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Cooperative Space Sim?

TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosiRegistered User regular
edited August 2007 in Games and Technology
When I was a tyke, I loved to play space sims, like Wing Commander, Tie-Fighter, X-Wing, and Privateer. I would often play at a friend's house, or he at mine, and since we both wanted to play, we'd divvy up responsibilites. One person, usually the one whose house it was, would be in charge of flying, the other would do everything else. Sometimes the flyer didn't even have control of the guns. This was a lot of fun, cause we had to talk about what we were doing, and it made it so one person could focus on keeping us not shot, lining up targets, and making them dead. The other was free to juggle shields and engines, watch radars, and stuff like that.

Did anybody else ever play that way? Are there any games where this kind of gameplay is advantageous or necessary? Gyromite comes to mind. I loved that game, and would love to see more games, especially puzzle/action hybrids where cooperation is essential. I know there is the whole, have to buy extra carts or controllers, or friends thing. But what do you think?

Tofystedeth on
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Posts

  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Haha, first thing is that you mentioned Space Sims but didn't mention Freespace 2. If you haven't checked out Freespace 2, you really should see what they've been up to.

    My brother and I used to play wing commander in pilot/co-pilot type mode, with me reading the manual and giving him info on the ships and stats, and watching the radar and such.


    Nowadays my sister and I play Trauma Center together, with her doing the remote work, and me 'assissting' her by selecing the proper instruments and frantically pointing at the screen. I don't think it's actually any more efficient but it's fun to be screaming and jabbing at the screen

  • KhavallKhavall Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I always liked in Planetside having gunners on the Galaxy transport.

    Same in SW:BFII. I liked the whole pilot/gunner mechanic.

  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Yeah, by the time I had Freespace 2, the people I had formally played with had gone away. Is there some co-op mode in this version? I was having a hard time finding stuff in those threads other than stuff about engine glow. I'm at work so didn't spend too much time at it though. (also your 2nd link is a little fubared)
    Is there something significantly different from this open release from the retail? I bought the Freespace 1 and 2 pack a few years ago.

    What really interests me for co-op is something where each player is charge of a different mechanic. Like, one moves the actor, the other changes the environment around the actor. I think with the wii, there might be some really cool stuff you could do with the remote for manipulating stuff. I dunno. Someone needs to make a game based on my half-formed ramblings.

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  • KhavallKhavall Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Galaxy seems to have a mechanic like that, where player 2 can interact with the environment a bit to help out player 1.

  • BamelinBamelin Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    (Reposting from an older thread The game described here is pretty much spot on what you are looking for --- cooperative multiplayer space sim)

    20000103hdb2.jpg


    So I was in another thread asking about good RTS's and I posted a blurb on Allegiance. I then redownloaded the game today and had probaly some of the most fun I've had in weeks. I was wondering if any PA'ers would like to take the plunge tonight and meet up for some Xwing/TiFighter style space shootem up? I was thinking we could meet around 9 EST (Monday) on whatever server is the busiest. (from what I've seen most games happen on the server which can accommodate up to 200 people).

    edit: For those planning on joining us tomorrow when you make an account use your nick from the forums and put -PA- before it so we can all find each other.

    Um yeah ... So what exactly is Allegiance?
    Allegiance is a team-oriented online multiplayer space combat simulation with real-time strategy (RTS) elements. It could be described as a much-improved "X-Wing vs. Tie-Fighter." Whereas most multiplayer online games have a very simplistic concept of teamwork, if any, Allegiance distinguishes itself by having a strategy interface that demands teamwork in order to accomplish anything. Despite all these advancements, Allegiance still works great on a Pentium 2 computer with a 56k modem.
    Allegiance can be played exclusively on LAN or internet servers. While it offers a multitude of gameplay modes with up to six teams, by far the most popular is the two-team conquest mode. In this mode, each team has a designated commander who oversees the asteroid mining operation, invests in the tech tree, buys and constructs new bases and commands the team in a semi-RTS like fashion from an overhead 3D map. The gameplay area is several sectors of space filled with asteroids on which the bases are built. There are roughly five tech-trees to pursue, resulting in a vast variety of different approaches to winning the game, including but not limited to: behind-enemy-lines teleport attacks, fighter raids, bombing, capturing enemy bases, stealth attacks and big capital ships. Typical games consist of 20 to 30 players per side, but big games can support up to 200 players simultaneously.

    Allegiance was released in 2000 by Microsoft. Unfortunately, it was let down by some serious bugs that took too long to iron out, a pay-per-month scheme, and lack of developer support and marketing. The game used to be hosted as part of Microsoft's Zone gaming service, but was eventually abandoned. Not to be defeated, a group of independent Allegiance players spearheaded the effort to keep the game alive and running. What eventually became the Free Allegiance Organization (FAO) kept the game operating by hosting its own lobby and game servers and by writing their own bug fixes for the game.

    In February 2004, Microsoft released the source code for Allegiance, and cited the devotion of its hard-core players for doing so. Now at last the game is truely free, the bugs that crippled the initial release have been fixed, and the game development is continued by the community. It still remains the best team-oriented


    Allegiance is free to play and still one of the best space sims/RTS hybrids out there.
    You can download the client at

    http://www.freeallegiance.org/


    Mods (Chat/Hud/A shittonof other stuff) can be downloaded here:

    http://www.freeallegiance.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=25801


    I highly suggest looking at the Academy "Learn How to Play" section first if you've never played before. The game is as hardcore as it gets in terms of the controls. Or you can be like me and jump right in just to get a quick taste. I hadn't played Allegiance since 2004 so I'm super rusty on what controls what. You can play with M/Kb or use a Joystick if that's more your taste.


    Sounds intriguing but how good could a seven year old game possibly be?

    beltercruisertrainsectolj4.jpg

    icfrigatesvstfintszn4.jpg

    gigattdiesbeforecappingzq7.jpg

    These screenshots barely convey exactly how awesome the game can get at times. It's also worth noting the community has literally taken over development of the game creating a vast amount of add on factions that make the game one of the best multiplayer space sims ever made.


    What do other people have to say about Allegiance?

    Quote:
    "It's almost impossible to figure out where to start raving about the gameplay in Allegiance. That's how good it is. " -- Firing Squad

    Quote:
    "Not at all unlike its definition, Allegiance requires obligation, support, dedication, and loyalty to one's team to succeed." -- Gamespy

    Quote:
    "If I had to describe Allegiance in one word, ambitious would probably just about do the trick. Microsoft's Allegiance combines elements of strategy and real-time combat into a massive multiplayer online-only space-action game that seems to have all it's creative juices flowing." -- Game Over

    Quote:
    "What a game like this needs to succeed is a good physics model, and a good navigation and communication system. Allegiance has both." -- PC Gameworld

    Quote:
    "...first true online team play experience...Allegiance’s ability to keep team play diverse as well as place significant importance on territory and technology are certainly some of its best aspects." -- Gamer's Alliance

    Quote:
    "It combines the best points of your everyday RTS game with the white knuckled action of a space combat simulation. In addition, Allegiance is played exclusively online, thereby creating an incredible multiplayer experience" -- Game Raiders

    Quote:
    "Every game is eventually going to be judged by its gameplay, in terms of immediate satisfaction and, especially, lasting value. Allegiance shoots and scores! Not since Tribes have I played a team-game so addictive and fun to play. It's almost impossible to figure out where to start raving about the gameplay in Allegiance. That's how good it is. " -- Firing Squad


    (continued)

  • BamelinBamelin Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    The Allegiance BackStory -- The Day of the Asteroid

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sdHhl3VnCM&mode=related&search=

    Gameplay/Promotional Video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgBfcfLmyKM&NR


    Allegiance has wildy different Factions to choose from each Faction has completely different technology trees, equipment and ships from the other.


    The Factions

    iccommercialyc3.jpg

    Order. Strength. Unity - This is the creed of the Iron Coalition. Formed as a space borne United Nations peacekeeping force, the Earth`s destruction has transformed the Iron Coalition into one of the dominant powers in space. Led by Brigadier General Derek Fisk, the Iron Coalition Struggles to restore and maintain order to the remaining members of the human race - by any means necessary.


    belterscommercialrl9.jpg

    The Belters - a loose collection of independent traders, prospectors, pirates, and privateers - share a common belief: that freedom from tyranny is the right of all humanity. Belters are a rough-hewn, unruly bunch of borderline anarchists. Led by unlikely hero Orion Sholes, the Belters pilot an odd mix of captured and jury-rigged equipment: the "Junkyard Armada."


    gigacorpcommercialur2.jpg

    Founded by the enigmatic Emmet Longstreet, this massive corporate entity has managed to survive the destruction of Earth. Led by Mercedes Kelleher - a cunning and ruthless businesswoman - GigaCorp has one goal: total domination of humanity`s remnants.


    bioscommercialhf8.jpg

    Originally spawned by GigaCorp genetic engineering projects, the BIOS are physically and mentally advanced, perfectly designed to withstand the rigors of life in space. After the death of their leader - GigaCorp founder Emmet Longstreet - the BIOS have launched a shadowy crusade against "stale gene" humanity, with the goal of dragging the human race into an evolutionary watershed.


    gtcommercialeh5.jpg

    The Ga'Taraan Federation - Founded twenty years ago by the uprising of two science colonies under the iron fist command of the Iron Coalition, the Ga'Taraan Federation remained isolated from the war that ensued after the destruction of Earth. Developing different technologies, they felt their involvement was necessary, and recently began assaults in the Solar System.


    phoenixlogo20lobbyir4.jpg

    The Phoenix Order is made up of Apocalypse survivors from deep underground at Area 51 and various shadow governments. They blame Earth's destruction on the greed and selfishness of the other "Spacer" factions. For years, hidden under the deadly debris clouds that cover the planet, they have been collecting left over military hardware and modified it with previously captured alien technology. The conditions of the atmosphere have made superior shield and scanner technology a priority. Without warning, they first reclaimed the Moon in a massive attack on a scale which was not seen since the arrival of the Dregh'klar Empire. While they still use Earth as a primary base of operations, the Moon has become one of their first lines of defense.


    rixiancommercialxy3.jpg

    First contact with life outside the solar system -- with the Rixian Unity. So far, the Rixian have proven themselves superior scientists, explorers, and, as has now been made clear to mankind, crusaders. Led by Issa Rix, a being so revered among his people that his very name stands for all Rixians, little is truly known about this species. Certainly not their true goals or intentions.

    dregcommercialyv4.jpg

    The Dreghklar Empire - the beast of the Apocalypse. This race may responsible for the destruction of Earth, after tampering with the already poor coordination of the Mass Conveyor System, believing that humanity was lost without its home. For hundreds of years, they have traveled and been a plague to intelligent life.


    Ships? Weapons? What can I expect?


    Regular and Medium Class Ships

    The Scout, the most versatile ship in the game, used in everything from early scouting to late TP2 dropping and bomber nanning. This ship is used both by newer pilots in simpler tasks and by veterans in very complex tasks. They can be used in stealth manners, or serve as attack ships on enemy utility crafts.

    The Fighter is also very versatile. With one of the greatest overall firepower, the fighter can be deployed very quickly and perform defensive and offensive operations. The small shields and hull of the craft cannot hold for very long.

    The Stealth Fighter is mostly used behind enemy lines. Most dangerous because of its specialization toward anti-utility weaponry, the stealth fighter can also fight from long ranges using its long range missiles, thus compensating for its weak hull.

    The Interceptor is a short range defense craft that is not easy to deploy because of its lack of ripcord ability. It relies on boosters for transport, but is a widely used ship for dogfighting, combining a strong hull to powerful weaponry. It cannot use missiles and can only fire at short ranges. It can be used in offensive operations extremely well, but was not designed for it.

    The Patroller, unique to GigaCorp, GigaCorp being the only ones that can only use scouts at the beginning, they developed the Patroller, which can be purchased quickly in the Garrison. It is now used by commanders as a great opening move to provide a upgrade over the basic scout. It works both as an offensive and defensive ship in the beginning of the game.

    The Stealth Bomber, like the stealth fighter, sneaks behind enemy lines. Once in position, it uses the anti-base missiles to destroy any kind of station. It is particularly lethal against smaller expansion stations, which are destroyed so quickly that defenders cannot react. They are generally deployed in groups against bigger stations.

    The Bomber is a straightforward assault ship, using turrets for defense, nanites for escort, and flying to an enemy station, destroying it with anti-base missiles. It relies on its medium shields and strong hull to survive as long as possible. It can be used in other, varied assaults.

    The Troop Transport captures enemy stations that have their shields down by docking in the green door, sending in soldiers specialized in taking over space stations.

    The Gunship is extremely similar to the bomber and only differs in three aspects: it mounts skycap turrets rather than ac turrets, it cannot fire anti-base missiles, and it can deploy pulse probes. These differences make it serve a mostly defensive purpose of either station defense or ship escort and support.

    The PT Bomber is a very unique craft developed by the Ga'Taraan Federation which relies on the unique LRR Lightning to quickly take out any small class ships and inflict important damage to medium class ships as well. When confronted to capital ships, it can rely on LRR Thunder, and use Kinetic Bombs against any station. Its medium shield and high-damage rockets make it extremely lethal in dogfights, usually destroying its target in only a few seconds.

    The Mustang is also unique to the Federation. Similar to Gunships, it allows for one turret gunner. The pilot also fires the ac turret from his weapon mount, along with LRM Hunter or MRM Seekers. It is much more maneuverable than a gunship, and can even use a light booster for travel, making it the only medium class ship that can boost.

    The Miner is used by all factions as a main source of income. Miners are AI-controlled ships that go to and from He3 asteroids.

    The Constructor is built within stations and sent off to asteroids to build a station. Only constructors can be used to build stations, and different types of stations will require different types of asteroids.

    The Caltrop is simply a minefield. An AI-controlled mine layer flies to a designated location and becomes a minefield. Usually deployed in alephs.

    The Drone is just like the minefield, except that it becomes a firing drone, a little robot that fires at every ship in range.

    The Rescue Drone is unique to the Ga'Taraan Federation. Similar to rescue probes, sanctuaries and pod beacons, it is more costly, but can actually fly to locations and pickup pods.

    The Eject Pod is used to save the lives of pilots whose ships have been destroyed. The pod has a limited amount of oxygen before the pilot dies: five minutes. Pilots in pods are useless to their team, and must be picked up as soon as possible, either by teammates who fly their ships on the pods, specialized equipment like rescue probes, or by flying into a station that can pickup pods.


    Capital Ships

    The Assault Ship serves as a moving teleport receiver. Its capacity to cloak allows it to move into enemy territory, with one turret seat and mine layers to give it a limited defense ability.

    The Destroyer is used solely for the attack of enemy ships, from small class to capital class, generally from great distances. Some destroyers can also attack stations.

    The Devastator is used similarly to a Gunship in that it mounts multiple turret cannons, specializing in taking out enemy ships with powerful Skycap cannons. Devastators can also destroy stations with specialized weaponry.

    The Missile Frigate is a big bomber. It uses stronger missiles, has more turrets, and is generally tougher. Its lack of ripcord ability is compensated for by its ability to cloak.

    The Cruiser is an improved Missile Frigate, that mounts an extra turret seat, and being tougher in general. Cruisers are capable of both ripcording and cloaking.

    The Carrier serves to reload and repair friendly ships. It is piloted through artificial intelligence. The Super Carrier, however, has a pilot and one turret seat, perhaps better serving its purpose.

    The Harbringer of Doom is the Ga'Taraan Federation's answer to "turtling" problems. The vessel is dedicated to carrying a Doomsday missile that annihilates anything on both sides of an aleph.

    The Flagship is Technoflux' only and unique capital ship. It can be upgraded three times from the standard model to give it the abilities of every other capital ship combined in a single deadly powerhouse.

  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Yeah, by the time I had Freespace 2, the people I had formally played with had gone away. Is there some co-op mode in this version? I was having a hard time finding stuff in those threads other than stuff about engine glow. I'm at work so didn't spend too much time at it though. (also your 2nd link is a little fubared)
    Is there something significantly different from this open release from the retail? I bought the Freespace 1 and 2 pack a few years ago.

    What really interests me for co-op is something where each player is charge of a different mechanic. Like, one moves the actor, the other changes the environment around the actor. I think with the wii, there might be some really cool stuff you could do with the remote for manipulating stuff. I dunno. Someone needs to make a game based on my half-formed ramblings.


    Oops, fixed the link. It's a link to the FSopen installer, which will let you automatically download and install the shiny new version of Freespace 2, along with some excellent custom campaigns and such. Give it a try! It's free! (the game still plays pretty much the same as the original but they've added content and new graphics)

    Also, Super Mario Galaxy on the Wii will apparently let two players play - one as Mario, the other apparently gathers stars to throw them at enemies.

  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    My friend and I tried to love Allegiance, really tried.


    It did not work.

    I don't know, maybe we were not the audience. I love the idea of space-combat sims, but without a horizon it always seems to me that the fighting part of it becomes "here is quake, with no walls, also you get sick after a bit?" I wish I knew how to make it fun, but I can't think of what to change, and without some form of pew-pew a space game could end up pretty boring.

    I do like the small-scale to large-scale play mechanics, though. I wish more games like that would come out.

  • DracilDracil Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Then try Threadspace: Hyperbol? There are objective maps, it's a lot more tactical, from how you customize your ship including ship forms, to what weapon modules you build on your production station, and how many of each, to your ability to aim curved shots. Yes, there is a bit of twitch reflex when you need to quickly activate defensive weapons against a swarm of shots coming at you, but it's all from a 3rd person perspective.

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