just that the developers see easy money in letting downtown go to fuck.
Money is what drives most people.
Even the current "green" movement is mostly working because of greed.
My dad's retirement plan is "Son, please light all of us on fire when I turn 65. Baby boomers are such assholes."
Seriously though, we're outnumbered right now and most of our political actions, at least on the surface, seem to have little to no effect or are very much mitigated by older voters. Also, I'm a Rhode Islander, so my vote is literally not counted. We haven't had a political ad played in our state since 1871. And that was a waste, because no one had televisions.
I think a major part of the apathy of my generation is the continuing growth of disillusionment. The strongest motivators to action are usually powerful ties to organizations and ideologies - religions, countries, movements, etc. But this generation seems to create or value these ties much less than former ones. Patriotism and religious fervor, or ideological fervor at all, seem much less widespread. We don't place as much value in institutions, and as such we are far less united by them.
This kinda worries me, because although I protest against nationalism and religion as much as the next liberal atheist, they exist for a reason - they are very powerful motivators for people. Finding a more personal motivation is healthier and more fulfilling in my opinion, but it's also much more difficult and I'm not sure that everyone can do it. I'm not even sure if I can do it.
That was pretty much my impression of my generation (mid-to-tail-X) based upon the people I knew. But apparently it's a self-selected group not indicitive of general demographics, since IIRC things like church attendance and conservativism are on the upswing among young people.
I agree, there's far too much apathy about the 80's. Increasingly I see people wandering around with mullets, wearing neon palettes and listening to interminable retro-disco rhythmns, ambling blindly into style hell without any apparent concept of what they could unleash!
I don't have any faith in my career or my government, so I end up not putting my time or energy into them. My life's defined more by the things I do outside of work, and that's what I care about.
And that's what really really separates us from boomers. When they grew up, government and career was much more at the focal point of their lives (and their parents' lives) and the government highly affected stuff they cared about.
We've never witnessed the government do something that mattered to us. Not once. No lowering the voting age to 18...nothing like that. And with economics and business changing to much more rapidity and the most successful businesses being comprised of CEOs who have headed three companies and the majority of those working work for $7.00 an hour to greet people at the door, there's no reason to take pride there either. Religion used to be simpler, as well. Now that there are Protestant and Catholic scandals and the media has highlighted some of the crazy stuff some religious people do or say, it too has weakened its hold on us.
The real problem of our generation is we have nothing to be united about. If we get our own Pearl Harbor (9/11 was more like a JFK), the shit will hit the fan, not because it will necessarily be worse than Pearl Harbor or whatever, but because we've been looking for something to care (or get mad, which is highly related) about for a long time.
Don't blame us for being the most depressed generation. Starting in the early 70s, the later you are born the more complicated your world, the more blurred the morals, the more opportunities and ways to screw up your life, and the more confusing proper ethics are.
Our insistence that the world is crazy and that there is little to agree on is not without merit.
I have this sinking feeling that when I hit 50, I'm going to be surrounded by a bunch of preening Gen-Xers talking about how their generation is so wonderful and special, unlike the current crop of Gen-ZZ-Plural-Alpha-ers, or whatever we're up to, who are a bunch of lazy, shiftless fuck-offs.
ElJeffe on
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Course the catch is college educated level jobs make you works as a quasi-slave for a good decade before you get to make a living.
God I wish I knew someone in the film unions....
There aren't enough limes on this earth...
That's just your personal bitterness talking.
While generational analysis is no excuse for anything from any individual, group, or (especially) generation, I find it hard to believe that there's no common characteristics to the greatest generation, to baby boomers, or to gen X'rs. The time a person grows up has a big effect on his perceptions and personality, and is a part of a person's identity, just the way a geographical background and religious background are
It's often misused, though. But if used correctly, it can be useful. For example: if a kid wakes up and realizes "Hey! Most of us have somehow gotten this common belief, and it's not true and I don't have to let it influence me," then it's been useful.
Yeah, I think the field has merit. It's just sort of saddled with being one of the few, popular lazy-person choices. Probably because math-based fields are scary and it sounds vaguely impressive, without appearing as useless as something like English or Philosophy.
Yeah, I've found it pretty easy to jump around from industry to industry without having to work as a "quasi-slave". I think it's more a matter of where you decide to work and how you decide to further your career.
Greets from a Bobcat alum. Lemme tell you, at this point, all anyone there is looking forward too is the next Palmerfest (that still happens right? Christ I feel old. Is Tony's still open? The Junction?). It was the same when I was there. One of my best friends from college was the Guy on the Couch, Brother Bluto type who actually changed his name just as many times as his major (three- he found too many people were coming up to him on Court st that saw him at parties and he had no idea who they were).
My point, I think, was that college is now this place you go to get an idea, rather than to hone one you already have. But mostly I wanna know about Tony's.
You know, the chance of anyone doing the exact same job for 40 years in this day and age is pretty much zero right? Even if its the same field, there are always different opportunities and jobs available that may be related to your field.
EDIT:
A question for the thread: Do you think colleges and universities should offer career planning courses as part of the curriculum?
Nothing is a revelation anymore. 9-11 was the last shock anyone in my generation got, and it will probably be the last one we get. Did it last long? Not really, especially compared to how long the shock of Pearl Harbor lasted.
The fact of the matter is that we are generally well-educated, and know what's going on. We just know SO MUCH that we realize how retarded the entire way the world works really is. So apathy sets in. We kind of take the perspective of "Let all of those idiots play their stupid games and get all bent out of shape. I'm just gonna enjoy my life." Most young people are still liberal, but they're a different kind of liberal. It's not a huge protest and march type of civil disobedience like the movements in the 60s. We just kind of let people spout their bullshit and take solace in the fact that we don't have to get so angry about stupid shit. We've got a little bit of that 80s excess in us (just look at the hip-hop culture), but there's a big difference. We don't really CARE about it. Sure, we want Lamborghinis and mansions, but... we don't really care if we ever get them or not. Because we know in the end it's all bullshit anyway.
XBL: QuazarX
They're stupidly wrong.
And, unfortunately, that often leads to the people in college being stupid, and disrupting the whole situation.
As a society, we need to balance the prestige given to car mechanics and accountants a bit more.
I wouldn't have an issue with people going to college as a default if they actually went for the -education-, but they so rarely do.
Fucking pottery class takers.
Take classes that are going to make you a better or more valuable person, you fucks.
Unless you want to actually make pots later in life, spend your goddamn credits better.
Er, I think you're mostly describing apathy, indifference and selfishness. The many, many americans (less than a third get college degrees) who don't have the opportunities of most posters on the board are sort of screwed. I'm only really realizing this as I set foot off campus into the real world, though, after living in enclaves of affluence most of my life. I think the biggest thing that's different is that society is becoming increasingly more segregated along lines of class instead of lines of race - it promotes this attitude you're describing and seems like a quite reasonable one because we don't really have to see the suffering most people go through.
Also, a lot of people don't see the point in marching, etc. I can sympathize with that too - "direct action" has lots of shortcomings. Sometimes mass mobilization can be a powerful political tool and I hope our generation rediscovers that along with the rest of our media savviness.
I know here in BC the trades are doing a lot of promotion of their industry, because they're really, really, short of people and there's a huge building boom.
I mean, we're all adults now, but our parents and grandparents still own the world.
XBL: QuazarX
I suppose apathy goes through phases. People were aware in the 40s, apathetic in the 50s, aware in the 60s, apathetic in the 70s, aware (somewhat) in the 80s, apathetic in the 90s, and aware for the first few years of this decade after 9-11, and are now drifting back into apathy.
XBL: QuazarX
It's just that the developers see easy money in letting downtown go to fuck.
Money is what drives most people.
Even the current "green" movement is mostly working because of greed.
No, there've pretty much been apathetic and "aware" young'uns in every decade.
There are two common stereotypes of 60s youth, for example. There is the noble young activist, peace-protesting all over the damned place; there is also the lazy, promiscuous stoner, getting high all over the damned place. Which one is accurate? Both. There were a bunch of lazy stoners, and there were a bunch of activists. Right now, there are a lot of lazy stoners, and there are a lot of activists. In any time period, there are a bunch of lazy fuckers and a lot of activists.
I have nothing else to say.
XBL: QuazarX
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article2276189.ece
One of the biggest differences I personally notice between Gen X and Gen Y, is that early Generation X'ers tend to be obsessive about making tons of money and tend to be self absorbed in the pursuit of individual goals.
It's interesting to look at the corporate world ... Gen X'ers tend to be striving for management positions for the sake of salary, position, prestige, and to get the power to make those changes they hated that the boomers refused to do. Gen Y has just barely entered the corporate world but from what I've seen they tend to be more team oriented in the pursuit of individual goals.
Gen Y while still pursing individual goals, the way they go after those individual goals is totally different from Generation X. Generation X says "How am I going to make a difference?" Generation Y says "How are we going to make a difference?"
Completely irrelevant to my last paragraph I'd just like to say that the part in the article above talking about how Gen X slaved over shitty connections to download porn, music, etc is SO true.
just thought this point was one that a lot of people here seem to hold to, and I have difficulty arguing with it.
Political apathy? Not caring about voting or what happens with the government?
Apathy regarding the future? Not caring about making plans for tomorrow, in the form of careers and goals?
Apathy towards each other? Not caring about the complexities in the people around us?
It seems to me that there are many kinds of apathy, and they don't all spring from the same source. I have a feeling each person who is talking about apathy in this thread is thinking of something different, and I haven't even begun to catalogue the different meanings in this post.
In some ways, apathy could be considered positive -- the focused deadening of desire found in buddhism, for example. How is apathy inherently negative? This is another question that needs to be answered. Some people inherently have more passion to engage in the world, more amibition or more desire, while others seek to distance themselves from it. I find it not so easy to damn one group of people or the other.
Nowadays nobody expects anything but crap from their company. If you don't get outsourced or laid off within a few years, then you'll be underappreciated and left with switching companies or careers as the only real way to get a decent raise or promotion. My dad's a Boomer and I know it's been true for him, people didn't offer him shit til it turned out he was about to leave for another job that paid a ton more.
For all the money we pay in Social Security taxes, we'll never see a dime of it back. Politicians say "It'll last til 2040, what's the big worry?" The worry is I won't be able to retire til 2050, you fucker. If Peak Oil happens, it'll probably happen in my lifetime. Global Warming could potentially do serious damage, and somehow something that ought to be a scientific concern has been turned into a liberal vs. conservative political issue (I still don't have any idea how that happened). And the government is still run by guys old enough to be my dead grandfathers, who have never enjoyed the same hobbies we enjoy or grown up in a culture as diverse as ours. And while it may not be a generational thing, it's sickingly obvious how easily they can be bought by lobbying groups, and the main factor in a politician's chances to get elected is how much money they have.
I don't have any faith in my career or my government, so I end up not putting my time or energy into them. My life's defined more by the things I do outside of work, and that's what I care about.
Most of our notions of the 60s come from the 70s. The majority of the 60s were pretty square, with the dominant counterculture being the beatniks. The hippie fringe really started to emerge only in the end of the decade and stuck around for the 70s.
I'm very much a proponent of the "go to CC first" philosophy. It gives you two years to kinda figure stuff out, it's much cheaper, you can get a lot of the manditory shit you'll need regardless of major, and I think it eases the transition into being a responsible adult a little better.
I'll certainly be suggesting to my daughters they do this, unless there's a big change in education by 2022, which there may just be.
This kinda worries me, because although I protest against nationalism and religion as much as the next liberal atheist, they exist for a reason - they are very powerful motivators for people. Finding a more personal motivation is healthier and more fulfilling in my opinion, but it's also much more difficult and I'm not sure that everyone can do it. I'm not even sure if I can do it.
I wouldn't be so sure about that.
Seriously though, we're outnumbered right now and most of our political actions, at least on the surface, seem to have little to no effect or are very much mitigated by older voters. Also, I'm a Rhode Islander, so my vote is literally not counted. We haven't had a political ad played in our state since 1871. And that was a waste, because no one had televisions.
That was pretty much my impression of my generation (mid-to-tail-X) based upon the people I knew. But apparently it's a self-selected group not indicitive of general demographics, since IIRC things like church attendance and conservativism are on the upswing among young people.
The 80's is still dangerous! Be vigilant!
And that's what really really separates us from boomers. When they grew up, government and career was much more at the focal point of their lives (and their parents' lives) and the government highly affected stuff they cared about.
We've never witnessed the government do something that mattered to us. Not once. No lowering the voting age to 18...nothing like that. And with economics and business changing to much more rapidity and the most successful businesses being comprised of CEOs who have headed three companies and the majority of those working work for $7.00 an hour to greet people at the door, there's no reason to take pride there either. Religion used to be simpler, as well. Now that there are Protestant and Catholic scandals and the media has highlighted some of the crazy stuff some religious people do or say, it too has weakened its hold on us.
The real problem of our generation is we have nothing to be united about. If we get our own Pearl Harbor (9/11 was more like a JFK), the shit will hit the fan, not because it will necessarily be worse than Pearl Harbor or whatever, but because we've been looking for something to care (or get mad, which is highly related) about for a long time.
Don't blame us for being the most depressed generation. Starting in the early 70s, the later you are born the more complicated your world, the more blurred the morals, the more opportunities and ways to screw up your life, and the more confusing proper ethics are.
Our insistence that the world is crazy and that there is little to agree on is not without merit.
I was wondering when someone was going to tell this joke.