As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
Options

Is there anything we can't sugarcoat?

2

Posts

  • Options
    SalSal Damnedest Little Fellow Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Shinto wrote: »
    titmouse wrote: »
    A retarded man who is crying and promising a broken egg that it will be a chicken someday. And that they will play together in a field when it gets better.

    . . .

    What is that from. It sounds so familiar.

    That would be Achewood.

    I'm not sure the fact that say, Bugs Bunny sugarcoats murder is that meaningful unless people can't tell the difference between cartoon violence and the real thing.

    Sal on
    xet8c.gif


  • Options
    emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Clubbing baby seals - I had to think on this one but you could do it if you replaced the moles in Whack-a-Mole with seals. See kids? Clubbing seals is fun!

    emnmnme on
  • Options
    BrokenAngelBrokenAngel Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    redx wrote: »
    and that deal with 'totally not betty boop' done by comedy central. Bunch of cartoon characters live in a house. Forget the name, but one of the running gags was that she cut herself.

    I think thats Drawn Together, and that show all on it's own sugarcoats innumerable amounts of things.

    BrokenAngel on
    k9mk2carn.pngeleventhdoc2carn.png *Proud Head Girl of Slytherin & Team Red*
  • Options
    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Clubbing baby seals - I had to think on this one but you could do it if you replaced the moles in Whack-a-Mole with seals. See kids? Clubbing seals is fun!

    There was a Farside comic involving baby seals getting clubbed.

    Couscous on
  • Options
    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    redx wrote: »
    and that deal with 'totally not betty boop' done by comedy central. Bunch of cartoon characters live in a house. Forget the name, but one of the running gags was that she cut herself.

    I think thats Drawn Together, and that show all on it's own sugarcoats innumerable amounts of things.

    yes. that's the one.

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • Options
    IreneDAdlerIreneDAdler Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    redx wrote: »
    and that deal with 'totally not betty boop' done by comedy central. Bunch of cartoon characters live in a house. Forget the name, but one of the running gags was that she cut herself.

    I think thats Drawn Together, and that show all on it's own sugarcoats innumerable amounts of things.

    I think it's more accurate to say "satirize" than "sugarcoat." That show is obviously too crass for kids, and they're pretty stridently not concerned with sensibilities. I mean that in the best way possible. It's actually refreshing to see a show that is so unapologetically offensive.

    Re: Oompa loompas. Even if they weren't slaves, they were still being used as test subjects for new candy. I mean NINETEEN innocent oompa loompas got turned into blueberries! Does the fact that they were paid in chocolate make up for that?

    IreneDAdler on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    BrokenAngelBrokenAngel Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I think it's more accurate to say "satirize" than "sugarcoat." That show is obviously too crass for kids, and they're pretty stridently not concerned with sensibilities. I mean that in the best way possible. It's actually refreshing to see a show that is so unapologetically offensive.

    I agree, it's far more satire than sugarcoating, but it does still have that "I feel bad for laughing at something this horrible" quality to it. And I adore Drawn Together for just that reason.

    BrokenAngel on
    k9mk2carn.pngeleventhdoc2carn.png *Proud Head Girl of Slytherin & Team Red*
  • Options
    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    right, but is satirizes people with mental issues, trivializing the damage done by their actions.

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • Options
    The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2007
    "sugarcost" is totally the wrong word for this phenomenon. Sugarcoating is like, telling a kid grampa just fell asleep instead of dying.

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
  • Options
    BrokenAngelBrokenAngel Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    redx wrote: »
    right, but is satirizes people with mental issues, trivializing the damage done by their actions.

    I must have missed that episode, I don't remember one making fun of mentally handicapped people. Then again I haven't seen all that much of the show, but what I did see was rather amusing.

    BrokenAngel on
    k9mk2carn.pngeleventhdoc2carn.png *Proud Head Girl of Slytherin & Team Red*
  • Options
    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    redx wrote: »
    right, but is satirizes people with mental issues, trivializing the damage done by their actions.

    I must have missed that episode, I don't remember one making fun of mentally handicapped people. Then again I haven't seen all that much of the show, but what I did see was rather amusing.


    mental issues as in serious emotional damage and psychological issues.

    not the short bus brigade.

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • Options
    IreneDAdlerIreneDAdler Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    redx wrote: »
    right, but is satirizes people with mental issues, trivializing the damage done by their actions.

    ...

    I don't think I get your drift. Are you saying the proper way to depict people with mental issues in media is to show how they need to be locked up in a padded cell because they are destructive forces?

    Anyway, I think you are again reading too much into the show. It's purely absurdist comedy done strictly for cheap laughs. It's not trying to promote any values. It doesn't HAVE any values. If you have a problem with that, that's fine, chacun a son gout. But you begin to approach the realm of unreasonability if you assert that the show is trying to promote certain degenerate messages, because the show has no message whatsoever.

    @ BrokenAngel -- I think the episode redx is referring to is the one with Clara's retarded sister. And it's not even the most offensive one. I think the one where Clara gets Foxxy to teach her to pole dance so that she can get her father's love because the man loves him some strippers is far far worse.

    edit: Or not.

    IreneDAdler on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    not really talking about a specific episode so much as every single scene with Toot Braunstein(had to look that up).

    Mention it in regard to the comment about not being able to sugar coat self harm. By mocking folks with emotional issues and using stuff like self mutilation as a punch line, it makes those sort of actions seem... something... not like, more acceptable. Like something that should be ridiculed rather than a serious sign someone is a risk to themself and others? ehh... something like that anyway.

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • Options
    ZythonZython Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Pocahontas.

    Are you talking about the Dinsey movie? Because if so, that wasn't sugar coating, just plain stupid.

    Zython on
    Switch: SW-3245-5421-8042 | 3DS Friend Code: 4854-6465-0299 | PSN: Zaithon
    Steam: pazython
  • Options
    emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Zython wrote: »
    Pocahontas.

    Are you talking about the Dinsey movie? Because if so, that wasn't sugar coating, just plain stupid.

    Maybe Mulan, what with the Mongols fighting the Imperial army, but that's a stretch. The Mongols didn't settle in China like the Europeans settled in America; Mulan had the invading forces and battles but not the culture clash, if I remember right.

    The Little Mermaid had a theme of seduction, didn't it? The Ariel girl had to kiss the guy to win the bet and even had her Jamaican crab friend create mood music about getting to second base.

    emnmnme on
  • Options
    BrokenAngelBrokenAngel Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    redx wrote: »
    not really talking about a specific episode so much as every single scene with Toot Braunstein(had to look that up).

    Mention it in regard to the comment about not being able to sugar coat self harm. By mocking folks with emotional issues and using stuff like self mutilation as a punch line, it makes those sort of actions seem... something... not like, more acceptable. Like something that should be ridiculed rather than a serious sign someone is a risk to themself and others? ehh... something like that anyway.

    Self mutilation is made fun of VERY frequently nowadays, with the "emo kid" trend starting a huge amount of cutting jokes. As I said I haven't seen too much of the show, but what I have seen of it has never seemed to go much into Toots cutting herself. A few very short glimpses with no real "joke" to it at most.

    BrokenAngel on
    k9mk2carn.pngeleventhdoc2carn.png *Proud Head Girl of Slytherin & Team Red*
  • Options
    DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Two things come to mind (I haven't read through the thread)

    The POW getting shot in the head in korea or Vietnam (Im mad that I can't remember which)

    The school kid getting run over by the tank in China

    Pretty hard to sugarcoat that shit

    Doodmann on
    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
  • Options
    IreneDAdlerIreneDAdler Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    redx wrote: »
    not really talking about a specific episode so much as every single scene with Toot Braunstein(had to look that up).

    Mention it in regard to the comment about not being able to sugar coat self harm. By mocking folks with emotional issues and using stuff like self mutilation as a punch line, it makes those sort of actions seem... something... not like, more acceptable. Like something that should be ridiculed rather than a serious sign someone is a risk to themself and others? ehh... something like that anyway.

    Yeah, your argument sounds similar to the whole "[insert offensive show here] makes people think it's ok to do bad things" line held so staunchly by a lot of conservative people. And I guess it might be a valid argument for kids shows or something, but these shows are directly marketed to adults, who aren't so impressionable and (for the most part) have an ounce of common sense. I mean, if you're over 22 and see a joke about cutting, are you going to think that cutting is a subject that should taken lightly? Or if you see the episode where Captain Hero takes advantage of Clara's retarded sister, are you going to start cruising for mentally handicapped women because they're easier to get into bed?

    There's a difference between being disrespectful and being able to see humor in serious or weird situations. And, well, humor is also a funny thing (no pun intended). When Rosie O'Donnell made that "You know, in China, people are going, 'Ching chong, ching chong ching'" comment, I wanted to slap her for being a dumb bitch. But that clip of Steven Colbert asking for tea and then going "come in my rickshaw and I take you to Bangkok" was just comedy gold. Anyway, different people, different senses of humor, and some people might have thought O'Donnell was hilarious, and some others probably found the Colbert clip offensive. Chacun a son gout. My point is, I think it's fairly easy for mature adults to detect malicious intent, and we should exercise that, in addition to common sense, when we judge whether or not something is truly offensive and deserving reprimand.

    IreneDAdler on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    IreneDAdlerIreneDAdler Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Zython wrote: »
    Pocahontas.

    Are you talking about the Dinsey movie? Because if so, that wasn't sugar coating, just plain stupid.

    Maybe Mulan, what with the Mongols fighting the Imperial army, but that's a stretch. The Mongols didn't settle in China like the Europeans settled in America; Mulan had the invading forces and battles but not the culture clash, if I remember right.

    The Little Mermaid had a theme of seduction, didn't it? The Ariel girl had to kiss the guy to win the bet and even had her Jamaican crab friend create mood music about getting to second base.

    It's not seduction, he wanted it, he just didn't know it. No, seriously, he was pining for Ariel all this time but was too fucktarded to realize who she was.

    IreneDAdler on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Two things come to mind (I haven't read through the thread)

    The POW getting shot in the head in korea or Vietnam (Im mad that I can't remember which)

    The school kid getting run over by the tank in China

    Pretty hard to sugarcoat that shit

    Vietnam. And I'm stumped. I can't think up any examples that would help explain those two events to kids.

    emnmnme on
  • Options
    BrokenAngelBrokenAngel Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Zython wrote: »
    Pocahontas.

    Are you talking about the Dinsey movie? Because if so, that wasn't sugar coating, just plain stupid.

    Maybe Mulan, what with the Mongols fighting the Imperial army, but that's a stretch. The Mongols didn't settle in China like the Europeans settled in America; Mulan had the invading forces and battles but not the culture clash, if I remember right.

    The Little Mermaid had a theme of seduction, didn't it? The Ariel girl had to kiss the guy to win the bet and even had her Jamaican crab friend create mood music about getting to second base.

    It's not seduction, he wanted it, he just didn't know it. No, seriously, he was pining for Ariel all this time but was too fucktarded to realize who she was.

    Actually that movie was incredibly "sugarcoated".

    In the original fairy tale...
    the Prince marries another girl who he fell in love with, and the little mermaid commits suicide.

    BrokenAngel on
    k9mk2carn.pngeleventhdoc2carn.png *Proud Head Girl of Slytherin & Team Red*
  • Options
    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Two things come to mind (I haven't read through the thread)

    The POW getting shot in the head in korea or Vietnam (Im mad that I can't remember which)

    Vam' IIRC.

    Is explaining that summery executions for spies isn't out of the norm, and that un-uniformed officers behind enemy lines during combat are considered spies, sugar coating?

    It's certainly and attempt to at least justify it somewhat.

    I thought it was more 'turns into seafoam' than suicide. It's been a while since I read it. Also the whole process of turning into a person and walking about with uncalloused feet was rather grim, :p, in the text.

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • Options
    IreneDAdlerIreneDAdler Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Actually that movie was incredibly "sugarcoated".

    In the original fairy tale...
    the Prince marries another girl who he fell in love with, and the little mermaid commits suicide.

    Yeah yeah, I know. Disney is pretty infamous for sugarcoating. I mean, Hunchback of Notre fucking Dame? Also, Hercules?
    But Eric still totally wanted it
    redx wrote: »
    I thought it was more 'turns into seafoam' than suicide. It's been a while since I read it. Also the whole process of turning into a person and walking about with uncalloused feet was rather grim, :p, in the text.
    In the version I read, it was every step would feel like walking on a knife's edge. And yeah, she dissolved into seafoam, but the way it's told, you get the sense that she knew what was going to happen and she purposefully ended her own life. And why are we spoilering hundred-year-old fairy tales? Here's a spoiler, King Kong dies.

    IreneDAdler on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Honestly, anything by Disney is by definition a Sugarcoat.

    Fencingsax on
  • Options
    CasketCasket __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2007
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Two things come to mind (I haven't read through the thread)

    The POW getting shot in the head in korea or Vietnam (Im mad that I can't remember which)

    The school kid getting run over by the tank in China

    Pretty hard to sugarcoat that shit


    The POW being shot in the head wasn't necessarily a bad thing. Considering the guy was actually a fucking Vietcong who killed entire families just hours earlier. The general who shot him was a pretty good dude, I read up on him and watched the video. He just walks up to him and kills the guy quickly and calmly, barely even stops to aim. The picture that was taken makes it look so much more dramatic, but really the guy is already dead by the time the photographer snapped the picture. You can see the bullet coming out of his head if you look closely.


    And I don't think a school kid got run over in China... are you talking about the guy who stopped the tanks in Tiananmen square? Pretty sure he was pulled away.

    Casket on
    casketiisigih1.png
  • Options
    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Summary execution is a war crime. The Tiananman Square dude didn't get run over, the tank backed down. Then he was carried off by some guys with bikes and likely got tortured until death.

    How do you sugarcoat a crying clown?

    moniker on
  • Options
    gtrmpgtrmp Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Genocide.

    Dungeons & Dragons.

    Orcs are "humanoids" who are inherently, objectively Evil, both on an individual and societal level. Your goal, as a hero who is objectively Good, is to systematically exterminate them in as efficient a manner as possible, all the while looting their possessions and obliterating their equally Evil religious iconography. Don't bother with burying them; just leave the bodies where they fall and move on to the next peasant village... er, I mean, dungeon.

    gtrmp on
  • Options
    electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    gtrmp wrote: »
    Genocide.

    Dungeons & Dragons.

    Orcs are "humanoids" who are inherently, objectively Evil, both on an individual and societal level. Your goal, as a hero who is objectively Good, is to systematically exterminate them in as efficient a manner as possible, all the while looting their possessions and obliterating their equally Evil religious iconography. Don't bother with burying them; just leave the bodies where they fall and move on to the next peasant village... er, I mean, dungeon.
    To be fair this is really just expressing our fundamental desire to just for once have an enemy who really does deserve to die. Hence why it's a fantasy world.

    And hell even then, people have realized that maybe the Orcs should have a society and culture etc.

    electricitylikesme on
  • Options
    DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    moniker wrote: »
    Summary execution is a war crime. The Tiananman Square dude didn't get run over, the tank backed down. Then he was carried off by some guys with bikes and likely got tortured until death.

    How do you sugarcoat a crying clown?

    Guess I need to review my history a bit more.

    Fuck clowns.

    Doodmann on
    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
  • Options
    ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I didn't think anyone knew what happened to Tank Man afterwards.

    I did recently read something about a show or something, somewhere, parodying the Tienanmen Square moment though. Now it's bugging me.

    Æthelred on
    pokes: 1505 8032 8399
  • Options
    NerdgasmicNerdgasmic __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2007
    Can you sugarcoat pedophilia?

    No one has yet to mention this, right?

    Nerdgasmic on
  • Options
    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Nerdgasmic wrote: »
    Can you sugarcoat pedophilia?

    No one has yet to mention this, right?

    Japan

    Incenjucar on
  • Options
    Anonymous RobotAnonymous Robot Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Nerdgasmic wrote: »
    Can you sugarcoat pedophilia?

    No one has yet to mention this, right?

    Japan

    Edit: Incenj dammit how did I not see that

    Anonymous Robot on
    Sigs shouldn't be higher than 80 pixels - Elki.

    photo02-film.jpg
  • Options
    NerdgasmicNerdgasmic __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2007
    Oh. Of course.

    Racism?

    Nerdgasmic on
  • Options
    IreneDAdlerIreneDAdler Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Nerdgasmic wrote: »
    Can you sugarcoat pedophilia?

    No one has yet to mention this, right?

    Well... I think the definition of pedophilia may be different across cultures. Not to be cliche, but it does seem more acceptable in Japan to view younger teenage girls as sexually attractive. In the anime series Mai Otome, there's an adult male (mid 20s, I think) who falls in love with a... 14 or 15 year old girl. It's just one of the subplots, but you could say that was sugarcoating pedophilia under American standards, because they don't make a huge deal about the age difference, but instead focus on the emotions of the characters so it's more about love and less about wanting young girls.

    IreneDAdler on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    NerdgasmicNerdgasmic __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2007
    Is the Gollywog an example of sugarcoating racism?

    Nerdgasmic on
  • Options
    tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    To sugarcoat the Tiananmen square thing is ludicrously easy, and is routinely done. All you do is just show the student standing up to the tank, with the driver unsure of what to do and the whole chinese military machine unable to advance because this one kid believes in democracy and freedom so much. Its glorious, its heroic, you want to be that guy.

    We see this part of the scene so much that people don't even really know that he most likely got taken away and killed, alongside 1000s of other people (well, between hundreds and thousands) and that his whole brave stance was absolutely futile.

    Tiananmen square is easily one of the examples of the most sugarcoated events in human history.

    tbloxham on
    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • Options
    electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Nerdgasmic wrote: »
    Is the Gollywog an example of sugarcoating racism?
    Yes.

    electricitylikesme on
  • Options
    JinniganJinnigan Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    tbloxham wrote: »
    To sugarcoat the Tiananmen square thing is ludicrously easy, and is routinely done. All you do is just show the student standing up to the tank, with the driver unsure of what to do and the whole chinese military machine unable to advance because this one kid believes in democracy and freedom so much. Its glorious, its heroic, you want to be that guy.

    We see this part of the scene so much that people don't even really know that he most likely got taken away and killed, alongside 1000s of other people (well, between hundreds and thousands) and that his whole brave stance was absolutely futile.

    Tiananmen square is easily one of the examples of the most sugarcoated events in human history.

    There is, I think, a difference between "sugarcoating" and "romanticizing."

    Jinnigan on
    whatifihadnofriendsshortenedsiggy2.jpg
  • Options
    electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Jinnigan wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    To sugarcoat the Tiananmen square thing is ludicrously easy, and is routinely done. All you do is just show the student standing up to the tank, with the driver unsure of what to do and the whole chinese military machine unable to advance because this one kid believes in democracy and freedom so much. Its glorious, its heroic, you want to be that guy.

    We see this part of the scene so much that people don't even really know that he most likely got taken away and killed, alongside 1000s of other people (well, between hundreds and thousands) and that his whole brave stance was absolutely futile.

    Tiananmen square is easily one of the examples of the most sugarcoated events in human history.

    There is, I think, a difference between "sugarcoating" and "romanticizing."
    I don't know - less then you're implying I would say. In one version "oh man how heroic", in the other version "he was dealt with by the Chinese authorities later obviously".

    electricitylikesme on
Sign In or Register to comment.