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2k games says everyone in family should buy Bioshock.

PhanmanPhanman Registered User
edited September 2007 in Games and Technology
From kotaku.com
On the 2K boards, one community member found that when his brother attempted to play Bioshock on another account (on the same PC), the software prompted him for a serial number. He asked (ok, whined a bit) as to whether or not this serial would count toward another of his 5 activations.


"2k Tech JT writes: The other way to view this, is one USER has purchased the game. Not the whole family. So why should your brother play for free?"



I really wanted to buy Bioshock on my PC, but with 2k limiting me to 5 installations for a game I legally purchased. I don't think I want to support such tactics. So I'm now refusing to purchase this game.

What do you guys think about 2k games and their tactics?

Phanman on
Wii Code: 6596 9931 4190 2980
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Posts

  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    5 installations seems like more than enough for the vast majority of households, which I think is all they need to support. They have no obligation to cover your siblings who now live away from home etc.

    rodq.jpg
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Well it's true if you think about it. If I buy a game and then hand off the install CD to other people (including CD-Keys) that prevents 2k from getting another sale.

    Also, to my understanding, if you uninstall it off a computer and install it on another 5 times... You can call the number that prompts and then you'll be able to explain and get your keys back.

  • ZephyrZephyr Registered User
    edited September 2007
    5 installations is more than enough

    still a little lame though

    16kakxt.jpg
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    it is entirely legal for you to buy the game, complete it, then return it saying that 2k are in breach or the license agreement, I intend to do this at some point.

  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Phanman wrote: »
    "2k Tech JT writes: The other way to view this, is one USER has purchased the game. Not the whole family. So why should your brother play for free?"

    Haha, thats just getting greedy.

    I'm letting all my friends play my copy of Bioshock that I payed for. What are they gonna do about it?

    1208768734831.jpg
  • ZxerolZxerol The fullest, most luscious beard. Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I think that the full article should be posted:
    On the 2K boards, one community member found that when his brother attempted to play Bioshock on another account (on the same PC), the software prompted him for a serial number. He asked (ok, whined a bit) as to whether or not this serial would count toward another of his 5 activations.

    Although, this probably could be put in the Bioshock thread.

  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    LewieP wrote: »
    it is entirely legal for you to buy the game, complete it, then return it saying that 2k are in breach or the license agreement, I intend to do this at some point.

    don't most license agreements basically have a " Fuck you we can change the rules in the middle of the game if we want too" clause?

    STEAM
    Spoiler:
  • capable heartcapable heart Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Is it five installations total, EVER? Or is it five simultaneous installations, like if you uninstall the game off of one computer it frees up one of the five "slots"?

  • ScosglenScosglen Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    It would be one thing if Bioshock only let one box have an active serial at a time, but this isn't really an issue when you can have up to 5 computers with Bioshock active at once. They're almost supporting intra-family piracy. The brother uninstalls when he's done and that instance of the key is restored. What's the big deal?

  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Zxerol wrote: »
    I think that the full article should be posted:
    On the 2K boards, one community member found that when his brother attempted to play Bioshock on another account (on the same PC), the software prompted him for a serial number. He asked (ok, whined a bit) as to whether or not this serial would count toward another of his 5 activations.

    Although, this probably could be put in the Bioshock thread.

    I think it's threadworthy on it's own, it's about the contract between publishers and consumers.

  • PataPata Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Scosglen wrote: »
    It would be one thing if Bioshock only let one box have an active serial at a time, but this isn't really an issue when you can have up to 5 computers with Bioshock active at once. They're almost supporting intra-family piracy. The brother uninstalls when he's done and that instance of the key is restored. What's the big deal?

    Actually no.

    Nothing will restore that use of the key.

    Spoiler:
  • darleysamdarleysam Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    i say DAMN THE MAN, this stuff should be free.

  • PhanmanPhanman Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Well think about it like this. What if Paramount Pictures only allowed you to watch your movie on DVD five times, and they counted other people in the room watching it with you as one of your viewings. I think you might be upset.

    I'm all for them trying to protect their product from piracy, but not to such extremes that legal owners of the game get the shaft. I shouldn't have to explain myself to some call service rep. about how I had computer problems and need to install the game more than 5 times. There are much better ways to handle this that don't screw over paying customers.

    Wii Code: 6596 9931 4190 2980
  • Burning OrganBurning Organ Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I don't see it either... It doesn't matter much for the paying community, and it doesn't matter at all for the piracy community...
    Soo... What is the point of this?

  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    darleysam wrote: »
    I say DAMN THE MAN, this stuff should be free.

    Yeah, when you were a kid, and your friends wanted to play on your nintendo, you told them to fuck off and buy their own, mirite?

    1208768734831.jpg
  • ScosglenScosglen Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Pata wrote: »
    Scosglen wrote: »
    It would be one thing if Bioshock only let one box have an active serial at a time, but this isn't really an issue when you can have up to 5 computers with Bioshock active at once. They're almost supporting intra-family piracy. The brother uninstalls when he's done and that instance of the key is restored. What's the big deal?

    Actually no.

    Nothing will restore that use of the key.

    I am almost positive that I've read the DRM software will unregister the key when the program is uninstalled.

    edit: I was half right. From The Cult of Rapture FAQ

    "Also, we have in the works a revoke tool which you will be able to run on your machine if you want to free up that key and move it to to another computer (this works very much like Steam or iTunes system)

  • ZephyrZephyr Registered User
    edited September 2007
    darleysam wrote: »
    I say DAMN THE MAN, this stuff should be free.

    Yeah, when you were a kid, and your friends wanted to play on your nintendo, you told them to fuck off and buy their own, mirite?

    u r rite

    16kakxt.jpg
  • NexusSixNexusSix Registered User
    edited September 2007
    I'm of the opinion that consumers should not pay for a piece of media more than once. If you've purchased BioShock for the PC, it's yours and you should be able to install it whenever and wherever you want--you've paid for that right, so long as your not handing out free copies to deadbeats who like to steal shit. Making paying consumers jump through hoops with all of this shit--videogames, MP3 files, DVD vs. Blu-Ray--when they've paid for a product and the company still wants to retain control post-purchase, is getting pretty fucking asinine.

    On the other hand, if you really need to install BioShock on more than a couple of PCs, you probably need to get out of the house more.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Umm its just simultaneus installs, christ people are daft. If you uninstall it frees up the activation key.

  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Phanman wrote: »
    Well think about it like this. What if Paramount Pictures only allowed you to watch your movie on DVD five times, and they counted other people in the room watching it with you as one of your viewings. .

    you mean like a fucking movie theatre?

    you're comparing apples and video games

    STEAM
    Spoiler:
  • ZxerolZxerol The fullest, most luscious beard. Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Preacher wrote: »
    Umm its just simultaneus installs, christ people are daft. If you uninstall it frees up the activation key.

    Actually, at current, it does not. Originally, a 2K rep stated that uninstalling would free up an install credit, but this turned out to be false. They said they would release a separate revocation utility (which you would have to use before uninstalling the game proper), but I don't believe the tool has yet been released.

  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Phanman wrote: »
    Well think about it like this. What if Paramount Pictures only allowed you to watch your movie on DVD five times, and they counted other people in the room watching it with you as one of your viewings. .

    you mean like a fucking movie theatre?

    you're comparing apples and video games

    Yeah, by saying that I should always get a copy of a DVD of a movie I see in theaters, because I paid for it already, right?

  • darleysamdarleysam Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    well surely you can buy it on Steam, and then no-one else can play it! Unless you install your Steam account on someone else's pc, and they log in as you.

    Or you can buy it on the 360, and just hand your disc around to anybody you like! Or even sell it back to the shop, and gain a meagre refund for your troubles.

    I was under the impression that it's 5 simultaneous installs, if you bought an off-the-shelf version (so again, get it on Steam, take it aaanywhere. Get it on the 360, do whatever you damned well please with it), and even if it's not, and you use them up, can't you call up some number and get it unlocked for more installs?

  • Burning OrganBurning Organ Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    They'll probably send out a patch removing the copy protection software in a few months... I think that's the norm with games using securom....
    Or maybe that was starforce.

  • PhanmanPhanman Registered User
    edited September 2007
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    you mean like a fucking movie theatre?

    you're comparing apples and video games

    Movie theater is different because you're only paying to view the movie, not to own it.

    Wii Code: 6596 9931 4190 2980
  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Not really a PC gamer but aren't they basically saying - " Hey guys instead of taking the game and sharing it with 40 bajillion friends were' going to limit you so we can make a profit. Cause you know that's how we make sequels and such"

  • FaricazyFaricazy Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Phanman wrote: »
    Well think about it like this. What if Paramount Pictures only allowed you to watch your movie on DVD five times, and they counted other people in the room watching it with you as one of your viewings. I think you might be upset.

    I'm all for them trying to protect their product from piracy, but not to such extremes that legal owners of the game get the shaft. I shouldn't have to explain myself to some call service rep. about how I had computer problems and need to install the game more than 5 times. There are much better ways to handle this that don't screw over paying customers.
    except movies, as a rule, are group activities, while most videogames are individual activities

    all in all refusing to buy the game over this is fucking dumb and stop being such a whiny righteous idiot

  • ZxerolZxerol The fullest, most luscious beard. Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I guess people didn't read the bolded part of my quote. Apparently, this isn't installations on two different computers, but on the same exact PC, but with two different Windows accounts. Doing so apparently requires you to use up another install credit, which is stupid bogus since it's on the exact same physical machine.

    I'm going to run some tests later on my own rigs to see if this is the true deal.

  • PhanmanPhanman Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Someone mind finding something saying it is simultaneous installs? If so I re-tract my statement as that isn't too bad since iTunes does the same thing.

    I was under the impression it was only 5 installs period.

    Wii Code: 6596 9931 4190 2980
  • Burning OrganBurning Organ Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Not really a PC gamer but aren't they basically saying - " Hey guys instead of taking the game and sharing it with 40 bajillion friends were' going to limit you so we can make a profit. Cause you know that's how we make sequels and such"

    Except you can still do that....
    So it doesn't really do anything.

  • apotheosapotheos Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited September 2007
    I heard somewhere there was a very specific uninstall process separate from the regular uninstall process to re-activate the key. Something involving a utility from 2K games that isn't quite available yet...

    And the "please buy this for 360" propaganda continues...



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  • FaricazyFaricazy Registered User
    edited September 2007
    i'd suggest you buy it on the 360 but i bet some of you will go "NUH UH I REFUSE TO SUPPORT MICROSOFT'S BUSINESS TACTICS" and then i'll have to call you dumb again and oh man it is such a vicious cycle

    edit: lol apo

  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I'm guessing I'm a bad man, because instead of buying the game, I just borrowed my friend's 360 copy after he was finished it (lending him Metroid Prime 3 in return).

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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  • PhanmanPhanman Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Faricazy wrote: »
    i'd suggest you buy it on the 360 but i bet some of you will go "NUH UH I REFUSE TO SUPPORT MICROSOFT'S BUSINESS TACTICS" and then i'll have to call you dumb again and oh man it is such a vicious cycle

    edit: lol apo

    I don't refuse to support M$, I just don't want to buy a broken product, so I don't own a 360.

    I bet you pay for Guitar Hero I song packs and encourage these companies to screw us over so bad. I'm not trying to be righteous, I'm just trying not to get screwed.

    Wii Code: 6596 9931 4190 2980
  • ForarForar #432 Already prepping for Toronto Fan Expo!Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    apotheos wrote: »
    I heard somewhere there was a very specific uninstall process separate from the regular uninstall process to re-activate the key. Something involving a utility from 2K games that isn't quite available yet...

    That's exactly how it is, as far as I know.

    However, the game just came out. I finished it shortly thereafter, but there's barely enough time to have loaned it to ONE friend to install and play, let alone FIVE more friends, in order for this to become a hassle.

    Now, I disagree with utilizing two keys for the same machine, but at the end of the day, unless he plans to install it 6 times for his whole family and a couple friends, that should be plenty.

    All this says to me is that if I loan out Bioshock to a friend, I just have to warn them to not uninstall it until said removal tool comes out, which really shouldn't be that big a deal, unless the utility becomes available, like, next year.

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  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    If I install Bioshock, and have to reformat, I am potentially screwed.

    Imagine a situation where a non-tech-savvy consumer buys Bioshock, they install it on one computer, have unrelated problems, so get a friend/the store to do a reformat. There goes one install. Then in 6 months when their Power Supply busts, they decide to get the new PC they had been thinking about, they ditch the old one, head to PC world and get a new shiny PC, only to find that they have used their allotted 2 installs of Bioshock - they are screwed.

    To me, upping the amount to 5 is no way near enough, I will not buy Bioshock for the PC with that kind of crippling DRM. They will either loose out on my money, patch it out and get my money, or I will eventually get a 360 and cement my position as a disillusioned 21st century PC gamer.

    This issue is about legitimate consumers having to put up with puclishers efforts to prevent piracy, it's ridiculous - the illegitimate pirates are getting a better quality product for free, and publishers still make efforts to make the process of buying and playing a game as inconvenient for legitimate consumers as possible.

  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Phanman wrote: »
    Faricazy wrote: »
    i'd suggest you buy it on the 360 but i bet some of you will go "NUH UH I REFUSE TO SUPPORT MICROSOFT'S BUSINESS TACTICS" and then i'll have to call you dumb again and oh man it is such a vicious cycle

    edit: lol apo

    I don't refuse to support M$, I just don't want to buy a broken product, so I don't own a 360.

    I bet you pay for Guitar Hero I song packs and encourage these companies to screw us over so bad. I'm not trying to be righteous, I'm just trying not to get screwed.

    broken as in the RRoD?

    you are aware that the new heatsinks have been in the system for almost 2 months now yes?

    STEAM
    Spoiler:
  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Not really a PC gamer but aren't they basically saying - " Hey guys instead of taking the game and sharing it with 40 bajillion friends were' going to limit you so we can make a profit. Cause you know that's how we make sequels and such"

    PC games have, for years, had the same protection console games have, i.e. you need the disc in the drive to play it, and you ain't got but one disc (and copying this disc in a way that the game recognizes as legitimate is very difficult). On PCs, this has been rather easy to get around since the only thing on the disc that the program actually needs is, well, the copy protection data, as opposed to, say, my Wii, where the whole game is loading from the disc.

    Bioshock incorporates a new, improved copy protection scheme where, in addition to the usual crap above, you're only allowed to install the game on two (was later increased to five) computers. You can still only run it on one computer at a time because of the usual disc requirement. Consider the frequency that the average PC gamer upgrades or replaces his computer and you see the problem this presents.

    Now, it's surfaced that separate Windows accounts on the same computer count as separate computers for the purpose of that license. This is, well, not good, especially since if you just steal the whole goddamn game off the Internet in the first place you don't have any such restrictions. This is called a "BTO vulnerability" in the DRM industry: where the pirated copy is Better Than the Original. This is why, for instance, the practice of having PC gamers look up the word on line n of page k of the manual fell out of style: pirated games didn't piss off the user in (ironically) an attempt to keep him from pirating the game. It seems that the industry as a whole is going to have to re-learn this lesson, as they re-learned it previously when they all wanted to use the (easily bypassable) Starforce and paying customers didn't want to give their computers cyber-AIDS.

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  • ForarForar #432 Already prepping for Toronto Fan Expo!Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    2 installs? I could swear it was already upped to 5.

    And even though the tool to get some of those back doesn't exist, I'm pretty sure there's a clause where you can actually call up the company's support line, talk with them for a bit, and get some or all of them back.

    Unless you have an entire college dorm playing off one copy, I really don't see what the big deal is.

    sigtwo.png
  • PhanmanPhanman Registered User
    edited September 2007
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Phanman wrote: »
    Faricazy wrote: »
    i'd suggest you buy it on the 360 but i bet some of you will go "NUH UH I REFUSE TO SUPPORT MICROSOFT'S BUSINESS TACTICS" and then i'll have to call you dumb again and oh man it is such a vicious cycle

    edit: lol apo

    I don't refuse to support M$, I just don't want to buy a broken product, so I don't own a 360.

    I bet you pay for Guitar Hero I song packs and encourage these companies to screw us over so bad. I'm not trying to be righteous, I'm just trying not to get screwed.

    broken as in the RRoD?

    you are aware that the new heatsinks have been in the system for almost 2 months now yes?

    I am aware, and waiting to see how they perform. I have plenty to keep me busy in the meantime.

    Wii Code: 6596 9931 4190 2980
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