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[WoW]More dots, more dots.... okay stop dots (Warlock thread)

Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
edited March 2009 in MMO Extravaganza
Echo wrote: »
Time for a thread restart. Someone make a decent new OP and I'll lock this one.

"lock" this one, hehe. ;-)

Oh God it's a new expansion what do I do!

There is good news and bad news. The good news is that each of the trees has been taken in interesting new directions, and that warlock are among the best damage dealers in Wrath PVE. The bad news is that playing a warlock in PVE has gotten significantly more difficult since level 70, with every tree requiring pet micromanagement and/or a complicated, dynamic dot/nuke rotation. Let's have a quick looksee at the three trees.

Affliction:

Affliction got a solid look by a balance team tired of warlocks that didn't use their damage over time spells. The most interesting change is the new 51 point talent, Haunt. Haunt's a direct damage spell that temporarily buffs your DoT damage and provides a small self-heal. In addition, affliction's picked up a bunch of new talents that will help it scale along with the other trees. The reasoning behind this is complicated and mathematical, but it's enough to say that affliction should be a viable pve spec for a long time. Played well, affliction will easily top the meters in T7 raiding, and still affords decent survivability and mobility in that environment.

This is the build I run. There is a certain amount of dispute among people who study these things about the opportunity cost of the two +hit talents (suppression and cataclysm.) Molten core and demonic power are decent places to put points instead, as is imp. CoA (if CoE isn't needed in your raid.) You should only put one point in eradication; again, the math is complicated, but the way the internal cooldown and the proc rate work make the second and third points almost worthless.

Destruction:

Destruction also got some lovin', and is now pretty much exclusively "the fire tree." For the first time since seducenuking at 60, conflagrate is useful, providing a nifty haste buff. Chaos bolt also provides the green fire you've always wanted. Unfortunately destro's damage lags a bit behind affliction, but patch 3.1 will add some nice utility (including replenishment!) to the tree.

Here's a pve build. Because of how topheavy the destro tree is, most of those points are non-negotiable. Yes, it doesn't have shadowfury. Sorry. Builds that go a little farther down the demo tree to unholy power do comparable damage, but increase your reliance on a potentially fragile imp.

Demonology:

Finally, demonology. Demo's basically what it always was: survivability and pet buffs. Still, there are some nice new toys high in the tree, and a lot of the silly things low in the tree can be used productively now (improved voidwalker, I'm looking at you.) The easiest pve builds to play currently are also demonology/destruction hybrids that take advantage of the scaling talents in the middle of the demo tree.

31/40 is the most popular, although some people also like 41/30.

Oh god how do I play this?

Basically, warlock dps revolves around refreshing your DoTs on time, and firing off as many nukes (shadowbolt or incinerate) as you can when you aren't doing that. The demonology hybrid builds have this the easiest; they keep immolate, CoA and corruption up, and spam incinerate. Deeper destro builds put up the same dots and also spam incinerate, but must weave in conflag and chaosbolt. Affliction has to watch a menagerie of timers, squeeze in enough shadow bolts to keep shadow embrace up, then switch to the even more cumbersome drain soul as a primary nuke once a mob is below 25% health.

PeeVeePee

Basically, warlock PvP is fucked until at least patch 3.1. Prepare to get bent over by melee, ranged, and casters (even mages! Ever think you'd hear that?) Your survivability will be low, and the only added mobility is the questionably useful demonic circle. If you're determined to step into the arena, the dominant build right now seems to be deep demonology; metamorphisis is a decent panic button that will keep melee off you for at least a little while. If you want to pvp as affliction or destruction, you're still putting 11ish points into demonology to get soul link, and dumping the rest into your tree of choice. Good luck, you're going to need it.

Bonus content: upcoming 3.1 class changes:

Blue posters have seen fit to reveal some of what will change about warlocks in patch 3.1. To wit:
Eyonix wrote:
# Improved Shadow Bolt – this talent now provides a 5% spell critical strike buff (similar to Improved Scorch).
# Improved Soul Leech – this talent now provides Replenishment (similar to shadow priests)
# Drain Soul now has a chance to produce Soul Shards even if the target doesn’t die.
# Siphon Life no longer as an active ability but the talent grants the old Siphon Life effect to Corruption.
# Curse of Recklessness and Curse of Weakness have been combined into one spell
# Consume Shadows – this Voidwalker ability is no longer channeled but has a cooldown.
# Several other warlock talents have had their ranks reduced, their effects changed or removed. This list includes but is not limited to Demonic Empathy, Shadow Embrace, Eradication, Suppression, and Pandemic.
# Additional new talents have been added.

Is that vague as fuck? Yes it is! But 3.1 will hit the PTR soon, so hopefully we'll know more then.

Further Reading

If you're interested in the reasoning behind most of the braindump I've just tossed up here, the warlock class forum at ElitistJerks is a good place to start. This page has a broad breakout of how various specs stack up, as well as some fun destruction-related graphs.

Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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Posts

  • RizziRizzi Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I wanna go Destruction, but I've already started making the Frozen Shadoweave crap.
    It has no crit that I can remember off the top of my head. This is a bad thing yes?

  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    The only good destruction warlocks I know are in T6. Maybe it has really high gear reqs, sort of like hemo for rogues?

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  • ArikadoArikado Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    The only good Destruction warlocks I know have 30-31 points in Demonology.

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  • Racist JokeRacist Joke Registered User
    edited July 2007
    0/21/40 here, and I really like it. Used to be the ol UA/SB for the longest time, but wanted a change. I have little problem with threat, our MT is really good. I usually come around 3rd or so in the meters, and I crit a fair amount, so ISB is up quite a bit. It helps when you have another 0/21/40 lock in the raid to help keep ISB up as well. I need to raise my crit up a bit, my hit is okay for now, but I would like it higher, gotta get some hit/spell gems in my gear.

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  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Dyscord wrote: »
    I'm curious about people's opinions of the 0/21/40 build (or whatever passes for 41+ destro builds these days) in the raid environment. Good damage? Threat trouble? I need a change (even a brief one) from the ol' UA/shadowbolt build.

    Most likely worse damage than UA/shadowbolt, but as mentioned above, valuable for shadow vulnerability if you have other warlocks and shadow priests, and the threat should be a bit lower I think since a higher percentage of your damage is covered by your threat reduction talent.

    Just don't forget to keep using immolate and corruption.

    rodq.jpg
  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    So, I SUCK at PvP. Is anyone here capable of giving me a crash course in how to tackle various match-ups in arenas? (Specifically 5v5, though it all is helpful).

    I'm affliction specced, at the moment.

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  • Evil DaveEvil Dave Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Odd.. both the 0/21/40 dudes we've got are firelocks. They do very well for their gear (a bit lower than most of the other casters). Whenever I see someone with more than 21 points in destruction I assume fire spec...

    Demerdar wrote: »
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  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Fire spec is never higher dps, it just has more mana efficiency. Not having been a destro lock, I'm not sure how much worse shadowbolting is, but I imagine if you get into a shadowpriest group, it's no big deal, and the best thing about a destro lock in a raid is the shadow vulnerability(considering their lower dps than affliction, and lack of shadow embrace/malediction).

    rodq.jpg
  • khainkhain Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    So, I SUCK at PvP. Is anyone here capable of giving me a crash course in how to tackle various match-ups in arenas? (Specifically 5v5, though it all is helpful).

    I'm affliction specced, at the moment.

    Unless you have absurdly good gear you should probably spec soul link.

  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Nod, firelocks bring absolutely nothing to the raid besides improved healthstones, at least if you're going to give up things like shadow embrace, malediction, and imp buff because of DS, constant ISB procs are something.

    Our resident incinerate spammer does decent DPS but it really is just for the pretty graphics at this point. :P


    Edit: 5v5 advice from the noob ranks (we hover at 1650-1700). You're there to mess up the other team's shit. Instant DoTs while your teammates do the real burst damage, make sure you're doing the important things like Curse of Tongues where applicable, fear a healer, iHoT when things get crazy, spell lock, etc...

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  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    You know, it looks like a 40/21/0 build would be the shit. Why doesn't anyone take that?

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  • CharusCharus Registered User
    edited July 2007
    40 points affliction and demonic sacrifice? I'm not really sure what that would accomplish. So you sacrifice a Succubus for more shadow damage, but in return you'd lose your imp mana battery, the imp's health buff for your party, Unstable Affliction, and being able to get Improved Shadowbolt+Bane from Destro. I think what you'd lose speccing like that wouldn't be made up by what you gain.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I recently started to do arenas and as such I decided to switch my build from 5/41/15 (I feel the Felgaurd was a waste of a talent point as the Felhunter is a much better choice) to 30/31/0. While at first I was pretty worried that my build would suck as I am missing some key talents in both the Affliction and Demonology trees, I have found this build to be amazing.

    Heres my armory profile if anybody cares, my 2v2 team isnt doing so hot, and my 3v3 team was up to 1600 (again nothing great, but if we win we tear through the opposition and if we lose, we're making them work for it)
    http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Smolderthorn&n=Lokthaar

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  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    You know, it looks like a 40/21/0 build would be the shit. Why doesn't anyone take that?

    Yeah, I'd say if you absolutely must go only partially into affliction(and more than imp. lifetap) then you stop at SM. Otherwise, you get UA because it's just that damn good. There are so many boss fights where you have to move around, every bit of DoT damage is great.

    rodq.jpg
  • ArikadoArikado Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Yeah for raiding, Shadow Priest's Shadow Vulnerability stacking with Imp. Shadowbolt is really awesome.....for aggro. But for damage too.

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  • zagizagi Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    There's a warlock in my guild who has a similar build - 47/14/0. Barely puts out any dps. Doesn't shadowbolt much either, no matter how many times I've yelled at him to. He dots & drains life, shadowbolts very little. Oy.

    I'd rather pair a demonic sacrifice build with destruction. Even SM/DS didn't do enough damage compared to DS/Ruin, way back then. I can't imagine raiding without certain destruction talents either.

  • ArikadoArikado Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    40+Affliction with the rest in Demon is good for leveling if you're the cautious type. However, for DPS, you have to throw away the survivability for more damage. I haven't had a chance to get my Warlock into our Kara group yet, but in the recent instancing he's been in, he's been up there usually behind someone else due to CCing.

    If you are anti-Affliction, a deep Demon with the rest in Destro makes for a "OMG JUST DIE ALREADY" Warlock. These are the best to have in an Arena group as they can get in the mix without having to worry so much.

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  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    When levelling, I had a UA build with shadowburn and built up to demonic embrace etc. I survived well and had a lot of dps. Your dps will suffer however if you have to take shadow embrace and/or malediction.

    Worth it though.

    rodq.jpg
  • tuxkamentuxkamen Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    You can get either Malediction or Shadow Embrace maxed out without losing any DPS worth mentioning. You will have to sacrifice IHoT if you're limited to 41 points, however. If you want both, you will have to make some choices.


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  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Yeah, and IHoT is still quite useful for raids. There are a lot of things I hate to lose, like fel concentration, imp. drain soul or soul siphon, curse of exhaustion.

    rodq.jpg
  • RyokazeRyokaze Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    So, I SUCK at PvP. Is anyone here capable of giving me a crash course in how to tackle various match-ups in arenas? (Specifically 5v5, though it all is helpful).

    I'm affliction specced, at the moment.

    One important thing to note about warlock 5v5 (and 5's in general) is that very nearly every spec can find a useful place in arenas. However, you can't just throw a team together and expect to find your happy place, how well you do specifically as affliction can and will change depending on the class makeup of your group. Affliction, in my experience, works fairly poorly in a 3 dps attrition setup, you're an amazing damage soak for the other team to pour fire into while your poor healers will have to chain heals to keep you up, which kind of hurts the idea of an attrition setup.

    I played war/pal/priest/sham/affliction lock (I'm at 11k hp and 470 resilience, for reference) for a good long while, and while we did okay (ended at 2k for season 1, got to 1900 before changing team makeup for season 2) every single game was a struggle, mostly because I just didn't fit with the team design. You can't have such a weak link and expect to wear teams down. However! We decided to change the team up, using alts (very well geared alts) of the same players that were in my original 3 dps setup, and the team became rogue/pal/shadow priest/ele sham/affliction warlock. Suddenly, not every match is a struggle to win, certain team makeups we simply trounce every single time (just about anything with a warrior in it dies horribly.)

    So, I guess what I'm saying is that you can't expect to go into arenas with just any team and expect to have the same results as someone else with the same spec/gear. If you want to do 3 dps, you basically have to be an SL build of some sort. If you want to do 4 dps however, affliction is lovely, especially paired with a shadow priest, lots of instant ways to shut down healers, and excellent passive dot damage makes fights go smoothly.



    For your question specifically, warlocks are absolutely a denial class, you can very easily shut down one player for extended periods of time, and using a simultaneous spell lock + death coil, you can have three people being useless for 4 seconds at a time. I've won many games by keeping two healers locked down long enough to take out whatever their squishy happened to be.

  • tuxkamentuxkamen Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Septus wrote: »
    Yeah, and IHoT is still quite useful for raids. There are a lot of things I hate to lose, like fel concentration, imp. drain soul or soul siphon, curse of exhaustion.

    IHoT is not particularly raid-useful (though HoT might be, situationally). Instant HoT finds more use in either 5-man work or PVP.

    With 42 points, you can get everything that would really matter (except Nightfall/IHoT, which isn't crucial), and 44 would get you one of those if you wanted to lose Intensity. 42/0/19 only loses 1% crit versus 41/0/20, and that's not particularly important to you if you have 42 aff to start with.


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  • exisexis Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    So, I SUCK at PvP. Is anyone here capable of giving me a crash course in how to tackle various match-ups in arenas? (Specifically 5v5, though it all is helpful).

    I'm affliction specced, at the moment.

    This is about 2v2, and mostly about warriors, but hopefully some of the information will be useful in 5v5. It comes a warlock from our guild that had three 2000+ teams last season.
    Spoiler:

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  • Viper007BondViper007Bond Registered User
    edited July 2007
    I'm a strict shadow destro lock who does CoS -> Corruption -> Immolate -> Shadow Bolts until I have to renew the DoTs.

    I have 1083 shadow damage compared to 799 fire damage.

    So, is it even worth using Immolate in PvE? Or should I just skip it and move right onto shadow bolts?

    Raid buffed, my shadow bolts hit for around 3k non-crit and 6k crit. The initial hit of Immolate hits for about 1000. So I mean, I guess I answered my question right there (I'd do more damage just doing a shadow bolt), but I still thought I'd ask to be sure. heh

    [Sig removed for breaking the h-scroll. -Bogey]
  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    How do I solo level a Warlock. My first Warlock mind you.

    I have played, since beta no less, exclusively melee classes. Warrior, Rogue, Paladin and Rogue again all to 60 (second Rogue to 70)

    How do I do this?

    scarab you have mental problems
  • RizziRizzi Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    This is my warlock.
    Can anyone steer me in the direction of a few good upgrades?

  • CharusCharus Registered User
    edited July 2007
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    How do I solo level a Warlock. My first Warlock mind you.

    I have played, since beta no less, exclusively melee classes. Warrior, Rogue, Paladin and Rogue again all to 60 (second Rogue to 70)

    How do I do this?

    Quick and dirty guide to how you play an affliction warlock:

    Stat preference on gear: Spell damage > Stamina = Intellect (show a preference to stamina at later levels) > everything else >>>>>>>>>>> Spirit.

    1-10, just nuke mobs down. Use your imp to help you out.

    10-30, send in your voidwalker, let it get in a few of its aggro moves, then put on your dots and then wand/Drain Life it down. Once you have 5/5 Fel Concentration, move onto drain tanking. The higher you go, the less you should worry about the Voidwalker holding aggro.

    30-70 Drain tanking:

    -Have out a succubus (or voidwalker or phase shifted imp, at later levels you should know what you should have out), send it in against a mob.

    -Wind up an immolate (or Unstable Affliction at 50+) at the same time, and it should pull aggro off the succubus and onto you. This is good (you're much more durable and much easier to heal than the succubus).

    -Put the rest of your dots on.

    -If you have a reasonably high health, life tap, then drain life the mob to death at point blank range. You should be able to out-drain the damage most normal mobs do to you.

    -Once it's dead, loot, then do a move that regains you mana (life tap + bandage/cannibalize, Dark pact), and as long as you're reasonably full on health and mana, move onto the next one. The more spell damage you have, the easier it is to keep constantly full on mana and health.

    Prior to level 62, Try to never have completely full health while grinding, if your health is ever higher than your mana, life tap till they even out (this is so your health regen from demon armor is always doing something). At level 62, you get Fel Armor, and at that point trumpets should start playing and a message should pop up that says "You win the game," because once you start breaking the zero-sum nature of draining, it's just stupidly easy to keep yourself alive. Oh, and the extra spell damage isn't too bad either.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    After a while you don't really think of your health and mana as being seperate. Charus has the nut of it; warlock grinding is all about efficiently taking health from mobs, and turning enough of it into mana to keep yourself moving. You can do this pretty well before outland, especially since dark pact lets you cheat a little bit, but with fel armor it gets pretty disgusting.
    Doku-san wrote: »
    This is my warlock.
    Can anyone steer me in the direction of a few good upgrades?

    You're pretty well set up for not having any raid/herioc gear. Do you raid? If so, just check out the Karazhan loot table on Wowhead and work it out for yourself.

    Otherwise, there a couple good instance drops. The rest of the Oblivion set is good, and the two piece set bonus is hard to beat for grinding. You can finish up the shadoweave set, which will serve you well for a good long while. The other tailoring sets are good, also.

    I'm going to give you the same advice I took to heart on my own warlock: run shadow labs. Over and over. Aside from the D3 pieces (dirty murmur) there's the greatsword of horrid dreams, and a nice wand. And probably some other stuff I'm forgetting. I think at one point, about half of my pre-raid gear was from that instance.

    Heroic badges will get you a good offhand and a trinket. Also, nethers for the really good tailoring stuff.

    Edit: also, all the Honor reward dreadweave is pretty good, and not very hard to get these days. Just grind AV.

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  • Viper007BondViper007Bond Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Doku-san wrote: »
    This is my warlock.
    Can anyone steer me in the direction of a few good upgrades?
    Get into Karazhan if you aren't there already. Getting there / geared for there should be your sole purpose if you're a PvE player.

    [Sig removed for breaking the h-scroll. -Bogey]
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy Fighting the War on String Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I'm 41 affliction, approaching 1k shadow damage unbuffed. I actually stopped using immolation and I found that my dps went up. I had a much easier time keeping up a curse of doom, corruption, UA, and siphon life without the immolate thrown in there.

    75trafim7bi2.png
  • Viper007BondViper007Bond Registered User
    edited July 2007
    I'm 41 affliction, approaching 1k shadow damage unbuffed. I actually stopped using immolation and I found that my dps went up. I had a much easier time keeping up a curse of doom, corruption, UA, and siphon life without the immolate thrown in there.
    Curse of Doom? Isn't Curse of Shadow a better solution?

    [Sig removed for breaking the h-scroll. -Bogey]
  • SlimceaSlimcea Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I'm beginning to wonder if Affliction is really that good for raiding once you're past the T4 raids though. Our guild isn't too particularly far into SSC, but I'm seeing tons of aggro wipe mechanics on bosses or the need to burn down things real quick.

    Hydross wipes aggro each phase transition; Lurker loses all dots when he dives and you want to burn down the adds real quick; Spitfire Totems need to burned down too; Leo has aggro wipes all over in human form, making dotting a PITA and Inner Demon requires favours burst damage. All this means your dots fall off or aren't being renewed at some point. Doesn't help that T5 pieces are a loss in pure shadow damage from FSW but a gain in Crit, which is of marginal value to affliction.

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  • SamorisSamoris Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Slimcea wrote: »
    I'm beginning to wonder if Affliction is really that good for raiding once you're past the T4 raids though. Our guild isn't too particularly far into SSC, but I'm seeing tons of aggro wipe mechanics on bosses or the need to burn down things real quick.

    Hydross wipes aggro each phase transition; Lurker loses all dots when he dives and you want to burn down the adds real quick; Spitfire Totems need to burned down too; Leo has aggro wipes all over in human form, making dotting a PITA and Inner Demon requires favours burst damage. All this means your dots fall off or aren't being renewed at some point. Doesn't help that T5 pieces are a loss in pure shadow damage from FSW but a gain in Crit, which is of marginal value to affliction.

    I've been informed that on the lurker fight, while the lurker is below water DoTs will continue to tick, they just expire while he's down there.

    Junpei wrote: »
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  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy Fighting the War on String Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I'm 41 affliction, approaching 1k shadow damage unbuffed. I actually stopped using immolation and I found that my dps went up. I had a much easier time keeping up a curse of doom, corruption, UA, and siphon life without the immolate thrown in there.
    Curse of Doom? Isn't Curse of Shadow a better solution?

    This is assuming someone else put up CoS. And doom will probably generate more damage then shadows will if it's just you.

    75trafim7bi2.png
  • Toxic PickleToxic Pickle Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I'm curious about something...

    I recently levelled my Warlock to 54, and on this forum and many others, I've read over and over again people talking about using the Succubus with Affliction spec and 'drain-tanking'.

    The question I have about this tactic is... why drain-tank with a succubus, when a Void Walker will tank for me and let me DoT and wand and drain to my heart's content? Yes, he does lose aggro a bit more often nowadays because I do a lot of damage, and yeah I know a VW is not a good idea for PvP.. but for regular ol' PvE grinding... why use anything but a VW?

    I've found that even in doing 5-mans, which are always PuGs, I still keep my VW out most times because I just don't trust most tanks to keep aggro, much less to actually notice when either myself or the group healer is under attack. The VW is like a safety net for getting aggro quickly off squishies.

    So.. what am I doing wrong?

  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Succubus does more damage that a voidwalker so things die faster; drain tanking keeps your health and mana constantly topped off. It's just efficient.

    Also I'd rather look at my succubus's ass than a blue blob.

    >.>

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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Back when I was leveling up I would use the succubus a lot, because her damage held aggro almost as well as the VW, especially in the x5-x9 level range (right before the VW gets the next rank of taunt.)

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  • emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I remember using the Succi from 30 to 60, but when I got my free respec I took the Felgaurd and he was amazing. Now that I have specd out of Felgaurd, I find that the Succi just cant hold aggro like she used to and I have to rely on the Void Walker which totally slows me down. Luckily, being 70, I rarely use anything but the Imp/Felhunter.

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  • RizziRizzi Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Are the Bloodfyre Robes of Annihilation worth wearing over the Robes of Oblivion?
    No great gems in the Oblivion. Both have a +150 hp enchant on 'em.

  • Viper007BondViper007Bond Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Doku-san wrote: »
    Are the Bloodfyre Robes of Annihilation worth wearing over the Robes of Oblivion?
    No great gems in the Oblivion. Both have a +150 hp enchant on 'em.
    Oblivion is better. You can socket it with crit if you need crit, or socket it with +dmg or +int gems. A lot more versatile.

    Not to mention that if you get 2 pieces of the set and have dark pact, it owns all until you get T4 or so.

    [Sig removed for breaking the h-scroll. -Bogey]
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