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[WoW]More dots, more dots.... okay stop dots (Warlock thread)

Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
edited March 2009 in MMO Extravaganza
Echo wrote: »
Time for a thread restart. Someone make a decent new OP and I'll lock this one.

"lock" this one, hehe. ;-)

Oh God it's a new expansion what do I do!

There is good news and bad news. The good news is that each of the trees has been taken in interesting new directions, and that warlock are among the best damage dealers in Wrath PVE. The bad news is that playing a warlock in PVE has gotten significantly more difficult since level 70, with every tree requiring pet micromanagement and/or a complicated, dynamic dot/nuke rotation. Let's have a quick looksee at the three trees.

Affliction:

Affliction got a solid look by a balance team tired of warlocks that didn't use their damage over time spells. The most interesting change is the new 51 point talent, Haunt. Haunt's a direct damage spell that temporarily buffs your DoT damage and provides a small self-heal. In addition, affliction's picked up a bunch of new talents that will help it scale along with the other trees. The reasoning behind this is complicated and mathematical, but it's enough to say that affliction should be a viable pve spec for a long time. Played well, affliction will easily top the meters in T7 raiding, and still affords decent survivability and mobility in that environment.

This is the build I run. There is a certain amount of dispute among people who study these things about the opportunity cost of the two +hit talents (suppression and cataclysm.) Molten core and demonic power are decent places to put points instead, as is imp. CoA (if CoE isn't needed in your raid.) You should only put one point in eradication; again, the math is complicated, but the way the internal cooldown and the proc rate work make the second and third points almost worthless.

Destruction:

Destruction also got some lovin', and is now pretty much exclusively "the fire tree." For the first time since seducenuking at 60, conflagrate is useful, providing a nifty haste buff. Chaos bolt also provides the green fire you've always wanted. Unfortunately destro's damage lags a bit behind affliction, but patch 3.1 will add some nice utility (including replenishment!) to the tree.

Here's a pve build. Because of how topheavy the destro tree is, most of those points are non-negotiable. Yes, it doesn't have shadowfury. Sorry. Builds that go a little farther down the demo tree to unholy power do comparable damage, but increase your reliance on a potentially fragile imp.

Demonology:

Finally, demonology. Demo's basically what it always was: survivability and pet buffs. Still, there are some nice new toys high in the tree, and a lot of the silly things low in the tree can be used productively now (improved voidwalker, I'm looking at you.) The easiest pve builds to play currently are also demonology/destruction hybrids that take advantage of the scaling talents in the middle of the demo tree.

31/40 is the most popular, although some people also like 41/30.

Oh god how do I play this?

Basically, warlock dps revolves around refreshing your DoTs on time, and firing off as many nukes (shadowbolt or incinerate) as you can when you aren't doing that. The demonology hybrid builds have this the easiest; they keep immolate, CoA and corruption up, and spam incinerate. Deeper destro builds put up the same dots and also spam incinerate, but must weave in conflag and chaosbolt. Affliction has to watch a menagerie of timers, squeeze in enough shadow bolts to keep shadow embrace up, then switch to the even more cumbersome drain soul as a primary nuke once a mob is below 25% health.

PeeVeePee

Basically, warlock PvP is fucked until at least patch 3.1. Prepare to get bent over by melee, ranged, and casters (even mages! Ever think you'd hear that?) Your survivability will be low, and the only added mobility is the questionably useful demonic circle. If you're determined to step into the arena, the dominant build right now seems to be deep demonology; metamorphisis is a decent panic button that will keep melee off you for at least a little while. If you want to pvp as affliction or destruction, you're still putting 11ish points into demonology to get soul link, and dumping the rest into your tree of choice. Good luck, you're going to need it.

Bonus content: upcoming 3.1 class changes:

Blue posters have seen fit to reveal some of what will change about warlocks in patch 3.1. To wit:
Eyonix wrote:
# Improved Shadow Bolt – this talent now provides a 5% spell critical strike buff (similar to Improved Scorch).
# Improved Soul Leech – this talent now provides Replenishment (similar to shadow priests)
# Drain Soul now has a chance to produce Soul Shards even if the target doesn’t die.
# Siphon Life no longer as an active ability but the talent grants the old Siphon Life effect to Corruption.
# Curse of Recklessness and Curse of Weakness have been combined into one spell
# Consume Shadows – this Voidwalker ability is no longer channeled but has a cooldown.
# Several other warlock talents have had their ranks reduced, their effects changed or removed. This list includes but is not limited to Demonic Empathy, Shadow Embrace, Eradication, Suppression, and Pandemic.
# Additional new talents have been added.

Is that vague as fuck? Yes it is! But 3.1 will hit the PTR soon, so hopefully we'll know more then.

Further Reading

If you're interested in the reasoning behind most of the braindump I've just tossed up here, the warlock class forum at ElitistJerks is a good place to start. This page has a broad breakout of how various specs stack up, as well as some fun destruction-related graphs.

Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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'we got hella people, they got helicopters'
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Posts

  • emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I remember using the Succi from 30 to 60, but when I got my free respec I took the Felgaurd and he was amazing. Now that I have specd out of Felgaurd, I find that the Succi just cant hold aggro like she used to and I have to rely on the Void Walker which totally slows me down. Luckily, being 70, I rarely use anything but the Imp/Felhunter.

    camo_sig2.png
  • RizziRizzi Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Are the Bloodfyre Robes of Annihilation worth wearing over the Robes of Oblivion?
    No great gems in the Oblivion. Both have a +150 hp enchant on 'em.

  • Viper007BondViper007Bond Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Doku-san wrote: »
    Are the Bloodfyre Robes of Annihilation worth wearing over the Robes of Oblivion?
    No great gems in the Oblivion. Both have a +150 hp enchant on 'em.
    Oblivion is better. You can socket it with crit if you need crit, or socket it with +dmg or +int gems. A lot more versatile.

    Not to mention that if you get 2 pieces of the set and have dark pact, it owns all until you get T4 or so.

    [Sig removed for breaking the h-scroll. -Bogey]
  • RizziRizzi Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Well, never mind :P
    Got the cloth for my frozen shadoweave robes.
    Just need to get the last 16 water primals..

  • exisexis Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Doku-san wrote: »
    Well, never mind :P
    Got the cloth for my frozen shadoweave robes.
    Just need to get the last 16 water primals..

    That reminds me. Need to farm primals on riz's warlock. I continue to be amazed at how easy it is. I've played a shadowpriest, a (poorly geared) mage, and a rogue. And nothing even begins to approach grinding on a warlock.

    XBL: ecksys | LoL: deyur | Path of Exile: deyur | Check out our Kiwi games podcast
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  • RizziRizzi Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Just got out of my first heroic instance. I am.. Bored.
    TK instances, the only thing I want is the belt from Arc.
    We did Mech.
    /puke

  • Viper007BondViper007Bond Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Doku-san wrote: »
    Just got out of my first heroic instance. I am.. Bored.

    <img class=" title=":lol:" class="bbcode_smiley" /> Try heroic BM or OH. Now those will definitely not make you bored. ;)

    [Sig removed for breaking the h-scroll. -Bogey]
  • RizziRizzi Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Yea.. I gotta get attuned for them first. Which means I gotta run 10000 more pugs first.. Really doesn't seem worth it.
    Everyone in my guild was telling me how "awesome" mechanar was on heroic..
    "Here guys have some tokens that you need a bazillion of for anything good"
    Wow! Awesome!
    "Here guys have some sub-par level 70 blue loot"
    Wow! Awesome!

  • Viper007BondViper007Bond Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Doku-san wrote: »
    Got the cloth for my frozen shadoweave robes.

    Frozen Shadoweave kicks ass. I passed on my T4 shoulders today and opted to keep my FS instead -- they're just that good. I'll be passing on my T5 as well probably (when we finally get people to stay on long enough to get that bastard down).
    Doku-san wrote: »
    Just need to get the last 16 water primals..

    Fishing FTW! You can fish about 2 primal waters in literally 5 minutes. :)
    Doku-san wrote: »
    Everyone in my guild was telling me how "awesome" mechanar was on heroic..

    Meh, I find Mech rather boring. Only reason I ever do it is because the first 3 badges are literally a walk in the park.
    Doku-san wrote: »
    "Here guys have some sub-par level 70 blue loot"
    Wow! Awesome!

    Most bosses drop the same blues as non-heroic, or at least equivalent crappy blues. It's the badges that really matter and even more, it's the kickass epics that drop off the final boss in each heroic. Those are why you should do heroics.

    [Sig removed for breaking the h-scroll. -Bogey]
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    The Mechanaar is 'awesome' on heroic because the first three bosses are super quick and super easy. If it didn't lock you for a day, some people would never leave the place.

    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    'we got hella people, they got helicopters'
  • RizziRizzi Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Meh. The end bosses loot is rather sup-par for my warlock in TK.
    I guess I should save up for the offhand that everyone seems to use though.

  • exisexis Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Doku-san wrote: »
    Got the cloth for my frozen shadoweave robes.

    Frozen Shadoweave kicks ass. I passed on my T4 shoulders today and opted to keep my FS instead -- they're just that good. I'll be passing on my T5 as well probably (when we finally get people to stay on long enough to get that bastard down).

    Why? I'm assuming you're talking about the shoulders, which are better than Frozen Shadoweave (I haven't looked at the other pieces, but I'd assume they're the same). And the set bonus doesn't really seem that great. When do warlocks run out of mana anyway?

    XBL: ecksys | LoL: deyur | Path of Exile: deyur | Check out our Kiwi games podcast
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  • Viper007BondViper007Bond Registered User
    edited July 2007
    exis wrote: »
    Why? I'm assuming you're talking about the shoulders, which are better than Frozen Shadoweave (I haven't looked at the other pieces, but I'd assume they're the same). And the set bonus doesn't really seem that great. When do warlocks run out of mana anyway?

    My server's down at the moment, so I can't get the exact numbers, but I'd loose something like 10 damage (I thought it was more than that, hmm). Then again, I would gain 14 hit (fuck, I need hit) and a little hp and mana (meh).

    But don't underestimate the set bonus. Each shadow bolt heals me for 60 to 125.


    *sigh* Now that I think of it though, I'm starting to regret passing on the T4 now, damnit. T5 I definitely don't want (the set bonus sucks), but those T4 are starting to look nicer and nicer. Plus the T4 (4) set isn't half bad...

    Oh well, I can take solace in that I rolled for fun (to see what I woulda gotten) and I wouldn't have won anyway. heh

    Next week perhaps...

    [Sig removed for breaking the h-scroll. -Bogey]
  • RizziRizzi Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Four out of sixteen primal waters done.
    My eyes hurt..

  • Viper007BondViper007Bond Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Doku-san wrote: »
    Four out of sixteen primal waters done.
    My eyes hurt..

    The eels NE of Shat are easy to kill and drop motes of water. I farmed TONS of the ones on Elemental Plat., but I think those eels might be easier.

    [Sig removed for breaking the h-scroll. -Bogey]
  • RizziRizzi Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I'll kill anything if it means I dont need to swim. The water gives me a headache..

  • RizziRizzi Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Woo. Full Frozen Shadoweave set.
    Now to try and get the pattern for the battlecast hood etc.

  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    exis wrote: »
    Why? I'm assuming you're talking about the shoulders, which are better than Frozen Shadoweave (I haven't looked at the other pieces, but I'd assume they're the same). And the set bonus doesn't really seem that great. When do warlocks run out of mana anyway?

    My server's down at the moment, so I can't get the exact numbers, but I'd loose something like 10 damage (I thought it was more than that, hmm). Then again, I would gain 14 hit (fuck, I need hit) and a little hp and mana (meh).

    But don't underestimate the set bonus. Each shadow bolt heals me for 60 to 125.


    *sigh* Now that I think of it though, I'm starting to regret passing on the T4 now, damnit. T5 I definitely don't want (the set bonus sucks), but those T4 are starting to look nicer and nicer. Plus the T4 (4) set isn't half bad...

    Oh well, I can take solace in that I rolled for fun (to see what I woulda gotten) and I wouldn't have won anyway. heh

    Next week perhaps...

    The T5 four-piece is awesome though. And if you're low on hit, the shoulders are a huge upgrade in that sense. I think with proper socketing I lost like 5 shadow damage for more stam, more int, and a lot more hit. It's arguable about the set bonus but there's few fights where I even approach mana issues (Void Reaver, fucking robots; Tidewalker if I get tombed a lot), it's nice but just not necessary.

    Organichu wrote:
    she's some sort of malevolent creature who bores through this world into the next using hatred and suffering as her fuel
  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Doku-san wrote: »
    Woo. Full Frozen Shadoweave set.
    Now to try and get the pattern for the SPELLSTRIKE hood etc.

    FixT

    Organichu wrote:
    she's some sort of malevolent creature who bores through this world into the next using hatred and suffering as her fuel
  • RizziRizzi Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    riz wrote: »
    Doku-san wrote: »
    Woo. Full Frozen Shadoweave set.
    Now to try and get the pattern for the SPELLSTRIKE hood etc.

    FixT

    I.. I need crit?
    I'd rather the stam coming out the ass. I do plan on doing some PvP aswell..

  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Spellstrike has a little bit more damage plus all that hit, and crit doesn't exactly do nothing when half the DPS of an affliction lock is still shadowbolt spam, plus ISB procs are win. I guess if you're not raiding you don't care much about hit but it pains me to see people ignore that stat. It's so big.

    Edit: Also, the set bonus!

    Organichu wrote:
    she's some sort of malevolent creature who bores through this world into the next using hatred and suffering as her fuel
  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Riz, Spellstrike or T4 hat? Or the hat of Netherspite? Different strokes, etc?

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  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Riz, Spellstrike or T4 hat? Or the hat of Netherspite? Different strokes, etc?

    Spellstriiiiiike. The Netherspite one is Spellstrike minus two gem sockets. Voidheart is decent but still less damage and no hit. Value of a meta socket is debatable I guess.

    Organichu wrote:
    she's some sort of malevolent creature who bores through this world into the next using hatred and suffering as her fuel
  • Racist JokeRacist Joke Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Spellstrike is superior, but holy moly is it butt ugly. I have my helm turned off cause I hate how it looks. I have my T4 helm, and I wish it was better, cause it looks badass.

    Steam
    Xbox Live: Kunohara
  • BlueDestinyBlueDestiny Registered User
    edited August 2007
    Any tips on getting to 58 from 51 as an affliction lock? I'm kinda screwed right now as most of my quests are orange and spread out all over the damn place.

    Any sufficiently advanced friendship is indistinguishable from magic.
  • bearsuitbearsuit Registered User
    edited August 2007
    Any tips on getting to 58 from 51 as an affliction lock? I'm kinda screwed right now as most of my quests are orange and spread out all over the damn place.

    Grind it, or use a leveling guide like Jame's.

  • EWomEWom Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Any tips on getting to 58 from 51 as an affliction lock? I'm kinda screwed right now as most of my quests are orange and spread out all over the damn place.


    Felwood should get you to 55, at which point you can go rock in Winterspring for awhile.

    Felwood is good too cause you can farm demons which drop shit tailors want, so if you are a tailor good for you. If you are not, good for you gold count.

    Then in winterspring you can get Firewater's from the furblogs. Which is nice because there is nothing scarier than a warlock, except a bigger warlock O_o

    I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. - Thomas Jefferson

    The goal of our founding fathers was freedom. The goal of our current politicians is control.
  • RizziRizzi Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Soooo.. I just picked up this Mana-Etched Crown
    Not quite sure if I shoud wear it.
    I have Hydromancer's Headwrap with a swift starfire diamond, in it and the Sha'tar spell damage and spell hit enchant on it.
    Is it worth putting them on the Crown as well and wearing that?

  • ApplebeeApplebee Registered User
    edited August 2007
    With 3k hits and 6k crits and 17% spell
    crit you shadowbolts do

    6x0.17+3x0.83= 3.51K damage

    = 1400 DPS


    immolate =

    1000 damage + 1200 over time

    = 1466 DPS

    so you gain a bit of damage, but lose 0.17 of a shadow vunerability proc, so it could go either way depending on how many shadow users and how many other warlocks there are.

  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    BLAAAAAAAAH. So my raid needed another warlock for Magtheridon, so I got off my warrior and brought my lock in. Now my lock's gear isn't great, with about 800 shadow damage, 600 something spell damage, and 6% hit, but he has full frozen shadoweave and some purples from karazhan. I was applying CoT to the last two adds, taking care of infernals on half the room, and clicking cubes on the cube furthest away from Magtheridon.

    Does this all add up to doing LESS damage than the tanks. Sigh. Whenever I did DPS, I kept dots up, and shadowbolted, but, ugh. Just, ugh.

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  • Racist JokeRacist Joke Registered User
    edited August 2007
    Your not gonna be doing alot of damage in the fight, since you are taking care of CoT on the guys, and cc'ing the infernals. If my raid leader sees a lock near the top of the meters, and infernals were killing people, he knows that lock isn't doing his job.

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  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    We tend to sneak further up the meter in phase 2, but yeah, it is always suspicious when a lock does unusually well in that fight. It helps to keep DoTs up on as many adds as possibly between CC though. And we preemptively stack DoTs and Curse of Dooms on the third add before switching to the first, it gets him down quite a bit by the time everyone else gets over there.

    Organichu wrote:
    she's some sort of malevolent creature who bores through this world into the next using hatred and suffering as her fuel
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    It's not the best damage fight in the world for warlocks, but I can sneak up to 6 or 7 on the meters. I'm in the first cube group, and I'm usually the last warlock to have CoT responsibility during phase 1.

    I'm pretty well geared, but so is the rest of my raid; I don't see any reason you should wind up doing less damage than the tank, unless you've got an ubergeared bear tanking mags or something.

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    'we got hella people, they got helicopters'
  • Viper007BondViper007Bond Registered User
    edited August 2007
    Applebee wrote: »
    With 3k hits and 6k crits and 17% spell
    crit you shadowbolts do

    6x0.17+3x0.83= 3.51K damage

    = 1400 DPS


    immolate =

    1000 damage + 1200 over time

    = 1466 DPS

    so you gain a bit of damage, but lose 0.17 of a shadow vunerability proc, so it could go either way depending on how many shadow users and how many other warlocks there are.

    Awesome, thanks. :D

    [Sig removed for breaking the h-scroll. -Bogey]
  • KrunkMcGrunkKrunkMcGrunk Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    So what is a good leveling build? Demonology?

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  • ArikadoArikado Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Doku-san wrote: »
    Soooo.. I just picked up this Mana-Etched Crown
    Not quite sure if I shoud wear it.
    I have Hydromancer's Headwrap with a swift starfire diamond, in it and the Sha'tar spell damage and spell hit enchant on it.
    Is it worth putting them on the Crown as well and wearing that?

    No.

    Go to Shadowmoon Valley and do the spectricles chain (not sure if you're horde or alliance or if it differs at all). That orc warlock next to the altar of shadows w/e his name is ends up having the last three parts of the chain. Just get a group for the Armor part of that chain and the rest of it is easily soloable. The riders should be cake for mages and priests but could be troublesome for Warlocks. I sac'd my Void and spammed Seed on them, though. :p You end up getting that Nethercrap palette swapped thing that everyone else is wearing.

    Also, don't bother with head enchants or meta gems unless it's an epic or you're filthy rich.

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  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Dyscord wrote: »
    It's not the best damage fight in the world for warlocks, but I can sneak up to 6 or 7 on the meters. I'm in the first cube group, and I'm usually the last warlock to have CoT responsibility during phase 1.

    I'm pretty well geared, but so is the rest of my raid; I don't see any reason you should wind up doing less damage than the tank, unless you've got an ubergeared bear tanking mags or something.

    If you aren't assigned to a specific curse, you can take advantage of curse of doom. When he gets banished, instead of being immune, you deal 2x damage against him. Each time you -aren't- channeling, put CoD up when the other team is channels. Since there is about a minute between each blast wave, when it's your turn to channel, your CoD will go off and you'll get a little extra damage.

    You still won't top the dps meter, but hey it helps. :)

    Also: I put up shadow ward right before I start channeling. Hardly necessary, but it's nice to absorb a little damage on your own.

    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpgsteam~tinythumb.png
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I'm not sure how long you keep him banished, but we probably don't do it for more than a couple seconds.

    Really, warlock damage on the fight post-phase one is probably better than most classes, since your dots can be ticking while you're channeling or being bounced around. It's just that you won't catch the few people that have been DPSing since the first channeler went down.

    You could reset your meter after the last channeler dies, if you wanted, which would give you a better idea of how you compared to other classes.

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    'we got hella people, they got helicopters'
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    It is only for about 2-3 seconds, but his blastwave is on such a consistant schedule that curse of doom works well here.

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  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Warlock update: got the gold bloodrobe, hot stuff.

    also, wrecking peoples shit with math

    scarab you have mental problems
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