The game's been designed as a multi-parter from the start, is anyone supposed to be surprised that the first game ends with a cliffhanger? The 10 hours is much too short, though.
Mass Effect is designed as a multi-part series but they don't use any dumb cliffhangers.
Yes but Mass Effect is like gaming mana from on high. We can't expect that type of quality from very many titles. We can want it and even crave it but there is no way we'll always get it.
Despite how good ME's ending was, I've still people call it a shitty cliffhanger that doesn't really resolve anything.
Shepard saying that the threat is still out there and that there's still work to be done seems to be a major sticking point. I guess saying that there's still more to be done at the end of the first game of a planned trilogy constitutes too much of a cliffhanger for a lot of people.
Phantasy Star Online (you know the one for 'cube) is one of my favorite games to play with a bunch of friends. If TH can replicate how awesome it is to grind with friends then I'm sold. If it has a good combat system and interesting levels, well, this is where I'll spend the rest of my year :P.
The game's been designed as a multi-parter from the start, is anyone supposed to be surprised that the first game ends with a cliffhanger? The 10 hours is much too short, though.
Mass Effect is designed as a multi-part series but they don't use any dumb cliffhangers.
Yes but Mass Effect is like gaming mana from on high. We can't expect that type of quality from very many titles. We can want it and even crave it but there is no way we'll always get it.
Despite how good ME's ending was, I've still people call it a shitty cliffhanger that doesn't really resolve anything.
Shepard saying that the Reapers are still out there and that there's still work to be done seems to be a major sticking point. I guess saying that there's still more to be done at the end of the first game of a planned trilogy constitutes too much of a cliffhanger for a lot of people.
ME's ending pretty much wraps up everything involved with the game. I don't think you can rightfully call something a cliffhanger just because it doesn't show you what to expect in the sequel.
Sheep on
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Waka LakaRiding the stuffed UnicornIf ya know what I mean.Registered Userregular
Who's game file is that? Kohler's?
Do we know what those "tokens" are?
Do we what know what 100% Game Completion refers to?
I'm just curious because like most people seem to recognize, most of the fun is probably going to come from collecting crazy shit and becoming an übermensch so you can destroying ugly monsters.
Whoever got 100% can't have collected every item in the game, could they?
And it seemed to me that the token numbers would be lit up if they had them, right?
I halfway want to see this game crash and burn miserably just to watch Dyack cry.
I remind myself that a dev team is much more then just that producer guy with a megaphone.
They'll be ok they know they are working in a notoriously tough industry. Anyone who gets into game making without planning on being unemployed every 24 months is lying to themselves.
The game's been designed as a multi-parter from the start, is anyone supposed to be surprised that the first game ends with a cliffhanger? The 10 hours is much too short, though.
Mass Effect is designed as a multi-part series but they don't use any dumb cliffhangers.
Yes but Mass Effect is like gaming mana from on high. We can't expect that type of quality from very many titles. We can want it and even crave it but there is no way we'll always get it.
Despite how good ME's ending was, I've still people call it a shitty cliffhanger that doesn't really resolve anything.
Shepard saying that the Reapers are still out there and that there's still work to be done seems to be a major sticking point. I guess saying that there's still more to be done at the end of the first game of a planned trilogy constitutes too much of a cliffhanger for a lot of people.
ME's ending pretty much wraps up everything involved with the game. I don't think you can rightfully call something a cliffhanger just because it doesn't show you what to expect in the sequel.
Well ME is a cliff hanger because it's like "We won... this small victory but we aren't outta the woods yet!"
But theres a big difference between ME's cliffhanger and like the Halo 2 cliffhanger.
I halfway want to see this game crash and burn miserably just to watch Dyack cry.
I remind myself that a dev team is much more then just that producer guy with a megaphone.
They'll be ok they know they are working in a notoriously tough industry. Anyone who gets into game making without planning on being unemployed every 24 months is lying to themselves.
I have had two years of guaranteed work so far and it has been pretty stable. I'm not kidding myself that it will last forever, but I had more trouble breaking in then staying employed.
As an aside, a guy at work used to work at SK on Twin Snakes, and apparently Dyack was notorious for chiming in his two cents and apparently had a difficult time with Kojima.
The game's been designed as a multi-parter from the start, is anyone supposed to be surprised that the first game ends with a cliffhanger? The 10 hours is much too short, though.
Mass Effect is designed as a multi-part series but they don't use any dumb cliffhangers.
Yes but Mass Effect is like gaming mana from on high. We can't expect that type of quality from very many titles. We can want it and even crave it but there is no way we'll always get it.
Despite how good ME's ending was, I've still people call it a shitty cliffhanger that doesn't really resolve anything.
Shepard saying that the Reapers are still out there and that there's still work to be done seems to be a major sticking point. I guess saying that there's still more to be done at the end of the first game of a planned trilogy constitutes too much of a cliffhanger for a lot of people.
ME's ending pretty much wraps up everything involved with the game. I don't think you can rightfully call something a cliffhanger just because it doesn't show you what to expect in the sequel.
Well ME is a cliff hanger because it's like "We won... this small victory but we aren't outta the woods yet!"
But theres a big difference between ME's cliffhanger and like the Halo 2 cliffhanger.
Or pretty much the first two installments of The Matrix.
Sheep on
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pyromaniac221this just might bean interestin YTRegistered Userregular
Don't know if this has been posted yet, but after seeing this video, I feel that Too Human could definitely live up to its AA hype.
That looks like the game I want, at least. Hack-and-slash loot hunt with simple controls and online co-op. Also, 10 hours for a "main quest" is about what I want these days.
I am a little concerned with the cliffhangerery. Like Tycho posted recently: The market decides whether Too Human is a trilogy. It probably would have been more appropriate to leave some issues unresolved while giving some closure, rather than end with "OMG WHAT HAPPENZ?!?!!11"
I said it a few pages ago and after seeing these videos the statement still stands: The animations in this game are abysmal. The combat AND cutscene animations both are surprisingly poor, and in a game about combat, about HITTING THINGS, if the animations don't sell the hits, the combat looks like shit, and the combat in Too Human looks like shit. And jesus christ, in that intro video of Baldur fighting the monster in the tavern, so SO many animations are laughably bad.
It's pathetic. A game is in development for this long and they can't make a weapon swing look right?
The only thing I see in that video that I don't like, besides some of the VA, is the run speed. Ouuuuuch.
Whiniest Man On Earth on
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Waka LakaRiding the stuffed UnicornIf ya know what I mean.Registered Userregular
edited July 2008
From GameSpy -
"Cooperative Too Human over Xbox Live differs from the single player campaign in a number of key ways. The story sequences have been stripped out entirely, removing all of the game's elaborate cut scenes and making for a more streamlined, action-oriented experience. Too Human also takes a page from Diablo's playbook, with randomized dungeons that stick to a standard overall design, but mix things up in terms of map layouts and creature variation. This way you can go through the same areas several times and experience different encounters on each run."
It's puzzling to think that Silicon Knights has been plugging away at Too Human for well over a decade now. Sure, it's been planned as epic stuff from the get go, back when it was a PlayStation title and boasted of a scope that would require four game discs over 80 hours of gameplay. It later became a GameCube title, a transition that obviously required much of its previous iteration to be scrapped.
But as I hacked my way through the Xbox 360 game's first six hours of the single player campaign — putting me at about half-way through, according to the game's own Stats ticker — I began to wonder what it was the team was doing with its time. Too Human seems surprisingly unpolished for a game that's been in some form of development for a decade, one due to be released in less than two months. Granted, the letter that accompanied our preview copy of Too Human did warn that our pre-release build was not "final retail code" and may have gameplay bugs that "will be addressed in the final retail game."
That was certainly taken into consideration as I completed Too Human's first two chapters, but some of the core issues I had with the game aren't the kinds of things that will likely be ironed out in the final thrust of development.
After going hands-on with Too Human for the first time at GDC, I was primarily concerned about the game's combat mechanics. They certainly take some getting used to. The player will use the right analog stick for melee attacks, simply pointing in the direction of the enemy to target it. While that may sound straightforward enough, being trained to use the right stick for aiming or camera control by previous action games may lead to some initial awkwardness.
You can spice up your attacks by lobbing robotic Goblins into the air with a double tap of the stick, keeping them aloft with gunfire, but that tactic felt largely pointless. As a Champion class character, bullets and laser-fire are no match for my hammer or sword, so I found myself doing it only out of obligation, occasionally an attempt to break the monotony.
It seemed more appropriate for me, as a Champion, to limit myself to melee combo chains and air attacks only, in an effort to raise my experience bonus and build up a cache of Ruiner moves — those screen clearing attacks that are accompanied by a light show and, later, a spirit animal (mine's a raven). This leads to same rather repetitive gameplay. Adding to that repetition was a limited bestiary, some rather mundane puzzle solving and long stretches of slogging through wave after wave of enemies.
Too Human isn't just about swordplay and shooting, it's about the hunt for loot. One of the more addictive aspects of titles like Diablo, World of Warcraft or Phantasy Star Online is the finding of something precious. Silicon Knights looks to have added loot in spades. There are swords, staves, pistols, rifles, leggings, helms and much much more to collect. You'll regularly find, buy and build stuff that's better than what you're currently equipped with.
The interface for dealing with your massive amounts of loot is handy. Items that have better stats than your current equipment are shown in yellow. Less favorable stats are listed in red. You'll be able to salvage your unwanted goods from any point, no trekking back to town to resell your outdated chest piece. Just hit the "Y" button. There's a hitch there, though, there's no going back to "town" until you're done with the quest at hand. That means item repairs will have to wait. There's also no way to stock up on health potions or green herbs or whatever one needs to heal their wounds. You'll have to settle for Health Orb drops.
That means, unless you're of the self-healing BioEngineer class, you might die. You might die a lot. My character, Shin, has died 23 times in six hours. That's 23 times I've had to watch the unskippable scene of a gleaming white Valkyrie descend from the heavens and revive me. Good thing there is almost no tangible penalty to death... or is that a bad thing?
You might consider your deaths bad if you expire because of the game's frustrating camera system. There are something like seven camera styles to choose from — like standard, near, far, iso and strategic — but all have their share of quirks. One can reset the camera with the left bumper, but at times the game will override your chosen camera angle or simply refuse to reset it to your liking.
There are plenty of rough edges in Too Human, from questionable interface choices to the oddly placed voiceover to some very unattractive graphics. Some of the game's visuals are strong, but others are just plain ugly. Too Human's mechanical beings look fine, but its flesh and blood humanoid characters can look downright ugly. Animation is stiff, lip synching is clumsy and never is the uncanny valley more present than in some of the game's cut scenes. Character models have obviously been given a great deal of detail, but even in the game's major players, faces have sharp angles and poorly rendered hair, visual blights that do a disservice to the games cinematic portions.
There's much more to be explored in Too Human. Obviously, there's the second half of the game's core campaign, the cooperative multiplayer mode and the game's five character classes. We'll have more hands-on impressions of these aspects of the game throughout the week.
I said it a few pages ago and after seeing these videos the statement still stands: The animations in this game are abysmal. The combat AND cutscene animations both are surprisingly poor, and in a game about combat, about HITTING THINGS, if the animations don't sell the hits, the combat looks like shit, and the combat in Too Human looks like shit. And jesus christ, in that intro video of Baldur fighting the monster in the tavern, so SO many animations are laughably bad.
It's pathetic. A game is in development for this long and they can't make a weapon swing look right?
Just opinions and all, but I think most of the in-game animations are adequate. Some are rather terrible (I just saw Baldur balance on top of a large enemy in another video, and the animation looks flat-out unfinished), but nothing I can't live with if the game makes up for it elsewhere. Looking back at this developer's last game: I found Eternal Darkness to be technically lacking in some areas, but I loved the total package.
But that intro...yeah, I totally agree. It's awful.
I find it kind of ridiculous that all these reviewers are doing speed runs on the game that is meant to be played further for more levels/loot, and than bitch about the game's length.
I have this feeling that it will end up like Eternal Darkness: a short game with loads of replay, great atmosphere/story and yet almost everyone will overlook it. Well I will wait till people on this board get to play it for more valued opinions (eToychest where art thou).
Everything I'm looking for in the game sounds like it's there. The lack of polish on some of the graphics is unfortunate, but the majority of those seem to be regarding cutscenes as opposed to the action. The loot, the online co-op, the neat different styles of weapons, the powers, the different classes, loads of replayability.
I honestly don't see it, and I didn't notice it being brought up in the previews.
Watch the gameplay video a few times. The character (Norse Marcus Fenix) is floating around like a figure skater, flailing randomly with a massive greatsword that must be made out of cardboard given how fast it's being swung. Even worse is the jumping. The character jumps, pauses in mid-air, then falls back to the ground awkwardly. Everything just seems really amateurish for a game that's supposed to be out right away. And don't even get me started on that cutscene released months ago. So hideously ugly.
They re-released the action cutscene with some tweaks. It sounds a TON better. The pistols don't sound like waterguns now. And Steve Blum (Spike Speigel from Cowboy Bebop) is a disgruntled villager! But they didn't do a damn thing about the animations.
They re-released the action cutscene with some tweaks. It sounds a TON better. The pistols don't sound like waterguns now. And Steve Blum (Spike Speigel from Cowboy Bebop) is a disgruntled villager! But they didn't do a damn thing about the animations.
Yeah, I just watched it again. The guns still have zero recoil, and his sword-use was laughable (when he cleaves the arm off, it looks like he's just holding his sword casually in the air in front of him, rather than pulling it back to, say, chop through several feet of steel). It still looks awful.
Don't know if this has been posted yet, but after seeing this video, I feel that Too Human could definitely live up to its AA hype.
That looked fantastic, all the drones flying about. I don't see what people are complaining about, the combat animations were distinct and moved well, the weapon felt like it had weight but was being swung by a superhuman (see how the 200 pound drones went flying?) which is exactly how it should be. Honestly I cannot wait to buy it and play the hell out of it.
And the character posted had 100% completion, but was only level 29. He still had 21 levels to gain, so even if progression is linear, he had at least another 12 hours to play with that character alone to reach max level. Consider that to get the best gear will require a few extra runs through at least at max level, and that there a multiple archetypes? We are talking 100s of hours of play to be truly complete.
Or did you naysayers say it was game over in Diablo as soon as you killed him once? Or quit WoW when you first beat Ragnaros.
I honestly don't see it, and I didn't notice it being brought up in the previews.
Watch the gameplay video a few times. The character (Norse Marcus Fenix) is floating around like a figure skater, flailing randomly with a massive greatsword that must be made out of cardboard given how fast it's being swung. Even worse is the jumping. The character jumps, pauses in mid-air, then falls back to the ground awkwardly. Everything just seems really amateurish for a game that's supposed to be out right away.
I went back and had a look, and I can see where your criticisms have come from now that I knew to look for them. I guess they just don't bother me. I'm not a hardcore gamer like I used to be, so I've not exactly kept up with stuff along the lines of Ninja Gaiden, etc which I imagine are the gold standard for action-heavy combat animations.
So, in terms of the game being successful, I imagine it'd come down to whether I'm the minority or not.
devoir on
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Waka LakaRiding the stuffed UnicornIf ya know what I mean.Registered Userregular
I honestly don't see it, and I didn't notice it being brought up in the previews.
Watch the gameplay video a few times. The character (Norse Marcus Fenix) is floating around like a figure skater, flailing randomly with a massive greatsword that must be made out of cardboard given how fast it's being swung. Even worse is the jumping. The character jumps, pauses in mid-air, then falls back to the ground awkwardly. Everything just seems really amateurish for a game that's supposed to be out right away. And don't even get me started on that cutscene released months ago. So hideously ugly.
From the Silicon Knights Website-
Job Page There are multiple job openings for artists. Please scroll down to see all listings.
Character Artist
Skills:
- Graduate of classical animation or illustration program preferred
- 3-D computer experience is an asset
- Experience in 3DS MAX and Photoshop is an asset
- Artistic portfolio required
MongerI got the ham stink.Dallas, TXRegistered Userregular
edited July 2008
So I guess it's looking like it's delivered on everything I feared it would and nothing that I hoped it would. I'm still holding out hope that there's something the previewers are missing that makes it not awful. I mean, I was in the camp that loved Assassin's Creed. Half-Life 2 has one of my favorite endings in a game, and I couldn't stand Mass Effect's closure. I guess that's not likely. I'd say I hope SK gets around to fixing the problems, but that's probably more unlikely.
I went back and had a look, and I can see where your criticisms have come from now that I knew to look for them. I guess they just don't bother me. I'm not a hardcore gamer like I used to be, so I've not exactly kept up with stuff along the lines of Ninja Gaiden, etc which I imagine are the gold standard for action-heavy combat animations.
Take a look at absolutely any media from Ninja Gaiden 1/2 or Devil May Cry 3/4. Both of those series are extremely kinetic, and the contrast between them and something like Too Human is staggering. You would be staggered by it. As a matter of fact, just watch the video at the bottom of this page. It's not just that there's weight to those blows, or that it looks fluid, but DMC is pretty particular about having animations that reflect personalities. Dante (stylish and powerful) moves very differently from Nero (brash and explosive) or Virgil (pretentious and condescending) or even his younger self (absurdly flashy), and it's all based on contrast between character designs. They have quirks in motion. Ninja Gaiden has much the same kind of attention put into its animation, but mostly to the extent of being as quick, precise, and brutal as possible. Ryu is a death machine and moves as such. Too Human has... Baldur contorting backwards when he slides like he's being pulled by a string attached to his stomach hard enough to break his spine?
As I said, I can see where you guys are coming from. It just didn't jump out at me like it appears to do with other people. The animations look better than any other action RPG I've played and the combat looks pretty fast and furious.
I'm not saying you guys are wrong, I'm just saying I'll probably enjoy it despite the animation issues. I tend to be easy to please in that regard. Star Wars prequel trilogy being a prime example.
Posts
Despite how good ME's ending was, I've still people call it a shitty cliffhanger that doesn't really resolve anything.
Shepard saying that the threat is still out there and that there's still work to be done seems to be a major sticking point. I guess saying that there's still more to be done at the end of the first game of a planned trilogy constitutes too much of a cliffhanger for a lot of people.
ME's ending pretty much wraps up everything involved with the game. I don't think you can rightfully call something a cliffhanger just because it doesn't show you what to expect in the sequel.
I think 10 hours seems a little average
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Do we know what those "tokens" are?
Do we what know what 100% Game Completion refers to?
I'm just curious because like most people seem to recognize, most of the fun is probably going to come from collecting crazy shit and becoming an übermensch so you can destroying ugly monsters.
Whoever got 100% can't have collected every item in the game, could they?
And it seemed to me that the token numbers would be lit up if they had them, right?
This game looks fun.
I remind myself that a dev team is much more then just that producer guy with a megaphone.
They'll be ok they know they are working in a notoriously tough industry. Anyone who gets into game making without planning on being unemployed every 24 months is lying to themselves.
Shogun Streams Vidya
But theres a big difference between ME's cliffhanger and like the Halo 2 cliffhanger.
I never asked for this!
As an aside, a guy at work used to work at SK on Twin Snakes, and apparently Dyack was notorious for chiming in his two cents and apparently had a difficult time with Kojima.
Or pretty much the first two installments of The Matrix.
Don't know if this has been posted yet, but after seeing this video, I feel that Too Human could definitely live up to its AA hype.
That looks like the game I want, at least. Hack-and-slash loot hunt with simple controls and online co-op. Also, 10 hours for a "main quest" is about what I want these days.
I am a little concerned with the cliffhangerery. Like Tycho posted recently: The market decides whether Too Human is a trilogy. It probably would have been more appropriate to leave some issues unresolved while giving some closure, rather than end with "OMG WHAT HAPPENZ?!?!!11"
It's pathetic. A game is in development for this long and they can't make a weapon swing look right?
"Cooperative Too Human over Xbox Live differs from the single player campaign in a number of key ways. The story sequences have been stripped out entirely, removing all of the game's elaborate cut scenes and making for a more streamlined, action-oriented experience. Too Human also takes a page from Diablo's playbook, with randomized dungeons that stick to a standard overall design, but mix things up in terms of map layouts and creature variation. This way you can go through the same areas several times and experience different encounters on each run."
Good times.
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UNDECIDED LEVELS UP
I was looking forward to some anachronistic-God-play.
Just opinions and all, but I think most of the in-game animations are adequate. Some are rather terrible (I just saw Baldur balance on top of a large enemy in another video, and the animation looks flat-out unfinished), but nothing I can't live with if the game makes up for it elsewhere. Looking back at this developer's last game: I found Eternal Darkness to be technically lacking in some areas, but I loved the total package.
But that intro...yeah, I totally agree. It's awful.
I am retaining an air of cautious optimism. I really want this game to be good, but so far all of the press impressions have left me worried.
I have this feeling that it will end up like Eternal Darkness: a short game with loads of replay, great atmosphere/story and yet almost everyone will overlook it. Well I will wait till people on this board get to play it for more valued opinions (eToychest where art thou).
Doesn't sound so much epic, more so it should have all been one game. Also, this game has the worst action cutscenes ever from what I've seen.
I really want to like this game though, as I still regularly play PSO for Gamecube.
Pokemon FC: 2749 7579 5931
Watch the gameplay video a few times. The character (Norse Marcus Fenix) is floating around like a figure skater, flailing randomly with a massive greatsword that must be made out of cardboard given how fast it's being swung. Even worse is the jumping. The character jumps, pauses in mid-air, then falls back to the ground awkwardly. Everything just seems really amateurish for a game that's supposed to be out right away. And don't even get me started on that cutscene released months ago. So hideously ugly.
All, "Check out this action cutscene devoid of any good action!"
Yeah, I just watched it again. The guns still have zero recoil, and his sword-use was laughable (when he cleaves the arm off, it looks like he's just holding his sword casually in the air in front of him, rather than pulling it back to, say, chop through several feet of steel). It still looks awful.
That looked fantastic, all the drones flying about. I don't see what people are complaining about, the combat animations were distinct and moved well, the weapon felt like it had weight but was being swung by a superhuman (see how the 200 pound drones went flying?) which is exactly how it should be. Honestly I cannot wait to buy it and play the hell out of it.
And the character posted had 100% completion, but was only level 29. He still had 21 levels to gain, so even if progression is linear, he had at least another 12 hours to play with that character alone to reach max level. Consider that to get the best gear will require a few extra runs through at least at max level, and that there a multiple archetypes? We are talking 100s of hours of play to be truly complete.
Or did you naysayers say it was game over in Diablo as soon as you killed him once? Or quit WoW when you first beat Ragnaros.
Yep. In all its awkward glory.
I went back and had a look, and I can see where your criticisms have come from now that I knew to look for them. I guess they just don't bother me. I'm not a hardcore gamer like I used to be, so I've not exactly kept up with stuff along the lines of Ninja Gaiden, etc which I imagine are the gold standard for action-heavy combat animations.
So, in terms of the game being successful, I imagine it'd come down to whether I'm the minority or not.
From the Silicon Knights Website-
Job Page There are multiple job openings for artists. Please scroll down to see all listings.
Character Artist
Skills:
- Graduate of classical animation or illustration program preferred
- 3-D computer experience is an asset
- Experience in 3DS MAX and Photoshop is an asset
- Artistic portfolio required
Hop to it.
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Take a look at absolutely any media from Ninja Gaiden 1/2 or Devil May Cry 3/4. Both of those series are extremely kinetic, and the contrast between them and something like Too Human is staggering. You would be staggered by it. As a matter of fact, just watch the video at the bottom of this page. It's not just that there's weight to those blows, or that it looks fluid, but DMC is pretty particular about having animations that reflect personalities. Dante (stylish and powerful) moves very differently from Nero (brash and explosive) or Virgil (pretentious and condescending) or even his younger self (absurdly flashy), and it's all based on contrast between character designs. They have quirks in motion. Ninja Gaiden has much the same kind of attention put into its animation, but mostly to the extent of being as quick, precise, and brutal as possible. Ryu is a death machine and moves as such. Too Human has... Baldur contorting backwards when he slides like he's being pulled by a string attached to his stomach hard enough to break his spine?
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
I'm not saying you guys are wrong, I'm just saying I'll probably enjoy it despite the animation issues. I tend to be easy to please in that regard. Star Wars prequel trilogy being a prime example.