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Racism in America

VBakesVBakes Registered User
edited October 2007 in Debate and/or Discourse
So Im watching the news, specifically about the Jena 6. And Ive heard some people say that its only getting blown "out of proportion" because the people involved were black. These and many other people also have the opinion that racism no longer exists in America, or for the most part has faded away. Personally, I find the very notion rediculous. Im curious as to what all your thoughts on the subject are.

The wiki article on the matter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jena_6

VBakes on
Therman Murman?......Jesus.
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Posts

  • Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MASuper Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited September 2007
    How about some context and a link to the Jena 6 thing you're looking at?

    Wqdwp8l.png
  • VBakesVBakes Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Im watching the news. ALso looking at digg comments, idiotic as they are. but Im talking about people who talk about the issue Ive heard in person. On the T, in school, all that good stuff.

    Therman Murman?......Jesus.
  • Squirminator2kSquirminator2k Check out those ports! Sunland, CARegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I have no idea what this story is about, so explain the story and we'll go from there.

    portscenter-pa.gif
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2007
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2007
    The most damning part:

    "The following day, an incident apparently stemming from the Fair Barn fight occurred at a local convenience store. A student who had attended the party encountered Bailey and several friends. An argument ensued, after which the white student ran to his pickup truck and produced a pistol-grip shotgun. Bailey ran after the white student and wrestled him for control of the gun. Bailey's friends intervened in the scuffle and took the gun away. Bailey refused to return it and ultimately took it home with him. Local police reported that the accounts of the white student and black students contradicted each other and formed a report based on testimony taken from eyewitnesses. This resulted in Bailey being charged with three counts: theft of a firearm, second-degree robbery, and disturbing the peace. The white student who produced the weapon was not charged."

  • Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS
    edited September 2007
    Yeah, this story's infuriating on multiple levels. I heard about it a couple months ago on NPR, and proceeded to strip most of the rubber outercovering of my steering wheel off with my fingernails.

    Spoiler:
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Doc wrote: »
    The most damning part:

    "The following day, an incident apparently stemming from the Fair Barn fight occurred at a local convenience store. A student who had attended the party encountered Bailey and several friends. An argument ensued, after which the white student ran to his pickup truck and produced a pistol-grip shotgun. Bailey ran after the white student and wrestled him for control of the gun. Bailey's friends intervened in the scuffle and took the gun away. Bailey refused to return it and ultimately took it home with him. Local police reported that the accounts of the white student and black students contradicted each other and formed a report based on testimony taken from eyewitnesses. This resulted in Bailey being charged with three counts: theft of a firearm, second-degree robbery, and disturbing the peace. The white student who produced the weapon was not charged."

    Dammit. I wish we could just secede from the South. I'm surprised we've never tried.

    steam_sig.png
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Isn't it good that incidents like this seem outside the norm? I mean racism sucks donkey balls, but the outrage over the incidents is good right? It means stupid shit like this won't be tolerated anymore?

    Perhaps I am off, since I live in Washington State the closest to racist thing that ever happened up here was me asking for extra sauce and I got super denied.

  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    It is really hard to discuss racism "in America" because America is such a huge and disparate place. Your experience is going to vary greatly from Jenna to Boston to Portland to Cincinnati.

  • Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS
    edited September 2007
    Preacher wrote: »
    Isn't it good that incidents like this seem outside the norm? I mean racism sucks donkey balls, but the outrage over the incidents is good right? It means stupid shit like this won't be tolerated anymore?

    Perhaps I am off, since I live in Washington State the closest to racist thing that ever happened up here was me asking for extra sauce and I got super denied.

    The thing is, it seems to be a geyser sort of thing: the localized explosion because of pressure building under the surface.

    There's really a surprising amount of prejudice left in the country, and it's most evinced by looking at the racial distribution statistics. It's all for a variety of reasons, of course, and it's pretty subtle, but it's still there. It's just that certain places (read: the south, small towns, raciall divided cities) tend to be more accepting and reinforcing of de facto racism, and it causes all sorts of shit like this and the Rodney King riots to happen.

    Spoiler:
  • AbsurdistAbsurdist Registered User
    edited September 2007
    I grew up about 30 miles from Jena, and I can tell you that this kind of thing happens there much more than in say, San Diego, where I live now. Small towns in the South have a lot more clearly drawn racial divisions than do most places I've been. The Jena 6 thing doesn't even surprise me, really. I mean, it's utter crap, of course, and these kids are having the book thrown at them when it's ludicrous to do so. Racism, intolerance, corruption...they're all mingled up in there, but whichever way you spin it, it's completely unjust and reprehensible.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • NexelauNexelau Registered User
    edited September 2007
    America just seems to big and divided to me to speak of anything in absolutes. However, like Preacher said, presuming this case is infact one of racism (its not even eight in the morning yet, Wiki make my brain hurt), the outcry shows that when these incidents do happen people are angry.. which is a good sign.

    In any society where there are people of different races, racism occurs from all angles, generally speaking the majority race is the offensive one.. the minority the victim. The important thing is not "does it happen" because it will always happen, fear and dislike of the different is part of human nature, the important thing is how the society as a whole reacts to it.

    I do fear in modern society, not just in America since your ways of thinking do tend to spread to other western countries, that we forget too often that Racism is.. well.. hatred of any individual by another based purely on their race. It doesn't matter if the victim is black, latino, asian, white, green, blue or yellow. We must also remember that just because somebody does not like an individual or group of people from a particular race does not mean they are Racist... it could just mean they do not agree with that group's morals, or way of acting.

    I personally feel that we are becoming to fast to judge things as Racism... when often it could just be that someone doesn't like that specific group of people.. communities are responsible for their own public face, if all people see of the local black community is a bunch of violent youths hanging around the streets at night making trouble, they are going to make assumptions, it is up to the black community to stop those kids causing trouble.. just like when we see morons in white sheets lighting fire to crosses, we judge their entire communities, because it is up to those communities to make sure they know it is unacceptable.

    Edit: Also.. how do you fight Racism? I mean.. how far do you go.. fighting it is all well and good, but at some point (especially in America which seems to be all about people's freedoms) you have to say that you've gone far enough, and after that people are free to have their own thoughts. Is someone who gets angry and says a bad word, Racist.. or just a dumb, angry, person for that one moment.. is it fair to lump them into the same group as sheet wearing maniacs? These things need to be addressed, because it is all to possible to go over the top, and make it unacceptable for someone to.. well.. just not like someone.

  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    No, it's up to everyone to not be retarded enough to allow the actions of a few individuals color their perception of an entire group of people. Or, as we like to say, not being fucking racist (or prejudiced).

    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • khainkhain Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I am so confused how you can be charged with attempted second degree murder for beating up a kid and when tennis shoes became deadly weapons.

  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    When you're a black kid in a small Southern town, apparently. :|

    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • NexelauNexelau Registered User
    edited September 2007
    When all you see of a group of people is the bad, or at least its the vast majority of what you see, it is a natural reaction to judge that group accordingly. I am not American, and honestly I've come into contact with very few members of other races over the years due to where I lived, but I have seen.. and been part of.. subsets of the community that were judged on the fact that a very public group of it were a bunch of nasty little thugs.. I will never blame someone for crossing the road or being nervous when they see me in the street, if I know that a bunch of people who look alot like me are constantly causing trouble in the area. I can endevour to show them that I am not like that, but I cannot ask them not to make the initial judgment because.. quite frankly.. its no more their fault that there is a nasty group of thugs that make people's lives a misery who look alot like me, than it is mine.

  • NexelauNexelau Registered User
    edited September 2007
    khain wrote: »
    I am so confused how you can be charged with attempted second degree murder for beating up a kid and when tennis shoes became deadly weapons.

    Well... apparently there were six attackers and one victim... I could see how six sets of tennis shoes be considered a lethal weapon when on feet that are kicking someone... especially when one of them had a history of violence?

    That said, I do find it hard to see this case not being racially motivated.. it just seems screwed up.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax Bondage Discipline Spider-Man Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Nexelau wrote: »
    khain wrote: »
    I am so confused how you can be charged with attempted second degree murder for beating up a kid and when tennis shoes became deadly weapons.

    Well... apparently there were six attackers and one victim... I could see how six sets of tennis shoes be considered a lethal weapon when on feet that are kicking someone... especially when one of them had a history of violence?

    That said, I do find it hard to see this case not being racially motivated.. it just seems screwed up.
    Just FYI, that's not how the law is supposed to work.

    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it
  • PartialartistPartialartist Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Nexelau wrote: »
    I personally feel that we are becoming to fast to judge things as Racism... when often it could just be that someone doesn't like that specific group of people.. communities are responsible for their own public face, if all people see of the local black community is a bunch of violent youths hanging around the streets at night making trouble, they are going to make assumptions, it is up to the black community to stop those kids causing trouble.. just like when we see morons in white sheets lighting fire to crosses, we judge their entire communities, because it is up to those communities to make sure they know it is unacceptable.

    Edit: Also.. how do you fight Racism? I mean.. how far do you go.. fighting it is all well and good, but at some point (especially in America which seems to be all about people's freedoms) you have to say that you've gone far enough, and after that people are free to have their own thoughts. Is someone who gets angry and says a bad word, Racist.. or just a dumb, angry, person for that one moment.. is it fair to lump them into the same group as sheet wearing maniacs? These things need to be addressed, because it is all to possible to go over the top, and make it unacceptable for someone to.. well.. just not like someone.

    Is it fair that I get lumped in with those dumb-ass kids, simply because I look like them? I want to make something absolutely clear. The only thing I have in common with black people who would act like that is my skin color, and that alone does not make me any more responsible for their actions than any white man. For most of my life, I've been pulled in two directions, by kids in my old neighborhood who would browbeat me for "acting white" and by my teachers (though, only the black ones), who pressed me to excel so that they could point to me and say "look, not all of them are fucked up." All I've ever wanted was to be judged by my own successes and failures. If I screwed up, it would only reflect poorly on me, and if I succeeded, I wouldn't be known as a "credit to my race."

    But that can't happen, because of generalizing fucksticks. If I have deal with it, because of how I look, then they can deal with it, because of what they actually say and do.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]PSN : TheIdiomatic
  • NexelauNexelau Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Just FYI, that's not how the law is supposed to work.

    Which part? The part where I think that six guys beating on one deserve to have their feet considered lethal weapons, or the part where, like I said.. this specific case seems racist and therefore wrong?

  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2007
    Nexelau wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Just FYI, that's not how the law is supposed to work.

    Which part? The part where I think that six guys beating on one deserve to have their feet considered lethal weapons

    That part.

  • NexelauNexelau Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Is it fair that I get lumped in with those dumb-ass kids, simply because I look like them? I want to make something absolutely clear. The only thing I have in common with black people who would act like that is my skin color, and that alone does not make me any more responsible for their actions than any white man. For most of my life, I've been pulled in two directions, by kids in my old neighborhood who would browbeat me for "acting white" and by my teachers (though, only the black ones), who pressed me to excel so that they could point to me and say "look, not all of them are fucked up." All I've ever wanted was to be judged by my own successes and failures. If I screwed up, it would only reflect poorly on me, and if I succeeded, I wouldn't be known as a "credit to my race."

    But that can't happen, because of generalizing fucksticks. If I have deal with it, because of how I look, then they can deal with it, because of what they actually say and do.

    No, its not fair, I fully agree with you.. remember, like I said, I have been in that situation, judged because of the actions of others who just happen to look like me... however the community I was part of has to take up at least some of the responsibility for that. Your community was just as wrong for doing what it did to you.. both the violence because you were "acting white" and the pushing too hard because they wanted to make a point.. what they should have been doing is encouraging everyone and not allowing the thugs who beat people up to represent their community.

  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Nexelau wrote: »
    When all you see of a group of people is the bad, or at least its the vast majority of what you see, it is a natural reaction to judge that group accordingly. I am not American, and honestly I've come into contact with very few members of other races over the years due to where I lived, but I have seen.. and been part of.. subsets of the community that were judged on the fact that a very public group of it were a bunch of nasty little thugs.. I will never blame someone for crossing the road or being nervous when they see me in the street, if I know that a bunch of people who look alot like me are constantly causing trouble in the area. I can endevour to show them that I am not like that, but I cannot ask them not to make the initial judgment because.. quite frankly.. its no more their fault that there is a nasty group of thugs that make people's lives a misery who look alot like me, than it is mine.

    That's not really analogous to this case. There's a huge difference between someone crossing the street because I'm a big black guy and someone charging me with attempted murder because I and my friends are black and we happened to be beating up a white dude who pulled a gun on us.

    Don't get me wrong, they were committing a crime, but not of that caliber. I don't think I've ever heard of people participating in gang fights like this getting charged with attempted murder. And this in addition to other clearly racist shit that was happening in the town. It's hard for me to believe that these things aren't related, and being a black guy from a small town in Texas, it's even harder for me to give the authorities the benefit of the doubt.

    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2007
    It should also be noted that Louisiana has a generally fucked up legal system compared to the rest of the US, as they don't rely on common law like the other 49 states.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana#Law_and_government

  • NexelauNexelau Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Doc wrote: »

    That part.

    Fair enough, in truth I don't know enough about law, especially American law, to say ;) I was under the impression that lethal weapon just equaled something that in the circumstances could kill.
    That's not really analogous to this case. There's a huge difference between someone crossing the street because I'm a big black guy and someone charging me with attempted murder because I and my friends are black and we happened to be beating up a white dude who pulled a gun on us.

    Don't get me wrong, they were committing a crime, but not of that caliber. I don't think I've ever heard of people participating in gang fights like this getting charged with attempted murder. And this in addition to other clearly racist shit that was happening in the town. It's hard for me to believe that these things aren't related, and being a black guy from a small town in Texas, it's even harder for me to give the authorities the benefit of the doubt.

    I fully agree that racism was at work here, but the thread was as much about racism in general (in america, but I think its a universal thing) as it was about this case.. at least I thought.

    Also, when it comes to the gun thing.. isn't the sensible course of action when faced with a shotgun to back the hell down and call the cops? We also don't know the specifics of the situation.. we do know that the night before, there was a fight at a party.. and apparently the next day, one white guy (am I reading that wrong? Was more than one white guy present?) found himself faced with a bunch of guys who were involved in said fight... possibly felt threatened? Please remember, I'm English, I don't understand and honestly fear guns... the idea that someone can even own a shotgun is alien to me.. so the idea that he could go and get it and wave it around makes me assume it was an either desperate situation for him or he was breaking the law and would have been arrested if it was reported without violence.

  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    In rural America, hunting and gun ownership are pretty normal. My wife told me that when she was in high school, the more "country" white guys would have gun racks on their trucks and their rifles inside. On school grounds. So the kid having a shotty in his truck isn't exactly a surprise to me. He was probably scared, and I really doubt any charge against him for aggravated assault (that's the charge you'd normally get for waving a gun threateningly at someone) would've gone anywhere. Given the way things are in that town, he might've shot one of the dudes and gotten off on a plea of self-defense.

    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    wwtMask wrote: »
    In rural America, hunting and gun ownership are pretty normal. My wife told me that when she was in high school, the more "country" white guys would have gun racks on their trucks and their rifles inside. On school grounds. So the kid having a shotty in his truck isn't exactly a surprise to me. He was probably scared, and I really doubt any charge against him for aggravated assault (that's the charge you'd normally get for waving a gun threateningly at someone) would've gone anywhere. Given the way things are in that town, he might've shot one of the dudes and gotten off on a plea of self-defense.

    Up here I guess it was common even in the larger towns for kids not to worry about having a rifle or shotgun in their truck on school property. Statewide I believe possession is only banned inside school buildings, and individual municipalities/districts are free to enact their own policies regarding parking lots...and I'm pretty sure some of the bumfuck districts still don't worry about it.

    This is something that is slowly changing as more schools adopt zero-tolerance policies on firearms on school property for students...but the idea that a student absolutely cannot have a firearm in their vehicle at school is not, unless I'm horribly mistaken, universal.

    As for off school property, in many areas the only thing keeping kids from keeping a rifle/shotgun in their vehicle is the pain in the ass of having to put it in and take it back out before and after school if their school has banned it.

  • NexelauNexelau Registered User
    edited September 2007
    In rural America, hunting and gun ownership are pretty normal. My wife told me that when she was in high school, the more "country" white guys would have gun racks on their trucks and their rifles inside. On school grounds. So the kid having a shotty in his truck isn't exactly a surprise to me. He was probably scared, and I really doubt any charge against him for aggravated assault (that's the charge you'd normally get for waving a gun threateningly at someone) would've gone anywhere. Given the way things are in that town, he might've shot one of the dudes and gotten off on a plea of self-defense.

    See, for me, the bolded is an important thing here... I hate the idea of racism, really, but I also hate the idea that some poor kid getting intimidated by a group of other kids might reach for something that its apparently normal for him to carry (I won't get into that, suffice to say such acceptance of firearms makes me shudder), get the crap beaten out of it when they could have backed away, and then watch them be called victims...

  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Just because all of that went down doesn't mean they can't be victims. They weren't victims in the fight, but in the ensuing legal case they're being railroaded and it seems to be because of their race.

    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • NexelauNexelau Registered User
    edited September 2007
    I'm not saying they weren't discriminated against because of their race... the whole "watch them be called victims" thing was poorly worded on my part..

    My base concern really is, with all this concern about racism.. do we stop to wonder if the people we are defending were actually guilty of the wrong they did.. do we end up defending thugs, murders and other criminals based purely on the fact that the people who convicted them don't like their skin colour.. is it right that, because this town seems to have alot of racial problems in it.. a bunch of kids who may well have been in the wrong, including one with a history of violence, gets treated by a group of people outside that town like they were totally innocent and the only victims in the situation?

  • PartialartistPartialartist Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Nexelau wrote: »
    Is it fair that I get lumped in with those dumb-ass kids, simply because I look like them? I want to make something absolutely clear. The only thing I have in common with black people who would act like that is my skin color, and that alone does not make me any more responsible for their actions than any white man. For most of my life, I've been pulled in two directions, by kids in my old neighborhood who would browbeat me for "acting white" and by my teachers (though, only the black ones), who pressed me to excel so that they could point to me and say "look, not all of them are fucked up." All I've ever wanted was to be judged by my own successes and failures. If I screwed up, it would only reflect poorly on me, and if I succeeded, I wouldn't be known as a "credit to my race."

    But that can't happen, because of generalizing fucksticks. If I have deal with it, because of how I look, then they can deal with it, because of what they actually say and do.

    No, its not fair, I fully agree with you.. remember, like I said, I have been in that situation, judged because of the actions of others who just happen to look like me... however the community I was part of has to take up at least some of the responsibility for that. Your community was just as wrong for doing what it did to you.. both the violence because you were "acting white" and the pushing too hard because they wanted to make a point.. what they should have been doing is encouraging everyone and not allowing the thugs who beat people up to represent their community.

    Mine did too, for a while. Outcry from a lot of families got the gangs to enter a truce. Things were going fairly well, until a recent spate of shootings. Plus, I didn't really get grief from everyone, just a really vocal minority, that influenced a lot of people.

    I understand why people generalize, and I don't put all of the blame on them. My real beef is with the general media perception of things. I mean, until recently, how many positive black roles did you see on television? The Cosby Show was a huge gamble for its network, at the time. I just get this feeling that there's this institutionalized bias in the media, and what's worse, people actually buy into it and internalize it.

    It's hard not to be sore about the subject, especially when you've been followed in stores, had passersby clutch their purses(or reach for pepper spray), been described as "one of the good ones," been told your braids are threatening, gotten icy stares when hanging out with a white woman, been completely ignored when asking for directions, been "clicked" at(at Harvard, no less), and all you can do is take solace in the fact that, historically speaking, it's a step up.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]PSN : TheIdiomatic
  • NexelauNexelau Registered User
    edited September 2007
    I understand why people generalize, and I don't put all of the blame on them. My real beef is with the general media perception of things. I mean, until recently, how many positive black roles did you see on television? The Cosby Show was a huge gamble for its network, at the time. I just get this feeling that there's this institutionalized bias in the media, and what's worse, people actually buy into it and internalize it.

    Recently, living in Australia, I've noticed alot of American shows on Foxtel (cable TV) that seem to be almost entirely black in cast... the great thing is that many of them are not that different from the ones that are about white families.. Disney has several such as That's So Raven and the Proud Family, that features black families at the centre of them... which is surely a sign of progress? What really says that it is to me, is the fact that they are not advertised or promoted as different from other shows of their type... the skin colour is ignored and so for the most part is stereotypical behavior.

    Incidentally, kudos to your community for working on ridding themselves of gang violence.. it must be a very hard thing to do, but in the long run.. as far as I can tell.. the surest way to end racism is to unite as a community and show the outside world that the worst aspects that it see's is neither normal or tolerated. This must come from both sides.

  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I don't think anyone is saying they're innocent, nor have I heard any news implying they're innocent of any wrongdoing. The uproar is solely about the unwarranted charges that are being leveled at them for what appears to be racial motives.

    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • PartialartistPartialartist Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Nexelau wrote: »
    I'm not saying they weren't discriminated against because of their race... the whole "watch them be called victims" thing was poorly worded on my part..

    My base concern really is, with all this concern about racism.. do we stop to wonder if the people we are defending were actually guilty of the wrong they did.. do we end up defending thugs, murders and other criminals based purely on the fact that the people who convicted them don't like their skin colour.. is it right that, because this town seems to have alot of racial problems in it.. a bunch of kids who may well have been in the wrong, including one with a history of violence, gets treated by a group of people outside that town like they were totally innocent and the only victims in the situation?

    Yeah, often times there is a knee-jerk reaction that occurs when things seem to be racially motivated. It's a sign of the tensions that are still prevalent. Take the Vick dog-fighting scandal. There were some people who automatically came to his defense, out of a belief that it was a conspiracy to bring him down. That one was a bit muddy, though, because of the media's tendency to crucify people before they have their day in court. When you combine deep-rooted suspicion with criminal voyeurism it can be hard to keep a calm head and get all the facts about high-profile cases.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]PSN : TheIdiomatic
  • PartialartistPartialartist Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Nexelau wrote: »
    Recently, living in Australia, I've noticed alot of American shows on Foxtel (cable TV) that seem to be almost entirely black in cast... the great thing is that many of them are not that different from the ones that are about white families.. Disney has several such as That's So Raven and the Proud Family, that features black families at the centre of them... which is surely a sign of progress? What really says that it is to me, is the fact that they are not advertised or promoted as different from other shows of their type... the skin colour is ignored and so for the most part is stereotypical behavior.

    Incidentally, kudos to your community for working on ridding themselves of gang violence.. it must be a very hard thing to do, but in the long run.. as far as I can tell.. the surest way to end racism is to unite as a community and show the outside world that the worst aspects that it see's is neither normal or tolerated. This must come from both sides.

    I'm glad that the trend is changing. For some homogeneous communities, their only insight into different groups of people comes from what they see on television. Any step towards a balanced, normalized perception is a welcome change. I actually have a lot of hope for the future, once the Old Guard dies off.

    One of the hardest things about bringing about change in a community is the fact that no one wants to live in a rundown area, and those with the ability to get out are also the people most able to change things, so the negative elements end up gaining power. Fortunately for my area, we had a lot of non-profit groups instituting job programs, neighborhood families would conduct meetings and a good amount of low-income housing and community centers were built. The problem that I've noticed when I visit is that there have been a lot of new people coming into the area, and they apparently didn't get the memo, so their stirring things up. Hopefully the violence dies down.

    Sorry for the OT.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]PSN : TheIdiomatic
  • BelketreBelketre Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    wwtMask wrote: »
    Just because all of that went down doesn't mean they can't be victims. They weren't victims in the fight, but in the ensuing legal case they're being railroaded and it seems to be because of their race.

    No.
    This right here is half the problem. People coming up with bullshit, unfounded reasons why this is racially motivated. A civil rights group pulls the race card, yet again, to make people feel like these shitheads are being hard done by. You bought it hook, line and sinker.

    The fact is, 6 guys kicked the living crap out of 1 guy. He was beaten to the ground, at which point they decided to start kicking him in the head. Pretty common knowledge that you can kill somebody by doing that, thus the attempted murder charges. Seems fair to me.
    wwtMask wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is saying they're innocent, nor have I heard any news implying they're innocent of any wrongdoing. The uproar is solely about the unwarranted charges that are being leveled at them for what appears to be racial motives.

    Where exactly are these apparent 'racial motives' other than the ones some civil rights group has told you are there? I certainly dont see any. I'd think the charges being levelled at them were fair no matter what race they are. I'd say the racist part of whats going on here is basically accusing an entire justice system of being card carrying clansmen.

  • Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MASuper Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited September 2007
    The small towns I've been to in the South seem to place a huge premium on people staying to their "roles" and not upsetting the status quo. Part of the status quo, of course, is the racial separation and hierarchy that's persisted for centuries. I get the impression that these kids are being crucified less for whatever crimes they committed and much more for the fact that they "stepped out of bounds" and have shaken up what people saw as the proper order.

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  • Chake99Chake99 Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Belketre wrote: »
    wwtMask wrote: »
    Just because all of that went down doesn't mean they can't be victims. They weren't victims in the fight, but in the ensuing legal case they're being railroaded and it seems to be because of their race.

    No.
    This right here is half the problem. People coming up with bullshit, unfounded reasons why this is racially motivated. A civil rights group pulls the race card, yet again, to make people feel like these shitheads are being hard done by. You bought it hook, line and sinker.

    The fact is, 6 guys kicked the living crap out of 1 guy. He was beaten to the ground, at which point they decided to start kicking him in the head. Pretty common knowledge that you can kill somebody by doing that, thus the attempted murder charges. Seems fair to me.
    wwtMask wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is saying they're innocent, nor have I heard any news implying they're innocent of any wrongdoing. The uproar is solely about the unwarranted charges that are being leveled at them for what appears to be racial motives.

    Where exactly are these apparent 'racial motives' other than the ones some civil rights group has told you are there? I certainly dont see any. I'd think the charges being levelled at them were fair no matter what race they are. I'd say the racist part of whats going on here is basically accusing an entire justice system of being card carrying clansmen.

    I'm pretty sure you're wrong. Did you read the wikipedia article? All the violence that took place was obviously racially motivated (i.e. it was white students fighting black students) and then the black kids get disproportionately large sentences by all white juries.

    Hic Rhodus, Hic Salta.
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy Fighting the War on String Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Drez wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    The most damning part:

    "The following day, an incident apparently stemming from the Fair Barn fight occurred at a local convenience store. A student who had attended the party encountered Bailey and several friends. An argument ensued, after which the white student ran to his pickup truck and produced a pistol-grip shotgun. Bailey ran after the white student and wrestled him for control of the gun. Bailey's friends intervened in the scuffle and took the gun away. Bailey refused to return it and ultimately took it home with him. Local police reported that the accounts of the white student and black students contradicted each other and formed a report based on testimony taken from eyewitnesses. This resulted in Bailey being charged with three counts: theft of a firearm, second-degree robbery, and disturbing the peace. The white student who produced the weapon was not charged."

    Dammit. I wish we could just secede from the South. I'm surprised we've never tried.

    But we need their precious cotton.

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