Anyone who plays a Cleric that worships a philosophy instead of deity. Just worship power-gaming and quit the intellectual dishonesty.
Lol.
you know
on a level
i actually found this point kind of offensive
it's like he's saying "you can't have a religious philosophy without a deity"
it's actually bigoted, in a way.
It's totally not realistic. I mean, nobody worships philosophies nowadays.
Especially not buddhists.
While the dude is a fucking idiot he has a point on that one. The question "Can I worship a philosophy?" is like 9 times out of 10 actually "Can I have whatever domains I like?"
Well, that's just because most people don't realize that almost any given philosophical system is going to be more rigorous and limited than any given religion...
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INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
While the dude is a fucking idiot he has a point on that one. The question "Can I worship a philosophy?" is like 9 times out of 10 actually "Can I have whatever domains I like?"
Yeah, but it's not cool to punish the masses for the sins of the few.
And besides, krayta is right. Worship a philosophy and you lose a few things.
Pray to... who again? Oh, right. Looks like you're on your own.
Explain your actions? Uh, balance told me to do it...
See, the problem with powergaming isn't the player themselves.
The problem is the DM.
Nothing gets into a game without DM approval. Nothing stays with a party but the DM allows it. No character can be played unless the DM lets it be so.
A powergamey player can be bored out of a game by telling him no. However, a DM who doesn't have the stones to say no to rampant powergaming is a DM who encourages and exacerbates the tendency.
I am an unabashed 4e shill. I'm pretty close to a plant, except I don't get paid by WotC to promote 4e.
But I like 4e, I'm in favor of it, and I actively try to promote it and correct some of the wrong-headed bullshit that is out there.
So naturally, this puts me at odds with whiney anti-4e pissants like shit-head there.
Honestly, if there's one thing 4e will do that is definitively positive, it will cut people like that away from D&D, just like 3rd edition did to some of the assholes of 2nd edition.
While the dude is a fucking idiot he has a point on that one. The question "Can I worship a philosophy?" is like 9 times out of 10 actually "Can I have whatever domains I like?"
Yeah, but it's not cool to punish the masses for the sins of the few.
And besides, krayta is right. Worship a philosophy and you lose a few things.
Pray to... who again? Oh, right. Looks like you're on your own.
Explain your actions? Uh, balance told me to do it...
See, the number of people I would trust to do that properly...well it's pretty small. Most of them realize it'd be more work then just sucking up to a big beard in the sky.
I think it still is... right? Did it change at some point?
We might want to anyway. The rule was there for good reason.
The reason was for the database issues that no longer exist as far as I know. I'd offered to Than to make a new thread and keep it updated. We'll see what he says.
While the dude is a fucking idiot he has a point on that one. The question "Can I worship a philosophy?" is like 9 times out of 10 actually "Can I have whatever domains I like?"
Yeah, but it's not cool to punish the masses for the sins of the few.
And besides, krayta is right. Worship a philosophy and you lose a few things.
Pray to... who again? Oh, right. Looks like you're on your own.
Explain your actions? Uh, balance told me to do it...
See, the number of people I would trust to do that properly...well it's pretty small. Most of them realize it'd be more work then just sucking up to a big beard in the sky.
Obvious conclusion: Clerics with deities are wusses.
I am an unabashed 4e shill. I'm pretty close to a plant, except I don't get paid by WotC to promote 4e.
But I like 4e, I'm in favor of it, and I actively try to promote it and correct some of the wrong-headed bullshit that is out there.
So naturally, this puts me at odds with whiney anti-4e pissants like shit-head there.
Honestly, if there's one thing 4e will do that is definitively positive, it will cut people like that away from D&D, just like 3rd edition did to some of the assholes of 2nd edition.
I always figure that, no matter what, I still have my 3.5 books, so if, for whatever reason I hate 4.0 (which I actually think I am going to love), I can still play 3.5. But, some people just love to whine.
I think it still is... right? Did it change at some point?
We might want to anyway. The rule was there for good reason.
The reason was for the database issues that no longer exist as far as I know. I'd offered to Than to make a new thread and keep it updated. We'll see what he says.
Edit: I post all your base.
I think the reason was so that people coming into the thread would not be intimidated by mega-thread size. It's a wonder i came to post in here... i feel bad posting in a thread that I haven't read the whole way through, and it was up to 40 pages when i started.
I think it still is... right? Did it change at some point?
We might want to anyway. The rule was there for good reason.
The reason was for the database issues that no longer exist as far as I know. I'd offered to Than to make a new thread and keep it updated. We'll see what he says.
Edit: I post all your base.
I think the reason was so that people coming into the thread would not be intimidated by mega-thread size. It's a wonder i came to post in here... i feel bad posting in a thread that I haven't read the whole way through, and it was up to 40 pages when i started.
I think that expectation is a little damped for megathreads like this thing.
I am an unabashed 4e shill. I'm pretty close to a plant, except I don't get paid by WotC to promote 4e.
But I like 4e, I'm in favor of it, and I actively try to promote it and correct some of the wrong-headed bullshit that is out there.
So naturally, this puts me at odds with whiney anti-4e pissants like shit-head there.
Honestly, if there's one thing 4e will do that is definitively positive, it will cut people like that away from D&D, just like 3rd edition did to some of the assholes of 2nd edition.
Actually, in my experience, 3rd edition brought even MORE assholes in because they made the system "less complicated" (although let's be honest, I never had trouble with 2nd edition rules and I always found them to be much less complicated, but that's my personal feeling), and opened everything up, which encouraged powergaming. Multiclassing was something you did for kickass powers, now, where Dual-Classing was restricted to humans only and had some hefty penalties attached. Look at ANY "uber" character build and it's almost certain to be multiclassed somehow. To find a level 20 of one single class with no PrCs is extremely rare now, it seems.
Not UNHEARD OF, so please don't regale me with tales of your advnetures as a level 20 whatever, guys. I'm just saying, it's significantly less common now, if you're not a pure caster.
In my experience, d20 made the game much easier to min/max and powergame with. And that draws in the twink crowd, and the twink crowd is 45% assholes, 4% morons, 50% moronic assholes, and 1% actual roleplayers.
I am an unabashed 4e shill. I'm pretty close to a plant, except I don't get paid by WotC to promote 4e.
But I like 4e, I'm in favor of it, and I actively try to promote it and correct some of the wrong-headed bullshit that is out there.
So naturally, this puts me at odds with whiney anti-4e pissants like shit-head there.
Honestly, if there's one thing 4e will do that is definitively positive, it will cut people like that away from D&D, just like 3rd edition did to some of the assholes of 2nd edition.
Actually, in my experience, 3rd edition brought even MORE assholes in because they made the system "less complicated" (although let's be honest, I never had trouble with 2nd edition rules and I always found them to be much less complicated except for thac0 which was the most horrible rule ever to be concieved, but that's my personal feeling), and opened everything up, which encouraged powergaming. Multiclassing was something you did for kickass powers, now, where Dual-Classing was restricted to humans only and had some hefty penalties attached. Look at ANY "uber" character build and it's almost certain to be multiclassed somehow. To find a level 20 of one single class with no PrCs is extremely rare now, it seems.
Not UNHEARD OF, so please don't regale me with tales of your advnetures as a level 20 whatever, guys. I'm just saying, it's significantly less common now, if you're not a pure caster.
In my experience, d20 made the game much easier to min/max and powergame with. And that draws in the twink crowd, and the twink crowd is 45% assholes, 4% morons, 50% moronic assholes, and 1% actual roleplayers.
In my experience, d20 made the game much easier to min/max and powergame with. And that draws in the twink crowd, and the twink crowd is 45% assholes, 4% morons, 50% moronic assholes, and 1% actual roleplayers.
You forgot the actual roleplayers who play characters that are moronic assholes. :P
Edit: and calculating THAC0 is what separates the men from the animals.
delroland on
EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
Obvious conclusion: Clerics with deities are wusses.
This is the only acceptable druid stance.
my brother was playing a Druid who worshipped nature in a general sense, not any one deity
he tended to actually cop an attitude towards most clerics
especially ones of ascended deities
like st. cuthbert
Bitch, you just worship some fucking dude with a club. I'm a dude with a club, you should worship me!
I've done the same. After traveling with a kick-ass Pelorite for a long time my druid amended his "Gods are for pussies....except for the Sun dude, he's alright."
For starters, all the races had the "Min" taken out of them. No racial stat penalties. All races are inherently more powerful than they used to be.
Also, because ability scores have been changed in how they create modifiers, having a "dump stat" isn't very beneficial.
Additionally, with the new multiclass and power rules, and the new BAB/AC/Defense/Skill progressions, and the lack of small bonuses from magic items, all in all "twinking" is taking a big hit.
Now it's more about playing to your "role" than just getting big numbers.
You're assumption that those who value the tactical aspect of the game can't role play is pretty insulting generalization.
Actually, my assumption is that if you're a twink (defined, by the way, as someone who values the rules and dice rolling more than the RP, and thus "twinks out" their character regardless of character values or personality...), you're probably a terrible RPer almost by defintiion.
If it's still a game, "twinking" won't go anywhere. It's always been the product of the people rather than the system.
I'm not sure how much I buy the argument that 3rd is 'better' to twink in. I find that the general power boost that everything got results in more extreme results.
In my experience, d20 made the game much easier to min/max and powergame with. And that draws in the twink crowd, and the twink crowd is 45% assholes, 4% morons, 50% moronic assholes, and 1% actual roleplayers.
You forgot the actual roleplayers who play characters that are moronic assholes. :P
Edit: and calculating THAC0 is what separates the men from the animals.
People act like it is hard
It's not hard, it's just counter-intuitive.
Here's your thac0! Roll a d20, subtract what you get from this, and that's the armor class you hit! -_-
For starters, all the races had the "Min" taken out of them. No racial stat penalties. All races are inherently more powerful than they used to be.
Also, because ability scores have been changed in how they create modifiers, having a "dump stat" isn't very beneficial.
Additionally, with the new multiclass and power rules, and the new BAB/AC/Defense/Skill progressions, and the lack of small bonuses from magic items, all in all "twinking" is taking a big hit.
Now it's more about playing to your "role" than just getting big numbers.
You're assumption that those who value the tactical aspect of the game can't role play is pretty insulting generalization.
Actually, my assumption is that if you're a twink (defined, by the way, as someone who values the rules and dice rolling more than the RP, and thus "twinks out" their character regardless of character values or personality...), you're probably a terrible RPer almost by defintiion.
Thats not necessarily true, I think. It's just the difference between someone who plays warhammer and D&D and someone who plays D&D and warhammer, i think.
You're assumption that those who value the tactical aspect of the game can't role play is pretty insulting generalization.
Actually, my assumption is that if you're a twink (defined, by the way, as someone who values the rules and dice rolling more than the RP, and thus "twinks out" their character regardless of character values or personality...), you're probably a terrible RPer almost by defintiion.
That doesn't really come through in your previous statements. You sounded like the type of GM who gets pissed at any effective characters. Being incredibly effective and having a complete character are not mutually exclusive.
Though you are a bit of an elitist. Some dudes just want to kick back, bring out the beer and pretzels and kill some monsters.
You're assumption that those who value the tactical aspect of the game can't role play is pretty insulting generalization.
Actually, my assumption is that if you're a twink (defined, by the way, as someone who values the rules and dice rolling more than the RP, and thus "twinks out" their character regardless of character values or personality...), you're probably a terrible RPer almost by defintiion.
Twink = with my spear and magic helmet!
Min/maxxer = sure, it's a 2, but who needs Charisma when you have a Strength of 47?
Not like it matters, but that's how I generally believe them to be defined by the plurality. It doesn't change your point, but I just wanted to throw that out there. You know, for the noobs.
delroland on
EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
You're assumption that those who value the tactical aspect of the game can't role play is pretty insulting generalization.
Actually, my assumption is that if you're a twink (defined, by the way, as someone who values the rules and dice rolling more than the RP, and thus "twinks out" their character regardless of character values or personality...), you're probably a terrible RPer almost by defintiion.
Thats not necessarily true, I think. It's just the difference between someone who plays warhammer and D&D and someone who plays D&D and warhammer, i think.
I'm a White Wolf player, though.
So I'm automatically an elitist bastard emo whiner, y'know?
Posts
While the dude is a fucking idiot he has a point on that one. The question "Can I worship a philosophy?" is like 9 times out of 10 actually "Can I have whatever domains I like?"
It does, however, allow for the worship of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
To rouge? Like, the make up?
He did say from Brick. Maybe he wants to lighten up his coloring.
So who wants to make the new thread?
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
Yeah, but it's not cool to punish the masses for the sins of the few.
And besides, krayta is right. Worship a philosophy and you lose a few things.
Pray to... who again? Oh, right. Looks like you're on your own.
Explain your actions? Uh, balance told me to do it...
I don't think that's the rule anymore. I did ask Than about it earlier today but have gotten no response.
The problem is the DM.
Nothing gets into a game without DM approval. Nothing stays with a party but the DM allows it. No character can be played unless the DM lets it be so.
A powergamey player can be bored out of a game by telling him no. However, a DM who doesn't have the stones to say no to rampant powergaming is a DM who encourages and exacerbates the tendency.
And we all know exacerbation leads to blindness.
But I like 4e, I'm in favor of it, and I actively try to promote it and correct some of the wrong-headed bullshit that is out there.
So naturally, this puts me at odds with whiney anti-4e pissants like shit-head there.
Honestly, if there's one thing 4e will do that is definitively positive, it will cut people like that away from D&D, just like 3rd edition did to some of the assholes of 2nd edition.
I think it still is... right? Did it change at some point?
We might want to anyway. The rule was there for good reason.
See, the number of people I would trust to do that properly...well it's pretty small. Most of them realize it'd be more work then just sucking up to a big beard in the sky.
The reason was for the database issues that no longer exist as far as I know. I'd offered to Than to make a new thread and keep it updated. We'll see what he says.
Edit: I post all your base.
Be proud! We haven't had a legit (i.e. non-Phalla) 100-page thread in a while.
Except for Warhammer.
And those guys are total elitist jerks.
:P
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
Obvious conclusion: Clerics with deities are wusses.
I always figure that, no matter what, I still have my 3.5 books, so if, for whatever reason I hate 4.0 (which I actually think I am going to love), I can still play 3.5. But, some people just love to whine.
Is it sad I still read those threads even though I know I'll never play the game?
This is the only acceptable druid stance.
I think the reason was so that people coming into the thread would not be intimidated by mega-thread size. It's a wonder i came to post in here... i feel bad posting in a thread that I haven't read the whole way through, and it was up to 40 pages when i started.
Not at all. My inner gamer has always had a chubby for Space Marines.
Wait...
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
I think that expectation is a little damped for megathreads like this thing.
Thousand Sons are cool. Though I am not an arts and crafts type of guy so it'll never happen. (Barring me becoming stupid rich.)
You meant sisters of battle, right? Right?!
Actually, in my experience, 3rd edition brought even MORE assholes in because they made the system "less complicated" (although let's be honest, I never had trouble with 2nd edition rules and I always found them to be much less complicated, but that's my personal feeling), and opened everything up, which encouraged powergaming. Multiclassing was something you did for kickass powers, now, where Dual-Classing was restricted to humans only and had some hefty penalties attached. Look at ANY "uber" character build and it's almost certain to be multiclassed somehow. To find a level 20 of one single class with no PrCs is extremely rare now, it seems.
Not UNHEARD OF, so please don't regale me with tales of your advnetures as a level 20 whatever, guys. I'm just saying, it's significantly less common now, if you're not a pure caster.
In my experience, d20 made the game much easier to min/max and powergame with. And that draws in the twink crowd, and the twink crowd is 45% assholes, 4% morons, 50% moronic assholes, and 1% actual roleplayers.
I'm pretty sure that 4e will be no different.
fix'd
You're assumption that those who value the tactical aspect of the game can't role play is pretty insulting generalization.
my brother was playing a Druid who worshipped nature in a general sense, not any one deity
he tended to actually cop an attitude towards most clerics
especially ones of ascended deities
like st. cuthbert
You forgot the actual roleplayers who play characters that are moronic assholes. :P
Edit: and calculating THAC0 is what separates the men from the animals.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
Bitch, you just worship some fucking dude with a club. I'm a dude with a club, you should worship me!
I've done the same. After traveling with a kick-ass Pelorite for a long time my druid amended his "Gods are for pussies....except for the Sun dude, he's alright."
For starters, all the races had the "Min" taken out of them. No racial stat penalties. All races are inherently more powerful than they used to be.
Also, because ability scores have been changed in how they create modifiers, having a "dump stat" isn't very beneficial.
Additionally, with the new multiclass and power rules, and the new BAB/AC/Defense/Skill progressions, and the lack of small bonuses from magic items, all in all "twinking" is taking a big hit.
Now it's more about playing to your "role" than just getting big numbers.
Actually, my assumption is that if you're a twink (defined, by the way, as someone who values the rules and dice rolling more than the RP, and thus "twinks out" their character regardless of character values or personality...), you're probably a terrible RPer almost by defintiion.
I'm not sure how much I buy the argument that 3rd is 'better' to twink in. I find that the general power boost that everything got results in more extreme results.
People act like it is hard
It's not hard, it's just counter-intuitive.
Here's your thac0! Roll a d20, subtract what you get from this, and that's the armor class you hit! -_-
...But by how much?
Thus why I'm hopeful for 4e.
Thats not necessarily true, I think. It's just the difference between someone who plays warhammer and D&D and someone who plays D&D and warhammer, i think.
That doesn't really come through in your previous statements. You sounded like the type of GM who gets pissed at any effective characters. Being incredibly effective and having a complete character are not mutually exclusive.
Though you are a bit of an elitist. Some dudes just want to kick back, bring out the beer and pretzels and kill some monsters.
Twink = with my spear and magic helmet!
Min/maxxer = sure, it's a 2, but who needs Charisma when you have a Strength of 47?
Not like it matters, but that's how I generally believe them to be defined by the plurality. It doesn't change your point, but I just wanted to throw that out there. You know, for the noobs.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
I'm a White Wolf player, though.
So I'm automatically an elitist bastard emo whiner, y'know?