For each point of weapon skill above opponents defence.
* Your chance to miss decreases by 0.04%.
* Your chance to score a critical hit increases by 0.04%.
* Your opponent's chance to block your attack decreases by 0.04%.
* Your opponent's chance to parry your attack decreases by 0.04%.
* Your opponent's chance to dodge your attack decreases by 0.04%.
But you need 16+ weapon skill before you got that benefit against a raid boss.
Expertise is a much larger contribution.
1 point of expertise reduces the chance for your attack to be dodged/parried by 0.25%. This means a mere 20 expertise reduces the enemies chance to dodge/parry by 5%, regardless of their defence level.
It should be pretty easy to wipe out a bosses chance to dodge/parry completely. Especially when you consider rogue's weapon expertise talent will already give you 2.5% dodge/parry reduction.
It's a pretty useful PVP stat as well, casters still have a base 5% dodge chance that can be eliminated with this, and a rogue, pally, warrior or shaman without the right talent only has a 5% parry chance as well, and that can be eliminated.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
For each point of weapon skill above opponents defence.
* Your chance to miss decreases by 0.04%.
* Your chance to score a critical hit increases by 0.04%.
* Your opponent's chance to block your attack decreases by 0.04%.
* Your opponent's chance to parry your attack decreases by 0.04%.
* Your opponent's chance to dodge your attack decreases by 0.04%.
But you need 16+ weapon skill before you got that benefit against a raid boss.
Expertise is a much larger contribution.
1 point of expertise reduces the chance for your attack to be dodged/parried by 0.25%. This means a mere 20 expertise reduces the enemies chance to dodge/parry by 5%, regardless of their defence level.
It should be pretty easy to wipe out a bosses chance to dodge/parry completely. Especially when you consider rogue's weapon expertise talent will already give you 2.5% dodge/parry reduction.
It's a pretty useful PVP stat as well, casters still have a base 5% dodge chance that can be eliminated with this, and a rogue, pally, warrior or shaman without the right talent only has a 5% parry chance as well, and that can be eliminated.
In 2.0 weaponskill's affect on crit was changed to either 0.1% or 0.14%, I can't remember which right now. And against higher-level mobs the first ten points is worth much more; against a raidboss that first 10 gives 3% hit. Basically, weaponskill is dumb and thank god they're replacing it with a stat that's very easy to assign a relative value.
Svidrigailov on
Neither the whole of truth nor the whole of good is revealed to any single observer, although each observer gains a partial superiority of insight from the peculiar position in which he stands. It is enough to ask of each of us that he should be faithful to his own opportunities and make the most of his own blessings, without presuming to regulate the rest of the vast field.
Yeah I cba deciphering the new one so I just pulled the old formula from the wiki, it probably works out about the same when average out anyway. And it's going soon so it's irrelevant.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
So, I'm going to be trying out the 0/31/30 build from elitistjerks that says beyond a point of inflection, 5/5 Deadliness becomes more valuable than 5/5 Malice. Normally, I put no value whatsoever on attack power since I've been specced Mutilate-- now, though, the times, they are-a changin'!
I just got my first Heroic Epic tonight-- the legs from Slave Pen. There's a whopping three sockets here to play with, and without changing a dang thing my +hit is 221. This is with, let's see, 7.5 slots not dedicated to +hit-- just resocketing could push that as high as 281, but after my respec that would place my crit% somewhere near 14% unbuffed.
To offset, even while I've been at 20% crit, I've been using the Darkmoon Card: Wrath to provide a fulcrum on which to balance my gear. As I sacrifice small pieces of crit for other stats, around a certain point of inflection, the card adequately compensates by increasing its relative worth. Once I move to a 1.4/1.5 speed OH (Latro's or a Quickblade, failing that), this point of inflection gets pushed further but I'm still going to want about 17% crit unbuffed-- this value, again, sinks as I start to get ZA/new Badge gear, which swaps +crit for +haste--
the cumulative effect of which, alongside the Darkmoon Card, is that the value of the trinket gets pushed further up because each cycle of build-up and eventual crit becomes accelerated-- the actual DPS doesn't change overly much in a raid setting, but the point of inflection gets pushed further left because my crits are normalizing to a greater rate as my OH speed increases. This stacks wonderfully, too, with Sword Spec.
I haven't crunched the actual numbers yet because the numbers for an unbounded cycle like the trinket are a bitch to do with any amount of accuracy, but the spec and gear set-up I'm aiming for should put its approximate value to more than +70 crit rating in a PvE setting.
Which is, of course, patently absurd.
Blizzard does me a favor here because all of the +haste gear I'll be collecting has all of its item points spent on raw stats, the +haste, and very favorable raw +AP. The amount of white damage, when coupled with Hemo and absolutely ridiculous Ruptures, and slightly-less ridiculous Preparation bursts, should work out well. I don't know. I'm not an elitistjerk.
that is the layman's response to sweet dee pee ess
a real new wave rogue uses words like 'point of inflection' and 'maths'
when I do calculations I don't use add-ons
I use a goddamn adding machine that prints onto a tiny spool of paper that I later rip off and throw out because who the fuck cares about these numbers but me
Ok, my guildies have convinced me to roll hordeside (we have a dual-faction guild) and I want to do a rogue. Not really sure which race I wanna do though, I'm thinkinh undead or blood elf. Do their racials make any major difference?
Undead have Cannibalism and WoTF, which are probably the best racials of any Horde race, but Blood Elves do get Mana Tap and an AoE silence that gives mana/energy back for each tap currently active. It's pretty effective in emergency situations where you need energy in a pinch, and the AoE silence is nice.
If you don't care about anything but racials, I'd say undead without a doubt. Cannibalism virtually eliminates all downtime, and I'm sure I don't have to explain the advantages of having WoTF. As far as appearance is concerned, I think Blood Elves are a lot cooler looking and so I rolled a BE Rogue, but I yearn for the UD racials.
imo if you are having downtime at any point even without cannibalism you are doing something wrong
I went through bandages at a rate leaving me zero cloth to sell until mobs were dropping runecloth, but I can't remember a moment where bandaging every few mobs was not enough
Ok, my guildies have convinced me to roll hordeside (we have a dual-faction guild) and I want to do a rogue. Not really sure which race I wanna do though, I'm thinkinh undead or blood elf. Do their racials make any major difference?
Undead have Cannibalism and WoTF, which are probably the best racials of any Horde race, but Blood Elves do get Mana Tap and an AoE silence that gives mana/energy back for each tap currently active. It's pretty effective in emergency situations where you need energy in a pinch, and the AoE silence is nice.
If you don't care about anything but racials, I'd say undead without a doubt. Cannibalism virtually eliminates all downtime, and I'm sure I don't have to explain the advantages of having WoTF. As far as appearance is concerned, I think Blood Elves are a lot cooler looking and so I rolled a BE Rogue, but I yearn for the UD racials.
If you ever plan on Arena'ing with your Rogue, I'd suggest Blood Elf. It has made the difference between win and lose having that extra silence on hand and ready when that paladin starts casting yet another heal while KS and kick are on cooldown.
Man, rogues have been the one class that I've not ever considered playing again(after my very first character, who got to 36), but the hemo change seems really hot. Having oodles of combo points is a very good thing so I'm not constantly using the same 2 skills, and now it won't be at the cost of decent or good damage.
So, I'm going to be trying out the 0/31/30 build from elitistjerks that says beyond a point of inflection, 5/5 Deadliness becomes more valuable than 5/5 Malice. Normally, I put no value whatsoever on attack power since I've been specced Mutilate-- now, though, the times, they are-a changin'!
I've played with the calculator regarding this, but I'm still sticking with Malice. The damage difference is so negligible that it really is more about preference than anything. I'm a crit whore, and I like to see big numbers, so I'm going to stick with my sexy Malice. I also don't like blowing a point in heightened senses in order to get to deadliness, especially when I would rather have that used as a second point in Expertise, making it a 5,32,24 build as opposed to 0,31,30
But like I said, the damage ranges are so damn close that it really will work well either way. Once I reach about 1650 unbuffed AP I will probably switch to Deadliness, by then the difference will start to show more.
Edit, Also, the deadliness buff is more of an advantage in a pvp setting against characters with 200 or more resilience. So the 5,32,24 build will be more damage almost all the time in a non-pvp setting against 0 resilience targets.
Ok, my guildies have convinced me to roll hordeside (we have a dual-faction guild) and I want to do a rogue. Not really sure which race I wanna do though, I'm thinkinh undead or blood elf. Do their racials make any major difference?
Undead have Cannibalism and WoTF, which are probably the best racials of any Horde race, but Blood Elves do get Mana Tap and an AoE silence that gives mana/energy back for each tap currently active. It's pretty effective in emergency situations where you need energy in a pinch, and the AoE silence is nice.
If you don't care about anything but racials, I'd say undead without a doubt. Cannibalism virtually eliminates all downtime, and I'm sure I don't have to explain the advantages of having WoTF. As far as appearance is concerned, I think Blood Elves are a lot cooler looking and so I rolled a BE Rogue, but I yearn for the UD racials.
If you ever plan on Arena'ing with your Rogue, I'd suggest Blood Elf. It has made the difference between win and lose having that extra silence on hand and ready when that paladin starts casting yet another heal while KS and kick are on cooldown.
True, the silence has saved my life more than once, by I think when it comes to the 1-70 grind Cannibalism wins out. Of course it comes down to personal preference since they both have nice racials.
Man, rogues have been the one class that I've not ever considered playing again(after my very first character, who got to 36), but the hemo change seems really hot. Having oodles of combo points is a very good thing so I'm not constantly using the same 2 skills, and now it won't be at the cost of decent or good damage.
You sound like my brother he deleted his rogue for a feral druid
I have beat up some of his characters with my blood elf rogue and he still states fuck rogues
I am tempted to go hemo but I am going to try it on either my troll or blood elf and see how it goes before my night elf does it
Was top for most of VR (poison and blees immune so not sure how...) We can gank the adds with clos on al'ar and Solarian is just Aran with some mates (with priests that need interupting), nice to feel wanted
;-)
Oh and 2.3 changes for win, wonderfull and happypie
Melee win on VR because they get to stab away without a care in the world, while the casters have to actually pay attention to their screen.
(<- Rogue)
Svidrigailov on
Neither the whole of truth nor the whole of good is revealed to any single observer, although each observer gains a partial superiority of insight from the peculiar position in which he stands. It is enough to ask of each of us that he should be faithful to his own opportunities and make the most of his own blessings, without presuming to regulate the rest of the vast field.
Basically, what do you think will give the most damage; a passive +5% crit or Adrenaline Rush every 5 minutes (and twice in a row every 10 with prep).
I think AR might end up more as long as it's used whenever it's up, but an extra 5% chance to double your damage does sound like a lot.
Personally I'd go with the AR, you will probably (overall in solo PvE) dish out more damage with the +crit, but Blade Flurry + Ar is almost too fun to pass up. And throw in a prep and you get to do it all the damn time.
There are only two classes that can use it, unless it's class restricted (no, I'm not counting Hunters), so I wouldn't really have a problem with it.
It's not like it's vital to 5 or 9 classes and only obtainable by Rogues.
Also; the number of alt rogues between 60 and 70 on my server is simply staggering, so amongst them it's not like "rogues" (as in, mains) would have an utter strangelhold on the market.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Right I understand that, but that won't stop the massive outcry of injustice that will surely follow, which Blizzard actually seems to pay attention to. I mean, look at Hunters.
It's 100% real, lots of screens of it by the guy. He got it from a junkbox, and it's lots better for PvE than any other thrown weapon in the game (Thrown from black temple closest with 23 agi and 16 crit). Pretty insane.
Posts
does expertise just cut out some of the other things weapon skill does and jack up the lowering of your opponent's defenses?
shit I need to stop giving advice now that I'm not playing or paying attention to shit any more
For each point of weapon skill above opponents defence.
* Your chance to miss decreases by 0.04%.
* Your chance to score a critical hit increases by 0.04%.
* Your opponent's chance to block your attack decreases by 0.04%.
* Your opponent's chance to parry your attack decreases by 0.04%.
* Your opponent's chance to dodge your attack decreases by 0.04%.
But you need 16+ weapon skill before you got that benefit against a raid boss.
Expertise is a much larger contribution.
1 point of expertise reduces the chance for your attack to be dodged/parried by 0.25%. This means a mere 20 expertise reduces the enemies chance to dodge/parry by 5%, regardless of their defence level.
It should be pretty easy to wipe out a bosses chance to dodge/parry completely. Especially when you consider rogue's weapon expertise talent will already give you 2.5% dodge/parry reduction.
It's a pretty useful PVP stat as well, casters still have a base 5% dodge chance that can be eliminated with this, and a rogue, pally, warrior or shaman without the right talent only has a 5% parry chance as well, and that can be eliminated.
I just got my first Heroic Epic tonight-- the legs from Slave Pen. There's a whopping three sockets here to play with, and without changing a dang thing my +hit is 221. This is with, let's see, 7.5 slots not dedicated to +hit-- just resocketing could push that as high as 281, but after my respec that would place my crit% somewhere near 14% unbuffed.
To offset, even while I've been at 20% crit, I've been using the Darkmoon Card: Wrath to provide a fulcrum on which to balance my gear. As I sacrifice small pieces of crit for other stats, around a certain point of inflection, the card adequately compensates by increasing its relative worth. Once I move to a 1.4/1.5 speed OH (Latro's or a Quickblade, failing that), this point of inflection gets pushed further but I'm still going to want about 17% crit unbuffed-- this value, again, sinks as I start to get ZA/new Badge gear, which swaps +crit for +haste--
the cumulative effect of which, alongside the Darkmoon Card, is that the value of the trinket gets pushed further up because each cycle of build-up and eventual crit becomes accelerated-- the actual DPS doesn't change overly much in a raid setting, but the point of inflection gets pushed further left because my crits are normalizing to a greater rate as my OH speed increases. This stacks wonderfully, too, with Sword Spec.
I haven't crunched the actual numbers yet because the numbers for an unbounded cycle like the trinket are a bitch to do with any amount of accuracy, but the spec and gear set-up I'm aiming for should put its approximate value to more than +70 crit rating in a PvE setting.
Which is, of course, patently absurd.
Blizzard does me a favor here because all of the +haste gear I'll be collecting has all of its item points spent on raw stats, the +haste, and very favorable raw +AP. The amount of white damage, when coupled with Hemo and absolutely ridiculous Ruptures, and slightly-less ridiculous Preparation bursts, should work out well. I don't know. I'm not an elitistjerk.
I definitely feel like one, though!
a real new wave rogue uses words like 'point of inflection' and 'maths'
when I do calculations I don't use add-ons
I use a goddamn adding machine that prints onto a tiny spool of paper that I later rip off and throw out because who the fuck cares about these numbers but me
Undead have Cannibalism and WoTF, which are probably the best racials of any Horde race, but Blood Elves do get Mana Tap and an AoE silence that gives mana/energy back for each tap currently active. It's pretty effective in emergency situations where you need energy in a pinch, and the AoE silence is nice.
If you don't care about anything but racials, I'd say undead without a doubt. Cannibalism virtually eliminates all downtime, and I'm sure I don't have to explain the advantages of having WoTF. As far as appearance is concerned, I think Blood Elves are a lot cooler looking and so I rolled a BE Rogue, but I yearn for the UD racials.
I went through bandages at a rate leaving me zero cloth to sell until mobs were dropping runecloth, but I can't remember a moment where bandaging every few mobs was not enough
If you ever plan on Arena'ing with your Rogue, I'd suggest Blood Elf. It has made the difference between win and lose having that extra silence on hand and ready when that paladin starts casting yet another heal while KS and kick are on cooldown.
undead priest + undead rogue = no ever having to worry about fear again
I've played with the calculator regarding this, but I'm still sticking with Malice. The damage difference is so negligible that it really is more about preference than anything. I'm a crit whore, and I like to see big numbers, so I'm going to stick with my sexy Malice. I also don't like blowing a point in heightened senses in order to get to deadliness, especially when I would rather have that used as a second point in Expertise, making it a 5,32,24 build as opposed to 0,31,30
But like I said, the damage ranges are so damn close that it really will work well either way. Once I reach about 1650 unbuffed AP I will probably switch to Deadliness, by then the difference will start to show more.
Edit, Also, the deadliness buff is more of an advantage in a pvp setting against characters with 200 or more resilience. So the 5,32,24 build will be more damage almost all the time in a non-pvp setting against 0 resilience targets.
True, the silence has saved my life more than once, by I think when it comes to the 1-70 grind Cannibalism wins out. Of course it comes down to personal preference since they both have nice racials.
You sound like my brother he deleted his rogue for a feral druid
I have beat up some of his characters with my blood elf rogue and he still states fuck rogues
I am tempted to go hemo but I am going to try it on either my troll or blood elf and see how it goes before my night elf does it
Was top for most of VR (poison and blees immune so not sure how...) We can gank the adds with clos on al'ar and Solarian is just Aran with some mates (with priests that need interupting), nice to feel wanted
;-)
Oh and 2.3 changes for win, wonderfull and happypie
(<- Rogue)
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZheVo0VzxM0oZArc0MuRox
or
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0xZhjV00VzxZArc0MuRox
Basically, what do you think will give the most damage; a passive +5% crit or Adrenaline Rush every 5 minutes (and twice in a row every 10 with prep).
I think AR might end up more as long as it's used whenever it's up, but an extra 5% chance to double your damage does sound like a lot.
Personally I'd go with the AR, you will probably (overall in solo PvE) dish out more damage with the +crit, but Blade Flurry + Ar is almost too fun to pass up. And throw in a prep and you get to do it all the damn time.
I just wish BF would reset with Prep, damnit.
It dropped on Maelstrom (US).
OMFG, not even showing on wowhead yet, whispers are it is pickpocketed...
EDIT: no way can it be PP, that would give Rogues a massive income stream over other classes /facepalm
It's not like it's vital to 5 or 9 classes and only obtainable by Rogues.
Also; the number of alt rogues between 60 and 70 on my server is simply staggering, so amongst them it's not like "rogues" (as in, mains) would have an utter strangelhold on the market.
Someone tell me the stats please?