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Trebuchets

Gorilla SaladGorilla Salad Registered User
edited September 2007 in Games and Technology
Shamelessly stolen from Wiki.
Wikipedia wrote:
A trebuchet is a medieval siege engine, a weapon employed either to smash masonry walls or to throw projectiles over them. It is sometimes called a "counterweight trebuchet" in order to distinguish it from an earlier weapon that has come to be called the "traction trebuchet." Sometimes the word trebuchet is used to refer ambiguously to either weapon, but originally it referred to the counterweighted weapon. All trebuchets were made from wood.
The counterweight trebuchet appeared in both Christian and Muslim lands around the Mediterranean in the twelfth century. It could fling three hundred pound (140 kg) projectiles at high speeds into enemy fortifications. On occasion, disease-infected corpses were flung into cities in an attempt to infect the people under siege--a medieval variant of biological warfare. Trebuchets were invented in China in about the 4th century BC, came to Europe in the 6th century AD, and did not become obsolete until the 16th century, well after the introduction of gunpowder. Trebuchets were far more accurate than other medieval catapults.
L_trebuchet.jpg
Picture from Lego education

So, let's discuss Trebuchets. Have you ever built one? Full size or small scale? What would you launch with it?

Gorilla Salad on
Organichu wrote: »
The main rub is that, fuck, I'm already paying some to upgrade the length... why not pay a little bit more to upgrade the length AND width?
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Posts

  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    1. Yes.
    2. Full-size.
    3. Cows.
    Spoiler:

    Cows are good for the splatter effect, but they can't beat cars.

  • UrielUriel Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2007
    man what the fuck why would you post this here

    jesus

  • Gorilla SaladGorilla Salad Registered User
    edited September 2007
    I would like to build a full-scale trebuchet, but I do not have the resources.

    Organichu wrote: »
    The main rub is that, fuck, I'm already paying some to upgrade the length... why not pay a little bit more to upgrade the length AND width?
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Doc wrote: »
    man what the fuck why would you post this here

    jesus

    old techology is still technology.

  • Gorilla SaladGorilla Salad Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Doc wrote: »
    man what the fuck why would you post this here

    jesus
    Check the rules.

    Besides, I really like trebuchets.

    Organichu wrote: »
    The main rub is that, fuck, I'm already paying some to upgrade the length... why not pay a little bit more to upgrade the length AND width?
  • ProjeckProjeck Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    LewieP wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    man what the fuck why would you post this here

    jesus

    old techology is still technology.

    Fo reals.

    m6eoUgQ.jpg
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2007
    LewieP wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    man what the fuck why would you post this here

    jesus

    old techology is still technology.

    Good point.

  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2007
    Doc wrote: »
    man what the fuck why would you post this here

    jesus

    Because trebuchets are medieval technology.


    I never quite got the hang of how exactly trecbuchets work.

    3DS: 2509-1593-4994
    Steam Profile
    PSN ID: Dohaeris210
    Treadmill Desk Twitch Stream : status.php?streamuser=SniperGuy210
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2007
  • NackmatholnNackmatholn Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I actually want to make one of these at the office (obviously small) when I move to the new floor. The higher cube walls will make my inter-cube catapult all but useless!

  • rayofashrayofash Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Teach me how to make one and I would.

  • TheKoolEagleTheKoolEagle Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I actually want to make one of these at the office (obviously small) when I move to the new floor. The higher cube walls will make my inter-cube catapult all but useless!

    http://www.trebuchet.com/10400
    only $69!


    http://www.trebuchet.com/11001
    this one is only $29

  • Gorilla SaladGorilla Salad Registered User
    edited September 2007
    rayofash wrote: »
    Teach me how to make one and I would.
    Let me go get some plans.

    You can find many more by searching "Trebuchet Plans" on google.

    Organichu wrote: »
    The main rub is that, fuck, I'm already paying some to upgrade the length... why not pay a little bit more to upgrade the length AND width?
  • WrenWren Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    siege towers are way cooler anyways

    tf2sig.jpg
    TF2 - Wren BF3: Wren-fu
  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    They are actually pretty simple in concept.

  • UrielUriel Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Actually screw ballista, I want a M109A6 self propelled howitzer

  • VeegeezeeVeegeezee Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Here's some discussion on the math behind how they work, if you're into that. You can get improved range if you allow the axle to drift horizontally and constrain the counterweight to drop only vertically.

    img30.png

    I had planned on building one of these a few years ago, but life sort of interrupted and I never picked it back up again.

  • NackmatholnNackmatholn Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I can see it now, I'm going to put out a light (or someones eye) with a push pin...

  • Gorilla SaladGorilla Salad Registered User
    edited September 2007
    I can see it now, I'm going to put out a light (or someones eye) with a push pin...
    Make sure to bring a video camera.

    Organichu wrote: »
    The main rub is that, fuck, I'm already paying some to upgrade the length... why not pay a little bit more to upgrade the length AND width?
  • volluspavolluspa Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Veegeezee wrote: »
    Here's some discussion on the math behind how they work, if you're into that. You can get improved range if you allow the axle to drift horizontally and constrain the counterweight to drop only vertically.

    img30.png

    I had planned on building one of these a few years ago, but life sort of interrupted and I never picked it back up again.

    I wasn't expecting the math behind it so soon. i'd figured it would show up on page 3 or 4. but thats an interesting read.

  • NickTheNewbieNickTheNewbie Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
  • NackmatholnNackmatholn Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I can see it now, I'm going to put out a light (or someones eye) with a push pin...
    Make sure to bring a video camera.

    I'm thinking about it, But since I work in a bank, they may lynch me for bringing a camera in. We have to keep our cellphones off at work as it is...

  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I built one in college. Well I hamered some stuff and some engineering dudes asked what we were doing, made some suggestions, and eventually took the whole thing over. It was more fun when we were going by intuition and gauged success by it not collapsing under its own weight.

    14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
  • VeegeezeeVeegeezee Registered User
    edited September 2007
    volluspa wrote: »
    Veegeezee wrote: »
    Here's some discussion on the math behind how they work, if you're into that. You can get improved range if you allow the axle to drift horizontally and constrain the counterweight to drop only vertically.

    I had planned on building one of these a few years ago, but life sort of interrupted and I never picked it back up again.

    I wasn't expecting the math behind it so soon. i'd figured it would show up on page 3 or 4. but thats an interesting read.

    It's pretty thorough - it looks like he went through a whole parametric optimization thing on three different trebuchet designs. He cut a few corners, but I don't think it will have affected the results much; I got pretty close to his numbers for the traditional fixed-axle trebuchet, way back when.

  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Pshaw math. Can math lift heavy planks of wood and rocks?

    14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
  • The Black HunterThe Black Hunter Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I find it amazing how they get them to be accurate and consistent.

    Old fashioned weapons and architecture is actually very complex in some cases.

    sig-1.jpg
  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I built one of these in highschool. Launched a grapefruit about 30 yards.

    spent 6 weeks constructing one in physics class.

    ended up launching a watermelon about 300m over the roof of the school (which is 4 storey), over the carkpark and crashing into the primary school roof across the road, landing through a glass roof and spraying watermelon all over a classroom (no kids were in it, this was well after end of school) the terbuchet was enormous. like, ludicrously enormous. i have pics somewhere, of both the device, the launching and the carnage.

    we got in a LOAD of shit for that.

    also, an A+

    scarab you have mental problems
  • The Black HunterThe Black Hunter Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    "YOU FUCKED UP AND ENTIRE SECTION OF A SCHOOL!"
    "I'm sorry sir, I'm so so sorry!"
    "WHAT ABOUT? THAT WAS FUCKING AWESOME! A+"

    Pictures, now.

    sig-1.jpg
  • Rabid_LlamaRabid_Llama Registered User
    edited September 2007
    I built this one a couple years ago. I could never really get it to work like it was supposed to. The sling was always off. It would launch grapes a good 5 feet though.

    /sig
    The+Rabid+Llama.png
  • VeegeezeeVeegeezee Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Malkor wrote: »
    Pshaw math. Can math lift heavy planks of wood and rocks?

    d/dt [δL/δ(dq/dt)] - δL/δq = Q, beeotch

  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
  • bombardierbombardier mr. mully Vancouver, BCSuper Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited September 2007
    I built one in highschool shop class about 4 feet long. Hurled a golf ball a good 100 yards, it did.

  • JawaJawa Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I built one a few years back with my friends, mostly out of old wood from my friends parents fence, some rusty nails and climbing rope we found.

    With no knowledge of how a trebuchet worked we managed to create a fairly large one that was able to hurl a cinder block about 50 meters.

    sadly we were forced to disassemble it before we could unleash it any where else

  • gilraingilrain Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    The ancient technology thread, from back when, was awesome. This thread is also awesome. Trebuchets are awesome. We need more old technology threads. :^:

  • gilraingilrain Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    I built one of these in highschool. Launched a grapefruit about 30 yards.

    spent 6 weeks constructing one in physics class.

    ended up launching a watermelon about 300m over the roof of the school (which is 4 storey), over the carkpark and crashing into the primary school roof across the road, landing through a glass roof and spraying watermelon all over a classroom (no kids were in it, this was well after end of school) the terbuchet was enormous. like, ludicrously enormous. i have pics somewhere, of both the device, the launching and the carnage.

    we got in a LOAD of shit for that.

    also, an A+
    You must find the photos and post them here. GO GO GO!

  • JawaJawa Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I recently went to Les Invalides (The wounded soldier hospital/War Museum/Napoleons tomb) and some of the weapons in the medieval section were insane!!

    Old black powder rifles that were a good 2-3 meters long, pistols with five barrels, insanely ornate cannons and swords.

  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    "YOU FUCKED UP AND ENTIRE SECTION OF A SCHOOL!"
    "I'm sorry sir, I'm so so sorry!"
    "WHAT ABOUT? THAT WAS FUCKING AWESOME! A+"

    Pictures, now.

    Im trying to find em. they are printed, so Ill have to scan em. Its pretty fucking glorious.

    Let me tell you something about my Physics teacher in high school.

    He was awesome. Had some crazy obsession with Wine Gums and was the epitome of mad scientist.

    Used to be one of the lead technicians at sellafield (one of the largest nuclear power plants in europe) and it crazy awesome.

    so its coming to the final semester as it were and we have to do a selection of course work. It can be group work or solo, so a few mates decide to do group cause, well, we suck as physics and group course work nigh on guarantees success, or at least spread blame.

    So the options are kind of like the following:

    investigate capacitors
    explore the law of gravity
    examine conductivity.


    so its totally open ended, and is supervised work (as in all done in class) for about 6 weeks, including the weeks holiday aroudn easter.

    so obviously, we take the explore laws of gravity one, cause from the outset we plan to bomb something or blow shit up. a good choice too as the guys who chose the others ended up in the electonic labs for 6 weeks looking at oscilloscopes and recording mountains of data, while we were out on the rugby pitch contruction pure win out of solid oak.


    so this trebuchet, simple in design really. building it wasnt terribly hard. deciding on the size and actually how to tie it in with decent science was hard. so in the end we went on a kind of 'showing how things fly in parabolas' type experiment. as all course work had to be presented as a kind of thesis, with predictions and conclusions and data etc only more basic as it was only high school.

    constuction was complete and let me tell you one thing. trebuchets are fucking powerful. even a tiny one we built as a prototype the first week for the 'predictions' part of the work (it was about 20cm high) launched fucking pencil shapeners through blackboards (piercing through and shattering the brittle board)

    the final thing stood about 4m high, roughly. it didnt have wheels so we had to get the grounds staff to haul it around for us.

    so the day of 'data collection' arrived and we used the discus circle and subsequent field as an experiment area. good plan as it already had distance markers laid out for incredible distances.

    load up the melon and did a trial run.

    this thing fucking launched out of this thing like some sort of meteor. we wrapped it in a kind of sling and it shot out like a bullet and just vanished. we expected to break the thing but this watermelon (not terribly huge one) was just gone. then we look up and its flying over the school building, which as mentioned is like 4 storeys tall (and as a little anecdote, built in 1667 ish by town elders no less!) and we race around the side of this thing after we hear this thunderous crash and an alarm. this is like 5pm well after school though but a few people are there with us. we get to the primary school across the road, behind the carkpark and find carnage. the roof is caved in, and the classroom is pasted with watermelon, tables are smashed in half. Imagine that scene from Armageddon where the asteroid smashes through all those skyscrapers in new york and obliterates that cab. only on a watermelon scale.

    so our physics teacher comes running in after us (the school is always open at this time until 6 cause its also a daycare and a kind of infant school) but only for like 3 or 4 children and one nanny) and just smiles.

    we had a pretty high bill to pay (our parents ended up shelling out about £300 split 4 ways for the roof and clean up) and needless to say my n64 was confiscated for a long time (as in, i still havent had it back)

    i swear, ill look for the photos but im not holding hope. considering id have to drive 2 hours to my parents house and dig around for the original course work folder (got the photos developed, this way before digital cameras were around popular).

    regardless, it was legendary and still talked about at the school. the trebuchet was dismantled and eventually used as wood for the shop class for like the next 2 years (we bought all the wood ourselves)

    so we get an A+ for it (for any brits, this is year 9, dunno what american equivalent is, someoen mention) and a glowing report at the end of the year.

    we were the same dudes who like 4 years later came into school the night before our graduation at midnight, climbed over the fence with wheelbarrows and emptied the sand pit at the long jump area of the sports field, spent about 5 hours carting what must have been like 3 tons of white sand onto the teachers lounge lawn and constructed a beach volleyball pitch for our last day. was absolutely glorious.

    ah, i love reminiscing.

    scarab you have mental problems
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