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After finishing lthe book, I realized that I never found out why Dumbledore's hand was black. Did I miss a few a pages by accident, or was the reason never really visited? It seems unlikley that it would be revisited in book seven, seeing as
[spoiler:e77e4013e1]he's dead now[/spoiler:e77e4013e1]
did they not explain why Dumbledore petrified Harry, or did I skip over that line?
I'm of the opinion that he wanted to die out there on the tower (and wanted to be killed by Snape rather than Draco, although that's a different subject).
He knew that Harry was more important to the war than he himself was, so he wanted to make sure Harry would survive. Kind of like how in the first Matrix movie, Morpheus sacrifices himself to ensure Neo can escape. Dumbledore knows Harry is the One.
did they not explain why Dumbledore petrified Harry, or did I skip over that line?
I'm of the opinion that he wanted to die out there on the tower (and wanted to be killed by Snape rather than Draco, although that's a different subject).
He knew that Harry was more important to the war than he himself was, so he wanted to make sure Harry would survive. Kind of like how in the first Matrix movie, Morpheus sacrifices himself to ensure Neo can escape. Dumbledore knows Harry is the One.
I figured it was becasue he didn't want Harry to get in the way in his typical hero fashion and die, [spoiler:f6af70d084]seeing as he is the "Chosen One" who can defeat Voldermort.[/spoiler:f6af70d084]
I think he did it because Dumbledore wanted Snape to kill him. They both are skilled mind readers, thats why Dumbledore said please and Snape looked so pissed when he killed him. This also explains the earlier conversation when Snape told Dumbledore he didnt want to do it anymore (referring to him killing Dumbledore). This would also explain why Snape blew up completely when Harry called him a coward.
Just a note on the whole theory that Snape is still on the side of good, and D sacrified himself so that Snape wouldn't break the unbreakable vow and could still be a covert agent. In contrast to the more simple theory that D was too willing to believe in the best of people, and Snape duped him this whole time (He's an accomplished Occlumens remember). JKR said the following in an interview with the webmasters of MuggleNet and The Leaky Cauldron.
MA: …whether this had been planned, and since Dumbledore had this knowledge of Draco the whole year, had they had a discussion that said, "Should this happen, you have to act as if it is entirely your intention to just walk forward and kill me, because if you don't, Draco will die, the Unbreakable Vow, you'll die," and so on —
JKR: No, I see that, and yeah, I follow your line there. I can't — I mean, obviously, there are lines of speculation I don't want to shut down. Generally speaking, I shut down those lines of speculation that are plain unprofitable. Even with the shippers. God bless them, but they had a lot of fun with it. It's when people get really off the wall — it's when people devote hours of their time to proving that Snape is a vampire that I feel it's time to step in, because there's really nothing in the canon that supports that.
This leads me to believe that JKR intended Snape to truly be a betrayer, and yet she wants to keep quiet and encourage people to hope. I would have liked to believe the best as well. But JKR has also stated that, in D's case, his desire to believe there is still good in some people has mislead him.[/quote]
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
Just a note on the whole theory that Snape is still on the side of good, and D sacrified himself so that Snape wouldn't break the unbreakable vow and could still be a covert agent. In contrast to the more simple theory that D was too willing to believe in the best of people, and Snape duped him this whole time (He's an accomplished Occlumens remember). JKR said the following in an interview with the webmasters of MuggleNet and The Leaky Cauldron.
MA: …whether this had been planned, and since Dumbledore had this knowledge of Draco the whole year, had they had a discussion that said, "Should this happen, you have to act as if it is entirely your intention to just walk forward and kill me, because if you don't, Draco will die, the Unbreakable Vow, you'll die," and so on —
JKR: No, I see that, and yeah, I follow your line there. I can't — I mean, obviously, there are lines of speculation I don't want to shut down. Generally speaking, I shut down those lines of speculation that are plain unprofitable. Even with the shippers. God bless them, but they had a lot of fun with it. It's when people get really off the wall — it's when people devote hours of their time to proving that Snape is a vampire that I feel it's time to step in, because there's really nothing in the canon that supports that.
This leads me to believe that JKR intended Snape to truly be a betrayer, and yet she wants to keep quiet and encourage people to hope. I would have liked to believe the best as well. But JKR has also stated that, in D's case, his desire to believe there is still good in some people has mislead him.
[/quote]
[spoiler:7a9f8e1e0a]
I simply can't accept the fact Dumbledore would play right into something like that. Dumbledore dodges questions throughout the entire year from Harry for seemingly no reason other than trust. He isn't that stupid.
Wouldn't it be crazy that if, by some crazy magic loophole Dumbledore's death creates a horcrux for Harry?[/spoiler:7a9f8e1e0a]
I'm of the opinion that, in that snippet of the interview, JK's just putting on an act. "I want to give them hope" -- I mean, if she were really trying to play it neutral, and neither confirm nor deny the speculation, she wouldn't have said anything like that. And if it is indeed as simple as Snape double-crossing Dumbledore...
I dont see him coming back to life per se, but I do see him having knowledge of his death beforehand and leaving an intricate plot behind to help Harry on his future quests. 'Dats how he rolls.
I'm of the opinion that, in that snippet of the interview, JK's just putting on an act. "I want to give them hope" -- I mean, if she were really trying to play it neutral, and neither confirm nor deny the speculation, she wouldn't have said anything like that. And if it is indeed as simple as Snape double-crossing Dumbledore...
Well, to be frank, I expected more of JK.
I guess I have to disagree. I think the alternative outcome is far to contrived and too much of a "twist" to go over with me. What's more compelling than an act of pure betrayal? One that shows that a character who was thought to be very wise and who was thought to have impeccable judgement is, in fact, fallible. I think showing us that even Harry's mentors can fall at the hands of the Dark Lord is important, and also in a sad sort of way shows Harry that trust can be misplaced, even by the wisest of us. It's a cautionary lesson.
As to Gruff's comment:
I dont see him coming back to life per se, but I do see him having knowledge of his death beforehand and leaving an intricate plot behind to help Harry on his future quests. 'Dats how he rolls.
I wouldn't put it past the character to have prepared something interesting to help Harry out in the event of his death.
But if it's all really some complicated plot with Snape to conceal true motives I'll be very disappointed in JKR. It's too hackneyed for me.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
Snape’s betrayal seemed almost too simple for me. I understand its function within the plot, the lesson JK has Harry learn, etc… I feel that, if the past 5 books have taught us anything, we can expect more of an explanation about what happened on that roof. The “Snape is a still a good guy†theory is an interesting one which I won’t write completely off, but there is still a piece of the puzzle, IMHO, which we as readers lack. We discovered that Snape had listened to the prophecy all those years ago, and later admitted his wrongs to D, yadda yadda. There must be more to why D trusted Snape than that. We never heard D tell Harry why himself. I got the sense through all of the books that there was a damn specific reason why Snape had earned D’s trust, and Snape saying ‘God I am sorry’ doesn’t cut it in my mind. Perhaps that is all that there is to it, but even after D’s death JK alludes to the “reason†for D’s trust in Snape when McGonagall says that (paraphrasing) “D had always trusted Snape without a shadow of a doubt.†No doubt we will learn more in the next book, and Snape better fucking watch out when he runs in the Harry again. Either way, I think we can all agree that there is more that meets the eye regarding D’s death at the end of the book.
I'm in line to agree with HBM ... the whole "Snape apologized and felt like crap" reason for Dumbledore to trust him didn't seem to cut it for me. I think Snape's still good, and I think that Dumbeldore trusted him for a better reason.
However, as to Rowling's comments, I will refer you to several other filmmakers, writers, artists - simply, other auteurs: Alfred Hitchcock used his interviews in the media to mislead the audience and set up ideas in their heads before his films opened so that they would be surprised by the things that simply shouldn't have surprised them otherwise. George Lucas told us that "Darth Sidious isn't Chancellor Palpatine," and Chris Carter said that Mulder and Scully wouldn't ever kiss, much less have a relationship.
Some people just don't want it to appear as simple as it really is ... that would spoil the whole thing. The question is whether or not Rowling will be seduced by the desire to kill off Harry at the end of the seventh book simply because it would surprise people.
Interesting ... very interesting. There's quite a few things in there to suggest that [spoiler:ac4bb1e38b]Dumbledore is not dead[/spoiler:ac4bb1e38b], though there are some unanswered questions that sort of ruin that theory. It's kinda funny ... unlike the spoilers that got out about Episode III, we can't really surmise what will happen in the next book until it comes out ... Rowling's pretty good at that.
Reading that site brings into focus my lifelong dream: to write a universally loved series with all the twists and turns that make people buy domain names, debate for hours, and pine for my next release...
...and then to die before writing the last one.
Like Robert Jordan and the Wheel of Time, except good.
Another thing to bring to attention (I didn't visit that dumbledoreisn'tdead site, so please excuse me if this idea is written in bold letters marching and blinking across the screen over there.)
From the first Book
"Dumbledore is particullarly famous for his defeat of the dark wizard Grindelwald in 1945.."
Suppose that Dumbledore killed Grindelwald and made a Holocrux of his own (in Fawkes, perhaps?) This would allow for Dumbledore to be alive still and secure Snape's position as a trusted spy in the Dark Lord's camp without breaking the Unbreakable Vow...out there, I know, but you never know...
Another thing to bring to attention (I didn't visit that dumbledoreisn'tdead site, so please excuse me if this idea is written in bold letters marching and blinking across the screen over there.)
From the first Book
"Dumbledore is particullarly famous for his defeat of the dark wizard Grindelwald in 1945.."
Suppose that Dumbledore killed Grindelwald and made a Holocrux of his own (in Fawkes, perhaps?) This would allow for Dumbledore to be alive still and secure Snape's position as a trusted spy in the Dark Lord's camp without breaking the Unbreakable Vow...out there, I know, but you never know...
It's a theory, yes, but I highly doubt it. Think about what Dumbledore said about creating a horcrux ... it's a horrible thing to do to your soul. You become less of a person if that piece of horcrux is destroyed, plus, you're never a whole person after that. No matter how powerful you are. Plus, who said that defeating someone meant killing them?
I'm pretty sure the ring had a curse wrapped up in it that Dumbledore didn't know about.
Nah, he knew about it, was able to deflect the curse and Snape gave him a healing potion. He says that to Harry that he didn't mind trading his hand for a piece of Volde's soul.
As far as Dumbeldore making a Horcrux, that's a bit extreme, although he did mention that no wizard had ever done more than split his soul in two. And he also mentioned the danger of using an animal as a Horcrux. Possible and interesting though.
I'm still waiting on Harry to finally throw down some serious magic against a powerful wizard though (he briefly hurt Bellatrix, but then Voldemort and Dumbledore showed up). if Snape pretty much owned him, he ain't ready for Voldemort's sheer knowledge and magical skill yet. Props to J.K. and please finish the last book at your leisure. I say 2008 is probably the year of the last book.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Currently playing: Infamous, Resident Evil 5
Need to play: Shadow Complex, Uncharted 2, Ratchet and Clank: ACIT, MW2, Alpha Protocol
I found the whole discussion around the hand incredibly distracting. I can't believe that they kept bringing attention to it, and yet every time the discussion came up, Dumbledore kept pushing off the explanation. When we finally got the explanation, it was a real anticlimax.
I'm reading the books now just to get to the conclusion, but I'm finding these artificial plot extensions to be incredibly annoying.
Personally I think J.K Rowling is having a hard time getting the length of the novels where she wants them and so she is filling them with the little "twists and turns" which are meant to distract us from the lack of a superior plot like what was found in the other novels.
Posts
I'm of the opinion that he wanted to die out there on the tower (and wanted to be killed by Snape rather than Draco, although that's a different subject).
He knew that Harry was more important to the war than he himself was, so he wanted to make sure Harry would survive. Kind of like how in the first Matrix movie, Morpheus sacrifices himself to ensure Neo can escape. Dumbledore knows Harry is the One.
Taken from The Muggle Net http://www.mugglenet.com/jkrinterview2.shtml
This leads me to believe that JKR intended Snape to truly be a betrayer, and yet she wants to keep quiet and encourage people to hope. I would have liked to believe the best as well. But JKR has also stated that, in D's case, his desire to believe there is still good in some people has mislead him.[/quote]
[spoiler:7a9f8e1e0a]
I simply can't accept the fact Dumbledore would play right into something like that. Dumbledore dodges questions throughout the entire year from Harry for seemingly no reason other than trust. He isn't that stupid.
Wouldn't it be crazy that if, by some crazy magic loophole Dumbledore's death creates a horcrux for Harry?[/spoiler:7a9f8e1e0a]
Well, to be frank, I expected more of JK.
I guess I have to disagree. I think the alternative outcome is far to contrived and too much of a "twist" to go over with me. What's more compelling than an act of pure betrayal? One that shows that a character who was thought to be very wise and who was thought to have impeccable judgement is, in fact, fallible. I think showing us that even Harry's mentors can fall at the hands of the Dark Lord is important, and also in a sad sort of way shows Harry that trust can be misplaced, even by the wisest of us. It's a cautionary lesson.
As to Gruff's comment:
I wouldn't put it past the character to have prepared something interesting to help Harry out in the event of his death.
But if it's all really some complicated plot with Snape to conceal true motives I'll be very disappointed in JKR. It's too hackneyed for me.
Snape’s betrayal seemed almost too simple for me. I understand its function within the plot, the lesson JK has Harry learn, etc… I feel that, if the past 5 books have taught us anything, we can expect more of an explanation about what happened on that roof. The “Snape is a still a good guy†theory is an interesting one which I won’t write completely off, but there is still a piece of the puzzle, IMHO, which we as readers lack. We discovered that Snape had listened to the prophecy all those years ago, and later admitted his wrongs to D, yadda yadda. There must be more to why D trusted Snape than that. We never heard D tell Harry why himself. I got the sense through all of the books that there was a damn specific reason why Snape had earned D’s trust, and Snape saying ‘God I am sorry’ doesn’t cut it in my mind. Perhaps that is all that there is to it, but even after D’s death JK alludes to the “reason†for D’s trust in Snape when McGonagall says that (paraphrasing) “D had always trusted Snape without a shadow of a doubt.†No doubt we will learn more in the next book, and Snape better fucking watch out when he runs in the Harry again. Either way, I think we can all agree that there is more that meets the eye regarding D’s death at the end of the book.
However, as to Rowling's comments, I will refer you to several other filmmakers, writers, artists - simply, other auteurs: Alfred Hitchcock used his interviews in the media to mislead the audience and set up ideas in their heads before his films opened so that they would be surprised by the things that simply shouldn't have surprised them otherwise. George Lucas told us that "Darth Sidious isn't Chancellor Palpatine," and Chris Carter said that Mulder and Scully wouldn't ever kiss, much less have a relationship.
Some people just don't want it to appear as simple as it really is ... that would spoil the whole thing. The question is whether or not Rowling will be seduced by the desire to kill off Harry at the end of the seventh book simply because it would surprise people.
- "Chance favors the well-prepared mind."
- "Chance favors the well-prepared mind."
...and then to die before writing the last one.
Like Robert Jordan and the Wheel of Time, except good.
From the first Book
"Dumbledore is particullarly famous for his defeat of the dark wizard Grindelwald in 1945.."
Suppose that Dumbledore killed Grindelwald and made a Holocrux of his own (in Fawkes, perhaps?) This would allow for Dumbledore to be alive still and secure Snape's position as a trusted spy in the Dark Lord's camp without breaking the Unbreakable Vow...out there, I know, but you never know...
It's a theory, yes, but I highly doubt it. Think about what Dumbledore said about creating a horcrux ... it's a horrible thing to do to your soul. You become less of a person if that piece of horcrux is destroyed, plus, you're never a whole person after that. No matter how powerful you are. Plus, who said that defeating someone meant killing them?
- "Chance favors the well-prepared mind."
Nah, he knew about it, was able to deflect the curse and Snape gave him a healing potion. He says that to Harry that he didn't mind trading his hand for a piece of Volde's soul.
As far as Dumbeldore making a Horcrux, that's a bit extreme, although he did mention that no wizard had ever done more than split his soul in two. And he also mentioned the danger of using an animal as a Horcrux. Possible and interesting though.
I'm still waiting on Harry to finally throw down some serious magic against a powerful wizard though (he briefly hurt Bellatrix, but then Voldemort and Dumbledore showed up). if Snape pretty much owned him, he ain't ready for Voldemort's sheer knowledge and magical skill yet. Props to J.K. and please finish the last book at your leisure. I say 2008 is probably the year of the last book.
Currently playing: Infamous, Resident Evil 5
Need to play: Shadow Complex, Uncharted 2, Ratchet and Clank: ACIT, MW2, Alpha Protocol
I'm reading the books now just to get to the conclusion, but I'm finding these artificial plot extensions to be incredibly annoying.
MKS
http://fablesoft.blogspot.com
Husband, Father, and Gamer...Oh, and I manage projects too.