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Console Tournies: 20% Less Pain Than 2K4's!!!
Zig21
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Now that my body can physically support me, it's time for my review. And yes, this WILL be on the midterm.
First off, HUGE thanks to everyone involved. Gabe, Tycho, Khoo, PRD, the Meydenbauer staff, all the Enforcers, my own personal staff and friends who helped out, players who volunteered to run brackets, Ryan for running Halo-2, Eli who gave an awesome commentary for MKDD, and of course, everyone who came to the expo. This was one hell of a weekend to say the least.
As for the tournies, I'll post my thoughts about how each one went, ideas for improvements, and whether or not I'd like it back for next year.
Tekken 5
Despite roughly an hour's delay, things went fairly smoothly and the turnout was pretty solid. In fact, the most pressing impact this tourney had was the massive collection of D&D books Steven purchased with his tickets. That collection is now sitting in my bedroom awaiting shipment as he was physically unable to take it back home to LA.
Status for Next Year
To be honest I'm not that big a fan of Tekken 5, but hopefully Dark Resurrection will be out on console by next August. Either way I guess T5 is likely to return in one form or another.
Super Smash Brothers Melee
The largest 1v1 tourney by far. I'd forgotten just how long Smash can take (STOP TURTLING!!!!! JEEZ!!!!), and I'd have prefered making pools best of 1 game, instead of semi's. Ah well, at least I had plenty of staff to run things.
Status for Next Year
As part of my overall goal to re-work the tournies (see below), I'd REALLY like to make Smash 2v2 and loosen up the rules. Probably aim for a 128 team limit, maybe more if the schedule and venue allow for it.
Halo 2
Despite some mis-communication at the start, this tourney started on time and even finished early. I owe Ryan big-time. Plus the Master Chief statue was just too sexy. Otherwise, Halo is its own self-sustaining beast, so I don't see that much room for improvement.
Status for Next Year
Some attendees have expressed a desire for objective-based modes being used for the tourney, but frankly I just haven't seen enough demand. It's something I'd definitely support if we have time, but the Halo community is clearly competitive enough to where good ol' Team Slayer is more than sufficient in getting a big turnout.
Mario Kart: Double Dash
Now the best overall tourney two years running IMO, and best tourney of the weekend by far. Only real improvement I see myself implementing is a larger player cap if we have the time and resources.
Status for Next Year
This is back for sure, barring a sequal for GC. That's all there is to say really.
Mario Tennis
And I thought Smash took a long time. Jesus ****ing Christ this game takes FOREVER. Figures, it is Tennis. With that in mind, I say turn off Deuce but make it best of 3 matches or something similar. Either way, I don't want 30 minute games holding things up.
Status for Next Year
I'll admit, I'd rather this not come back, but that's based on a bad first impression as a tournament director. It's kinda my fault for not getting well-acquainted with the game in the first place. That being said, the turnout was kinda low, so at this point I'd say it's 50/50 whether or not this game makes the cut.
Guilty Gear XX #Reload
Out of 120 sign-ups, 32 players showed up. I'm almost certain MORE players showed up last year. Either way it was pretty pitiful. How much of this is due to the concert, I'm just not sure because I haven't had a chance to measure the game's popularity among attendees. But regardless, this is clearly the weakest title next to Splinter Cell and I really don't feel like running another #Reload tourney on X-Box.
Status for Next Year
While I don't plan on advocating for #Reload's return, I still want Guilty Gear to have some kind of presence at PAX. I love the game and still want a chance to promote it in some form. With that in mind, I think a great idea would be a special presentation of the new version coming out this fall in Japan: Guilty Gear XX Slash. Myself and the other tourney players could show off the new features and two new characters. This is assuming the US version isn't out yet (AND we have a tourney if it were), but based on past GG releases, I'd be surprised if Slash made it here before 2007.
Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory
I wasn't even present for this tourney, but based on what I saw around 10am, the turnout was pretty low. As for how things went, I have no idea.
Status for Next Year
Based on this year's turnout I'd rather have more time for other tournies than SC, but Khoo loves this game so I'll leave the decision to him.
Soul Calibur 2
Based on the Smash tourney I assumed this would also be huge. Both online AND day-of signups maxed out, just like Smash, and to my knowledge it didn't conflict with any other big events. Despite this, most pools averaged maybe 4~6 players. Still a very fun tourney, but the low turnout surprised me. SC2 is clearly popular, so was Sunday just too late for most people?
Status for Next Year
No more SC2, 'cause SC3 is coming out this year. But best of all....it's PS2 exclusive. No more musical chairs with converters. X-Box players should be alright as well. You GC players are still screwed, but that's how things turn out when you learn the game on a system that is the LEAST compatable with other crowds when it comes to fighting games. I'm not trying to be mean, that's just the truth. You can tell I've been through a lot of frustration and grief over dealing with all 3 versions of SC2.
Final Thoughts
Overall things definitely went better this year, but there's still a LOT I want to work on. Which brings me to the afore-mentioned goal for next year.
While I approach these tournies from a competitive standpoint, that's mostly to save time. The tournies themselves aren't very competitive for the most part (Halo 2 and arguably Mario Kart being the exceptions), nor were they ever meant to be. 99% of the players are very casual about the whole thing, so the amount of stress and anxiety I go through seems a bit too much compared to the end result.
This is not to say it hasn't been worth it, or that I'm not enjoying myself. Rather, I'd like to re-tool the tournies towards a more casual mind set. In addition to finding some means of streamlining paperwork, I hope to modify most of the formats. Halo 2 and Mario Kart are fine as-is, but I think Smash would be much more enjoyable with a 2v2 format and tweaked rules. Beat-the-Pro was an amazingly fun experience and gave me some ideas for the fighting games as well. Having more of a show-case event is good for promoting the tournament scene and casual players are more likely to participate. In addition, integrating the 3v3 format used in Japan for Tekken 5 and/or SC3 (not to mention the idea of a SC3 custom character-only tourney) seems like it'd be a lot of fun.
*phew* Done at last. Feel free to post your thoughts......unless you were mad SC2 wasn't on GC. :P
First off, HUGE thanks to everyone involved. Gabe, Tycho, Khoo, PRD, the Meydenbauer staff, all the Enforcers, my own personal staff and friends who helped out, players who volunteered to run brackets, Ryan for running Halo-2, Eli who gave an awesome commentary for MKDD, and of course, everyone who came to the expo. This was one hell of a weekend to say the least.
As for the tournies, I'll post my thoughts about how each one went, ideas for improvements, and whether or not I'd like it back for next year.
Tekken 5
Despite roughly an hour's delay, things went fairly smoothly and the turnout was pretty solid. In fact, the most pressing impact this tourney had was the massive collection of D&D books Steven purchased with his tickets. That collection is now sitting in my bedroom awaiting shipment as he was physically unable to take it back home to LA.
Status for Next Year
To be honest I'm not that big a fan of Tekken 5, but hopefully Dark Resurrection will be out on console by next August. Either way I guess T5 is likely to return in one form or another.
Super Smash Brothers Melee
The largest 1v1 tourney by far. I'd forgotten just how long Smash can take (STOP TURTLING!!!!! JEEZ!!!!), and I'd have prefered making pools best of 1 game, instead of semi's. Ah well, at least I had plenty of staff to run things.
Status for Next Year
As part of my overall goal to re-work the tournies (see below), I'd REALLY like to make Smash 2v2 and loosen up the rules. Probably aim for a 128 team limit, maybe more if the schedule and venue allow for it.
Halo 2
Despite some mis-communication at the start, this tourney started on time and even finished early. I owe Ryan big-time. Plus the Master Chief statue was just too sexy. Otherwise, Halo is its own self-sustaining beast, so I don't see that much room for improvement.
Status for Next Year
Some attendees have expressed a desire for objective-based modes being used for the tourney, but frankly I just haven't seen enough demand. It's something I'd definitely support if we have time, but the Halo community is clearly competitive enough to where good ol' Team Slayer is more than sufficient in getting a big turnout.
Mario Kart: Double Dash
Now the best overall tourney two years running IMO, and best tourney of the weekend by far. Only real improvement I see myself implementing is a larger player cap if we have the time and resources.
Status for Next Year
This is back for sure, barring a sequal for GC. That's all there is to say really.
Mario Tennis
And I thought Smash took a long time. Jesus ****ing Christ this game takes FOREVER. Figures, it is Tennis. With that in mind, I say turn off Deuce but make it best of 3 matches or something similar. Either way, I don't want 30 minute games holding things up.
Status for Next Year
I'll admit, I'd rather this not come back, but that's based on a bad first impression as a tournament director. It's kinda my fault for not getting well-acquainted with the game in the first place. That being said, the turnout was kinda low, so at this point I'd say it's 50/50 whether or not this game makes the cut.
Guilty Gear XX #Reload
Out of 120 sign-ups, 32 players showed up. I'm almost certain MORE players showed up last year. Either way it was pretty pitiful. How much of this is due to the concert, I'm just not sure because I haven't had a chance to measure the game's popularity among attendees. But regardless, this is clearly the weakest title next to Splinter Cell and I really don't feel like running another #Reload tourney on X-Box.
Status for Next Year
While I don't plan on advocating for #Reload's return, I still want Guilty Gear to have some kind of presence at PAX. I love the game and still want a chance to promote it in some form. With that in mind, I think a great idea would be a special presentation of the new version coming out this fall in Japan: Guilty Gear XX Slash. Myself and the other tourney players could show off the new features and two new characters. This is assuming the US version isn't out yet (AND we have a tourney if it were), but based on past GG releases, I'd be surprised if Slash made it here before 2007.
Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory
I wasn't even present for this tourney, but based on what I saw around 10am, the turnout was pretty low. As for how things went, I have no idea.
Status for Next Year
Based on this year's turnout I'd rather have more time for other tournies than SC, but Khoo loves this game so I'll leave the decision to him.
Soul Calibur 2
Based on the Smash tourney I assumed this would also be huge. Both online AND day-of signups maxed out, just like Smash, and to my knowledge it didn't conflict with any other big events. Despite this, most pools averaged maybe 4~6 players. Still a very fun tourney, but the low turnout surprised me. SC2 is clearly popular, so was Sunday just too late for most people?
Status for Next Year
No more SC2, 'cause SC3 is coming out this year. But best of all....it's PS2 exclusive. No more musical chairs with converters. X-Box players should be alright as well. You GC players are still screwed, but that's how things turn out when you learn the game on a system that is the LEAST compatable with other crowds when it comes to fighting games. I'm not trying to be mean, that's just the truth. You can tell I've been through a lot of frustration and grief over dealing with all 3 versions of SC2.
Final Thoughts
Overall things definitely went better this year, but there's still a LOT I want to work on. Which brings me to the afore-mentioned goal for next year.
While I approach these tournies from a competitive standpoint, that's mostly to save time. The tournies themselves aren't very competitive for the most part (Halo 2 and arguably Mario Kart being the exceptions), nor were they ever meant to be. 99% of the players are very casual about the whole thing, so the amount of stress and anxiety I go through seems a bit too much compared to the end result.
This is not to say it hasn't been worth it, or that I'm not enjoying myself. Rather, I'd like to re-tool the tournies towards a more casual mind set. In addition to finding some means of streamlining paperwork, I hope to modify most of the formats. Halo 2 and Mario Kart are fine as-is, but I think Smash would be much more enjoyable with a 2v2 format and tweaked rules. Beat-the-Pro was an amazingly fun experience and gave me some ideas for the fighting games as well. Having more of a show-case event is good for promoting the tournament scene and casual players are more likely to participate. In addition, integrating the 3v3 format used in Japan for Tekken 5 and/or SC3 (not to mention the idea of a SC3 custom character-only tourney) seems like it'd be a lot of fun.
*phew* Done at last. Feel free to post your thoughts......unless you were mad SC2 wasn't on GC. :P
Born to Duck
Zig21 on
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My favorite tournament was Mario Kart, though I might be biased since I won 2nd. I thought the play-by-play was a great touch, and the overall group of people who showed up were awesome.
As for Smash, I'd also like to see this return, and I agree the rules should be loosened a tad.
I'd really like to see objective based games in Halo 2, though I can understand that might interfere with the time constraints. But if it can be done, I think it'd be a pretty cool expeirence.
I'm impartial towards Mario Tennis, but I'd rather see it replaced with Mario Strikers (soccer) or something next year. The game garnered a huge response in the exhibition hall.
Anyways, great job with the tournys!
What would be awesome is if they had lan play on it and allowed 4v4...
Or online. Despite that, I was really impressed with how well they handled player switching; definitely some of the best I've seen in a soccer game.
I'll be your official "Breathe and Delegate" mantra-er.
Then again, this could just be me thinking this since, we got 4th in the first round and didnt move on... Damn that fake box that nailed us on the head... Good to hear itll be back next year though, and I love that it ran multiple races per round instead of just one.
Quite a lot of good material that could have been on the DVD. Mario Kart finals were damn exciting.
I totally agree. The problem with the one race setup of last year was that one random item or bad driver/cart combo could totally screw you over. Having more races reduced the random factor significantly since good players will generally race good races, and four races is enough to establish that trend.
The final round being 8 races was brilliant too, though I'd love it if next year all 16 courses could be raced. There's even an option for it in the LAN menu, so the game will cycle through all 16 before repeating a course.
Exactly, like one person was in a game with us last year on Baby Park, and everyone knows Baby Park is pretty much luck on the items moreso then any other race. They got knocked out that round even though they are a pretty good driver, as they got 3rd place overall this year. I bet they wouldve placed last year if they hadnt got stuck on Baby Park one round.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd definitley buy a DVD for some of those tournaments, especially Mario Kart (though I may be biased since I won 2nd place).
The guy doing the play-by-play really added to the atmosphere as well. It'd be wicked if PAX could have that level of energy for every tournament.
-robert
No joke. As a con dedicated to gaming, there should be more hype around the finals. Projectors, seatting, camera crews etc. The intensity of the omegathon could be there for every final of every tourney. I don't want to detract from omegathon, its its own thing, but the console tourneys are something to get worked up about!
I propose the following:
Have every tournament go as planned until the finals. When the finals would normally take place, end the tournament.
Then, on Sunday, have the final round of every tournament in the theatre, in order, all leading up to the final round of the Omegathon.
Dude... it would be insane.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
That would be fucking epic, and making filming said finals much easier as well. Well, except Double Dash, which would need 4 projectors for every screen to be viewable in the theatre... But Im sure it could be done.
Second, I heartily agree with the suggestion that there should be more publicity around the tournaments, at the very least broadcasting the finals and making the results/brackets available online. But like duderdude2 I'm also biased since my friend and I won't the Splinter Cell tournament.
Re: the Splinter Cell tournament, yeah, it's not as popular of a game, presumably due to it's learning curve, but it also has had the disadvantage of being first thing Sunday morning both years. Mornings always suck, and it sounds like PAX was winding down a bit by Sunday (I was only there Sunday). That being said, the tournament is a great opportunity to get people excited in what, in my opinion, is the most fun/intense/exciting adversarial multiplayer game out there.
The people I talked to who saw the matches thought watching them was really exciting - including people who have seen many, many Halo/Halo 2/CS/you name it matches. I could blather on for a while on what makes it so exciting (trust me), but I'll spare you. Suffice to say, I think it would be really worthwhile to broadcast the matches somehow.
Unfortunately, it's more difficult to do this with SCCT than the other games because:
1. You've got 4 screens to broadcast
2. You need to broadcast it in such a way that the participants can't screen cheat (that kills the game)
3. You'll still probably miss out on team communication, which is a huge part of SCCT.
Anyway, I did sort of a play-by-play writeup of my experiences in the tournament and posted it at:
http://spaces.msn.com/members/PUN1SHER
In case anyone is interested.
I love this idea. Combined with an announcer, it could be the coolest thing ever.
Or they could also cycle through the four video feeds, like a "highlight" reel.
We should give this more thought.
Obviously it won't be easy, but it'd have a wicked awesome payout.
I think this approach would simply KILL at PAX. It's a blast and really brings up the energy and the stakes. Plus, it's just good TV.
[edited to remove unintended 'sitewhoring', sorry]
Assuming we have a new venue next year (which we will according to the program; have yet to discuss this with Khoo), I'll determine what can be done to get more people interested.
Was gonna ask but.
Not a bad Xiouauau...Xiouauo....
that dumb panda-loving bitch's name
I thought maybe it was you, then.
Well.
...
i touched myself
I'm just wondering because I remember in '04, the console tournies were enough to make any lesser man go insane. I planned on bringing donuts this year as a sort of "thank you" gift. But when I reached Tim Horton's, I thought to myself, maybe Zig doesn't like donuts. Or maybe he wouldn't take donuts from a stranger. So I'm sorry, but I didn't. Maybe next year, if you want.
Wireless videostream? i mean, come on people were ubergeeks. We should have something viable for these situations. Heck, get speak easy to do the hard work for you