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Hardest High-End Bosses Ever (or How I Learned to Start Cursing and Hate the Raid)

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Posts

  • BikkstahBikkstah Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Pre-Luclin bosses in EQ1

    Bards got macros now

  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2007
    Bikkstah wrote: »
    Pre-Luclin bosses in EQ1

    Bards got macros now

    Good for them. I didn't keep playing that far.

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • citizen059citizen059 Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    My favorite, that gave me the most trouble in Asheron's Call, had to be Gaerlan.

    Gaerlan.jpg

    During the time of the Empyreans, he was Asheron's rival. Upon his return to Dereth, his attempt to rule led to elementals covering the land, driving the regular creatures into hiding and making any trip out of town dangerous for low to mid level players.

    The quest to defeat him within his own Citadel was one of the most epic in AC, as far as I'm concerned.

    From Maggie the Jackcat's quest guide site:
    Spoiler:

  • seabassseabass Doctor MassachusettsRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I think, for its time, frore was the much harder quest in Asheron's Call. It was in before all of the crazy ueber templates were common place. Not only that, but that freaking death jump, where if you hit the opposing wall you took damage the whole way down, and the constant cold damage you had to endure while in there. Just my two cents though.

    Run you pigeons, it's Robert Frost!
  • BarrakkethBarrakketh Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Oh, and bards... A bard spell lasted as long as you actively used it, plus several seconds. A bard in combat went like this:

    Press 1 to turn on song 1.
    Press 1 to turn off song 1.
    Press 2 to turn on song 2.
    Press 2 to turn off song 2.
    Press 3 to turn on song 3.
    Press 3 to turn off song 3.
    Repeat.

    Unless you had Teamspeak or Vent, a bard could not communicate while fighting.

    A friend of mine got carpal tunnel syndrome from playing his bard. He went by the name Mugu Gaipan.

  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2007
    Barrakketh wrote: »
    Oh, and bards... A bard spell lasted as long as you actively used it, plus several seconds. A bard in combat went like this:

    Press 1 to turn on song 1.
    Press 1 to turn off song 1.
    Press 2 to turn on song 2.
    Press 2 to turn off song 2.
    Press 3 to turn on song 3.
    Press 3 to turn off song 3.
    Repeat.

    Unless you had Teamspeak or Vent, a bard could not communicate while fighting.

    A friend of mine got carpal tunnel syndrome from playing his bard. He went by the name Mugu Gaipan.

    That name is made of win.

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • citizen059citizen059 Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    seabass wrote: »
    I think, for its time, frore was the much harder quest in Asheron's Call. It was in before all of the crazy ueber templates were common place. Not only that, but that freaking death jump, where if you hit the opposing wall you took damage the whole way down, and the constant cold damage you had to endure while in there. Just my two cents though.

    You're probably right.

    I didn't get to participate in that one though, until much later when it had been "figured out" and everyone knew the best way to do it. :lol:

    Oh, and on a side note: The re-introduction of the Hoary Mattekar saw me spend over a year hunting them before I got a single hide to drop. That's worse than any end-boss I ever met. O_o

  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    xzzy wrote: »
    Opty wrote: »
    People complain about the 20 minute Kael fight, I can't imagine what hell they'd raise if there was a 4 fucking hour boss.

    It gets worse, when you take into account the mechanics of the game.

    Bosses did so much damage that a tank would die in under three seconds, no questions asked, nothing anyone could do about it. I think the fastest heal in the game took right around 3 seconds to cast, I don't really remember. But the point was there was no way you could safely wait for a tank to take damage before healing. Raids got around this by setting up a specific "heal chain", using a spell that (if I remember right) took 10 seconds to cast. Cleric 1 would start to cast the heal, and at 2 seconds, cleric 2 would start to cast the next heal, so on up to 5 clerics. At 7 seconds the tank would pull, and hopefully he'd keep agro and the healers wouldn't get creamed. These poor clerics did this, and nothing but this, for the entire duration of was probably a 30 to 45 minute fight. The raid would have backup clerics to fill in when one ran out of mana. There was no way to spot heal, there was just nothing in the game that could cast fast enough and heal enough damage.

    It was similarily bad for other people as well. Threat was an all or nothing thing in EQ, if you inched above the tank at any point, the mob would destroy you. All DPS classes (those that had one) got around this by using whatever threat-clearing abilities they had every time the cooldown was up. Rogues got some kind of feint ability, few other classes got feign death, etc. Average cooldown was around 6 seconds.

    Tanks had it bad too. Their only real threat generation was "taunt", on a 6 second cooldown, that if not resisted (you got no message that it was resisted either) bumped you to the top of the threat list, plus a small bonus. That was it.. your melee damage and the taunt button was all you had to hold agro. They improved on this after a while by putting in weapons with threat producing procs, but I guarantee every warrior spent every fight of his career mashing taunt every time the button popped.

    Only people that really had it easy were ranged dps. But even they had problems, resists were a huge problem and for several years, and dots would not stack (which completely fucked the necromancer class, a dot based class). The resist problem was worked around by casting a debuff that reduced resists (forget who casted it.. shaman or enchanters I think). They had to refresh this debuff once a minute or so I think. Shaman would have to spam cast a spell that would slow the boss' attack speed, or else the tank would die, Bards would have to cast 2 or 3 spells on a 6 second rotation or something retarded, and necromancers would have to sacrifice their entire mana pool to transfer mana to a healer.

    Pretty much every boss fight required this level of repetition, and it never got fun. Yet we did it anyways, because seeing bosses dead most definitely was fun.

    Reading this almost made me want to break my fingers. I bet talk of raid burnout on WOW or other MMO forums must make you laugh bitterly.

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • BarrakkethBarrakketh Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Kalkino wrote: »
    Reading this almost made me want to break my fingers. I bet talk of raid burnout on WOW or other MMO forums must make you laugh bitterly.

    Pretty much.

    The spell Clerics used the most was Complete Heal, which has a 10 second casting time. For the longest time it did exactly what the name says it does, but they eventually nerfed to (I think) 10,000 HP. I had a Cleric as an alt, with a Necromancer being my main.

    Monks, Shadow Knights, and Necromancers had an aggro wipe called Feign Death, with Necromancers eventually getting an upgrade called Comatose, and eventually Shadow Knights and Necromancers learned Death Peace.

    Rogues could Feint (I think that was it's name), and Wizards had a Concussion line of spells to reduce their threat. When PoP came out and they could get some pants with a clicky Concussion there was much rejoicing.

    DoT stacking pissed me off in WoW, especially after seeing how fucked it was in EQ for the longest time. There was really no point in bringing more than one Necromancer along with the exception of a much hated spell called Sedulous Subversion, which was a mana dump. While DoT stacking was eventually implemented and good Necromancers could outdamage basically everything (as of the time I quit), prior to that a Necromancer's one and only job was to give his mana to a healer or DPSer. That caused the nickname "Twitch Bitch" to be given to many a Necro, with its origin being the emote that was part of the spell.
    xzzy wrote:
    The resist problem was worked around by casting a debuff that reduced resists (forget who casted it.. shaman or enchanters I think). They had to refresh this debuff once a minute or so I think.

    Both, actually. Shamans had the Malo line of spells, and Enchanters had Tash. An Enchanter was usually assigned to debuff their resists, and whoever was first did a "suicide Tash" because they were usually guaranteed to die.

  • narv107narv107 Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Let's not forget that even groups were a bitch to get together. It wasn't just Tank, Healer, DPS. There was Tank, Healer, Slower, CC, DPS, DPS. You could manage without CC if you had a feign puller like a monk, shadowknight, or necromancer. You could NEVER manage without a healer, tank, and slower.

    The worst part about EQ raiding was the buffing. Before Mass Buff it was hell. 24% of your mana and 8 seconds cast time... per target... per group... for a 72 man raid. Needless to say, wiping took at least an hour to recover from, before you could start reclearing the trash.

  • Venkman90Venkman90 Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    Any fight where randomness WILL cause a wipe is a bad one.

    This includes Vael, Prince, and to a lesser extent, Aran.

    We are currently learning FLK and Poking Al'ar, yet I still go on the odd Kara alt run. Prince can DIAF, that fight just sucks period, if the infernals are random they sure know how to translate random into "eat your face" We had them in a long line following the tank to the ranged, in a circle around the tank, any crappy combination you like.We adapt and rarely wipe these days but its not what I call fun

  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    narv107 wrote: »
    Let's not forget that even groups were a bitch to get together. It wasn't just Tank, Healer, DPS. There was Tank, Healer, Slower, CC, DPS, DPS. You could manage without CC if you had a feign puller like a monk, shadowknight, or necromancer. You could NEVER manage without a healer, tank, and slower.

    The worst part about EQ raiding was the buffing. Before Mass Buff it was hell. 24% of your mana and 8 seconds cast time... per target... per group... for a 72 man raid. Needless to say, wiping took at least an hour to recover from, before you could start reclearing the trash.

    These EQ stories boggle my mind. How the hell did you guys put up with this shit.

    Organichu wrote:
    she's some sort of malevolent creature who bores through this world into the next using hatred and suffering as her fuel
  • ZythonZython Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Venkman90 wrote: »
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    Any fight where randomness WILL cause a wipe is a bad one.

    This includes Vael, Prince, and to a lesser extent, Aran.

    We are currently learning FLK and Poking Al'ar, yet I still go on the odd Kara alt run. Prince can DIAF, that fight just sucks period, if the infernals are random they sure know how to translate random into "eat your face" We had them in a long line following the tank to the ranged, in a circle around the tank, any crappy combination you like.We adapt and rarely wipe these days but its not what I call fun

    Now, I've never done the prince fight, but I've heard alot about it. Would it really kill Blizzard to set it up to make it pseudo-random, so that there's always a way out, but it skill keep the players on their toes?

    3DS Friend Code: 4854-6465-0299 | Wii U: zython
    Steam: pazython
    Lv 90 Tauren Shaman Lv 90 Pandaren Monk
  • DiscoGobboDiscoGobbo Registered User
    edited September 2007
    riz wrote: »
    These EQ stories boggle my mind. How the hell did you guys put up with this shit.

    Easy. Put yourself in the year 2000. You want to play an MMO. Here are your mainstream options:
    1)Asheron's Call
    2)Everquest
    3)Ultima Online

    That it. Three. UO (as I understand) was very PvP-centric back then so if you wanted PvE that was out. It was also not 3-D, if you were a graphics whore all those years ago.

    So you had two choices which could not be more different in play style. If you preferred the Everquest style, you had one choice. So people stuck through the amazing amount of bullshit (by today's standards) in order to experience the game's many positives. There really wasn't any other option if you wanted to play a deep group and raiding PvE game.

    PSN ID : DiscoGobbo.
    Warrior | Mage
  • xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    DiscoGobbo wrote: »
    That it. Three. UO (as I understand) was very PvP-centric back then so if you wanted PvE that was out.

    At the time, EQ was regarded as a vast improvement over UO. It was about as big a leap over UO as WoW was to EQ.

    So no matter how abusive EQ became.. it was still better than the alternatives.

  • Liquid GhostLiquid Ghost oh shit son Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I simply skipped out on MMOs period at that point.

    this is your brain on seven yottabytes of suicidegirls and sixty pounds of pot
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Yeah, I stuck to consoles mainly then, but that wasn't just because MMOs looked like crap. It was mainly because I was still in college and consoles/lan games were easier to set up for me and my friends - then WOW came out pretty much a month or two after I graduated and started earning good money, then with work, i found online gaming easier than getting friends around to console

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • Venkman90Venkman90 Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Zython wrote: »
    Venkman90 wrote: »
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    Any fight where randomness WILL cause a wipe is a bad one.

    This includes Vael, Prince, and to a lesser extent, Aran.

    We are currently learning FLK and Poking Al'ar, yet I still go on the odd Kara alt run. Prince can DIAF, that fight just sucks period, if the infernals are random they sure know how to translate random into "eat your face" We had them in a long line following the tank to the ranged, in a circle around the tank, any crappy combination you like.We adapt and rarely wipe these days but its not what I call fun

    Now, I've never done the prince fight, but I've heard alot about it. Would it really kill Blizzard to set it up to make it pseudo-random, so that there's always a way out, but it skill keep the players on their toes?

    Prince has an ability called Enfeeble, where he randomly cuts a few guys HP to 1 and you can't be healed, he then casts an AOE spell and mele have to run out of range...I was running out at 1hp when an Infernal landed on my face...

    They have programmed them to land on Rogues with 1hp!

    But no, they wont change it as it is possible to luck out, if your DPS is good you wont get too many.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Prince is more luck-based than other boss fights, but it's not as bad as people say. It's not like the infernals just magically appear; you can see them fly in, and you have a second or two to move after they land.

    Unlucky infernal drops can kill you, as well, but they're really rare. If you wait until you are in a corner and surrounded to try and move, and then get one right on top of you, that's not bad luck. That's the game telling you to be more proactive.

    You can get unlucky in phase 2, as well, but that really just means your tank/healers are a big undergeared.

    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    remember pluto? Once a planet but now a pseudo
    funny how information changes the facts that you know
  • JunpeiJunpei Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Mother Shahraz

    It's not nerfed yet, and it will be on next patch (ohlol). Currently, what happens is that Mother randomly selects 3 people from your raid (sometimes 1 or 2, but usually 3), teleports them to anywhere in the room and puts a debuff on them that causes them to deal 3000 damage per second to everyone around them. The damage starts from the very second they get ported. This leads to fun stuff like .... all 3 landing on the tanks, or landing on the healer groups, or being ported into the middle of a couch so they can't move.

    This isn't even worrying about the MT being oneshotted because he just took 28k Shadow damage.

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  • focused7focused7 Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    You can get unlucky in phase 2, as well, but that really just means your tank/healers are a big undergeared.

    I have to disagree. I once took 14k damage in less then a second through 33k armor. Not much you can do to heal through/mitigate that. Sometimes he just gets an unlucky thrash/crush string.

  • RaakamRaakam Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I think part of the reason we were fine with EQ being as painful as it was was because a big chunk of its players had been MUD players. In fact, EQ was touted as being a graphical MUD long before the term MMO showed up. If you've ever played a MUD, then EQ was exactly what you expected. It took forever to level, death penalty being huge was normal, exp penalties based on race/skills were normal, the possibility of losing all your gear permanently was also normal.

    While the game sounds horrible and harsh nowadays, it had some amazing moments. I remember doing Lady Vox and Nagafen, the ice and fire dragon respectively, in full bronze armor dual wielding SSoYs thinking I was the shit. Camping that FBSS took forever too. It's almost the equivalent of doing Molten Core in something worse than your tier 0 set. When you entered the first raid zones (Plane of Hate and Plane of Fear) and fought epic battles to face the Gods of the world, it was astounding. Sure, you lost 3 levels in the process, it took 6 to 8 hours of buggy pathing, falling through the world and randomly getting Death Touched, but it was AWESOME! I don't know how my kidneys survived all those cans of coke and code-red mountain dew.

    I don't know that WoW really captured that feeling - it was fun doing BWL when it came out, killing Chromaggus was a huge rush, but that's about it. MC was a shit fest, I didn't like AQ, and never did much in Naxx. Maybe it has to do with the fact that pulling isn't nearly as technical as it was in EQ, or maybe the risk v reward isn't really there. I can't put my finger on it.

    sigpicf.jpg
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    the maulgar pull is fun

    sc.jpgsc.jpg
  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Raakam wrote: »
    I don't know that WoW really captured that feeling - it was fun doing BWL when it came out, killing Chromaggus was a huge rush, but that's about it. MC was a shit fest, I didn't like AQ, and never did much in Naxx. Maybe it has to do with the fact that pulling isn't nearly as technical as it was in EQ, or maybe the risk v reward isn't really there. I can't put my finger on it.

    As with WoW in general, I think a lot of times it's the people you're with that make things feel epic or not. When we first killed Chromag and took our first look at Nef's room, we all turned run to walk and RP walked as a group all the way to Nef's room, and took the obligatory throne screenshots, and then the GM read the quest text out loud on Vent as he started it for our first wipe. It sounds kind of silly but man it was fucking glorious.


    And heheh Maulgar. We wiped on that pull last week. New mage tank, but still.

    Organichu wrote:
    she's some sort of malevolent creature who bores through this world into the next using hatred and suffering as her fuel
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    The white rabbit. AC players know what I'm talking about.

    "Oh heh, they threw in another joke mob. Let's one-shot it so we can say we killed the white rabbit."
    *twang*
    "..its not dead. Arg %~@%t Mainfg" *DEAD*

    The best part is the thing would attack you if you looked at it funny. WoW players- remember the color codes for mobs? AC doesn't have that. Instead, you have a skill that lets you see the mob's level.

    If you tried that on the White Rabbit it would insta-kill you.

  • TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Oh god.

    Ranarok's notorious monsters were the best thing.

    "Oh hey look I'm level 10 killin some poorings HOLY SHIT that one has wings it must be awesome lemme go: DEAD :"

    Basically they would stick superpowerful boss monsters with pretty fucking huge aggro ranges in horribly innappropriate areas.

    But I have to admit Doppleganger was pretty much the best idea ever.

  • chadwickvmchadwickvm Registered User new member
    Okay, so it's a 6 year old thread, so what. I ran across this and had to put in my 2cp. As an ex-Everquester, I think the most difficult rading scenario ever done was this, http://www.tesuji.org/old_news/kerafyrm_the_sleeper_re-revisited.html , the killing of Kerafyrm; mostly because it wasn't supposed to be doable. The real rub is when you read what Sony did on attempt one of the guilds involved.

  • TubeTube Says some shit Administrator, ClubPA admin
    yeah you really didn't have to put in your 2cp

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This discussion has been closed.