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[WoW] Rogues: Theatricality and deception are powerful agents

MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS
edited September 2008 in MMO Extravaganza
ITT rogue discussion, also discussion about how Rentilius abandoned his rogue yet still posts here like he thinks he knows stuff, PSH.

Here is the old OP, chock full of information and butts:
Rentilius wrote: »
worstshopever.jpg

This is a fairly old post, but relevant.
Feel free to ask any questions to people like Wavechaser, and the like. I don't play WoW anymore.

This is not an end all post, I do not think I can make it as such. I just want to give you a broad overview.

Why would I make a rogue?
Control, damage, and a fantastic world PvP class. Ganking some feral druid who thinks he's badass when he as 15% hp is excellent. Bypassing content with a friendly druid who thinks your ass is cute is also quite fun.

If I want damage, I'd play a mage
Perhaps, but the damage a rogue offers is fun on demand burst damage so much so that it can become something you can rely on. Also, it's more fun then standing back spamming fireball. PVP is even more fun with as many tricks and aces a rogue has.

You can't gank in the expansion, people have like 10,000hp
You'll still be able to dish out some mean ganking damage. And abuse improved sap, which has been increased to 100% for 2 points. You'll be hard pessed to find a reason to not get it, unless you really like burning blinding powder faster than Azou goes through Big Macs.

You still haven't sold me, but fine, I bite. Tell me, what should I use for leveling?
All joking aside, you can really level anyway you want. From experience though, I'd shoot for your 31 point talent as quick as possible and get a nice pair of swords. You can actually go from a Wingblade to a Outlaw Sabre to a Jade Broadsword and Sword of Omen to a Vanquisher's sword to a Thrash Blade to Dal' Rends to BC content gear, or old MC style stuff. Swords are fantastic to level with.

What race should I be? undead, right?
Yes. Cannibilize reduces downtime grindng, underwater breathing is fun for escaping players (you'll be doing this a lot) and ganking (Imp sap + gnome + water = hilarity), and WoTF frees up a trinket slot.

But yeah, you can be any race but with the recent nerf to thistle tea, blood elf is looking pretty hot, too. But I like undead, even if we wear socks to war.

Explain to me the trees, because I am horrible

Assassination is something to make your finishers deadlier with stuff to generally increase your yellow damage's potential, be it combo point generation (Seal Fate, Mutilate) or increased damage (Imp Evis, Imp Kidney shot, Find Weakness)

Combat is basically white damage and energy management. Making things cost less energy, do more damage, and add to a weird tempo of energy (Combat potency, Adrenaline rush), or adding to your white AND yellow abilities potency, like, +to hit, + to offhand damage, +parry, +dodge, etc.

Subtlety is the utility and opener tree. It doesn't offer a lot of extra damage like Assassination or Combat does, so it also offers things to overall and boradly increase your damage. Deadliness, Sinister Calling, Shadowstep, all amazing talents. In a 20ass/0cbt/41Sub build, your damage will not be lacking, and your opening combo point generation will be fantastic. You will, by far, have your first 5 combo points faster than any build that doesn't go at least 30 points into subtlety, and usually those are the most important.

These are just overviews, if you have questions, I'll gladly answer them and update this guide.

You're a fag. How are rogues in PvP? I hear they bitch a lot.

Each spec you play with is different. With hemo, you'll have an astounding amount of control and reasonable damage and fantastic combo point generation, allowing for multiple finishers per fight.

With full combat, you will be more deadly out of stealth and be just a walking force to be reckoned with. Melee will cry, casters will bitch, and warlocks will post on forums about how you killed them in a stunlock.

With any dagger build, your modem will be your best friend, alongside crippling poison. A good ping and crippling are usually required for daggers, which explains the reasoning behind mutilate (a tad) REWARDING the player for doing something he'd ordinarily do.

The best build is the most fun build, and whichever you decide is a fun build is the best build. Personally, however, I am in a toss up between 31/0/30 and 30/0/31 - a 20 energy cheap shot (basically), or 5 combo points immediately is a tough decision for me.

The rogues that bitch a lot suffer delusions induced by a lack of available cooldowns, or are just not that great at the class, or are good at understanding what they need to do but their micromanagement is horrible.
There are just some classes, too, that are just insane to fight as certain specs. A combat rogue (exluding daggers) might not fare so well against a frost mage willing to burn cold snap, but will be far more comfortable taking on that warrior with 10,000 hp.

Some good tips for using daggers -
In a situation where he's crippled and you're not, run/jump through him. Don't dick around running around him, that takes time and could have you running around with full energy like an asshole for awhile.

When you're crippled and he's not, blind or vanish, depending on the fight.

I will go into class versus class details in this thread, but that task is gigantic.

I want more general tips, you convulsing asstard.
All I really know is that nova = blind. feared? break and blind before you eat an intercept. NS heal to full? Kill his faggy poison cleansing totem and searing totem and blind + bandage. Rogue open on you, but suck at stunlock? Blind. Druid runs into caster form and not cast abolish poison on himself? You get the picture. It's a way to get them to stay the fuck still. All your fearsome damage is done up close. Just need to use some control and know your energy.

Do not kidney shot if below 30/20 energy unless you have some way of getting back a good chunk of that energy. Use your energy ticks of timing for when your stun will run out. Use StunWatch if you're lazy.

Restealth when you can.

You need +10 energy in some manner or form if you want to truly stunlock. vigor, 1/2 dirty deeds, NS 5 piece bonus. use blind as a link between CS and gouge diminishing returns. An epic stunlock will, on live, do a LOT of damage. Level 63 rogues are able to 100->0 (Stunlock someone from full HP to no HP without them getting a shot in) by abusing blind.

You can get blinding powder and other poison stuff from junkboxes off of humanoid mobs.

Engineering is also amazing to link stunlocks, stop runners, and all around just a fun rogue profession.

More tips to be added as this is just going as a flow.

This isn't going anywhere, you should've had some outline

Yeah, well, you're a dick. I need you to ask questions and inspire me to put more stuff in the guide after going over with you personally about it.

Well, asshead, okay. If I do raid, what kind of shit can I expect?

What a wonderful question, I'll let one of those gays answer it for you.
Originally typed by that douchebag Unai
Well, unfortunately, Blizzard has decided to continue the trend of tier 4 to tier 5 by making every single class except for warlocks gheyer than tree droods (and making druids even gayer)How is that even possible? -Tyr.

The rogue tier 5 can only be described by a cross between Shredder from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and a slightly more chubby and flamboyant Skeletor from He-man. Also, blizzard hates Undead Rogues so they will continue to wear socks. Enjoy your future raiding rogue!

TO BE CONTINUED

Questions and answers
As you see it, would the ZG trinket make up the diff between a BE and a UD? Since the UD would have a free spot because of WoTF.
Both TT and the Trinket are nerfed. DEE COLON.

Certainly both are races that most casters will moan and complan about. It doesn't really answer your question, but know that I've broken fear and seduce a LOT and use cannabilize all the time. I'd say the diff between a BE and an UD is what classes they'll do well against.
Ive heard people say fists are better DPS than swords for combat. Your opinion? Also Maces yea or neah?

I've heard this spread about as common knowledge, but as I see it, it's just as good. An offhand sword can proc a MH spec. But, it resets the swing timer for the main hand. But, the neat thing I think is that, instead of attacking 1.0 seconds later, you attack that very second. It still gives you more hits than you would get with a fist-spec, although with the scaling down of crit gear, the +5 crit is going to be nice for raiding. The only way to check is to do some crazy math I'm not ready for yet. But with a Hand of Justice and sword spec, a GM quickblade and a nice MH sword and windfury, you'll just be OOZING white damage.

Maces are alright, they're not as bad as people say they are but mace spec is kinda on and off. It offers not really anything in terms of raiding anymore, even with the talent being merged into its own form of Weapon Expertise. And, as Jelu mentions, Fist spec is usually amazing, but I find that pure, unadulterated damage comes in the form of combat daggers. I look at other guild's damage meters and using their CD rogue is on top of the other rogues, but I'm sure someone in the thread will note some other anecdoctal evidence to claim otherwise.
As a combat rogue what kind of gear would I be looking for? Would it be different from a dagger rogues? same question visa-versa?
Whore your AP and hit. You want at least 12% before you go with crit. AP adds to all your damage, yellow and white. AP and hit with a bit of crit. You want a good balance of crit and hit and AP because a non-crit backstab for 700 will be better than a critical backstab of 1000.

Remember, a non-crit backstab is worse for you to get than a dodged backstab, which was the misinformed gripe about surprise attacks. As it was, people assumed a 1 tiered hit/crit/dodge thing. If it was dodged, then SA would say it hit, therefore it couldn't crit. But that's not how it works. It’s a two tiered system. It was a fine talent, but it’s still pretty good now.
is imp expose armor worth it? explain why?
Fuck yes, think of expose armor (improved) as a 35% increase in all damage done to the target as long as the debuff is there. It's necessary to dps down a holy priest obsessed with healing and getting through the mitigation of a shadow priest, for burning down a shaman or paladin, and just generally a fun little insult to use on mages.

Premed-CS->Expose->Gouge/Blind->Shadowstep->Ambush is a FUCKTON of protential damage.
Which is better DPS Shiv or Sinister Strike?
Hopefully I can be shed some more light on this but as it seems in a 41 talent point combat build, as long as you have a quick offhand and LOTS of poison and vile poison, shiv'll out damage SS. Why? Because shiv is yellow damage, so it has to be normalized, and it's normalized at 2.4 for AP. Also, it'll instaly apply your gay old instant poison. It really excells at high armor targets (dur, poison > armor), and adds combo points and costs less energy than SS, so even on low armor targets, the combo point gen from shiv'll make up for SS. I'm sure they'll do something to change it, but still, it's nice.
You said engineering is a good profession for rogues would you recommend any others considering the info youve collected in the beta.

Weaponsmithing for instance. being able to make and use those sick maces or swords. or Tailoring nets, jewelcrafting trinkets, etc.
Sure. There's a ton of options now and for me to suggest one would be presumptuous of how I think you should spend your money.

in reference to Azou's dumbassery
YOU ARE SO FUCKING WRONG!

But a lot of people misunderstand how the dual wield penalty works. If you dual wield, you have only an 85% chance to hit with both the mainhand and offhand before talents and gear. Your offhand also suffers a -50% to damage before talents. +15% to hit will allow you to attack a mob your same level and never miss with white damage. +23.9% hit will allow you to attack a level 63 mob and never miss with white damage. +5% will allow you to attack a mob your same level and never miss with yellow damage.

Over 50% of a rogues damage comes from white hits which is why PvE rogues enjoy stacking so much hit instead of crit.
With ordinary auto-attack ("white damage") weapon strikes, Dual Wielding adds an additional 19% to the attacker's miss rate. This penalty applies both to auto-attack strikes with the off-hand weapon and to auto-attack strikes with the main hand weapon. Since the base miss rate of all characters is 5%, dual-wielding will increase your miss rate to 24%(19%+5%).

(This applies when the target's Defense skill equals the attacker's weapon skill. For each point the target's Defense skill exceeds the attacker's weapon skill, the miss chance increases by 0.04%. For each point the attacker's Weapon skill exceeds the target's Defense skill, the miss chance decreases by 0.04%. See Formulas:Weapon Skill.)

Important note: Prior to version 1.8, dual wield's miss chance had a hard cap of 19%, meaning that all dual-wield auto-attacks had a minimum 19% miss chance regardless of how much +hit% gear was equipped. In version 1.8, this hard cap was removed. The exact wording of the 1.8 patch note was:

"Items which provide +hit chance will now be allowed to counteract the increased miss chance penalty of dual-wielding."

Take a rogue for example vs. a 63 monster, he has 5%+(0.04%*15)= 5.6% base miss chance (assuming he has 300 weapon skill and the monster has no special internal Defense skill bonuses), plus 19% dual wield miss chance, leaving us with a total miss chance of 24.6%.

Note that the +19% miss chance for dual-wielding only applies to ordinary auto-attack melee attacks. It does not apply to any special attack powers that cost rage, energy, or mana -- neither instant attacks such as Sinister Strike, nor on next swing attacks such as Heroic Strike, incur the dual wield miss penalty. So, with 6% +hit from gear/talents a dual-wielder will never miss with an instant attack (although the attack can still be dodged, parried, or blocked -- see the Attack table article). However, a dual-wielder would need 25% +hit if he wants to remove the miss chance for auto-attack/white damage totally.

Hey, look, shit about hitting and missing! Not sure if it's accurate, but...

http://evilempireguild.org/guides/attacks.php

I'm still bad! Your guide fucking sucks!
Watch some rogue videos, if you can find Ming's stuff, those are good.

Unsouled's videos are fantastic, and Nerf Sap 8 is good as well.




Give me some links, you talking red baboon-ass.

FINE. FINE. FUCK YOU.

http://roguecrap.blogspot.com/ Theorycraft for rogues. Updates regularly, but not daily.

http://www.worldofming.com Arrogant rogue, but useful. Offers in depth talent guides.

http://shadowpanther.net/ Incldues FR gear, NR gear, anything and a method of comparing gear, in case you can't decide if you like stormshroud over devilsaur.

Medopine on
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Posts

  • ForarForar #432 Already prepping for Toronto Fan Expo!Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Oboro wrote: »
    EDIT: WTB boss without threat table on which to unload this nonsense, also

    Shade of Aran.

    I beat him like he owes me money.

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  • Venkman90Venkman90 Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Forar wrote: »
    Oboro wrote: »
    EDIT: WTB boss without threat table on which to unload this nonsense, also

    Shade of Aran.

    I beat him like he owes me money.

    One of the things I miss about Kara, a mostly static caster boss, DPS race with no threat table (and if he did no reason to care) I can clos / bndg, get healed through most of his stuff, then sprint out on AE and back in. And being able to gank away on FW is nice too, by the time we quit Kara with mains we were usually taking him down way before he Poly'd.

  • HalfmexHalfmex Matter of fact... I didn't even give you my coat!Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Forar wrote: »
    Oboro wrote: »
    EDIT: WTB boss without threat table on which to unload this nonsense, also

    Shade of Aran.

    I beat him like he owes me money.
    Word. One of the few fights we melees don't get hosed on.

  • ForarForar #432 Already prepping for Toronto Fan Expo!Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    @Venkman90: Well, the crew I run with holds a weekly "PuG" (mostly alts and apps) Karazhan on Saturdays. It's treated us pretty well the past few weeks, 3-4 hour clears, they usually nab one of their better geared (read: 16-20k health O.O) tanks, a 'main' dps'er that wants an enchant or two, and a bunch of alts and apps. Shit dies, people gear up, and it's usually a pretty good time.

    I've been taking my poorly geared Paladin in for a few months now, who is (I believe) now Revered, went from a few greens and mid to high 60's blues (healing gear), to almost full epic healing gear, and has snagged a few tanking pieces as well. (I have no interest in going 'lawl-ret', so I ignore dps stuff for now)

    It's not a bad way to get something done on an off night, of which hopefully we'll have many, now that BT and Hyjal are collectively 3 nights for them.

    In other news; 1 death through 32 trash waves and 4 bosses last night in Hyjal. Booyah!

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  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Henroid wrote: »
    I'm looking at the 2.3 patch notes, and I could've sworn there was a change coming to the Dirty Deeds talent but I'm not seeing it. Am I going crazy?

    Patch notes aren't complete and they left quite a few things out. Dirty Deeds is getting the aforementioned buff.

    PierceNeck wrote: »
    People still do the anal thing?
  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    so, level 62. which way should I go first, combat and then work my way down to hemo, or or the other way around?

  • MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2007
    Oh ho ho, Rent's back on the stabby train!

  • OboroOboro __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2007
    got my Abacus of Violent Odds, dinged Exalted with Aldor to unlock the improved inscription and Vindicator's Brand, farmed a few more Badges of Justice (hard with all 5-man blues, but running with guildmates makes it possible)

    I think I am on schedule to respec with 2.3, even if it won't yet be The Burstest Burst

    but goddamn, am I going to thrash things

    just thrash 'em

    words
  • tehmarkentehmarken BrooklynRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Ok, my guildies have convinced me to roll hordeside (we have a dual-faction guild) and I want to do a rogue. Not really sure which race I wanna do though, I'm thinkinh undead or blood elf. Do their racials make any major difference?

  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    how's this for a rogue build? levelling on a pvp server, which is the main reason for imp sprint :P
    also, how important is 2/2 weapon expertise?

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  • FrylockHolmesFrylockHolmes Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    weapon expertise really isn't necessary unless you're raiding

  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    well, isn't it going to be changed with the weapon skill change in 2.3? also, what exactly does it do?

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  • DarkstrykeDarkstryke Registered User
    edited November 2007
    Increases weapon skill right? More +hit then. My guess for 2.3? It becomes an increase to expertise.

  • RamiRami Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    It will become Expertise though in 2.3 won't it?

    And that's really useful (reduces chance opponent will block, dodge or parry your attacks).

    I can't wait to stack enough expertise so as I never have to see another fucking backstab dodged. Seriously it happens like 20% of the time in raiding.

    Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549 AC:NL Trading List
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  • FrylockHolmesFrylockHolmes Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    i thought weapon skill already did that

    does expertise just cut out some of the other things weapon skill does and jack up the lowering of your opponent's defenses?

    shit I need to stop giving advice now that I'm not playing or paying attention to shit any more

  • RamiRami Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Yes

    For each point of weapon skill above opponents defence.

    * Your chance to miss decreases by 0.04%.
    * Your chance to score a critical hit increases by 0.04%.
    * Your opponent's chance to block your attack decreases by 0.04%.
    * Your opponent's chance to parry your attack decreases by 0.04%.
    * Your opponent's chance to dodge your attack decreases by 0.04%.

    But you need 16+ weapon skill before you got that benefit against a raid boss.

    Expertise is a much larger contribution.

    1 point of expertise reduces the chance for your attack to be dodged/parried by 0.25%. This means a mere 20 expertise reduces the enemies chance to dodge/parry by 5%, regardless of their defence level.

    It should be pretty easy to wipe out a bosses chance to dodge/parry completely. Especially when you consider rogue's weapon expertise talent will already give you 2.5% dodge/parry reduction.

    It's a pretty useful PVP stat as well, casters still have a base 5% dodge chance that can be eliminated with this, and a rogue, pally, warrior or shaman without the right talent only has a 5% parry chance as well, and that can be eliminated.

    Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549 AC:NL Trading List
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  • SvidrigailovSvidrigailov Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Rami wrote: »
    Yes

    For each point of weapon skill above opponents defence.

    * Your chance to miss decreases by 0.04%.
    * Your chance to score a critical hit increases by 0.04%.
    * Your opponent's chance to block your attack decreases by 0.04%.
    * Your opponent's chance to parry your attack decreases by 0.04%.
    * Your opponent's chance to dodge your attack decreases by 0.04%.

    But you need 16+ weapon skill before you got that benefit against a raid boss.

    Expertise is a much larger contribution.

    1 point of expertise reduces the chance for your attack to be dodged/parried by 0.25%. This means a mere 20 expertise reduces the enemies chance to dodge/parry by 5%, regardless of their defence level.

    It should be pretty easy to wipe out a bosses chance to dodge/parry completely. Especially when you consider rogue's weapon expertise talent will already give you 2.5% dodge/parry reduction.

    It's a pretty useful PVP stat as well, casters still have a base 5% dodge chance that can be eliminated with this, and a rogue, pally, warrior or shaman without the right talent only has a 5% parry chance as well, and that can be eliminated.
    In 2.0 weaponskill's affect on crit was changed to either 0.1% or 0.14%, I can't remember which right now. And against higher-level mobs the first ten points is worth much more; against a raidboss that first 10 gives 3% hit. Basically, weaponskill is dumb and thank god they're replacing it with a stat that's very easy to assign a relative value.

    Neither the whole of truth nor the whole of good is revealed to any single observer, although each observer gains a partial superiority of insight from the peculiar position in which he stands. It is enough to ask of each of us that he should be faithful to his own opportunities and make the most of his own blessings, without presuming to regulate the rest of the vast field.
  • RamiRami Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Yeah I cba deciphering the new one so I just pulled the old formula from the wiki, it probably works out about the same when average out anyway. And it's going soon so it's irrelevant.

    Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549 AC:NL Trading List
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  • OboroOboro __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2007
    So, I'm going to be trying out the 0/31/30 build from elitistjerks that says beyond a point of inflection, 5/5 Deadliness becomes more valuable than 5/5 Malice. Normally, I put no value whatsoever on attack power since I've been specced Mutilate-- now, though, the times, they are-a changin'!

    I just got my first Heroic Epic tonight-- the legs from Slave Pen. There's a whopping three sockets here to play with, and without changing a dang thing my +hit is 221. This is with, let's see, 7.5 slots not dedicated to +hit-- just resocketing could push that as high as 281, but after my respec that would place my crit% somewhere near 14% unbuffed.

    To offset, even while I've been at 20% crit, I've been using the Darkmoon Card: Wrath to provide a fulcrum on which to balance my gear. As I sacrifice small pieces of crit for other stats, around a certain point of inflection, the card adequately compensates by increasing its relative worth. Once I move to a 1.4/1.5 speed OH (Latro's or a Quickblade, failing that), this point of inflection gets pushed further but I'm still going to want about 17% crit unbuffed-- this value, again, sinks as I start to get ZA/new Badge gear, which swaps +crit for +haste--

    the cumulative effect of which, alongside the Darkmoon Card, is that the value of the trinket gets pushed further up because each cycle of build-up and eventual crit becomes accelerated-- the actual DPS doesn't change overly much in a raid setting, but the point of inflection gets pushed further left because my crits are normalizing to a greater rate as my OH speed increases. This stacks wonderfully, too, with Sword Spec.

    I haven't crunched the actual numbers yet because the numbers for an unbounded cycle like the trinket are a bitch to do with any amount of accuracy, but the spec and gear set-up I'm aiming for should put its approximate value to more than +70 crit rating in a PvE setting.

    Which is, of course, patently absurd.

    Blizzard does me a favor here because all of the +haste gear I'll be collecting has all of its item points spent on raw stats, the +haste, and very favorable raw +AP. The amount of white damage, when coupled with Hemo and absolutely ridiculous Ruptures, and slightly-less ridiculous Preparation bursts, should work out well. I don't know. I'm not an elitistjerk.

    I definitely feel like one, though! :)

    words
  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    yeah i love that build.

  • OboroOboro __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2007
    that is the layman's response to sweet dee pee ess

    a real new wave rogue uses words like 'point of inflection' and 'maths'

    when I do calculations I don't use add-ons

    I use a goddamn adding machine that prints onto a tiny spool of paper that I later rip off and throw out because who the fuck cares about these numbers but me

    words
  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    tehmarken wrote: »
    Ok, my guildies have convinced me to roll hordeside (we have a dual-faction guild) and I want to do a rogue. Not really sure which race I wanna do though, I'm thinkinh undead or blood elf. Do their racials make any major difference?

    Undead have Cannibalism and WoTF, which are probably the best racials of any Horde race, but Blood Elves do get Mana Tap and an AoE silence that gives mana/energy back for each tap currently active. It's pretty effective in emergency situations where you need energy in a pinch, and the AoE silence is nice.

    If you don't care about anything but racials, I'd say undead without a doubt. Cannibalism virtually eliminates all downtime, and I'm sure I don't have to explain the advantages of having WoTF. As far as appearance is concerned, I think Blood Elves are a lot cooler looking and so I rolled a BE Rogue, but I yearn for the UD racials.

    JKKaAGp.png
  • OboroOboro __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2007
    imo if you are having downtime at any point even without cannibalism you are doing something wrong

    I went through bandages at a rate leaving me zero cloth to sell until mobs were dropping runecloth, but I can't remember a moment where bandaging every few mobs was not enough

    words
  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    man i used to do that theory crafting garbage so long ago

  • MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2007
    What do you want, a cookie?

  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
  • OboroOboro __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2007
    I want a cookie too :cry:

    words
  • Bobkins FlymoBobkins Flymo The Positive Perspective Registered User, Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited November 2007
    Emodaggers will be ready for 2.3 leveling. Joke is OLD, Medo. You thief.

    GOr07uA.gif
  • MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2007
  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    tehmarken wrote: »
    Ok, my guildies have convinced me to roll hordeside (we have a dual-faction guild) and I want to do a rogue. Not really sure which race I wanna do though, I'm thinkinh undead or blood elf. Do their racials make any major difference?

    Undead have Cannibalism and WoTF, which are probably the best racials of any Horde race, but Blood Elves do get Mana Tap and an AoE silence that gives mana/energy back for each tap currently active. It's pretty effective in emergency situations where you need energy in a pinch, and the AoE silence is nice.

    If you don't care about anything but racials, I'd say undead without a doubt. Cannibalism virtually eliminates all downtime, and I'm sure I don't have to explain the advantages of having WoTF. As far as appearance is concerned, I think Blood Elves are a lot cooler looking and so I rolled a BE Rogue, but I yearn for the UD racials.

    If you ever plan on Arena'ing with your Rogue, I'd suggest Blood Elf. It has made the difference between win and lose having that extra silence on hand and ready when that paladin starts casting yet another heal while KS and kick are on cooldown.

    PierceNeck wrote: »
    People still do the anal thing?
  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    fuck blood elf
    undead priest + undead rogue = no ever having to worry about fear again

  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    no fuck you.

    PierceNeck wrote: »
    People still do the anal thing?
  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Simi Valley, CARegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I'm jealous of the BE racial.

  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Man, rogues have been the one class that I've not ever considered playing again(after my very first character, who got to 36), but the hemo change seems really hot. Having oodles of combo points is a very good thing so I'm not constantly using the same 2 skills, and now it won't be at the cost of decent or good damage.

    rodq.jpg
  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Oboro wrote: »
    So, I'm going to be trying out the 0/31/30 build from elitistjerks that says beyond a point of inflection, 5/5 Deadliness becomes more valuable than 5/5 Malice. Normally, I put no value whatsoever on attack power since I've been specced Mutilate-- now, though, the times, they are-a changin'!

    I've played with the calculator regarding this, but I'm still sticking with Malice. The damage difference is so negligible that it really is more about preference than anything. I'm a crit whore, and I like to see big numbers, so I'm going to stick with my sexy Malice. I also don't like blowing a point in heightened senses in order to get to deadliness, especially when I would rather have that used as a second point in Expertise, making it a 5,32,24 build as opposed to 0,31,30

    But like I said, the damage ranges are so damn close that it really will work well either way. Once I reach about 1650 unbuffed AP I will probably switch to Deadliness, by then the difference will start to show more.

    Edit, Also, the deadliness buff is more of an advantage in a pvp setting against characters with 200 or more resilience. So the 5,32,24 build will be more damage almost all the time in a non-pvp setting against 0 resilience targets.

    PierceNeck wrote: »
    People still do the anal thing?
  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    tehmarken wrote: »
    Ok, my guildies have convinced me to roll hordeside (we have a dual-faction guild) and I want to do a rogue. Not really sure which race I wanna do though, I'm thinkinh undead or blood elf. Do their racials make any major difference?

    Undead have Cannibalism and WoTF, which are probably the best racials of any Horde race, but Blood Elves do get Mana Tap and an AoE silence that gives mana/energy back for each tap currently active. It's pretty effective in emergency situations where you need energy in a pinch, and the AoE silence is nice.

    If you don't care about anything but racials, I'd say undead without a doubt. Cannibalism virtually eliminates all downtime, and I'm sure I don't have to explain the advantages of having WoTF. As far as appearance is concerned, I think Blood Elves are a lot cooler looking and so I rolled a BE Rogue, but I yearn for the UD racials.

    If you ever plan on Arena'ing with your Rogue, I'd suggest Blood Elf. It has made the difference between win and lose having that extra silence on hand and ready when that paladin starts casting yet another heal while KS and kick are on cooldown.

    True, the silence has saved my life more than once, by I think when it comes to the 1-70 grind Cannibalism wins out. Of course it comes down to personal preference since they both have nice racials.

    JKKaAGp.png
  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Septus wrote: »
    Man, rogues have been the one class that I've not ever considered playing again(after my very first character, who got to 36), but the hemo change seems really hot. Having oodles of combo points is a very good thing so I'm not constantly using the same 2 skills, and now it won't be at the cost of decent or good damage.

    You sound like my brother he deleted his rogue for a feral druid
    I have beat up some of his characters with my blood elf rogue and he still states fuck rogues

    I am tempted to go hemo but I am going to try it on either my troll or blood elf and see how it goes before my night elf does it

    A.jpg
  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    cloak of shadows is awesome.

  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    cloak of skill

    PierceNeck wrote: »
    People still do the anal thing?
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    cloak of clothies? roadbumps!

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