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The older I get the smarter my father becomes

WerrickWerrick Registered User
edited August 2007 in Debate and/or Discourse
I was discussing the idea that as a person gets older they become more and more aware of the fact that many of the things their parents were telling them or trying to teach them when they were kids become more and more true. Samual Clemens once said;
When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.

It's my observation that something happens in the brain of a person at the age of 20/21 and then again at around 30 allowing them firstly to see all that their parents were trying to teach them without the element of rebellion, and then again at around thirty because at that point the average person has seen enough to actually have the perspective. Some of the fire goes out in one's belly, allowing for perspective.

One poster in the other thread said that the older they get the more they realized how their parents had made terrible choices and based on that, and the fact that they realize more and more how human they are. I didn't reply in that thread, but it's my contention that this isn't actually inconsistent with my point of view.

Though I consider myself a shining example of this idea, I also see my parents now as more human. In fact, in part due to the fact that I have this perspective now and because I see their humanity and recognize their mistakes, and in part because we've talked about those mistakes do I see this.

I would be interested to know your perspective.

Werrick on
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be rude without having their skulls split, as a general thing."

-Robert E. Howard
Tower of the Elephant
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Posts

  • HydroSqueegeeHydroSqueegee ULTRACAT!!!™®© Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    The older i get, the more i realize how obviously retarded everyone was back as a teenager. Im only 27 and I cant stand the younger generation. They are so dumb and unaware as to how the world works its mind boggling (I want to smack the smug smiles off their faces). Once they realize MTV is a crock of shit and everything they have learned about society up to that point in their life is a lie, they have finally matured enough to understand the older folks who called them all god damned retards in the first place. And finally acknowledge that they, in fact, did not know more than their parents.

    zW0NKxe.png
  • ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS
    edited August 2007
    When I was little, my dad new everything. In the past five years, however, I watched him make a mistake I had already made and learned from and follow it up with a second, related mistake that's a lot more difficult, expensive and lawyer-related to correct. In a field he has vastly more experience than myself in, no less.

    He's still really smart and knows a lot of things and excels at problem-solving, but man can he make some bad decisions.

    DAMM
    Drunks Against Mad Mothers
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I must be some sort of freak. I found teenagers to be stupid as a teenager. :P

  • brandotheninjamasterbrandotheninjamaster Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I myself did not really have any teenage angst or a big thing with rebellion. I looked at the people I went to school with and just couldn't identify with them. When I was told something by my parents I listened the first time so I didn't have to go through the trouble of learning things the 'hard way'.

    The older i get, the more i realize how obviously retarded everyone was back as a teenager. Im only 27 and I cant stand the younger generation. They are so dumb and unaware as to how the world works its mind boggling (I want to smack the smug smiles off their faces). Once they realize MTV is a crock of shit and everything they have learned about society up to that point in their life is a lie, they have finally matured enough to understand the older folks who called them all god damned retards in the first place. And finally acknowledge that they, in fact, did not know more than their parents.

    I second that statement.

  • HaphazardHaphazard Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I guess Sam Clemens was talking about puberty there, also known as the "parents are stupid" phase.

  • KingGrahamKingGraham Registered User
    edited August 2007
    As I grow older (25 and counting) I can't say that I find my father's advice any more relevant than I did when I was in High School. The assumption always seemed to be that we were the same person, and everything that was good for him would be good for me. This is demonstrably not so.

    So, personally, I don't find much truth in that particular adage.

    On High Schoolers now, they can be annoying, and I can't tell whether they're more ignorant than I was at the time, but I certainly don't hate them. Their world is small, but about the same percentage as always will figure out that there's a whole planet out there with problems that don't revolve around Kanye West and 50 Cent. And those people will grow up to be presidents and astronauts....or just be massively out bred by the swarming masses of stupid.

  • musanmanmusanman Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    As somebody who deals with teenagers on a daily basis I understand the hatred. At school I can usually avoid getting mad and try to help them (after all they're stupid of course they're going to act stupid). When I go to like a mall or something though, it can be hard not to wanna choke a bitch.

    That said, my first 2 weeks at college I remember thinking holy shit I was an idiot, I didn't know anything about anything. I wish that moment could come sooner for a lot of kids, but it would require a vastly different system for it to happen.

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  • WerrickWerrick Registered User
    edited August 2007
    When I was little, my dad new everything. In the past five years, however, I watched him make a mistake I had already made and learned from and follow it up with a second, related mistake that's a lot more difficult, expensive and lawyer-related to correct. In a field he has vastly more experience than myself in, no less.

    He's still really smart and knows a lot of things and excels at problem-solving, but man can he make some bad decisions.

    I'm not really talking about the foibles, inadequacies and failings of parents, that happens to every human being, I'm talking about the thigns that our parents try to teach us as we're children. It's my observation that regardless of what mistakes a parent might make, and they all make them, children often close the divergence in terms of viewpoint as they get older.

    The statement "As I get older I realize that my parents have made mistakes and bad decisions" is not novel or extraordinary nor is it inconsistent with the idea that one can become more in line with my observation.

    Really, if I were to simplify it I would say that it is akin to getting along with them as much as anything else. The things they say and their opinions become less ridiculous as we, their children get older and approahc their perspective.

    "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be rude without having their skulls split, as a general thing."

    -Robert E. Howard
    Tower of the Elephant
  • FallingmanFallingman Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    In my experience - people dont mature until they have to. Where I'm from, its common to do what I did. At 19 - I moved out and went away to Uni. I got a flat with a few mates, we got bills in our name, a lease etc. We had fun, did some pretty stupid things, but we really grew up over our time there.

    Moving to the UK, I've found that it's more common for people to stay at home with Mummy and Daddy longer. Sometimes its due to the price of accomodation, sometimes its a cultural thing... But I know 26 year olds that act like we did when we were 16. These "adults" also cant even cook a meal for themselves and the lack of direct responsibility really shows.

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  • ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS
    edited August 2007
    Werrick wrote: »
    When I was little, my dad new everything. In the past five years, however, I watched him make a mistake I had already made and learned from and follow it up with a second, related mistake that's a lot more difficult, expensive and lawyer-related to correct. In a field he has vastly more experience than myself in, no less.

    He's still really smart and knows a lot of things and excels at problem-solving, but man can he make some bad decisions.

    I'm not really talking about the foibles, inadequacies and failings of parents, that happens to every human being, I'm talking about the thigns that our parents try to teach us as we're children. It's my observation that regardless of what mistakes a parent might make, and they all make them, children often close the divergence in terms of viewpoint as they get older.

    The statement "As I get older I realize that my parents have made mistakes and bad decisions" is not novel or extraordinary nor is it inconsistent with the idea that one can become more in line with my observation.

    Really, if I were to simplify it I would say that it is akin to getting along with them as much as anything else. The things they say and their opinions become less ridiculous as we, their children get older and approahc their perspective.

    What ensures that the perspective I am approaching mirrors theirs? We have some shared or similar values, such as just how far you can trust governments and how to properly care for tools, but the range of fields in which I consider his input to be expert has only narrowed as I've grown older. Seeming more human doesn't equate to seeming smarter, quite the opposite in fact.

    DAMM
    Drunks Against Mad Mothers
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive Damn these electric sex pants! Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    When I was younger, I thought that most teenagers were stupid. Now I'm almost 20, I've come to include myself in that group.

    I accepted that my parents knew best in almost all cases, however, because they were teachers. By the time I grew old enough not to trust everything a teacher says, my parents had proved themselves to me a hundred times over, mostly by seeing what other kids my age were like.

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  • WerrickWerrick Registered User
    edited August 2007
    Werrick wrote: »
    Really, if I were to simplify it I would say that it is akin to getting along with them as much as anything else. The things they say and their opinions become less ridiculous as we, their children get older and approahc their perspective.

    What ensures that the perspective I am approaching mirrors theirs? We have some shared or similar values, such as just how far you can trust governments and how to properly care for tools, but the range of fields in which I consider his input to be expert has only narrowed as I've grown older. Seeming more human doesn't equate to seeming smarter, quite the opposite in fact.

    I don't know what ensures that you're approaching their perspective, or that it even happens beyond my own experience. What I can say is that I get along a lot better with my father as an adult than I ever did as a child at any age. I see the lessons he was trying to teach me as opposed to just being more lecturing.

    My father's a pilot and I also work in aviation. At this point I also have experienced the phenomenon of realzing that the shit that he knows about is limited. But so is the shit that I know about. As a matter of fact, I now have more educatoin that my father does and while there's still some stuff that he "gets" that I don't the fact is that I now know more than he does on a large number of issues.

    I even disagree with much of what he says, for that matter.

    But that doesn't change the fact that even when I disagree with what he says that I can understand how he arrived at that conclusion and in that analysis I can see that the logic that he used is at least sound. The difference is that when I was a boy or a teenager I would have thought he was out of his mind and didn't know what he was talking about, but now I can at least see how he might have arrived at the conclusion and I can talk with him the way I would any other adult as opposed to it simply devolving into a screaming match about.... whatever the issue happens to be.

    The other issue is that I find that while his advice might not always be appropriate for me personally, I still value it very much because oftentimes it is appropriate and it offers a perspective that I don't have. That's always been the case but it's only since I've become an adult that I can see value in that perspective. At the very least the perspective itself is of value even if the advice resultant is not.

    "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be rude without having their skulls split, as a general thing."

    -Robert E. Howard
    Tower of the Elephant
  • zerg rushzerg rush Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    As I get older, I've gained more insight into my parent's weaknesses than I've been impressed with their wisdom. I've been able to casually observe my mom as she is getting back into dating, and I realize that for all her virtues in other areas she's still an insecure, unpredictable little girl when it comes to dating. This same woman went and instilled the fear of god into my school when it seemed like my brother was getting grades marked down due to gender discrimination, but she can't muster up the courage to ask a man out on a date. She's proudly boasts that she's never been a second late to an important appointment or interview in her life, but come date time she'll be anywhere from 15-60 minutes late tussing with her hair.

    Although, I'd mostly attribute my ability to see her as a more human character as a result of my own observation abilities in general. That is to say, I don't think this change in observation is limited to viewing my parents; I'm just better able to relate with everyone in general and get them better. The parents are just the people I've known the longest, so I can get the most meaning out of my newfound powers of observation.
    ...such as just how far you can trust governments...
    As an aside, I love the wording on that. It lets a body know that they think goverments are nothing but gormless thieves without having the unpleasantness of needing to sound it out.

  • ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS
    edited August 2007
    Werrick wrote: »
    What ensures that the perspective I am approaching mirrors theirs? We have some shared or similar values, such as just how far you can trust governments and how to properly care for tools, but the range of fields in which I consider his input to be expert has only narrowed as I've grown older. Seeming more human doesn't equate to seeming smarter, quite the opposite in fact.

    I don't know what ensures that you're approaching their perspective, or that it even happens beyond my own experience. What I can say is that I get along a lot better with my father as an adult than I ever did as a child at any age. I see the lessons he was trying to teach me as opposed to just being more lecturing.

    My father's a pilot and I also work in aviation. At this point I also have experienced the phenomenon of realzing that the shit that he knows about is limited. But so is the shit that I know about. As a matter of fact, I now have more educatoin that my father does and while there's still some stuff that he "gets" that I don't the fact is that I now know more than he does on a large number of issues.

    I even disagree with much of what he says, for that matter.

    But that doesn't change the fact that even when I disagree with what he says that I can understand how he arrived at that conclusion and in that analysis I can see that the logic that he used is at least sound. The difference is that when I was a boy or a teenager I would have thought he was out of his mind and didn't know what he was talking about, but now I can at least see how he might have arrived at the conclusion and I can talk with him the way I would any other adult as opposed to it simply devolving into a screaming match about.... whatever the issue happens to be.

    The other issue is that I find that while his advice might not always be appropriate for me personally, I still value it very much because oftentimes it is appropriate and it offers a perspective that I don't have. That's always been the case but it's only since I've become an adult that I can see value in that perspective. At the very least the perspective itself is of value even if the advice resultant is not.

    So what about the possibility of different starting-points? I thought way more highly of my dad when I was little than I think of anyone non-fictional at this point. It used to be that I'd put him right up there with Batman, but Batman has long since edged him out.

    DAMM
    Drunks Against Mad Mothers
  • WerrickWerrick Registered User
    edited August 2007
    So what about the possibility of different starting-points? I thought way more highly of my dad when I was little than I think of anyone non-fictional at this point. It used to be that I'd put him right up there with Batman, but Batman has long since edged him out.

    It's funny that you mention that. I often refer to my own father as my own personal superhero.

    I'm a huge superhero fanatic. I do buy comics (at 31 years old, God fucking help me), but I'm more fascinated by the ideology and mythology of superheroes than anything else. I've been obsessed with Spider-man since I was 3 and I have superhero paraphenalia strewn all over my apartment.

    And yet my father is greater than all of them.

    Perhaps my observation isn't as universal as I thought.

    "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be rude without having their skulls split, as a general thing."

    -Robert E. Howard
    Tower of the Elephant
  • VariableVariable Weed and Masturbation Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    hmmm. I'm trying to put this short and sweet and make my point.

    my father always seemed smart, and his choices always made sense to me. I think the difference now (I'm 21) as opposed to let's say, 5 years ago, is that I can see a lot of him in the choices I'm making, and I can see my future self in the things he does.

    ... wow he'd probably love to read that.

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  • VariableVariable Weed and Masturbation Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Werrick wrote: »
    So what about the possibility of different starting-points? I thought way more highly of my dad when I was little than I think of anyone non-fictional at this point. It used to be that I'd put him right up there with Batman, but Batman has long since edged him out.

    It's funny that you mention that. I often refer to my own father as my own personal superhero.

    I'm a huge superhero fanatic. I do buy comics (at 31 years old, God fucking help me), but I'm more fascinated by the ideology and mythology of superheroes than anything else. I've been obsessed with Spider-man since I was 3 and I have superhero paraphenalia strewn all over my apartment.

    And yet my father is greater than all of them.

    Perhaps my observation isn't as universal as I thought.

    this is very strange to me.

    then again, my parents were divorced when I was four, which even at that age came across as a major WHAT THE FUCK?!. so it was hard to view them as perfect, let alone superhero-esque from that point on.

    not that I hated them. I was never that kid... but they were always very real to me and with me because it was always one on one.

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  • WerrickWerrick Registered User
    edited August 2007
    Variable wrote: »
    then again, my parents were divorced when I was four, which even at that age came across as a major WHAT THE FUCK?!. so it was hard to view them as perfect, let alone superhero-esque from that point on.

    Maybe that's the difference...

    "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be rude without having their skulls split, as a general thing."

    -Robert E. Howard
    Tower of the Elephant
  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I sort of see my parents as really smart, experienced people who's job it is to help me through life. And they did/do a pretty good job. Though, they piss me right off some of the time.

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  • VariableVariable Weed and Masturbation Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Werrick wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    then again, my parents were divorced when I was four, which even at that age came across as a major WHAT THE FUCK?!. so it was hard to view them as perfect, let alone superhero-esque from that point on.

    Maybe that's the difference...

    yeah, they also remarried when I was 7 or 8 and redivorced when I was 11 or 12.

    I don't try to get all psycho-analytical (is that a word? I don't really know) on myself but I assume a lot of how I feel towards them comes from that.

    I'm certain of it as far as my mother goes, but that's a whole other bag of huge disgusting worms that no one should ever EVER go into.

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  • kaz67kaz67 Registered User
    edited August 2007
    I never thought my father was stupid but at the same time I never idolized him. The two of us have never been close and as I have grown older we have just become more distant. I think its just one of those things where everyone experiences it differently.

  • VariableVariable Weed and Masturbation Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    yes. as nice as the quote is, it really makes sense less as father/parent specific and more as adult related understanding.

    but it also ignores the idea that a fair sum of teenagers (at least a lot who seem to be posting here) actually do respect their elders and what they have to say, not because they are supposed to but because it's logical to listen to people who've done this shit before.

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  • HydroSqueegeeHydroSqueegee ULTRACAT!!!™®© Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    kaz67 wrote: »
    I never thought my father was stupid but at the same time I never idolized him. The two of us have never been close and as I have grown older we have just become more distant. I think its just one of those things where everyone experiences it differently.

    I seem to be in the same boat. Being alone in the same room with him feels awkward.

    zW0NKxe.png
  • AgemAgem Registered User
    edited August 2007
    zerg rush wrote: »
    As I get older, I've gained more insight into my parent's weaknesses than I've been impressed with their wisdom.
    This sums it up for me as well.

  • WerrickWerrick Registered User
    edited August 2007
    kaz67 wrote: »
    I never thought my father was stupid but at the same time I never idolized him. The two of us have never been close and as I have grown older we have just become more distant. I think its just one of those things where everyone experiences it differently.

    This makes me kinda sad.

    "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be rude without having their skulls split, as a general thing."

    -Robert E. Howard
    Tower of the Elephant
  • Vrtra TheoryVrtra Theory Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I have to admit, I have a pretty dim view of my parents. My mother is gigantic and can't be bothered to fix her eating habits or spend any time exercising, primarily because of the huge host of anti-depressive drugs she's on. She's been told over and over by various doctors that she won't make progress unless she gets off the drugs and does some counseling, but she refuses to do so. It's hard for me to feel anything for her except pity or disgust (depending on how sympathetic I am at that moment).

    My father I have a lot more respect for: I mean, he did his best to keep his marriage together for those last few years before the divorce, although even I could see it was hopeless (I was around 19 and out of the house at the time). I even like to hang out with him from time to time: bring him to an Italian restaurant, convince him to try a few beers, etc. But, as far as opinions, beliefs, and overall life decisions go, my father is the poster child for what I'm trying to avoid.

    I think that the big difference between myself at 15 and myself at 25 (my current age) is that when I was 15, he'd say something and I'd think he was just plain stupid, oversensitive and/or blinded by religion - and I'd say so. Now, I can enjoy spending time with him, even though I think he's made some bad choices and believes some silly things.

  • GooeyGooey Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I was a really angry teenager. Hung out with a bunch of losers and hoodlums, got arrested on multiple occasions, etc. I was supremely convinced that both my parents were full of shit and didn't really care what either of them had to say.

    Now that I've grown up, matured, went to college, got a job, and everything else I've come to realize that my parents were spot-on with all the advice they gave me growing up. I'm lucky that somehow, through all of my antics, thier parenting stuck. They were also wise enough to realize that they weren't raising a criminal, just a very confused/angry kid, and not ship me off to boarding/military school.

    Also, I realize now that I wasn't fooling anybody trying to hide the things I did from my parents. I had a conversation with my dad when I was 20 about how I was exactly like him as a kid, and he used to use all the same tricks.

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  • kaz67kaz67 Registered User
    edited August 2007
    Werrick wrote: »
    kaz67 wrote: »
    I never thought my father was stupid but at the same time I never idolized him. The two of us have never been close and as I have grown older we have just become more distant. I think its just one of those things where everyone experiences it differently.

    This makes me kinda sad.

    Can't say it makes me happy but I have more or less come to terms with it. No one gets to choose their parents and things could have been worse.

  • Bliss 101Bliss 101 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I was a really angry teenager too. I was raised by a single mother and there were years when we literally couldn't talk to each other at all without yelling. I saw her basically as an overly strict and dominating, know-it-all bitch who always had to have the last word, and I'd go out of my way to piss her off all the time. We had some pretty legendary fights. One time I actually hurled a large kitchen knife in her general direction, with enough force that it got stuck in the wall (luckily it missed her).

    Later I've realized how hard she tried to be both a mother and a father to me. Over the past ten years (I'm 32 now) I've come to know her as a person and not just "my mom", with all the insecurities and weaknesses she hid so well when I was a kid, and my image of not only her but myself as well has changed totally. I also realize now how hard she worked. She kicked my alcoholic father out when I was two, took two jobs to afford a decent home for us, saved up to pay for my education, built a succesful career and somehow managed to raise me as well. As a result I still feel perpetually guilty about being such a selfish retard as a teenager, but then, I guess all teenagers are retarded.

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  • brandotheninjamasterbrandotheninjamaster Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I have to admit, I have a pretty dim view of my parents. My mother is gigantic and can't be bothered to fix her eating habits or spend any time exercising, primarily because of the huge host of anti-depressive drugs she's on. She's been told over and over by various doctors that she won't make progress unless she gets off the drugs and does some counseling, but she refuses to do so. It's hard for me to feel anything for her except pity or disgust (depending on how sympathetic I am at that moment).

    I wouldn't be so rough on your mom. I'm sure theres a lot of stuff I don't know about but still, the best thing you can do is be there for them. I can speak from experience. I've been through a lot with my Dad. First I found out by accident when I was 16 that he wasn't my biological father and he adopted me (merry Christmas indeed), then when I was 18 and living with him he got encephalitis and it affected his brain. After the short hospital stay he went nuts and and lost his house and became a bipolar alcoholic, and I delt with that until I was about 21. Thing is though no matter how mad I was at him, no matter what he did I was always there. And I'm very appreciative of the relationship we have because I never gave up on him.

  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I'm pulling this from the other thread.
    Werrick wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Werrick wrote: »
    Something happens to most people at certain ages. The old expression, I believe it was Samuel Clemens that said "The older I get the smart my father becomes." or somethign to that effect. I often say that it was remarkable just how smart my dad got when I reached the age of 21. I think that effect is almost universal, or at least it's commonplace.

    I had almost the exact opposite reaction. I loved my dad, respected him, still do, but the older I get, the more I realize that he made some poor fucking choices.

    I find this really interesting.

    At the risk of going off-topic, I would suggest that, prima fascia it might appear that perhaps your experience isn't typical. However, upon closer examination I find myself asking a number of questions. Firstly, have you spoken to your father about those choices?

    No. I didn't start developing a really adult perspective on life until I left home at 19, but my dad died not long after my 17th birthday. I've spoken to my mom about it, but that's not exactly the same thing, obviously.
    Werrick wrote: »
    Did he make standard choices?

    Naw. My dad was an ex-biker and fiercely independent. He was also anti-social and a bit of a hermit. For example, he turned down an electrical engineering job for IBM in Sunnyvale because he felt that the SF Bay Area was a bad place to raise kids because there were too many people. Instead he moved to a farming town in central California, set up a hobby farm, and tried at one point to move to Idaho and take the family with him because as far as he was concerned the further away from other people you are, the better.

    When I was a kid, I didn't judge these choices, I just accepted them. Today, I see my dad as intelligent, but troubled. He obviously had untreated depression and issues of paranoia and social anxiety. Whenever you hear about psych issues and parenting the question of abuse comes up and I wanted to emphasize that that was never an issue. He was a great father... as long as you overlooked some of his quirks.
    Werrick wrote: »
    Were they the best choices at the time from his poitn of view? Would he agree now that they were bad? Assuming you recognize them as bad choices would he also, given your information and perspective, also see them as bad choices?

    That's not a sensical question. Even the most disturbed of schizophrenics have an internal logic to their delusions. If you believe yourself to be a carrot and are consequently deathly afraid of rabbits, then yeah, you're making the best choices from your POV.

    His point of view was that people are stupid and dangerous and that the best conceivable living situation was one as far away from other people and social inter-relationships as possible. He fully believed in the MI-5 "four meals away from anarchy" scenario. Yeah, if you adopt the assumption that human beings are a hair's breadth away from turning into predatory animals, then his choices made sense. Today, I see that POV as being misguided at best and the symptom of a mild mental illness at worst.
    Werrick wrote: »
    Perhaps it's not so much that you find yourself outside the paradigm I described, but in fact well within the range, just simply without realizing it?

    Well, I think most kids grow up only seeing part of their fathers, and often it's the bad part because fathers and mothers play bad cop / good cop a lot of the time. So most people go through a phase where they start to see their parents less as caricatures of themselves and more as multidimensional human beings. I just don't think it's foregone conclusion that the transition is always, or even usually, going to involve frustration giving way to admiration.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • WerrickWerrick Registered User
    edited August 2007
    That's a really interesting perspcetive, Feral.

    "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be rude without having their skulls split, as a general thing."

    -Robert E. Howard
    Tower of the Elephant
  • DagrabbitDagrabbit Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    My dad is pretty much my template for what not to be in life. He was a pretty big failure as a father, and now that my parents are divorced, I don't talk to him much. My mother is also very flawed.

    None of this changes that, as I got older, I gained a lot of sympathy for how hard it is to be a parent. I wouldn't say that I grew to think my parents were wise, but I grew to understand where they were coming from and why they did what they did while raising me.

    As some one else alluded to, that's just a part of growing up. Teenagers are infamous for having poor empathy and a lack of ability (in most cases, not all) to see outside their own limited worldview and their own needs/priorities. As we grow up we (in most cases, not all) gain a broader worldview and better ability to understand where other people are coming from.

    That affects how we see our parents. If they were great parents, we're likely to see them as wise, if they're not, we're likely to see their flaws as a template of what not to do as parents. Most parents are probably in-between, so we take the good and the bad and understand them as people, not just parents.

  • thundercakethundercake Registered User
    edited August 2007
    My father is smart...very smart. He has a fantastic memory, is very articulate, and is extremely educated; he's cultured, successful and well read. But in terms of human emotions, and people, he's clueless. He treats everyone like inferiors and doesn't understand empathy or charity. I never underestimated his intelligence, but I knew instinctively that there was something very wrong with him, and so I never admired him.

    I never had a "my parents are stupid" phase but I did have a nice rebellious streak for a while.

  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I don't know if its just my 17 year old anger but I don't think I'll ever grow to see my parents as those perfect human beings that I hope to become. My father is wise and I try to listen to his advice as much as I can, though he doesn't think I do(he tends to rant, I get bored). However in many ways I see him as a flawed human being. He is a conspiresy guy that tends to make me grown alot. However alot of my beliefs are similer to his just not as extreme and I imagine its not an accident.

    In the end we do fight alot, Its pretty much all we do these days. He seems worried that I don't know how to act around people to say, get a job and such. Plus he likes to tell me what my motives for actions are, its frustrating.

    I think alot of fighting between Parents and teenagers stems from both noticing how similer they are. Teenagers get hostile towards the thing they wish to avoid becoming and Parents asume there kids will do exactly what they would which comes off as a lack of trust.

    Quire.jpg
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    When I went through my rebellious streak, it was directed at my school, not my parents.
    But my high school experience was nightmarish, so that's not terribly strange.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • EmperorSethEmperorSeth Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I don't think my father got any smarter, but I did get more sympathetic to him. Mind you, while certainly not abusing, he always was a bit of a yeller, which these days is mostly directed at traffic while driving. I think a lot of the sympathy comes from the realization at what a fucked-up childhood and early adulthood he had. His father died when he was five, he had an abusive step-father with apparent mob connections, and then he was drafted into 'Nam. He definately did the best he could considering. Believe me, I met the rest of his family.

    That being said, he doesn't really seem smarter. We agree alot politically, but his opinions just seem so...shallow. Just ranting about how much of a crook Bush is doesn't really add any context or make for a fun conversation. He also once got enraged over how the Marilyn Vos Savant/Let's Make a Deal riddle obviously is lying, which doesn't help. But we get along okay, for the most part. He's sort of a proto-geek, himself, so we tend to bond by going to Gen Con every year, and when I lived at home he enjoyed watching me play some video games; usually more cinematic ones like Silent Hill.

    EmperorSeth.png
  • DVGDVG Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    My dad has always had an especially short road from being slightly annoyed to being full of rage. He never hit us or anything, but I wasn't as close to him as I could have been growing up.

    Now adays we get along great. He still gets made easily, but I take it better now than I did then. I've already recently learned many facts about our financial situation when I was a kid that I never knew and it actually makes me a little ashamed of how I acted sometimes.

    As for being pissed at kids for being kids, well that just doesn't make any sense to me. Sure, teenagers are dumb and do dumb things. Their supposed to, they're teenagers. While I hate to bring up a sappy work-email-signature inspirational quote: "Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment."

    Diablo 3 - DVG#1857
  • chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    My parents split up after I had moved out, gotten married and had a kid, so it really didn't affect me a whole lot. What amazed me about the whole deal was that he knew that he wanted to leave my Mom when my brother was born, and he stuck around for 18 years for the the kids. I don't know if that's noble or stupid, perhaps a bit of both, but it really screwed up my brother.

    Since then he has moved out of state and is living with a lesbian who adopted a child from russia. He comes around about once a month, primarily to see my kids. We talk of meaningless things, and he leaves. He also has taken to making fun of me for having wire hangers and going to ballroom dancing competitions. So he is not really getting wiser as I get older, but he is definately getting gayer.

    And I mean that in all seriousness.

    The list never changes: http://www.infinitebacklog.com
    Chamberlain.jpg
  • JohannenJohannen Registered User
    edited August 2007
    I hate pretty much anyone younger than me.

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