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Valve Locks Out Imported Games

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Posts

  • MarlorMarlor Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    halkun wrote: »
    The company is out of thiland, and after you bought the game, you have the choice of getting the disc sent to you or the company would e-mail you the key sans disk.

    They do this with Steam games to eliminate shipping costs. They send you the key, then throw the box in the garbage. It's no different from you buying the game, saying "I don't need physical media", writing down the key, then throwing the media and packaging in the garbage.

    With Steam-enabled games, this is a perfectly legitimate thing to do. I wouldn't even know where my Half-Life or Half-Life 2 media are... I just bought the games, and typed the serial into Steam, then let it download.
    When the games started getting dropped from steam, the thai copany started asking for steam accounts telling the customer that they would activate the game in Thailand. This, I think, is strike number two.

    That does sound a little fishy... but I would guess it's just good intentions gone awry.
    The upshot is the Thai company was distributing the game though some really dodgy means to begin with. The fact they were only sending you only the key should of been a red flag.

    Zest may have been acting a little strange in this case, but I've bought more than a dozen games from them, and have had no issues. Usually, for PC games with bulky boxes and manuals, I get them to cut the serial number off the manual and ship that with the DVD case and media. I see nothing wrong with this, and I see nothing wrong with sending the key for Steam games either, since this is all you need.
    On top of this, if you actually bought the box, it says in plain english that it's not supposed to be sold outside Thailand.

    Those notices are totally invalid in many countries (Australia, for example), because they are considered an illegal restraint of trade. Australia's consumer watchdog looks down on that sort of thing.
    Buying just a key online is not a ligitmate copy.

    I don't see how it isn't. You are buying the boxed game, getting them to send you the serial off it, then getting them to throw the box and media in the bin. It's no different from buying the game, activating it on Steam, then throwing the box in the bin. Perfectly legal.

    Marlor on
    Mario Kart Wii: 1332-8060-5236 (Aaron)
  • FanciestWalnutFanciestWalnut Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    "Those notices are totally invalid in many countries (Australia, for example), because they are considered an illegal restraint of trade. Australia's consumer watchdog looks down on that sort of thing."



    Ok well if these notices ARE legal in the country where the game is made then whats wrong with them inforcing them?

    FanciestWalnut on
  • MarlorMarlor Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    "Those notices are totally invalid in many countries (Australia, for example), because they are considered an illegal restraint of trade. Australia's consumer watchdog looks down on that sort of thing."

    Ok well if these notices ARE legal in the country where the game is made then whats wrong with them inforcing them?

    That's where things get tricky. Enforcing the region-locks would be illegal in Australia, but in this case, the actual enforcement is done from the US. Yet the action affects Australia's consumers, who the Australian Trade Practices Act is meant to protect.

    Due to its international nature, region-locking is actually a difficult area for the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission to deal with. In the past, they have favoured (and promoted) circumvention measures rather than taking legal action... but this obviously isn't really possible with digital distribution systems like Steam.

    Marlor on
    Mario Kart Wii: 1332-8060-5236 (Aaron)
  • MarlorMarlor Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I'm seeing more and more reports from gamers on other forums that the region lock-out is now gone.

    It looks like Valve might have backed down. I guess they didn't expect this to be as big a deal as it has become.

    Marlor on
    Mario Kart Wii: 1332-8060-5236 (Aaron)
  • VelmeranVelmeran Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I'm worried about this trend too, I live in China and will be here another few years before heading back to the US, I've bought a few games here and so far no problems since I can usually change the language to english in the registry and I'm good to go (BF2142, NWN2).

    its understandable that the games be kept cheap here, $10 for BF2142, because I can buy just about anything for the equivalent of $1 from the illegal shops, which are nicely situated all over the place in the high tech districts.

    The problem with Regional codes and such is what if someone lives in a country only for a while, then moves? Does that invalidate all his media/software? For some reasons the companies who make money on this think its a great idea! Consumers are being screwed, but I doubt anything will change anytime soon since we all know software piracy is killing the next gen systems and that soon Sony, MS, and Nintendo will have to close their doors.

    Remember, when ever you masterbate to a stolen porn movie, god kills a kitten and one of the film crew.

    Velmeran on
    Vechloran.png
  • kaliyamakaliyama Left to find less-moderated fora Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    "Those notices are totally invalid in many countries (Australia, for example), because they are considered an illegal restraint of trade. Australia's consumer watchdog looks down on that sort of thing."



    Ok well if these notices ARE legal in the country where the game is made then whats wrong with them inforcing them?

    It doesn't matter where the game is made. It matters where the game is sold, and where the conduct of the seller has effect. So if Valve engages in these anticompetitive practices in Australia, and Australia wants to go after them, they certainly can.

    kaliyama on
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  • kaliyamakaliyama Left to find less-moderated fora Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Blaket wrote: »
    Blaket wrote: »
    Blaket wrote: »
    Why is buying from a different country not allowed though?

    It's like not being allowed to wear a pair of pants you paid for overseas.

    I am currently wearing hand made italian wool trousers, I paid about 100 dollars for them because I paid for the material and a pittance for labour because I had them made for me in thailand. In Australia the same pants would be $400+ should I not be allowed to wear them here?

    ... Im not even sure I should respond, the mark its way over that a-way.

    Respond, answer the question of why you can't buy something overseas and use it in your own country.

    Because unlike those pants you bought, digital media can be copied and easly manuplated. Even if I gave you the best reason in the world it wouldn't matter because quite simply, thats the way it is. Digital media has been region locked for a long time and it will most likely continue to be region locked for a long time.

    The activation key can't be though can it. And because of the security of the key it can't be used to activate the game on multiple computers it can't be copied (or reused really).


    Do we know this? Valve isn't going to go to these lengths to stop a handful of people from obtaining their game for a couple dollars cheaper.

    After reading the consumerist article I really have to laugh. These people went around rules set by the company that made the game and are then complaining when they cut off their service without a warning. This issue is less like buying pants in another country and taking them home because they are cheaper, and more like trying to have a pair of pants imported from another country because they are cheaper and then being angry when you are charged an import tax.

    Not really. See, an import tax is levied by a government - they have to have the consent of the governed, and a rational and equitable process, tempered by the WTO and other treaties, to craft this policy. Valve doesn't get to charge import taxes, governments do. This is private price discrimination at its finest; definitely not OK when you're worried about country of origin as the basis of discrimination.

    This isn't like trying to import a cheaper pair of pants and then being charged an import tax. This is like importing a cheaper pair of pants, being discovered by the manufacturer, who is enraged that they couldn't squeeze more $ out of you and proceeds to a) take off your pants and b) break your legs so you can't buy another pair of their pants.

    kaliyama on
    fwKS7.png?1
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2007
    From what I've heard, the reason they mention Russia a lot is because apparently the Orange Box sells for 10$ there so that people can actually afford it. Some shady companies/ebayers were basically buying up russian copies and hoping to make 400% profit off the sale.

    in short people knew what was coming. if it had been britons being locked out of a US copy, I would be mad, but the issue is that for once, those people that just take advantage of people are actually being dealt with and people are complaining :x

    why the fuck are people buying it retail anyway? just buy the fucker over Steam then back it up to a DVD using their own utilities.

    FyreWulff on
  • MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    kaliyama wrote: »
    Blaket wrote: »
    Blaket wrote: »
    Blaket wrote: »
    Why is buying from a different country not allowed though?

    It's like not being allowed to wear a pair of pants you paid for overseas.

    I am currently wearing hand made italian wool trousers, I paid about 100 dollars for them because I paid for the material and a pittance for labour because I had them made for me in thailand. In Australia the same pants would be $400+ should I not be allowed to wear them here?

    ... Im not even sure I should respond, the mark its way over that a-way.

    Respond, answer the question of why you can't buy something overseas and use it in your own country.

    Because unlike those pants you bought, digital media can be copied and easly manuplated. Even if I gave you the best reason in the world it wouldn't matter because quite simply, thats the way it is. Digital media has been region locked for a long time and it will most likely continue to be region locked for a long time.

    The activation key can't be though can it. And because of the security of the key it can't be used to activate the game on multiple computers it can't be copied (or reused really).


    Do we know this? Valve isn't going to go to these lengths to stop a handful of people from obtaining their game for a couple dollars cheaper.

    After reading the consumerist article I really have to laugh. These people went around rules set by the company that made the game and are then complaining when they cut off their service without a warning. This issue is less like buying pants in another country and taking them home because they are cheaper, and more like trying to have a pair of pants imported from another country because they are cheaper and then being angry when you are charged an import tax.

    Not really. See, an import tax is levied by a government - they have to have the consent of the governed, and a rational and equitable process, tempered by the WTO and other treaties, to craft this policy. Valve doesn't get to charge import taxes, governments do. This is private price discrimination at its finest; definitely not OK when you're worried about country of origin as the basis of discrimination.

    This isn't like trying to import a cheaper pair of pants and then being charged an import tax. This is like importing a cheaper pair of pants, being discovered by the manufacturer, who is enraged that they couldn't squeeze more $ out of you and proceeds to a) take off your pants and b) break your legs so you can't buy another pair of their pants.

    I would still wear pants out of spite... and legality.

    Anyway it's one of the nice downsides of digital distribution if it's locked to a system.

    Mblackwell on
    Music: The Rejected Applications | Nintendo Network ID: Mblackwell

  • MarlorMarlor Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    From what I've heard, the reason they mention Russia a lot is because apparently the Orange Box sells for 10$ there so that people can actually afford it. Some shady companies/ebayers were basically buying up russian copies and hoping to make 400% profit off the sale.

    I think shady people buying and reselling copies is a small issue. Personal importing is much more common. Plenty of Aussie gamers buy their PC games from Thailand, where they are much cheaper. I have done so in the past many times. I didn't do so in this case, because the (US) Steam price was half the Aussie boxed price anyway.

    Regardless of where it was bought, I don't see a problem.

    It's free trade. Companies take advantage of free trade all the time, why can't consumers?

    Marlor on
    Mario Kart Wii: 1332-8060-5236 (Aaron)
  • Zephyr_FateZephyr_Fate Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    I can't hate Valve for anything they do after the awesomeness that is the Orange Box. :(

    Zephyr_Fate on
  • DracilDracil Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Hmm, well the HL2 retail box I bought in Thailand for about $20 a few years ago seems to work fine.

    And yes, I actually lived there and now live in the US, so they have no excuse to invalidate my copy (heck, I'd probably be willing to go to small claims court over it if they did especially since the box does not say can only be USED in Thailand)

    Dracil on
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  • MarlorMarlor Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Dracil wrote: »
    Hmm, well the HL2 retail box I bought in Thailand for about $20 a few years ago seems to work fine.

    It appears that Valve backed down and re-enabled the games a little while ago.

    Hopefully it will stay that way.

    Marlor on
    Mario Kart Wii: 1332-8060-5236 (Aaron)
  • AselithAselith Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    From what I've heard, the reason they mention Russia a lot is because apparently the Orange Box sells for 10$ there so that people can actually afford it. Some shady companies/ebayers were basically buying up russian copies and hoping to make 400% profit off the sale.

    in short people knew what was coming. if it had been britons being locked out of a US copy, I would be mad, but the issue is that for once, those people that just take advantage of people are actually being dealt with and people are complaining :x

    why the fuck are people buying it retail anyway? just buy the fucker over Steam then back it up to a DVD using their own utilities.

    Because these unscrupulous sellers are playing all those copies of Orange Box? They were turning off paying customers access to the product they paid for. How is that dealing with the sellers? The sellers made their money so who cares what happens to the people who paid them. I'm sure they're playing the world's tiniest violin though. Possible a rendition of "My Heart Bleeds For You."

    Aselith on
  • Martin Lawrence OliverMartin Lawrence Oliver Registered User regular
    edited October 2007
    Valve isn't going to go to these lengths to stop a handful of people from obtaining their game for a couple dollars cheaper.

    After reading the consumerist article I really have to laugh. These people went around rules set by the company that made the game and are then complaining when they cut off their service without a warning. This issue is less like buying pants in another country and taking them home because they are cheaper, and more like trying to have a pair of pants imported from another country because they are cheaper and then being angry when you are charged an import tax.

    Being charged an import tax and having service completely cut off is hardly comparable. You can't really get around this. Don't worry, I like Valve too.

    Martin Lawrence Oliver on
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